Best Oral/TD Test base

MrFlexo

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What is the best Test base that is Oral or TD. DermaCrine? Trest? 4-Andro? Other Andros or compounds? Does it depend on what you stack it with?
Also what doses are you running what you have chosen to be your test base?
 
Ironpirate

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All of that info can be found in previous threads. Sounds like you need to do a lot more research.
 
Afi140

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All of that info can be found in previous threads. Sounds like you need to do a lot more research.
Agreed. A lot more research. I will say the only true base that converts to test is 4-andro. Andro the giant or iconic topical 4 andro are your best bets for that compound. Trest is great just shuts you down hard and dermacrine can Also help with mild cycles.
 
Whisky

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Agreed. A lot more research. I will say the only true base that converts to test is 4-andro. Andro the giant or iconic topical 4 andro are your best bets for that compound. Trest is great just shuts you down hard and dermacrine can Also help with mild cycles.
or 4-ad which is the one step conversion rather than the two step 4-andro.

4-ad is still available from uk retailers I believe

OP - based on the way you’ve asked the question trest is probably not the right option. Great compound but very suppressive, hard to recover from and sides can be very problematic for some, it’s not anything like the same category as 4-andro
 
MrFlexo

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or 4-ad which is the one step conversion rather than the two step 4-andro.

4-ad is still available from uk retailers I believe

OP - based on the way you’ve asked the question trest is probably not the right option. Great compound but very suppressive, hard to recover from and sides can be very problematic for some, it’s not anything like the same category as 4-andro
Fusion Androtest right? yeah I'm selling my trest. I was just curious if a low dose was worth it
 
KvanH

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Fusion Androtest right? yeah I'm selling my trest. I was just curious if a low dose was worth it
That's the only 4-AD I've ever seen. Brawn has a product named 4-AD, but it's 4-Andro. Guess they took a page out of Hi-Tech's book.
 
MrFlexo

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That's the only 4-AD I've ever seen. Brawn has a product named 4-AD, but it's 4-Andro. Guess they took a page out of Hi-Tech's book.
Do you know what's a good 4-AD dose compared to 4-Andro?
 
Whisky

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Do you know what's a good 4-AD dose compared to 4-Andro?
it depends on what you are using it for

4-andro is basically as a base (I.e replace natural levels) while 1-andro does the work.

if I recall correctly (And it’s been a while so could be wrong) 4-ad converts about 15.76% to test and 4-andro is around 5%.

so 4-andro at 330 a day ends up roughly 115mg test a week (trt dose). You would need to triple that to get a dose where test is a player (and the cost would be ridiculous)

whereas 4-ad at a 400 per day dose ends up around 420mg test a week - a solid dose for gains.

so it’s whether it’s just there to replace natural levels and feel decent or whether you want it to play a as part in the party
 
KvanH

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it depends on what you are using it for

4-andro is basically as a base (I.e replace natural levels) while 1-andro does the work.

if I recall correctly (And it’s been a while so could be wrong) 4-ad converts about 15.76% to test and 4-andro is around 5%.

so 4-andro at 330 a day ends up roughly 115mg test a week (trt dose). You would need to triple that to get a dose where test is a player (and the cost would be ridiculous)

whereas 4-ad at a 400 per day dose ends up around 420mg test a week - a solid dose for gains.

so it’s whether it’s just there to replace natural levels and feel decent or whether you want it to play a as part in the party
About 15.76% 😀

This is good info and I'd like to add that I bet at some point the body's ability to convert these PH's to desired androgens will become a factor too. Expensiveness aside, I think it would be hard to get enough 4-Andro to be converted to test to make a equalivent cycle to that of pinning test. Maybe even with 4-AD this could become a problem 🤷‍♂️ For what it's worth, I've never heard of anyone doing a 4-AD or 4-Andro solo cycle and have great gains. So I personally think these are decent base products for other anabolics, as Whisky said. I consider the 4-AD to be a base product too, although have never used myself.

What comes to dosing, Whisky gave good theoretical stats and guidelines. Based on what I've heard, people seem to dose between 3 to 6 caps of Androtest a day, which will yield 375 - 750 mg of Cyclodextrin 4-AD complex. How much of that is actual 4-AD, I don't know, but that seems to be the preferred dosing range.
 
