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jrock645

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What the hell is it though? I am missing something here?
It’s an AI. The active ingredient in gaspari’s novedex xt from years ago. Now banned in the US, but it is available from Europe.
 
Old Witch

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It’s an AI. The active ingredient in gaspari’s novedex xt from years ago. Now banned in the US, but it is available from Europe.
It also lowers shbg.
 
brofessorx

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Well, for example, your Tbol is methylated. The 1,4AD and 4AD in venom are NOT methylated. Methylation in this specific instance meaning a small carbon attachment at position 17a.

Some steroids are methylated in other positions (primobolan is position 1, stenbolone position 2, MSten and superdrol both positions 2 and 17a) which might enhance absorption but does not generally add toxicity or ensure full absorption in the way 17a methylation does. Usually instead it has either an anti estrogenic or anti aromatase function. Specifically in the case of 1 and 2 methyl. 7a methyl position has also been used on bolasterone and trestolone, this enhances bioavailability significantly without enhancing toxicity to any notable degree, and also enhances attachment to the AR.
What? This is very inaccurate.
:gay:
 
brofessorx

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Atd is also pro hormone to 1,4,6-testosterone.

But it stacks great with SNS inhibit-e.
 
Kratom267

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Just a heads up...years ago, as mentioned above on another comment, gaspari’s novadex Xt originally had ATD in it...I ran a bottle and a year later got an email saying that it’s no longer available from gasapri because the main ingredient was found to cause loss of bone density...which seemed like bull at the time...a couple years later I found out that I have osteoporosis! It doesn’t run in my family either. Especially in the men. I’ve been to numerous specialists and they’ve never figured out the cause. Coincidence? Possibly. Just something to consider...
 
Kratom267

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Again, possibly a coincidence...kinda strange though!
 
ValiantThor08

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I believe every AI causes a loss in bone density. Too low of estrogen will cause a loss in bone density.
 
Kratom267

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Very possible, but not sure why Gasparis was targeted and the company issued a recall themselves, not just recalled by the fda alone
 
ValiantThor08

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Very possible, but not sure why Gasparis was targeted and the company issued a recall themselves, not just recalled by the fda alone
Not sure. But I do know the more effective a product is, the more potent it is, the more likely it will come up to be banned.
 
Kratom267

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When a product gives you osteoporosis, it’s pretty damn potent then!
 
Kratom267

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Only if you take crazy medications that come with a slew of other fun side effects...right now I’m trying the TRT route (I’ve already tried the endo medications with no real improvement)...but using TRT it’s shown that since my osteoporosis was most likely due to low testosterone and low estrogen levels (possibility caused by atd, but will never know for sure) hopefully after a year I’ll see improvement on my next scan. Most osteoporosis in young men is either from low T or also low estrogen...after I ran atd my estrogen stayed around 7 to 10...which is pretty low! Even years after atd it stayed low.
Another guy on hear went through the same thing and after a year on TRT his went from osteoporosis levels to osteopenia, which is improvement. Fingers crossed!
 
ValiantThor08

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Only if you take crazy medications that come with a slew of other fun side effects...right now I’m trying the TRT route (I’ve already tried the endo medications with no real improvement)...but using TRT it’s shown that since my osteoporosis was most likely due to low testosterone and low estrogen levels, hopefully after a year I’ll see improvement on my next scan. Most osteoporosis in young men is either from low T or also low estrogen...after I ran atd my estrogen stayed around 7 to 10...which is pretty low! Even years after atd it stayed low.
Another guy on hear went through the same thing and after a year on TRT his went from osteoporosis levels to osteopenia, which is improvement. Fingers crossed!
If it was caused by ATD, and hormonal issues, you should be able to recoup bone density. Make sure you get good calcium, magnesium, k1, k2, and sunshine; sun is much better than synthetic D.
 
Kratom267

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Yeah...I’ve tried everything. Still taking lots of vitamin d and calcium.
 
Kratom267

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Lots of specialist, etc. still unexplained on real cause. Even with fairly low t and e levels it shouldn’t have caused full on osteoporosis, from what all the doctors tell me, so for now TRT.
 
BigGame84

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Isn't the current Novedex formula basically ATD? Thought it was going to be banned but is still being sold... I tried it, and it wrecked my joints so I stopped it. It also contains arimistane would has caused me joint pain in the past.
 

jtbull

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So is atd something you get at a UK supplement shop like say epitaine or is it more "underground" sounds good though. if i take arimidex what would comprable doses of that be? Right now i take 3 1mg tabs per week. I am thinking of finding a way to cut them in half ( damn they are small) and taking .5 mg 3x per week.
 
