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Capitalism: The real cure all

southpaw23 said:
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Right, the Washington Post.


You could instead actually look at the charts of tax brackets over the last 30 years rather then get your facts for an opinion piece form the Washington Post.

Boy, that George Bush really hated the middle class.

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Dwight Schrute said:
Once again, you're wrong. People such as Ron Paul and many libertarian groups have been stating the same thing since 2004...as well as many Republicans who were not fans of the "compassionate conservative".

Just because you don't read about it or see it on huffington post doensn't mean it didn't exist.
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Ron Paul strikes a populist tone, however, the likelihood of first electing a Libertarian and then adopting any of those policies/philosophies, in what is essentially a two party system, is not grounded in reality, no matter how much you favor those positions.
 
southpaw23 said:
Ron Paul strikes a populist tone, however, the likelihood of first electing a Libertarian and then adopting any of those policies/philosophies, in what is essentially a two party system, is not grounded in reality, no matter how much you favor those positions.
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It wasn't a populist tone in 2004, or 2006, or in 2008.

If what you said was true, Rand Paul wouldn't have been elected...or Joe Miller...or Scott Brown....or Chris Christie...and so on....

Mike Castle would be cruising.....
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Right, the Washington Post.


You could instead actually look at the charts of tax brackets over the last 30 years rather then get your facts for an opinion piece form the Washington Post.

Boy, that George Bush really hated the middle class.

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That article was entirely relevant as it spoke to the eventual impact of the Bush Tax cuts on the "current" state of our economy.

You will for obvious reasons choose to interpret it differently or dismiss the source, however, the author is an economist and independent contributor for other top flight news publications. The sources I provided you all reaffirm my contentions.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
It wasn't a populist tone in 2004, or 2006, or in 2008.

If what you said was true, Rand Paul wouldn't have been elected...or Joe Miller...or Scott Brown....or Chris Christie...and so on....

Mike Castle would be cruising.....
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You're acting as if this hasn't occurred in the past. The same thing happened in previous elections, most recently when the dems took over. It's the nature of the game, this isn't something new.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
It wasn't a populist tone in 2004, or 2006, or in 2008.

If what you said was true, Rand Paul wouldn't have been elected...or Joe Miller...or Scott Brown....or Chris Christie...and so on....

Mike Castle would be cruising.....
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Running a local campaign for either the house or the senate, is a completely different animal, than running a national level campaign.
 
southpaw23 said:
Running a local campaign for either the house or the senate, is a completely different animal, than running a national level campaign.
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Umm....Rand Paul, Mike Castle, Joe Miler, Marco Rubio, etc...are Senate races...you know, the people who actually create legislation?
 
southpaw23 said:
You're acting as if this hasn't occurred in the past. The same thing happened in previous elections, most recently when the dems took over. It's the nature of the game, this isn't something new.
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Who said it hasn't occurred before? What's your point?
 
southpaw23 said:
That article was entirely relevant as it spoke to the eventual impact of the Bush Tax cuts on the "current" state of our economy.

You will for obvious reasons choose to interpret it differently or dismiss the source, however, the author is an economist and independent contributor for other top flight news publications. The sources I provided you all reaffirm my contentions.
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You're sources are newspapers that create and report stories for one reason..to sell more newspapers.

Instead of actually looking at the actual charts and actual data you cite a newspaper source.

Stop listening to the newspaper and do your own research because its obvious you show a severe misunderstanding of what you are talking about.

Look at the charts of tax revenue vs. government spending and you will see the problem.....its not some stupid tax cut that fuels political points rather than actual solutions.
 
southpaw23 said:
My point is bigfoot has a likelier chance of winning a presidential election than a Libertarian.
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And who said a libertarian would win the Presidency? Who would want that since the position is nothing but a puppet position to begin with and has very little influence on actual monetary policy.
 
southpaw23 said:
Hmmm yes I'm aware and who signs off on the final version of legislation?
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A figurehead who goes with the polls. I'm sure Bill Clinton fully agreed with all the bills created by a Republican Congress from 94-00.

Wanna guess who can overrride a veto? Wanna guess who can defund legislation?
 
Dwight Schrute said:
You're sources are newspapers that create and report stories for one reason..to sell more newspapers.

Instead of actually looking at the actual charts and actual data you cite a newspaper source.

