big cycle almost over.... what now?

[dustinr334]

hey guys almost done with a big cycle.
wk 1-4 dbol 40mg
wk 1-13 deca 500/wk
wk 1-15 sust 600/wk
Im going to continue to eat big and lift strong through my post cycle.
i gained lots of muscle mass as well as aquired some fat as well,(as to be expected)
Question is how long would u guys continue eating and training this way after post to ensure gains are kept, also when would it b safe enter the cutting phase so i dont lose gains, just mostly fat

 

[PVL]

time off equals twice the time you were on cycle. you should be off for 8 months out of the year. if you cant continue to make gains, your nutrition and training are off or you are partying too much.

that being said, use natural test boosters and get the most out of your body. when you are fresh, your receptors will respond much quicker and you will get your size back within the first 2 weeks, disregard the whole "you dont see results on test e or cyp til 2 weeks" thats a load of crap.

your bodies baseline levels continue to climb until the 2 week mark, where they stabilize.........hope that helps

 

[dustinr334]

any other takers on this?

 

[GLHF]

i would say PCT + 4-6weeks after pct of eating. than possibly start a cut with maybe peptides. and igf lr3 is great for post cycle.

 

[PVL]

i would say PCT + 4-6weeks after pct of eating. than possibly start a cut with maybe peptides. and igf lr3 is great for post cycle.

ive heard the same thing about igf, just havent tried it.......u have experience with this?

personally i would run PCT 12 weeks, no joke, to get ur test through the roof to be safe.........well atleast in 600-800

 

[san731]

ive heard the same thing about igf, just havent tried it.......u have experience with this?

personally i would run PCT 12 weeks, no joke, to get ur test through the roof to be safe.........well atleast in 600-800

Idk about all of this. SERMS are carcinogens themselves and regardless of how high your test gets, it will stabilize to baseline. 4-6 weeks is plenty if you're PCT protocol is right.

 

[oufinny]

Idk about all of this. SERMS are carcinogens themselves and regardless of how high your test gets, it will stabilize to baseline. 4-6 weeks is plenty if you're PCT protocol is right.

Even though you ran deca I think 5-6 weeks of clomid is PLENTY! Make sure you have some aromasin in there as it is essential for a successful PCT. Also, your coming off of sust so it will take a while to clear completely so that will make your PCT that much harder. Peptides are a great thing to run in between cycles and there are lots of inexpensive options. As for eating just know the amount of protein synthesis you on cycle will diminish off so you have to watch your total caloric input or you will get fat. I wouldn't cut for 8 weeks, and if you do I would go recomp into a cut.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

take a lot of time off the pinning. it will just be that much better the next time you do it the longeryour off. you dont want to get addicted your wreck your natty test forever let alone your heart ect. work on keep gains and just look forward to your next cycle.

 

[Matthersby]

Peptides are a great thing to run in between cycles and there are lots of inexpensive options.

Which would you reccomend to maintain size? I've already decided to run IGF-1 LR3 in my pct but unsure what to run for the next 6 months. I don't want to run multiple AAS cycles a year and looking for inexpensive safer alternatives.

 

[oufinny]

Peptides are a great thing to run in between cycles and there are lots of inexpensive options.

Which would you reccomend to maintain size? I've already decided to run IGF-1 LR3 in my pct but unsure what to run for the next 6 months. I don't want to run multiple AAS cycles a year and looking for inexpensive safer alternatives.

CJC-1295 w/ DAC is an excellent peptide to use for mass gain if dosed above 3mgs per week if memory serves right. PM me if you want more information, I can send you to a thread about it on another board. Some don't like it as they say the GH bleed is bad but I disagree, it is great at cutting fat and is anabolic at a higher dose.

Also, have you looked at SARMs? You can run a low dose of osta-SARMs for an extended period of time and if you want to cruise/blast wtih it you can though it is mildly suppressive at a higher dose. Again, that is nothing compared to 600mgs of test a week though in suppression.

