Burst Cycling- An idea - please critique.

[aspire210]

Just thinking of ideas about how to make small gains that are maintainable with minimal shutdown. Pulsing sounds ok, but I don't like the high doses, although I may try it in the future. So I was thinking of alternatives. I remember a while back there was a program called ABCDE (Anabolic Burst Cycling of Diet and Exercise) from muscle media. Basically, it was 2 weeks of Major bulking and 2 weeks of major cutting. I was thinking of using anavar for 2 weeks at a moderate dose, say 20-30mg for the cutting period, followed by 2 weeks of dianabol, say 30-40mg, for the bulking period. Then hyperdrol for 4 weeks followed by going natty for 4 weeks. While it may not be massive gains like people want with steroids it should give some decent recomp/lean bulk. Say you lose 2-3lbs of fat in the first 2 weeks, then gain 3-4lbs of muscle in the last 2 weeks. Then gain 1-2lbs of muscle in the following 8 weeks.

Give the user starting stats of 175lbs@10% bf. That is 17.5lbs of fat and 157.5lbs of LBM. Say you lose 3lbs of fat during the anavar, gain 3lbs of LBM during the dianabol (not counting water) and then gains 2lbs of muscle during the hyperdrol and natty phase you would come out at 177lbs@8%bf. While not a huge difference it would be noticeable. Next time say you feel you are lean enough and just want to bulk. Go for 2 weeks at 30/40mg of dbol. Say you gain 3lbs of LBM and 1lb of fat then do the hyperdrol/natty part again and gain 2 more lbs of LBM. This would put you at [email protected]%bf. This would take about 6 months. At a year, you could be up almost 15lbs with the same starting LBM:Fat ratio, pretty much no pct blues and up and down weight rollar coaster. Just slow steady gains. Only small amounts of time on would be less detrimental to the body as well as the HPTA.

While it may not be as dramatic of weight gain, it would be better for the body and much more maintainable. Also, for people like me long cycles sometimes seem to drag on forever which can make it hard to keep intensity in the gym up. The reason I put var first is because of the minimal HPTA suppression from it. Also, dbol is very fast acting and not really that suppressive. Anabolics 2k7 talks of a study with physiological doses for 8 weeks resulting in something around 70% suppression of LH. Two weeks might spur 30-40% suppression, but due to dbols lower affinity for the AR, the user could start the hyperdrol a few days before ending the dbol which would lower circulating estrogen helping the HPTA rebound faster.

Any criticism is welcome as I am still refining this idea.

 

[sfearl1]

this is definitely something i would be interested in following if you chose to run it.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Would you be worried about side effects from rapidly increasing and decreasing serum levels of hormones Aspire?

 

[aspire210]

Would you be worried about side effects from rapidly increasing and decreasing serum levels of hormones Aspire?

Acne is the only side I would expect. Neither anavar nor dbol is really at risk of BPH. Neither is really androgenic either, so I wouldn't expect much in the way of sides, again aside from acne. As per weird hormonal fluctuation sides such as moodiness, anger, etc, really only tren has ever caused a mental difference for me. Its kind of the "building the perfect beast" approach in that you get in quick, hit the system hard with androgens then get out before shutdown gets really bad. What other sides effects do you anticipate from this method?

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Acne is the only side I would expect. Neither anavar nor dbol is really at risk of BPH. Neither is really androgenic either, so I wouldn't expect much in the way of sides, again aside from acne. As per weird hormonal fluctuation sides such as moodiness, anger, etc, really only tren has ever caused a mental difference for me. Its kind of the "building the perfect beast" approach in that you get in quick, hit the system hard with androgens then get out before shutdown gets really bad. What other sides effects do you anticipate from this method?

Just those that you had listed primarily. I was following in line with the ED approach with short estered injectables with my comment, keeping serum levels stable to avoid side effects. However, with orals I guess the transition period off and between the compounds would be minimalistic. Are you planning on overlapping the Var and D-Bol in the middle?

I suppose hepatoxicity may be the only concern, insofar as the liver needing to process the active metabolites of two orals as opposed to one. However, you would be making a great choice in Var for all these possible side-effects. Its mildness makes it a perfectly suited choice.