Stop listening to the newspaper and do your own research because its obvious you show a severe misunderstanding of what you are talking about.

Look at the charts of tax revenue vs. government spending and you will see the problem.....its not some stupid tax cut that fuels political points rather than actual solutions.
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I sourced actual economists, who do this for a living. You can again misinterpret my sources and relegate them down to being one of a competency issue, and conversely I could argue that your graph belies the point I was making about the Bush Tax cuts.

Dwight the only thing I can surmise from your comments, is that you offer a clear narrative, which you choose not to stray to far from, hence the term ideologue. I understand how this issue works and how it plays into one's own political philosophy, despite your strongly worded objections to the contrary.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
And who said a libertarian would win the Presidency? Who would want that since the position is nothing but a puppet position to begin with and has very little influence on actual monetary policy.
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That we can agree on. However in order to get things done, it's a numbers game, and the repubs don't yet have the numbers to change anything, until then moot point.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
You're sources are newspapers that create and report stories for one reason..to sell more newspapers.

Instead of actually looking at the actual charts and actual data you cite a newspaper source.

Stop listening to the newspaper and do your own research because its obvious you show a severe misunderstanding of what you are talking about.

Look at the charts of tax revenue vs. government spending and you will see the problem.....its not some stupid tax cut that fuels political points rather than actual solutions.
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I listen to those who are educated/experts in their respected field, many of whom write columns for top flight news publications, once again your interpretations are overly simplistic. You sourced one graph off which to base your arguments. I can provide many other sources including the Wall Street Journal and recent a recent study conducted by Moody’s Analytics, a much more detailed and accurate analysis than your graph.

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Refer to John Boehner's recent comments:

Boehner concedes only three percent of small businesses affected by extending tax cuts

As you know, John Boehner made big news yesterday on CBS when he seemed to allow that he would support it if Dems held a vote on whether to extend just the tax cuts of those who make less than $250,000.

And that's certainly interesting. But there's another key claim Boehner made that also deserves some attention: He seemed to allow that the income of only three percent of small business people would be impacted if the Bush tax cuts for the rich expire.

I hear Dems are getting ready to jump on this part of Boehner's interview. They're going to argue that it undercuts the claim of many Republicans that extending the tax cuts for the rich would have an adverse impact on many small businesses, creating widespread uncertainty for them.

In the exchange, Bob Schieffer of CBS asked Boehner to respond to a recent report by the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation finding the three percent figure. And then...

BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you quarrel with that figure? Is that a right figure or a wrong figure?

BOEHNER: Well, it may be three percent, but it's half of small business income. Because, obviously, the top three percent have half of the gross income for those companies that we would term small businesses. And this is why you don't want to punish these people at a time when you have a weak economy.
 
southpaw23 said:
I sourced actual economists, who do this for a living. You can again misinterpret my sources and relegate them down to being one of a competency issue, and conversely I could argue that your graph belies the point I was making about the Bush Tax cuts.
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They write opinion for a living. They are paid by think tanks who generally slant to one side or another. Paul Krugman is a Nobel Prize winner but are you going to sit there and tell me his economic philosophy isn't based on his political philosophy?

Then make the point. His tax cuts helped every bracket. Denying that is just plain ridiculous.

Dwight the only thing I can surmise from your comments, is that you offer a clear narrative, which you choose not to stray to far from, hence the term ideologue. I understand how this issue works and how it plays into one's own political philosophy, despite your strongly worded objections to the contrary.
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Owning and running a business has you based in reality, not theory. Business's won't expand when they know federal mandates are coming down the road that clearly increases their overhead. Its commone sense. Open up and run a business then come talk to me about ideology.
 
southpaw23 said:
That we can agree on. However in order to get things done, it's a numbers game, and the repubs don't yet have the numbers to change anything, until then moot point.
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Public sentiment can go a long way. There is a reason the Democrats aren't pushing through more legislation....the toll of health care was a high one.

Its also a perception game.

Having them do nothing is a gain IMO. They've done more damage than good.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
They write opinion for a living. They are paid by think tanks who generally slant to one side or another.

Then make the point. His tax cuts helped every bracket. Denying that is just plain ridiculous.



