Bulk Cissus in stock

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Also, I am slowly but surely phasing out the plastic bags. The cissus is the first product to be packaged in screw top jars. I am a freakin professional or what? ;)
 
custom said:
Also, I am slowly but surely phasing out the plastic bags. The cissus is the first product to be packaged in screw top jars. I am a freakin professional or what? ;)
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Well damn, you announce this right after my order shipped :blink: . I just can't win.
 
damn...im always trying to take LESS supplements and then Matt goes ahead and gets new fun goodies that are just too inexpensive to try out.
 
I dont have a vacuum sealer...yet. I'll see if I can find a kitchen one that is not too expensive.
 
Cissus is good stuff. Matt, I'll definitely be purchasing stuffe when I run out of my USP stock. I'm finally able to bench and shoulder press again .

P.S. to the CrownedOne, I'm an Independent Baptist and judging by the scanning through the contents of the link to JesusisLord.com, your beliefs are RIGHT in line w/ mine. That's very refreshing w/ all the false teachings today. Stay true to THE WORD. It is the only truth we have.
 
custom said:
I dont have a vacuum sealer...yet. I'll see if I can find a kitchen one that is not too expensive.
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You cannot vaccume seal a powder.

The powder will be sucked out
 
depends on how fine the poweder is... if you have something thats as fine as drip coffee then you can seal it with out a problem... hence all the seal bricks off coffee THOUGH it is not a true air tight seal.. but its pretty darn close.. and almost impossible to do again... oh hell.. SET IT AND FORGET IT
 
Scottyo said:
damn...im always trying to take LESS supplements and then Matt goes ahead and gets new fun goodies that are just too inexpensive to try out.
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CNW is fast becoming the bane of recovering supplement whores. I wonder how cissus and some of these other herbs would taste in a salad dressing, or on baked chicken breasts.
 
Robboe said:
If it wasn't for USP labs bring this out and introducing you all to it, would you have heard about it?
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If it wasn't for Ford bringing out the car none of us would have a car today.

I agree with what you're saying but the majority of people want a finish product and not to cap thing themselves. The bulk powder market really only serves a small percentage of the industry.
 
houseman said:
If it wasn't for Ford bringing out the car none of us would have a car today.

I agree with what you're saying but the majority of people want a finish product and not to cap thing themselves. The bulk powder market really only serves a small percentage of the industry.
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Engines and mobility units grandually evolved over time. It wasn't like a brand new invention that someone produced a machine to take you from A to B.

I just don't find it particularly refreshing to see someone gaining from the efforts of others in such a way. In the plant, insect and animal kingdom, they're called parasites.

To be honest, most of the stuff sold on there doesn't bother me. Its just the recent spate of additions of compounds that some companies spent months to years researching. Matt doesn't even know what some of the stuff he sells actually does.

I'm not bitter as such, nor am i going to lose sleep over it, but just bear in mind that this industry has a distinct lack of innovation these days for several reasons, including blatant rip-offs. Avant Labs for one, is a company that has almost given up entirely on researching new innovative products because of this.

And yet in the future, most will complain about companies not fully divulging product components. Interesting, that.
 
I don't know how you can call Cissus an innovative product. I saw it sold in bulk before USP Labs sold it. He just marketed it to the bodybuilding community.
 
Robboe said:
Engines and mobility units grandually evolved over time. It wasn't like a brand new invention that someone produced a machine to take you from A to B.

I just don't find it particularly refreshing to see someone gaining from the efforts of others in such a way. In the plant, insect and animal kingdom, they're called parasites.

To be honest, most of the stuff sold on there doesn't bother me. Its just the recent spate of additions of compounds that some companies spent months to years researching. Matt doesn't even know what some of the stuff he sells actually does.

I'm not bitter as such, nor am i going to lose sleep over it, but just bear in mind that this industry has a distinct lack of innovation these days for several reasons, including blatant rip-offs. Avant Labs for one, is a company that has almost given up entirely on researching new innovative products because of this.

And yet in the future, most will complain about companies not fully divulging product components. Interesting, that.
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I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying but where was this thinking of DS when sledge-test as being sold? What about m-1-t, mdien and mohn?