Old Witch

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So is atd something you get at a UK supplement shop like say epitaine or is it more "underground" sounds good though. if i take arimidex what would comprable doses of that be? Right now i take 3 1mg tabs per week. I am thinking of finding a way to cut them in half ( damn they are small) and taking .5 mg 3x per week.
UK shop
 
Old Witch

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ATD can come in anything from 20-60mg capsules and taken 1-3x daily. It’s actually really strong and most products would totally crash your estrogen unless you were on a seriously highly estrogenic cycle if taken at the label dose. 20-40mg a day should be plenty. 20mg a day I’d say is fine.

Mg for mg I’d say it’s about half as strong as exemestane/aromasin. 1mg Adex is similar to about 25mg aromasin.
 

niklasericson

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So is atd something you get at a UK supplement shop like say epitaine or is it more "underground" sounds good though. if i take arimidex what would comprable doses of that be? Right now i take 3 1mg tabs per week. I am thinking of finding a way to cut them in half ( damn they are small) and taking .5 mg 3x per week.
You can buy it in UK and German shop's.
As "Old witch" says, it's very strong and can crush you estrogen so it's very important so use it at a sensible dose.
Example, if you feel symptoms of estro sides like itchy and sore nipples.
Start at 75mg/ed til the symptoms is gone, taper it down to 50mg/ed for a week or two and the last week at 25mg/ed.
 

jim2509

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Just a heads up...years ago, as mentioned above on another comment, gaspari’s novadex Xt originally had ATD in it...I ran a bottle and a year later got an email saying that it’s no longer available from gasapri because the main ingredient was found to cause loss of bone density...which seemed like bull at the time...a couple years later I found out that I have osteoporosis! It doesn’t run in my family either. Especially in the men. I’ve been to numerous specialists and they’ve never figured out the cause. Coincidence? Possibly. Just something to consider...
Holy S**t if true!! Thanks will avoid. Whats peoples opinions then on Armistane??
 
Renew1

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Holy S**t if true!! Thanks will avoid. Whats peoples opinions then on Armistane??
It was my understanding that ATD got removed because it worked. The same reason that Formestane, and steroids get banned.
 

jtbull

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It was my understanding that ATD got removed because it worked. The same reason that Formestane, and steroids get banned.
its political, but ill say it. I have to wonder all this talk about legalizing and decriminalizing weed yet none about anabolics has to make me wonder if its more pandering by one party that cant seem to win on policy but demographics.
 

Anabaholic

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its political, but ill say it. I have to wonder all this talk about legalizing and decriminalizing weed yet none about anabolics has to make me wonder if its more pandering by one party that cant seem to win on policy but demographics.
I think part of it is negative press when athletes get caught and just like is used to be with weed, the general public really doesn't have any understanding of anabolics, they think it will make anyone who touches it huge without years of commitment and most people think 'roid rage' is a lot more of a thing than it really is.
But a lot of the same arguments that were made for weed could be made for anabolics. People are going to take them anyway, no one is at risk except the user, there are potential benefits for certain disorders, and the added bonus of anabolics don't impair your ability to drive a car safely.
 
AndroRage

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ATD can come in anything from 20-60mg capsules and taken 1-3x daily. It’s actually really strong and most products would totally crash your estrogen unless you were on a seriously highly estrogenic cycle if taken at the label dose. 20-40mg a day should be plenty. 20mg a day I’d say is fine.

Mg for mg I’d say it’s about half as strong as exemestane/aromasin. 1mg Adex is similar to about 25mg aromasin.
Does ATD have any benefits when natty? Apart from being an AI? Any advantages over other OTC AI’s?
 
Matthersby

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Are all these super dmz 2.0 clones legit? I dug up a few on amazon that were rather cheap.
 

jtbull

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been researching them and i think my trt will combine dmz, epistaine, halodrol, or maybe lmg. Not sure which one. Since lmg is the only non methylated it would appear i can run it the longest, but more and more i read dmz seems the strongest.
 
Matthersby

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been researching them and i think my trt will combine dmz, epistaine, halodrol, or maybe lmg. Not sure which one. Since lmg is the only non methylated it would appear i can run it the longest, but more and more i read dmz seems the strongest.
Depends on your goals and experience with stacking orals. I’ve stacked all those multiple different ways except halo which is meh, ok but I didn’t love it. IMO:

Epi/M-LMG 50/100
DMZ/M-LMG 40/100

For a cut: Epi/halo

I’d avoid stacking DMZ with another methyl unless it’s low dosed but in my experience halo and Epi are milder on my liver enzymes. M-LMG shines stacked and if you can afford, I’d buy more and push that dosage over 100 as high as possible with possibly a little Inhibit-P and AI of choice.