Owning and running a business has you based in reality, not theory. Business's won't expand when they know federal mandates are coming down the road that clearly increases their overhead. Its commone sense. Open up and run a business then come talk to me about ideology.
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I understand as I own and operate my own RIA. It's a small investment firm based out of FL. It's grown quite steadily from a one man shop, to now employing over 15 people, in a matter of two years, this while all in my 20's. You have a habit of making a lot of general/broadly based assumptions. I don't consider myself poor or in need of entitlements, consequently I don't mind paying higher taxes, if it garners results.

I get peoples' concerns, however, I choose to focus on the big picture. This is all a crap shoot, as no one really knows if their economic plan will succeed in the end. You look to certain models to gauge successful outcomes, in the end it's all a crap shoot. I can also speak to personal experiences, of having watched both my parents work hard and educate themselves, working for the same company for over 30 years, and due to either mismanagement, misappropriation or a combination of both, now find themselves both without jobs and health care benefits.
 
southpaw23 said:
I listen to those who are educated/experts in their respected field, many of whom write columns for top flight news publications, once again your interpretations are overly simplistic. You sourced one graph off which to base your arguments. I can provide many other sources including the Wall Street Journal and recent a recent study conducted by Moody’s Analytics, a much more detailed and accurate analysis than your graph.

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Anyone can find a point of view that agrees with them and make a case. For everyon you post I can counter it. Big Whoop. I, on the other hand, live it. I run 3 business's with a labor force. I live in the foreclosure capital of America. I can tell you first hand what effects the government can have on overhead. Can you? Do you handle your own health care and labor force? Do you plan for increase overhead because of government mandates? Do you invest your own money in your own business? Don't give me the bull**** opinion of a journalist who couldn't run his way out of paper bag as proof. Ask the person who owns the company you work for. Ask him how much floating credit he can get these days form the supposed banks who are lending. Ask them what they are going to do when the fed demands receipts of health care coverage for their employees.


I know for a fact that I'm NOT hiring if my overhead is increased by a health care mandate. I know for a fact its harder to reinvest into my business. I know for a fact its harder to grow my business. I know these things as facts, not some bull**** ideology.




Refer to John Boehner's recent comments:

Boehner concedes only three percent of small businesses affected by extending tax cuts

As you know, John Boehner made big news yesterday on CBS when he seemed to allow that he would support it if Dems held a vote on whether to extend just the tax cuts of those who make less than $250,000.

And that's certainly interesting. But there's another key claim Boehner made that also deserves some attention: He seemed to allow that the income of only three percent of small business people would be impacted if the Bush tax cuts for the rich expire.

I hear Dems are getting ready to jump on this part of Boehner's interview. They're going to argue that it undercuts the claim of many Republicans that extending the tax cuts for the rich would have an adverse impact on many small businesses, creating widespread uncertainty for them.

In the exchange, Bob Schieffer of CBS asked Boehner to respond to a recent report by the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation finding the three percent figure. And then...

BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you quarrel with that figure? Is that a right figure or a wrong figure?

BOEHNER: Well, it may be three percent, but it's half of small business income. Because, obviously, the top three percent have half of the gross income for those companies that we would term small businesses. And this is why you don't want to punish these people at a time when you have a weak economy.
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Boehner and Schiefer are idiots. They dance around political talking points like you do. And the notion that a tax cut that is existing law is increasing the deficit just shows you the complete arrogance of the federal government as if they OWNED the money.

Raise taxes during a recession and see what happens. I guarantee you unemployment will go over 10% and when it does I will come back and say "i told you so".
 
southpaw23 said:
I understand as I own and operate my own RIA. It's a small investment firm based out of FL. It's grown quite steadily from a one man shop, to now employing over 15 people, in a matter of two years, this all in 20's.