What innovation was DS providing there?

What about XEED? What Innovation is in that?

Are you the pot or kettle?
 
Robboe said:
Where did i mention DS?
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You didn't. I did.

You can't come here claiming lack of innovation in the industry when DS has been in the same boat at times in the history of the company.

As I said, I don't disagree with what you are saying it does look like sour grapes though. And, as I've said... the people minority of AM.com aren't really the market you (DS, Avant, USP, etc) are going after right now. In the beginning it was but you've moved past that and the people you want are those who want a finished product.

There are many, many more people who want a finished product compared to one you have to cap and mix yourself.
 
houseman said:
You didn't. I did.

You can't come here claiming lack of innovation in the industry when DS has been in the same boat at times in the history of the company.
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While i'm not interested in an arguement, i will address this.

Mentioned earlier - the XCEED product is nothing particularly novel other than the given amounts. That said, there was no intention to release a CEE product until Matt was asked by someone on AM to, and several people agreed. We debated actually having it released under the Designer Stackables line.

WRT prohormones and such, while it was before my time, DS never released an M1T product that i am aware of. I dunno about m-dien, but i think DS may have been the first to release M4OHN.
 
Robboe said:
While i'm not interested in an arguement, i will address this.

Mentioned earlier - the XCEED product is nothing particularly novel other than the given amounts. That said, there was no intention to release a CEE product until Matt was asked by someone on AM to, and several people agreed. We debated actually having it released under the Designer Stackables line.

WRT prohormones and such, while it was before my time, DS never released an M1T product that i am aware of. I dunno about m-dien, but i think DS may have been the first to release M4OHN.
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Oh no no no.. .those were the days... when you could go to sledges old website, and order up the M1T, Mdien, and M4OHN powders.. all in the little folded brown paper.


Ahhh.. Nostalgia.

Adams
 
Robboe said:
WRT prohormones and such, while it was before my time, DS never released an M1T product that i am aware of. I dunno about m-dien, but i think DS may have been the first to release M4OHN.
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Didn't realise about the M1T, but i've been told MDien was one of the DS originals.
 
Robboe said:
Didn't realise about the M1T, but i've been told MDien was one of the DS originals.
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First to be put out to the masses yes. But like all of the designers today, was made and researched before... just never made it to the public eye. I still have a couple bottles of MDien laying around from DS... Stacked with the other DS "Originals" M4OHN... Killer combo for a cut.

Adams
 
drunk said:
I don't know how you can call Cissus an innovative product. I saw it sold in bulk before USP Labs sold it. He just marketed it to the bodybuilding community.
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This is really the only point.

Cissus has been available in bulk since well before the web existed.

Harjor/Cissus has been available from every bulk herb store since they existed.

Having read about it eons ago, I was surprised to see it resurface.

And I count count on one hand the market percentage of people who buy bulk powders and cap them.

The truth is, CNW fills a small void that was once occupied by Black Star Labs, Designer Supplements, and Kilo Sports.

These companies have changed business models precisely b/c they know there's much more money in finished product.

CNW is well-loved among the small group of people who do still buy bulk powder, and for good reason.

BTW: Oh yes, the days when I bought ass-tons of M1T, MDien, M-Anything from DS....Just opened another brown envelope of M4OHN today :)

RE: First to market...I think DS was first with MDien and M1,4, if I'm not mistaken.
 
Robboe, call me a parasite of you want, but I know much more about DS issues and your products than you realize. So for now, I would ask you drop the cheap jabs before I feel obliged to jab back. I would also ask that you kindly refrain from name calling and please bow out of my forum if you cannot do so.

And, I have never, ever claimed to know all there is about the bulk stiff i carry. On the contrary, I specifically stated the the truth that I am a business man first and foremost.
 
Parasite was a bit of a cheap shot. I'll apologize on Rob's behalf. The rest of the points about customer support of innovation are all valid, but have been beaten to death on various boards. And frankly, its not support of the bulk suppliers that hurts innovation and the sales of finished product (as many have alluded to). Its the market support of the knock-offs and knock-off companies that do.