 

[Matthersby]

Thanks... I've got alot to learn. Probably a good idea to see how my first cycle goes before I decide AAS are too risky for me. However, peptides/gh/igf and sarms are begining to interest me.

 

[dustinr334]

Even though you ran deca I think 5-6 weeks of clomid is PLENTY! Make sure you have some aromasin in there as it is essential for a successful PCT. Also, your coming off of sust so it will take a while to clear completely so that will make your PCT that much harder. Peptides are a great thing to run in between cycles and there are lots of inexpensive options. As for eating just know the amount of protein synthesis you on cycle will diminish off so you have to watch your total caloric input or you will get fat. I wouldn't cut for 8 weeks, and if you do I would go recomp into a cut.

i dont have time to order peptides although this i will remember next cycle. i do have a lot of good supps though. i will be taking prami for a while after last shot then begin post with nolva/clomid... i know i know not supposed to do nolva with deca but i ran my sust out 2 weeks past deca and then taking prami while waiting for sust to clear so this means 4 weeks of no deca..i will eat well through post then tone it down a bit so i dont get fat.. i need to lose cycle fat but not worried cause i dont wanna lose gains.. ill wait at leat 4 weeks after pct before cutting.....sound good?

 

[machorox123]

. i know i know not supposed to do nolva with deca

Why aren't you suppose to run nolvadex after deca?

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

Why aren't you suppose to run nolvadex after deca?

doesnt do well with prolactin sides and can cause a little bit of delayed gyno. most people do fine. might as well go with clomid or torem though. something that gets HTPA back faster.

 

[machorox123]

doesnt do well with prolactin sides and can cause a little bit of delayed gyno. most people do fine. might as well go with clomid or torem though. something that gets HTPA back faster.

Gotcha yea that makes Sense

 

[oufinny]

i dont have time to order peptides although this i will remember next cycle. i do have a lot of good supps though. i will be taking prami for a while after last shot then begin post with nolva/clomid... i know i know not supposed to do nolva with deca but i ran my sust out 2 weeks past deca and then taking prami while waiting for sust to clear so this means 4 weeks of no deca..i will eat well through post then tone it down a bit so i dont get fat.. i need to lose cycle fat but not worried cause i dont wanna lose gains.. ill wait at leat 4 weeks after pct before cutting.....sound good?

Why do people think nolva and clomid is a good idea. Run an AI like you are supposed to and clomid or torem, nolva is by far the third in a list of SERMS and research backs this. Aromasin in PCT with clomid/torem is the fastest way to increase HPTA and prevent estrogen rebound. The PCT advice on this site makes me laugh, people don't do any research (no offense OP, you could have been steered wrong in the past).

 

[fueledpassion]

I always use Clomid and Aromasin, too. It works and only takes about 4 weeks to get things back to normal easily.

Nolva is for guys that can't handle Clomid - that's it IMO.

Speaking of peptides - my protocol is IGF-1 LR3 @ 20mcg/day and CJC-1295 no dac and Ipamorelin @ 100mcg 2-3 times/day. That works well. In fact, you might have even more gains with that stack if you combine it with consistent training and a good diet like the LG diet.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

i am still wondering about clomid sides. huge loads and big balls dont sound too shabby!

 

[Lightweight1]

Anyone ever tried running clomid and torem in PCT ?

 

[mattrag]

Anyone ever tried running clomid and torem in PCT ?

I was interested in this as well.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

I was interested in this as well.

when people started using Torem as a safety they would use clomid at like 25mg with it for about 2 weeks and had good results. however, there was maybe 2 people who did nolva and torem together or maybe higher dose clomid and torem and had bad reaction. such a testicles hurting and such. i read this in like 2008-09ish though i kinda forgot.

my buddy uses clomid 50/50/25/25
nolva 20/20/20/20

both together for all his pct's but they are all 10-16 weeks, not orals, no hcg, and has had great success.