Ironpirate

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About 15.76% 😀

This is good info and I'd like to add that I bet at some point the body's ability to convert these PH's to desired androgens will become a factor too. Expensiveness aside, I think it would be hard to get enough 4-Andro to be converted to test to make a equalivent cycle to that of pinning test. Maybe even with 4-AD this could become a problem 🤷‍♂️ For what it's worth, I've never heard of anyone doing a 4-AD or 4-Andro solo cycle and have great gains. So I personally think these are decent base products for other anabolics, as Whisky said. I consider the 4-AD to be a base product too, although have never used myself.

What comes to dosing, Whisky gave good theoretical stats and guidelines. Based on what I've heard, people seem to dose between 3 to 6 caps of Androtest a day, which will yield 375 - 750 mg of Cyclodextrin 4-AD complex. How much of that is actual 4-AD, I don't know, but that seems to be the preferred dosing range.
Of the 125 only 25mg Is 4ad. Information given by predator if you ask.

I am going to do a 4 andro td cycle at 3 to 400 solo soon to test that theory.
 
MrFlexo

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it depends on what you are using it for

4-andro is basically as a base (I.e replace natural levels) while 1-andro does the work.

if I recall correctly (And it’s been a while so could be wrong) 4-ad converts about 15.76% to test and 4-andro is around 5%.

so 4-andro at 330 a day ends up roughly 115mg test a week (trt dose). You would need to triple that to get a dose where test is a player (and the cost would be ridiculous)

whereas 4-ad at a 400 per day dose ends up around 420mg test a week - a solid dose for gains.

so it’s whether it’s just there to replace natural levels and feel decent or whether you want it to play a as part in the party
Sorry should have added that it would just be for test base so it would be ran with another compound.
Thank you for the numbers but do you know if they are different if it’s TD instead of oral?
 
MrFlexo

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Of the 125 only 25mg Is 4ad. Information given by predator if you ask.

I am going to do a 4 andro td cycle at 3 to 400 solo soon to test that theory.
Oh wow that seems a very low amount in each cap for 4-ad. I wonder if that form is supposed to have better absorption than previous companies.
I would definitely like to know how that solo run will go and how expensive it can get if doses haven’t to be increased
 
KvanH

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Of the 125 only 25mg Is 4ad. Information given by predator if you ask.

I am going to do a 4 andro td cycle at 3 to 400 solo soon to test that theory.
That low, dang.

Will be interesting to see how you react to that td dose, keep us posted. What brand 4-Andro are you going to be using?
 
Ironpirate

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Oh wow that seems a very low amount in each cap for 4-ad. I wonder if that form is supposed to have better absorption than previous companies.
I would definitely like to know how that solo run will go and how expensive it can get if doses haven’t to be increased
If you are in the us than just use one of the sponsored companies here for 4 andro. Androtest is not worth the money.
 
KvanH

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Sorry should have added that it would just be for test base so it would be ran with another compound.
Thank you for the numbers but do you know if they are different if it’s TD instead of oral?
Td andros are typically said to be about twice as effective.
 
Whisky

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Td andros are typically said to be about twice as effective.
yeah I don’t know but have seen this said and @KvanH knows his stuff so would go with this OP.

takeaway message is get a needle in yo ass if you actually want a decent dose of test though 😃
 
Afi140

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If you are in the us than just use one of the sponsored companies here for 4 andro. Androtest is not worth the money.
Agreed. I used fusion androtest and I swear I noticed way more from two step 4-andro products. Andro the giant or iconic 4 are your best bets state side.



 

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Iconic a 4ad is a great product but pricey. Injectable Trest would be the absolute best thing that is not actual test and can be found on research sites. Yeah I know what about the sides? Dose used in studies was something like .8 mgs so say 1mg. Would blow everything else away your talking about and sides would be low. People getting sides are often running 25 to 50mgs a day.
 
cronikgains

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I'm running IML 4 andro cream and loving it. Very powerful stuff. I've been running it with epiandro, r andro and now 1 andro
 
KvanH

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How much of the 4andro per day? Once or twice per day?
The most td 4-Andro I've done is 225 mg a day. Divided to 2 doses AM and PM. Didn't notice a difference between that and 150 mg. Both worked well as a base, which was what I was using it for. (Not saying there isn't a difference, but going just by feels or performance, I didn't notice the difference)
 