But, end-users who support knock offs and even bulk suppliers, ought not complain about proprietary blends and fancy-footwork when it comes to labeling, and so on. Personally, I believe in transparency in this day and age, but it is increasingly becoming bad business to be transparent.

Also, there never was any relation with Black Star Labs and Avant Labs. BSL was a spin off of Xtreme Formulations.
 
Twin Peak said:
Parasite was a bit of a cheap shot. I'll apologize on Rob's behalf. The rest of the points about customer support of innovation are all valid, but have been beaten to death on various boards. And frankly, its not support of the bulk suppliers that hurts innovation and the sales of finished product (as many have alluded to). Its the market support of the knock-offs and knock-off companies that do.

But, end-users who support knock offs and even bulk suppliers, ought not complain about proprietary blends and fancy-footwork when it comes to labeling, and so on. Personally, I believe in transparency in this day and age, but it is increasingly becoming bad business to be transparent.

Also, there never was any relation with Black Star Labs and Avant Labs. BSL was a spin off of Xtreme Formulations.
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As a consumer, I go no problems with transparancy :D
 
Twin Peak said:
Also, there never was any relation with Black Star Labs and Avant Labs. BSL was a spin off of Xtreme Formulations.
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Oops--I didn't know that, sorry. I guess I got that confused.

Editing my post now.
 
Twin Peak said:
Parasite was a bit of a cheap shot. I'll apologize on Rob's behalf. The rest of the points about customer support of innovation are all valid, but have been beaten to death on various boards. And frankly, its not support of the bulk suppliers that hurts innovation and the sales of finished product (as many have alluded to). Its the market support of the knock-offs and knock-off companies that do.
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I think it comes more down to lack of education. Most people who buy a knock off don't know they're buying a knock off. Someone who buys a GXR clone for example, one with everything but the kitchen sink thrown in and sub optimal doses all around, is just making a bad choice overall. While the overall effect is companies who innovate get the **** end of the stick to one degree or another, I really don't think it's a conscious effort to screw them on the part of the consumers. The companies that make the knock offs on the other hand are out to screw innovative companies by piggy backing on the efforts of others. But aside from patents there doesn't seem to be any way to fight this, other than just not saying what's in a particular product.

I think most people's concern regarding label tranparency revolve around health effects. They want to know, for example, if they're taking a methylated hormone. They want to know about contraindications and what not, things to avoid, recommended doses. Basically they just want a reasonable idea of what they're getting. So far you guys have been good at giving as much as possible while keeping actives mostly to yourselves. For me especially though, that's my concern. Am I taking my life into my own hands while taking this new product or not, that kind of thing.
 
Basically, the way I see it is I cater to what the customer wants. If no one ever asked for bulk whatever, obviously I would not carry it. There will always be a few who like to say a penny by whatever means necessary, even if that means gagging down some pungent powders. Far more people would rather spend an extra buck to get a nice finished product with a fancy label. I honestly do not see these markets crossing over all that much.
 
USP neither invented Cissus nor produced the research that lay hold to its claims of bioactive properties. They simply took a natural, God-created plant used for hundreds of years and recently substantiated by modern science into an arena catering to our desires. There is no innovation there. Perhaps if they had synthesized a chemical constituent of a substance or created a completely new compound, then you could cast dispersions at Matt. But don't come into his forum he pays to have sponsored, broadcasting your condescending opinions of him and his practices. You could have handled this matter privately in a manner becoming a gentleman, but instead you chose to cast stones in the midst of the public in a feeble attempt to shine a negative light upon our faithful friend. I expected much more from you, Rob.
 
I agree with Stephene and I'm gonna stick up for Matt. He is the most honest and respected (by me at least) person I ever had to deal over internet... and I love to cap my powders:D

God bless you, Matt
 
i am still trying to figure out what matt's secret is for his "bulk stiff" ...:ntome:





there will always be a market for all and everyone.. even if you throw in research chems... how easy could it be for everyone to just go ahead and buy some T-3 and lose "weight" but no.. a majority of the people want other products that may or may not work just as well, feel that they are "safer" and also easier to use.. so lets give a big ol hip hip horray for a free market system!.....( on everything except oil) but that for another thread
 
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