 

[mattrag]

when people started using Torem as a safety they would use clomid at like 25mg with it for about 2 weeks and had good results. however, there was maybe 2 people who did nolva and torem together or maybe higher dose clomid and torem and had bad reaction. such a testicles hurting and such. i read this in like 2008-09ish though i kinda forgot.

my buddy uses clomid 50/50/25/25
nolva 20/20/20/20

both together for all his pct's but they are all 10-16 weeks, not orals, no hcg, and has had great success.

Thanks bro. I'm running a similar pct starting tomorrow. I can see clomid and torem making the balls too big... Thanks again!! I'll rep when I get on my comp.

 

[fueledpassion]

Anyone ever tried running clomid and torem in PCT ?

What is the theory behind it? Do they act in different ways to stimulate test production?

 

[mattrag]

What is the theory behind it? Do they act in different ways to stimulate test production?

Forgot to comment on this last time. I thought torem was pretty much a less toxic form of nolva? But the extracting/synthesis makes it stimulate LH as well? Think I read that at another supp company website so it could be a bit off.

 

[fueledpassion]

Personally, I think Clomid, a test booster, and Aromasin or Formestane is the best test boosting stack in PCT.

Now for cortisol control, fat control, etc I don't know really. There could be many options for those.

For mine, I'll be using exactly what I recommended up ^^^ but with Clen as the cort control/fat burner during PCT.

And using Triptorelin at the beginning of PCT for a blast would make it bullet proof and a quick return to normal, IMO.

 

[ManBeast]

I like combining more mild dosages of clom and nolva as well since they both seem to work a bit differently.

ManBeast

 

[mattrag]

Personally, I think Clomid, a test booster, and Aromasin or Formestane is the best test boosting stack in PCT.

Now for cortisol control, fat control, etc I don't know really. There could be many options for those.

For mine, I'll be using exactly what I recommended up ^^^ but with Clen as the cort control/fat burner during PCT.

And using Triptorelin at the beginning of PCT for a blast would make it bullet proof and a quick return to normal, IMO.

When you use clen in PCT are you using it on a higher calorie diet and just taking advantage of the better nutrient partitioning from the upregulation of beta 2 receptors? Or are you cutting? I mean clen is a pretty good anabolic (compared to anything natural/non suppresive) and would make sure calories get to muscles versus fat. How does it help on the cortisol axis? And have you ever tried the Albuterol?

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

for a PH/DS cycle clomid 50/25/25 nolva 20/20/10/10 has worked very well

 

[mattrag]

for a PH/DS cycle clomid 50/25/25 nolva 20/20/10/10 has worked very well

wondering if front loading clomid might be a good idea... I hear some taking it to 125 the first couple days.

 

[GLHF]

peptides can go far! i recently started using igf lr3 2x week in biceps. i love it. im also staking it with ghrp6 200mcg 3x day + cjc 100mcg 3x day. on top of 500test/500eq/week.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

wondering if front loading clomid might be a good idea... I hear some taking it to 125 the first couple days.

yeah maybe 100 first 2-3 days if oral cycle. if not an oral cycle id do 100 for a week. and 150 first 2 days. when taking it with nolva a small dose of each is fine. no need to load. 25mg with nolva is fine.

 

[fueledpassion]

Well, cortisol is a catabolic hormone and Clen is anti-catabolic in nature. To increase protein synthesis is to thwart cortisol levels. Naturally, when u come off cycle of steroids u r losing lots of efficient protein sythesis via anabolic activity therefore this is the most likely time to see a rise in hormones like cortisol. I like Clen because it allows u to have efficient protein synthesis in the picture without adverse effects on the pituitary axis. There r other effective options but Clen and Keto allow for major fat burning, good protein synthesis and decent sleep (Keto) without causing more shutdown. Two years from now, it wont matter cuz I'll just be cruising rather than PCT.

Again, this is only what I think not what I know.

 

[fueledpassion]

yeah maybe 100 first 2-3 days if oral cycle. if not an oral cycle id do 100 for a week. and 150 first 2 days. when taking it with nolva a small dose of each is fine. no need to load. 25mg with nolva is fine.

