Cant decide - MP

[Toff]

Love MP products, their creatine, CLA and Assault is great, however now with the Arnold line, I cant decide on which fat burner of theirs to use.

MP Shred matrix
or
Arnold Iron Cuts.

One appears to be just a fat burner, appetite suppressant and thermo whereas the other is an estrogen reducing, test booster and fatb urner in one.

Im tempted by Iron cuts but which is better - my training wil lstay they same, 5 sets, heart pounding intensity 4 times a week - and diet is clean all week, fasting 16+ hours daily, with a cheat day. I want to lose the fat on my abs.

Those with experience of both, please shout up. Im not scouting for alternatives.

Cheers!

 

[tyrub42]

Both lines seem unimpressive to me and those products have way too many ingredients hidden in prop blends. I would opt for a product by a less-flashy company that spends less on advertising and more on research and development. PES has several fat burners that people generally like/love (Alphamine, Norcodrene, Alpha T-2). Those should all be in the same price range and I would put my money on any of those being more effective. I don't use fat burners, but people on this board can steer you in the right direction and there are lots of experienced members on here. Good luck!

 

[Toff]

googling the ingredients, Arnold Iron Cuts is favourable as its aimed to increase mass along side burning fat around the belly, organs and has some nice heart helping ingredients.

Shred seems to be a purely fatloss/stim/diuretic which will lose more water weight - ideal for a creatine gap. Both get good reviews.

I think the answer is to do both, Cuts first with my creatine, and Shred second when im off creatine and to lose water weight

Assault is great, im changing up for Pump this month.

 

[warbird01]

googling the ingredients, Arnold Iron Cuts is favourable as its aimed to increase mass along side burning fat around the belly, organs and has some nice heart helping ingredients. Shred seems to be a purely fatloss/stim/diuretic which will lose more water weight - ideal for a creatine gap. Both get good reviews. I think the answer is to do both, Cuts first with my creatine, and Shred second when im off creatine and to lose water weight Assault is great, im changing up for Pump this month.

Wat

 

[john.patterson]

Both lines seem unimpressive to me and those products have way too many ingredients hidden in prop blends. I would opt for a product by a less-flashy company that spends less on advertising and more on research and development. PES has several fat burners that people generally like/love (Alphamine, Norcodrene, Alpha T-2). Those should all be in the same price range and I would put my money on any of those being more effective. I don't use fat burners, but people on this board can steer you in the right direction and there are lots of experienced members on here. Good luck!

Listen to this post. There are many better products out there other than MP products. I'm not bashing MP, but there are many other better products out there for the same price that contain better ingredient profiles with more science based, well studied ingredients; especially when it comes to fat burning products.

Read up on the EC stack. And read up on studied fat loss supplements (yohimbine, caffeine, etc.) and make your own fat burner with bulk supplies. You'll save money and have much better results.

 

[Jiigzz]

Iron Cuts looks pretty average IMO and shred matrix doesnt appeal to me either. Why not go for either SNS Yohimbine HCL + Caffeine? Or Alphamine?

 

[HIT4ME]

I don't know. Both those products look great if you want a laundry list of herbs and chemicals. If I look hard, I can kind of see that they may have SOME effect, but I think it will be minimal. Usually when something tries to be everything all at once, it has to be underdosed and becomes worthless at everything.

If it were me, I'd stick with products that have fewer ingredients, more well studied ingredients, more potent doses of these well studied ingredients, and more focus on what they try to do.

I think the stuff that always gets the shout-outs, and for good reason, are as follows:

PES fat burners (I have used and liked alphamine, I am about to try norcodrene)
IForce Dexaprine
Forskolin
Level II
Yohimbine (I personally hate yohimbine - I use it, but I'm careful with it)

I would add ANS Diablo to this list - but I'm about to try it and it isn't something that is regularly mentioned and well regarded on here, but I think it looks interesting.

Your products also appear to have ingredients that make them look like they are trying to do what the above do better, and a GDA - which I would go with Glycophase or Slinsane or something along those lines as a dedicated GDA if I was interested in that.

Your products are also only good for 15-20 days, so you will need 2 bottles for a full month. For $60 you could buy 2-3 of the above products for a month if you look around...