Have you considered running test base (whether in suspension or TD) as part of this burst? Possibly throughout the length of the orals, or do you feel that would exacerbate the shutdown you are trying to avoid in the first place?

 

[aspire210]

Just those that you had listed primarily. I was following in line with the ED approach with short estered injectables with my comment, keeping serum levels stable to avoid side effects. However, with orals I guess the transition period off and between the compounds would be minimalistic. Are you planning on overlapping the Var and D-Bol in the middle?

I suppose hepatoxicity may be the only concern, insofar as the liver needing to process the active metabolites of two orals as opposed to one. However, you would be making a great choice in Var for all these possible side-effects. Its mildness makes it a perfectly suited choice.

Have you considered running test base (whether in suspension or TD) as part of this burst? Possibly throughout the length of the orals, or do you feel that would exacerbate the shutdown you are trying to avoid in the first place?

No, I have no plans on overlapping the two. I would run a test base, but test would cause much more severe shutdown than these two orals. A major part of why I am thinking of this approach is minimization of shutdown. I'm tired of the highs and lows and the pct blues.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Yeah, that's very understandable. That's what I was assuming.

 

[beebab]

sounds like an interesting theory, on paper. but the only problem i see is that it'd take longer than 2 weeks for these steroidal compounds to fully build up in the system, generally speaking. with any cycle, the benefits of prohormones and oral steroids usually begin to manifest themselves during week 2, going into weeks 3 and 4. then afterward, there's the expected shut down.

however, the idea is right up there with pulsing for a unique way to minimize post cycle sides and suppression

 

[aspire210]

sounds like an interesting theory, on paper. but the only problem i see is that it'd take longer than 2 weeks for these steroidal compounds to fully build up in the system, generally speaking. with any cycle, the benefits of prohormones and oral steroids usually begin to manifest themselves during week 2, going into weeks 3 and 4. then afterward, there's the expected shut down.

however, the idea is right up there with pulsing for a unique way to minimize post cycle sides and suppression

I always disagreed with this idea. If you think about it and do the math on the half life, maximal serum levels are reached by 72 hours for the average oral steroid. I think the results are instantaneous, you just don't see the real gains right away. If you think about it, the steroids really aren't making recovery that much faster until you workout. So it might take a work out or two before your body can build the new muscle. Thats my theory anyway, but I do see what you mean about results not being as obvious for a few weeks.

 

[pistonpump]

always good to see some new ideas....

I feel you on the long cycles dragging and sometimes losing intensity.....been there. Post cycle blues suck a$$ too.

This could be run constantly through the year. If doses were kept low. I still think you would have to take into account the cumunlative amount of shutdown that could happen after this was done maybe 3 times (cycled thru w/ the natty phase) perhaps some SERM in the hyperdrol phase every three phases or something like that...

I think as we get more experienced we look for different methods of cycling to better suit our own liking and theory...THats how new methods are born and like always everyone reacts differently. Ive seen about even net gains with long cycles and short ones but i like shorter ones better because i believe they are alot easier on the body. time on compared with dosages and compounds, i rather not be on for longer periods...i think im rambling. People say longer cycles get the body used to the weight thus keeping gains easier....i think thats just an opinion, you can hold the weight if you recover faster imo. by short cycling then recovering then short cycling i think net gains could be very much comparable, even better than 2 three month cycles in a year.

 

[pistonpump]

did that make any sense lol? damn.

 

[cynderblock10]

sounds like a good idea the abcde diet that is how long till u start??

 

[size]

Read this thread:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/18318-short-cycles-some.html

I know it is old, but I think it will have information in it that you will find useful. Lots of questions and answers that you probably have can be found in it.

 

[pudzian2]

i think it would be interesting. I understand why not many people have experimented with this, as most people arent so theoretically educated. For those of us who are....it may be a long term smart way to use. the only problem I see is the CONSISTENT flow of methylated steroids.....

I think that if liver enzymes are elevated for a short amount of time they bounce back with little damage if any.BUT if a constant stress (even if it is very minimal) is placed on the liver over a longer period of time ....there is more damage?

There are too many personally unique variables with hepatoxicity to actually determine this quantitatively, however according to generally accepted principles that we refer to here...it seems it could cause trouble..