From my experience with both orals and injection cycles, 50mg of Clomid straight thru PCT has been enough as long as I had a natty t booster and an AI with it. I mean really, is the extra 100mg for a few days really gonna make a difference in 3-4 weeks from now? Heck, on injection based cycles u still have some of the test in ur system EVEN WHEN PCT BEGINS. Same for oral only cycle - that first 2 weeks of PCT are fool proof because u still have some androgens floating around in ur blood giving u anabolic activity. In fact, I usually continue to make gains the first 10 days after PCT starts. So why the extra heavy dose at the beginning? Clomid is proven to re-establish normal HPTA function in as little as14 days using 50mg/day.

As friendly advice, I must say that if we are going into the realm of anabolics head-over-heels: if that is the case then we need a mindset of using only what is needed - the bare minimum to make things work. This is also how I feel in general about cycles, HCG, fat burners, and PCT. We must be responsible with this and treat these SERMs with respect and care.

 

[Matthersby]

Well, cortisol is a catabolic hormone and Clen is anti-catabolic in nature. To increase protein synthesis is to thwart cortisol levels. Naturally, when u come off cycle of steroids u r losing lots of efficient protein sythesis via anabolic activity therefore this is the most likely time to see a rise in hormones like cortisol. I like Clen because it allows u to have efficient protein synthesis in the picture without adverse effects on the pituitary axis. There r other effective options but Clen and Keto allow for major fat burning, good protein synthesis and decent sleep (Keto) without causing more shutdown. Two years from now, it wont matter cuz I'll just be cruising rather than PCT.

Again, this is only what I think not what I know.

Curious about your dose with clen in pct and for how long..
Also, how old will you be when you plan to start cruising?

 

[oufinny]

wondering if front loading clomid might be a good idea... I hear some taking it to 125 the first couple days.

Clomid has a really long half life, I suggest you do 100 for the first week, then you are set for a while as you go to 75/50/50 the last three weeks. I did this after my last cycle and I was good to go right away. I personally think that if it was a long AAS cycle 150 for day one or two could be used but man the mood swings from that dose are going to be extreme.

 

[fueledpassion]

Curious about your dose with clen in pct and for how long..
Also, how old will you be when you plan to start cruising?

Clen starts @ 20mcg/day and ramps up to 100mcg/day over the course of 3 weeks. Lay off for one week and start at it again using 1mg of Keto every night straight thru. You kinda have to play with it a bit since the sides are considerably harsh on Clen.

As for cruising, perhaps by the time I'm 28 years old. But by cruising I mean 250mg test/week with 250iu's of hCG/week. Honestly so much could happen by then and I might be out of the country and unable to use the blast and cruise technique or I might even just bail on bodybuilding as a serious hobby and go back to el naturale lifting. It's an undeveloped vision at this point. I know guys that are on TRT at 30 years old and the docs in my area pretty much prescribe TRT for anyone less than 800 on the ref range. As a smaller guy, I'm not so sure I've ever been at 800, lol. Maybe when I was 16-18 years old but now I'm good at 450-500 range. So really if the doc thinks I need it then I wouldn't mind getting on it as long as hCG is part of the cruise.

 

[mattrag]

From my experience with both orals and injection cycles, 50mg of Clomid straight thru PCT has been enough as long as I had a natty t booster and an AI with it. I mean really, is the extra 100mg for a few days really gonna make a difference in 3-4 weeks from now? Heck, on injection based cycles u still have some of the test in ur system EVEN WHEN PCT BEGINS. Same for oral only cycle - that first 2 weeks of PCT are fool proof because u still have some androgens floating around in ur blood giving u anabolic activity. In fact, I usually continue to make gains the first 10 days after PCT starts. So why the extra heavy dose at the beginning? Clomid is proven to re-establish normal HPTA function in as little as14 days using 50mg/day.


As friendly advice, I must say that if we are going into the realm of anabolics head-over-heels: if that is the case then we need a mindset of using only what is needed - the bare minimum to make things work. This is also how I feel in general about cycles, HCG, fat burners, and PCT. We must be responsible with this and treat these SERMs with respect and care.

Thanks for the advice bro! REPS