 

[The Solution]

Both lines seem unimpressive to me and those products have way too many ingredients hidden in prop blends. I would opt for a product by a less-flashy company that spends less on advertising and more on research and development. PES has several fat burners that people generally like/love (Alphamine, Norcodrene, Alpha T-2). Those should all be in the same price range and I would put my money on any of those being more effective. I don't use fat burners, but people on this board can steer you in the right direction and there are lots of experienced members on here. Good luck!

Agree
i would look into Alphamine/T2 and also some forskolin-50 if i were to get a fatloss stack.

 

[Toff]

Yohimbine made me dizzy, dexaprine made me feel i was gonna die, alphamine was a waste of time, any further examples??

Eca stack just made me hyper burnt me out but no loss,
tt-33 gave me muscle loss...still the fat remains.

Diet and training, check. Reviews on the above seem to suggest a new generation of fat loss after users have 'tried them all'.

Google poliquin l-cartinine and thermodiamine alone good stuff. Add green tea and caffeine, plus ant estrogen and test boost in the same pack for 20 quid, im trying out iron cuts.

 

[tyrub42]

Yohimbine made me dizzy, dexaprine made me feel i was gonna die, alphamine was a waste of time, any further examples??

Eca stack just made me hyper burnt me out but no loss,
tt-33 gave me muscle loss...still the fat remains.

Diet and training, check. Reviews on the above seem to suggest a new generation of fat loss after users have 'tried them all'.

Google poliquin l-cartinine and thermodiamine alone good stuff. Add green tea and caffeine, plus ant estrogen and test boost in the same pack for 20 quid, im trying out iron cuts.

I see several other examples in my post and others' posts as well, but it seems you are pretty set on trying Iron Cuts, so try it and enjoy. I hope it works well for you.

 

[Toff]

Yeah, im learning this is a PES forum...the MP section is no longer active.

Erase is the only prod of there's i liked, rest was average at best, and now erase is bunk with the new formula (sorry, but it is).

Ill report on my findings, mp are gaining loads of ground lately, prewirkout is the best I've tried to date

 

[tyrub42]

Yeah, im learning this is a PES forum...the MP section is no longer active.

Erase is the only prod of there's i liked, rest was average at best, and now erase is bunk with the new formula (sorry, but it is).

Ill report on my findings, mp are gaining loads of ground lately, prewirkout is the best I've tried to date

Yeah please report back on how you liked it.

It's not exactly a PES forum but I mean, they are a sponsors here and a lot of people (including myself) really like the company. Personally, I think they put out great products, but if you didn't have good luck with anything you tried, I know how it feels as I have had that happen with a couple of other companies' products. Even if it doesn't mean the product is bad, it still sucks to have it, try it expecting a lot, and then get nothing. That's unfortunately the way it goes sometimes and I think that is why PES has a big fan base here: their products work for the majority of users and experiences are usually very positive.

I can't speak for the new Erase as I am literally just trying the old Erase Pro for the first time right now and don't have any of the new formula. I am enjoying the original formula a lot so far, though (day 12 today).

 

[Toff]

unfortunately the new blend is herbal. There are alternatives, such as PCT black, and some ebay copies... PES Shift also has been replicated I notice... still called SHIFT but different company name.
Cant use Erase Pro, as 75mg is too much for me, 1-2 was sweet spot for my body. LeCheek do a DAA with the same ingredient at 50mg but I didn't feel any effects.

Goalposts keep moving, products get banned, all MusclePharms are certified (and have to be for MMA) so for me at least, they seem no B.S. with some feel good hype added but underneath though, quality products - the Mrs is on their CLA and she looks great.

Updates to come

 

[Sean1332]

all MusclePharms are certified (and have to be for MMA) so for me at least, they seem no B.S. with some feel good hype added but underneath though, quality product

Except for that batch of Assault! ha

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/12/ds-craze-obituary-notice-from-lab.html?m=1

 

[tyrub42]

unfortunately the new blend is herbal. There are alternatives, such as PCT black, and some ebay copies... PES Shift also has been replicated I notice... still called SHIFT but different company name.
Cant use Erase Pro, as 75mg is too much for me, 1-2 was sweet spot for my body. LeCheek do a DAA with the same ingredient at 50mg but I didn't feel any effects.