 

[pudzian2]

wonder if this type of thing could be done with super fast acting injectable suspensions?

 

[Mulletsoldier]

wonder if this type of thing could be done with super fast acting injectable suspensions?

I think the only issue there is rapid onset of shutdown, especially if you are using a hormone with high AR binding affinity.

 

[pudzian2]

I think the only issue there is rapid onset of shutdown, especially if you are using a hormone with high AR binding affinity.

that is true..... hmm fast acting transdermals with less androgenic substances.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

that is true..... hmm fast acting transdermals with less androgenic substances.

Yeah, that could very well work. A high anabolic, somewhat low androgenic substance, over a 6-8 week cycle.

 

[pudzian2]

Yeah, that could very well work. A high anabolic, somewhat low androgenic substance, over a 6-8 week cycle.

agreed....now what compound....?

 

[Mulletsoldier]

A short estered version of Boldenone possibly?

 

[pudzian2]

A short estered version of Boldenone possibly?

yea...quite mild. It would work

 

[aspire210]

A short estered version of Boldenone possibly?

hurts like a ***** though. I think it was bold prop or cyp that people experimented with that caused large amounts of swelling and a 72 hour flu after each injection.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

hurts like a ***** though. I think it was bold prop or cyp that people experimented with that caused large amounts of swelling and a 72 hour flu after each injection.

Yeah, it was bold prop. But, what if you could saponify that for some Bold Base and run it as a TD? Possible?

 

[pudzian2]

hurts like a ***** though. I think it was bold prop or cyp that people experimented with that caused large amounts of swelling and a 72 hour flu after each injection.

I would think bold prop would do that moreseo than cyp....but damn

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I do not see any real issue in running a Bold base TD, unless somebody here does. You can obviously purchase Bold Base, and I would assume, even given the short half-life, a very low androgenic profile. I've seen only a mention here and there of a Bold-Base TD though.

 

[pudzian2]

I do not see any real issue in running a Bold base TD, unless somebody here does. You can obviously purchase Bold Base, and I would assume, even given the short half-life, a very low androgenic profile. I've seen only a mention here and there of a Bold-Base TD though.

well you can make a bold base transdermal i suppose.

 

[babyblu]

Yes there have been bold base TD products out there.

 

[jminis]

you guys should check out Size's link. It will answer most questions posed here.

 

[aspire210]

well you can make a bold base transdermal i suppose.

ive done it, it worked amazingly well. I used tgel back in the day.

 

[lild]

pulse after cycle

yea i tried pulseing for two weeks after my m-drol cycle.some board members thought it was stupid . well.... i only did post cycle therapy's for 3 days after and i still haven't lost a pound two weeks after last pulse dose.point is everybody is different so you got to try new ideas to see what will work 4 u.by the way i have got stronger since cycle ended. before the pulse it was a 3 week cycle of m-drol at 20/30/40....lild

 

[Mulletsoldier]

ive done it, it worked amazingly well. I used tgel back in the day.

What were the specs on your Bold Base cycle Aspire?

 

[aspire210]

What were the specs on your Bold Base cycle Aspire?

It was honestly years ago, and it didn't mix very well from what I remember. I remember it being very gritty, but it was my first trans dermal that I made. Even if I remembered the dosage I was going for, it would be hard to say it was that amount since it was so gritty. I stacked it with test and tbol for about 5 weeks. Shot up a ton of weight, 15-20lbs, if I remember right. Hard to know what to attribute to the bold base though.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

It was honestly years ago, and it didn't mix very well from what I remember. I remember it being very gritty, but it was my first trans dermal that I made. Even if I remembered the dosage I was going for, it would be hard to say it was that amount since it was so gritty. I stacked it with test and tbol for about 5 weeks. Shot up a ton of weight, 15-20lbs, if I remember right. Hard to know what to attribute to the bold base though.

Interesting. I have a ****-ton of Test Cyp powder laying around that I am planning to saponify and use in a TD. I was thinking 6 weeks, adding Bold Base would be very fruitful, I imagine.

 

[drewh10987]

This is a really interesting thread. Just sorta bumping this since its a day or two old and I'm interested to hear more.

 

[aspire210]

I'm guinea pigging it:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/80953-burst-cycle-guinea.html#post1127585