Ironpirate

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The most td 4-Andro I've done is 225 mg a day. Divided to 2 doses AM and PM. Didn't notice a difference between that and 150 mg. Both worked well as a base, which was what I was using it for. (Not saying there isn't a difference, but going just by feels or performance, I didn't notice the difference)
That's good to know. I might bump it up to 5 or 600 after a few weeks. I'm not a heavy aromitizer and I don't mind spending the money so I really want to push the limits and see if I can get to the equivalent of a 350-400mg solo cycle. I might also get a bottle of caps for preworkout only.
 
cronikgains

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How much of the 4andro per day? Once or twice per day?
I have been doing 2 pumps in the AM and 2 more pumps in the evening. I can tell it's much stronger than the oral 4-andro I ran a couple years ago. So I definitely think people are right when they say it's double as strong as the orals.
 
KvanH

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That's good to know. I might bump it up to 5 or 600 after a few weeks. I'm not a heavy aromitizer and I don't mind spending the money so I really want to push the limits and see if I can get to the equivalent of a 350-400mg solo cycle. I might also get a bottle of caps for preworkout only.
I think combining td and oral is the way to go, when trying to hit high enough dose to run solo. There's only so much room for the td in the best application areas and you have to let it be absorbed and can't be applying a new dose all the time. Only so much enzymes in the skin for the best conversion ratio too.
 
cronikgains

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He had Goku in his avatar for a while and now it's back to 'questionmark' 😛
Mine was actually Vegeta haha - I was killing time at work yesterday reading the forums and went to change my avatar from the phone.. didn't like the one I picked and deleted it. will re-add now.
 
Rad83

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4-andro capsules: How important is the “liposomal delivery” vs. plain caps ?
 
AndroRage

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Of the 125 only 25mg Is 4ad. Information given by predator if you ask.

I am going to do a 4 andro td cycle at 3 to 400 solo soon to test that theory.
How did this go Bro? The 4 Andro at 300-400mg?
 
Ironpirate

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How did this go Bro? The 4 Andro at 300-400mg?
I never started that cycle. I'm on trest now. If you are going to suppress or shutdown your system then you should just use real gear
 
Bigmatt57

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Before I started pinning, AndroHard was always my favorite, felt it way more than dermacrine. Never tried 4-Andro because to get a actual efficacious dose of 4-Andro it would cost far more than the AndroHard.
 
thebigt

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i'm on trt--test level is right at 650....i had bloods done on a alpha four/ultra hard cycle and test was 1100.

theories aside, over the course of 2 months this was good enough to pack on 7lbs of very lean muscle-i do a lot of running and this was in the summer...i remember adding weight on all my lifts, i hadn't done that in quite some time-i do remember appetite being very good and eating like a horse but weight gain was visibly muscle....i felt great, libido went way up, mood was fantastic and confidence was close to being cocky. 😻

alpha four is no longer sold at iconic formulations but is sold at strong supplement store-a forum sponsor.... BUT you can save 20% off on ultra hard using code THEBIGT at iconic formulations.

i never recommend ANYTHING i haven't personally tried and had good results with-and i really had good results and enjoyed these products, i am very sad iconic doesn't sell alpha four any longer, it was one of my favorite products.
 
Afi140

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i'm on trt--test level is right at 650....i had bloods done on a alpha four/ultra hard cycle and test was 1100.

theories aside, over the course of 2 months this was good enough to pack on 7lbs of very lean muscle-i do a lot of running and this was in the summer...i remember adding weight on all my lifts, i hadn't done that in quite some time-i do remember appetite being very good and eating like a horse but weight gain was visibly muscle....i felt great, libido went way up, mood was fantastic and confidence was close to being cocky.

alpha four is no longer sold at iconic formulations but is sold at strong supplement store-a forum sponsor.... BUT you can save 20% off on ultra hard using code THEBIGT at iconic formulations.

i never recommend ANYTHING i haven't personally tried and had good results with-and i really had good results and enjoyed these products, i am very sad iconic doesn't sell alpha four any longer, it was one of my favorite products.
Great feedback. Definitely boosted your test like crazy. And yep here is the link for anyone looking to try it.