Goalposts keep moving, products get banned, all MusclePharms are certified (and have to be for MMA) so for me at least, they seem no B.S. with some feel good hype added but underneath though, quality products - the Mrs is on their CLA and she looks great.

Updates to come

Yeah PCT Black would be your best bet then as a bottle can be found under 20USD and would last you 60 days. Hard to beat that! Alphamax is new and has lots of good stuff including Arimistane and forskolin and you can find it together with their PWO for like 35 bucks so right now is a good time to like arimistane.

Not sure what you mean in regards to MP and MMA but I would hope that all major supp companies have certified lab testing done on their raw materials. Muscle Pharm is not designed for MMA though; they just sponsor some high-level fighters to get their name out there. It's really the only thing I like about the company as it can be tough for fighters to find sponsorships (although I don't know how many lower-level fighters they actually sponsor). They did get their name out there, though, and they are one of the only companies that have products for sale here (Taiwan), so good for them I guess. I do agree that you don't have to be worried about anything of theirs being contaminated if that is a concern.

***Nevermind that last sentence now that I saw Sean's post above mine***

 

[Toff]

Except for that batch of Assault! ha

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/12/ds-craze-obituary-notice-from-lab.html?m=1

1mg...i get more amphetamine intake breathing the air in a nightclub on a Saturday night!

 

[tyrub42]

1mg...i get more amphetamine intake breathing the air in a nightclub on a Saturday night!

I would like to go to THAT nightclub!

 

[tyrub42]

Oh also Toff, this is slightly off topic, but I tried ashwagandha and relora a few months ago for sleep benefits, and I noticed that they helped keep me lean. The effect was very noticeable just off dosing them together at night (once per day). NOW makes both of the extracts I took, so you can get them wherever you are (although I got them from Nutraplanet and had them shipped since Taiwan marks supplements up several hundred percent). They don't give you any energy (actually the exact opposite), but they really helped fat loss for me and it was completely by accident. They also allowed me to stop taking pharmaceutical sleep aides (alprazolam, estazolam, etc...). If you want to try something different, you could try that combo.

 

[Toff]

MP are the official nutritional supplement supplier to the UFC..amongst others (such as the US army and cincinnati reds)

p.s. thanks, will take a look

 

[HIT4ME]

Yohimbine made me dizzy, dexaprine made me feel i was gonna die, alphamine was a waste of time, any further examples??

Eca stack just made me hyper burnt me out but no loss,
tt-33 gave me muscle loss...still the fat remains.

Diet and training, check. Reviews on the above seem to suggest a new generation of fat loss after users have 'tried them all'.

Google poliquin l-cartinine and thermodiamine alone good stuff. Add green tea and caffeine, plus ant estrogen and test boost in the same pack for 20 quid, im trying out iron cuts.

Sorry - if ECA didn't work for you, and the stuff above didn't work, then your diet and training are not in check. None of this stuff is going to be magical. The stuff in the MP products is OK at best. I have used Evodiamine for years and it is almost unnoticeable, and L-Carnitine is no magic fat burner. I'm not saying either is not effective - but they are not magic.

Like I said, if I look real hard I can see the benefits of the stuff you are looking at, but it's not impressive.

As for Alphamine - I actually hated it my first time around. It made me feel funny, didn't kill my appetite, gave me a weird energy that I didn't like, and I think it tastes like crap. I only used half the tub. After about 6 months I decided to at least finish off the tub and had a much better experience. I don't know what the deal was. It still wasn't good tasting and I've always questioned how so many people like the taste, but I had Fruit Punch and that may not be their best flavor.

Some other items I would look into are:

7-Oxo-DHEA (I'm using this transdermally now, easy to make a homebrew, and it seems fairly effective)
Green Tea as you mentioned
Raspberry Ketones (Over 1 gram per day can warm you up)
11-oxo (again, I would try transdermal, and this is a hormonal product so you will need PCT)

Unfortunately, beyond that you are looking at harsher, grey-market stuff.