I get people's concerns, however, I choose to focus on the big picture. This is all a crap shoot, as no one really knows if their economic plans will succeed in the end. You look to certain models to gauge successful outcomes, in the end it's all a crap shoot. I can also speak to personal experiences, of having watched both my parents work hard and educate themselves, working for the same company for over 30 years, and due to either mismanagement, misappropriation or a combination of both, now find themselves both without jobs and health care benefits.
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And this is the problem. Now enter emotional politicking. The standing up of failed companies with the to big to fail idea has only prolonged the pain, making it harder for people like your parents to get a job. The thing with an economic plan is that is exactly got us in the position we are in, making policy after policy after policy to move people from self sufficient to relying on the government for their welfare. The government is not responsible for joe schmoe and his dog, but the few responsibilities are termed in the constitution which has been stretched so far. Take a read, you won't find social security or universal health care as a responsibility of the government.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Anyone can find a point of view that agrees with them and make a case. For everyon you post I can counter it. Big Whoop. I, on the other hand, live it. I run 3 business's with a labor force. I live in the foreclosure capital of America. I can tell you first hand what effects the government can have on overhead. Can you? Do you handle your own health care and labor force? Do you plan for increase overhead because of government mandates? Do you invest your own money in your own business? Don't give me the bull**** opinion of a journalist who couldn't run his way out of paper bag as proof. Ask the person who owns the company you work for. Ask him how much floating credit he can get these days form the supposed banks who are lending. Ask them what they are going to do when the fed demands receipts of health care coverage for their employees.


I know for a fact that I'm NOT hiring if my overhead is increased by a health care mandate. I know for a fact its harder to reinvest into my business. I know for a fact its harder to grow my business. I know these things as facts, not some bull**** ideology.







Boehner and Schiefer are idiots. They dance around political talking points like you do. And the notion that a tax cut that is existing law is increasing the deficit just shows you the complete arrogance of the federal government as if they OWNED the money.

Raise taxes during a recession and see what happens. I guarantee you unemployment will go over 10% and when it does I will come back and say "i told you so".
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Dwight relax no need to take a hostile approach, you're opinion won't change mine, nor will mine change yours.
 
southpaw23 said:
I understand as I own and operate my own RIA. It's a small investment firm based out of FL. It's grown quite steadily from a one man shop, to now employing over 15 people, in a matter of two years, this while all in my 20's. You have a habit of making a lot of general/broadly based assumptions. I don't consider myself poor or in need of entitlements, consequently I don't mind paying higher taxes, if it garners results.

I get peoples' concerns, however, I choose to focus on the big picture. This is all a crap shoot, as no one really knows if their economic plan will succeed in the end. You look to certain models to gauge successful outcomes, in the end it's all a crap shoot. I can also speak to personal experiences, of having watched both my parents work hard and educate themselves, working for the same company for over 30 years, and due to either mismanagement, misappropriation or a combination of both, now find themselves both without jobs and health care benefits.
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Oh now you own one...before you worked for one but now you are the owner? Boy isn't that convenient. Generalities? Weren't you the one saying a person was a Republican if they didn't believe in this current administration's economic policies? I think the one that made the assumption is you.
 
southpaw23 said:
Dwight relax no need to take a hostile approach, you're opinion won't change mine, nor will mine change yours.
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Hostile? Nope..just being truthful. Sometimes the truth hurts though.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Oh now you own one...before you worked for one but now you are the owner? Boy isn't that convenient. Generalities? Weren't you the one saying a person was a Republican if they didn't believe in this current administration's economic policies? I think the one that made the assumption is you.
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Yes many IAR's own and operate their own businesses, it's quite common in my field. Whether or not you choose to believe that is immaterial as I'm not here to prove anything to you, as when you say you run 3 companies, I can simply turn around and ask you if being a forum moderator now constitutes having "business" experience.
 
southpaw23 said:
Yes many IAR's own and operate their own businesses, it's quite common in my field. Whether or not you choose to believe that is immaterial as I'm not here to prove anything to you, as when you say you run 3 companies, I can simply turn around and ask you if being a forum moderator now constitutes having "business" experience.
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Wow... just... wow. He is the forum owner, and by the sponsor area, you can tell he has a descent business model.
 
DAdams91982 said:
Wow... just... wow. He is the forum owner, and by the sponsor area, you can tell he has a descent business model.
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It's okay for a forum moderator to take an passive aggressive approach towards a member, but question the forum moderator and it illicits "Wow...just wow". Double standard much?
 
southpaw23 said:
Yes many IAR's own and operate their own businesses, it's quite common in my field. Whether or not you choose to believe that is immaterial as I'm not here to prove anything to you, as when you say you run 3 companies, I can simply turn around and ask you if being a forum moderator now constitutes having "business" experience.
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Yes...a forum moderator that owns the forum and has a relationship with over 35 companies.


And that's just one of my business and it isn't even the one that requires a labor force. If it did, I'd be in trouble.