 
AndroRage

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i'm on trt--test level is right at 650....i had bloods done on a alpha four/ultra hard cycle and test was 1100.

theories aside, over the course of 2 months this was good enough to pack on 7lbs of very lean muscle-i do a lot of running and this was in the summer...i remember adding weight on all my lifts, i hadn't done that in quite some time-i do remember appetite being very good and eating like a horse but weight gain was visibly muscle....i felt great, libido went way up, mood was fantastic and confidence was close to being cocky. 😻

alpha four is no longer sold at iconic formulations but is sold at strong supplement store-a forum sponsor.... BUT you can save 20% off on ultra hard using code THEBIGT at iconic formulations.

i never recommend ANYTHING i haven't personally tried and had good results with-and i really had good results and enjoyed these products, i am very sad iconic doesn't sell alpha four any longer, it was one of my favorite products.
Strong post Bro. Really good post actually, you have convinced me to get some Alpha Four, well as second purchase so I can run 2 back to back as already have 2 Ultra Hard.

Some nice results you had. That seems like an impressive gain from transdermals, good to hear as I’ll be using these two as a base on my next run

How were you dosing them? AM and PM or both Aloha Four and Ultra Hard in the AM? I work out early AM if that’s anything to go by

Thanks!
 
thebigt

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Strong post Bro. Really good post actually, you have convinced me to get some Alpha Four, well as second purchase so I can run 2 back to back as already have 2 Ultra Hard.

Some nice results you had. That seems like an impressive gain from transdermals, good to hear as I’ll be using these two as a base on my next run

How were you dosing them? AM and PM or both Aloha Four and Ultra Hard in the AM? I work out early AM if that’s anything to go by

Thanks!
thank you :)

i dosed both in AM
 
Afi140

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Strong post Bro. Really good post actually, you have convinced me to get some Alpha Four, well as second purchase so I can run 2 back to back as already have 2 Ultra Hard.

Some nice results you had. That seems like an impressive gain from transdermals, good to hear as I’ll be using these two as a base on my next run

How were you dosing them? AM and PM or both Aloha Four and Ultra Hard in the AM? I work out early AM if that’s anything to go by

Thanks!
Good stuff bro. Let us know how it treats you
 
AndroRage

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thank you :)

i dosed both in AM
Sorry to bother you again. Did you dose one then wait for it to dry and do the other? Or apply both one after another and rub it all in?

Any help/tips appreciated Bro
 

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it depends on what you are using it for

4-andro is basically as a base (I.e replace natural levels) while 1-andro does the work.

if I recall correctly (And it’s been a while so could be wrong) 4-ad converts about 15.76% to test and 4-andro is around 5%.

so 4-andro at 330 a day ends up roughly 115mg test a week (trt dose). You would need to triple that to get a dose where test is a player (and the cost would be ridiculous)

whereas 4-ad at a 400 per day dose ends up around 420mg test a week - a solid dose for gains.

so it’s whether it’s just there to replace natural levels and feel decent or whether you want it to play a as part in the party
I actually did experiment with 4-andro at betwen 800 to 1000 mg and it did work made me go from 95 to a 100 kg in a month for the first time many years ago but yes its way too expensive at that dose
 
thebigt

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Sorry to bother you again. Did you dose one then wait for it to dry and do the other? Or apply both one after another and rub it all in?

Any help/tips appreciated Bro
alpha four on neck, shoulders, upper arms.....ultra hard on chest inner arms...i NEVER put ANY transdermal that aromatizes on my chest, and this includes dermacrine, i know plenty others who do, it's just how i roll, lol :p
 
AndroRage

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alpha four on neck, shoulders, upper arms.....ultra hard on chest inner arms...i NEVER put ANY transdermal that aromatizes on my chest, and this includes dermacrine, i know plenty others who do, it's just how i roll, lol :p
Cool thanks man!

Do you let one dry and then apply or both straight away? Sorry feel like I’m harassing you bro haha
 
AndroRage

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Iconic a 4ad is a great product but pricey. Injectable Trest would be the absolute best thing that is not actual test and can be found on research sites. Yeah I know what about the sides? Dose used in studies was something like .8 mgs so say 1mg. Would blow everything else away your talking about and sides would be low. People getting sides are often running 25 to 50mgs a day.
How was your run with Alpha Four? I’m looking to use that or Dermacrine for upcoming stack
 

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