Open mouth..take foot out.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Yes...a forum moderator that owns the forum and has a relationship with over 35 companies.


And that's just one of my business and it isn't even the one that requires a labor force. If it did, I'd be in trouble.


Open mouth..take foot out.
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Dwight I'm quite happy for you, no need to list your resume. Many members who come here, own and operate their own business, many with advanced degrees. Try not to make to many broad assumptions.
 
southpaw23 said:
Dwight nothing hurtful on my side, in fact I find you to be comedic in many ways.
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Oh I could have some fun if that's where you want to go. I could have loads of fun.
 
southpaw23 said:
It's okay for a forum moderator to take an passive aggressive approach towards a member, but question the forum moderator and it illicits "Wow...just wow". Double standard much?
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You have hippocracy spilling all over. You took a jab at his experience by saying he was a forum moderator, yet he is the forum owner that makes quite a bit of income. You spouted off without knowing anything, then get upset when corrected?

Tons of people here have butted heads with him and other moderators with no issue, including myself.
 
DAdams91982 said:
You have hippocracy spilling all over. You took a jab at his experience by saying he was a forum moderator, yet he is the forum owner that makes quite a bit of income. You spouted off without knowing anything, then get upset when corrected?

Tons of people here have butted heads with him and other moderators with no issue, including myself.
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Yeah but I'm comical :D
 
DAdams91982 said:
You have hippocracy spilling all over. You took a jab at his experience by saying he was a forum moderator, yet he is the forum owner that makes quite a bit of income. You spouted off without knowing anything, then get upset when corrected?

Tons of people here have butted heads with him and other moderators with no issue, including myself.
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I'm not sure how you can assign emotions to written text, but in any event, I didn't curse with respect to any of my comments, but Dwight did, so if you're going to play Dr.Phil make sure you up to the challenge of deciphering intent through written text. Dwight questioned whether or not I own my own company, as it's convenient for him to do so, in light of the fact that he's a "forum moderator".
 
Actually it was convenient because you said you worked for a company, not owned it.

And he probably assumed like you assumed everyone countering you was a Republican. He was pretty accurate. That's my assumption. You weren't. That's my other assumption.
 
southpaw23 said:
Yes but nothing quite like being a "forum moderator"...LIVING THE DREAM THERE DWIGHT. So what big decision did you make today? Deciding whether or not to add more emoticons?
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I guess this is the attempt to annoy me or push the envelope... Oh how can I resist..he's calling me a forum moderator.... :lol:

I just hope you don't get demoted to worker again... :lol:
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Actually it was convenient because you said you worked for a company, not owned it.

And he probably assumed like you assumed everyone countering you was a Republican. He was pretty accurate. That's my assumption. You weren't. That's my other assumption.
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My company is under the umbrella of an investment firm. When their reps become licensed, many of us go out and solicit our own clients, and form our own RIA's, in fact it's common practice, but since you're not an expert in all things "forum", you find it more convenient to make broad based assumptions.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
I guess this is the attempt to annoy me or push the envelope... Oh how can I resist..he's calling me a forum moderator.... :lol:

I just hope you don't get demoted to worker again... :lol:
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It's just banter, and if I do get demoted Dwight perhaps I can get a job with you...designing emoticons? I'm sure all the kids grow up dreaming of earning the coveted title of "The Forum Moderator". I certainly can't compete with your achievements Dwight.
 
I bolded, underlined and indented!!! I forumed moderated! :D
 
southpaw23 said:
My company is under the umbrella of an investment firm. When their reps become licensed, many of us go out and solicit our own clients, and form our own RIA's, in fact it's common practice, but since you're not an expert in all things "forum", you find it more convenient to make broad based assumptions.
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Of course you did. We believe you. We really do!
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Of course you did. We believe you. We really do!
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I understand Dwight being a "Forum Moderator" has led you to become cynical, I completely understand. As a "business" owner I can only imagine the importance of Monday meetings, where you scribble designs on the wall for new emoticon designs.
 
Its good to be the king!
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Its good to be the king!
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Sara Palin said the exact same thing during the campaign, and yes please read into that. In any event this was fun Dwight, I'm off to the gym where I'll spread news of the new American dream, achieving the coveted title of forum moderator. Keep up the good work!
 
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