You want the best oral stack, get some Msten and stack with DMZ 20/30. Best oral combo I’ve come across but I did thoroughly enjoy epi-m-lmg
 

jtbull

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Depends on your goals and experience with stacking orals. I’ve stacked all those multiple different ways except halo which is meh, ok but I didn’t love it. IMO:

Epi/M-LMG 50/100
DMZ/M-LMG 40/100

For a cut: Epi/halo

I’d avoid stacking DMZ with another methyl unless it’s low dosed but in my experience halo and Epi are milder on my liver enzymes. M-LMG shines stacked and if you can afford, I’d buy more and push that dosage over 100 as high as possible with possibly a little Inhibit-P and AI of choice.

You want the best oral stack, get some Msten and stack with DMZ 20/30. Best oral combo I’ve come across but I did thoroughly enjoy epi-m-lmg
sorry i mispoke. I was only going to stack one of those with my testosterone from trt. I was just figuring which might be best to stack with it. With lmg not being methylated i was figuring i could run it the longest.
 

JoePaul39

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How long you run your MSten/DMZ stack? What kind of gains? Any dark pee experienced?
 
Matthersby

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30 days. Exactly one bottle of super dmz 2.0 or one of its 12,000 clones. On a second run, also bought a little cheap DMZ and bulked up my Dmz dose but kept Msten at 20mg/day. It’s a bit rough on liver, lipids and BP, but you drink an absurd enough amount of water and avoid nicotine caffeine and sodium and it’s manageable.
 
Matthersby

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How long you run your MSten/DMZ stack? What kind of gains? Any dark pee experienced?
Top 3 best orals I’ve ran.
SD
Dbol
Msten/DMZ
17lbs on this 30 day run but other substances were involved but Dmz/Msten left a very good taste in my mouth.

Been itching to run that **** again. Was just on Amazon Sunday night looking for a cheap clone of it.
 

Mathb33

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How long you run your MSten/DMZ stack? What kind of gains? Any dark pee experienced?
Agressive labs dmz is gtg I’m in my 6th week at 60mgno issues at all so far, just take your on cycle support and everything will be fine. There’s much much worse than dmz
 

jtbull

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Top 3 best orals I’ve ran.
SD
Dbol
Msten/DMZ
17lbs on this 30 day run but other substances were involved but Dmz/Msten left a very good taste in my mouth.

Been itching to run that **** again. Was just on Amazon Sunday night looking for a cheap clone of it.
were you using all those or just the msten/dmz on the 17lbs cycle? Like i mentioned i am going to run one of the PH with my trt dose which is 200mg every 10 days. I know 10 days is a bit long so i probably will do 100mg every 5 days.
 
Matthersby

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were you using all those or just the msten/dmz on the 17lbs cycle? Like i mentioned i am going to run one of the PH with my trt dose which is 200mg every 10 days. I know 10 days is a bit long so i probably will do 100mg every 5 days.
About that dose as well Test Cyp and maybe 75mg/week Trest Ace. I just gain gradually on Test/Trest, a good 15lbs in that 30 days was the orals. That combo made me monkey strong. I was training and eating like clockwork. Just went through a breakup and it was keeping me sane. I smoked cigarettes and I swear I thought I was going to have an aneurysm with my BP from that and nicotine.
I was upright rowing 185 for 10 and incline pressing 250 for 10. Which for my tall lanky ass was decent at the time.
 

jtbull

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About that dose as well Test Cyp and maybe 75mg/week Trest Ace. I just gain gradually on Test/Trest, a good 15lbs in that 30 days was the orals. That combo made me monkey strong. I was training and eating like clockwork. Just went through a breakup and it was keeping me sane. I smoked cigarettes and I swear I thought I was going to have an aneurysm with my BP from that and nicotine.
I was upright rowing 175 for reps and incline pressing 250 for almost 10. Which for my tall lanky ass was decent at the time.
SD
Dbol
Msten/DMZ

so you were running all this at the same time? now the trest ace you shot once per week? Same day as the test? I have been thinking of trying it. There are pills and liquids out there as well. it seemst he pills i will have to take daily. I like a trest shot that is once per week. Is ace the way to go?
 
Matthersby

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SD
Dbol
Msten/DMZ

so you were running all this at the same time? now the trest ace you shot once per week? Same day as the test? I have been thinking of trying it. There are pills and liquids out there as well. it seemst he pills i will have to take daily. I like a trest shot that is once per week. Is ace the way to go?
If you can handle the estrogen from the oils, acetate or deconate.
Deconate would be once weekly with your test. Acetate I do EOD or MWF.
TRT is probably the only time to run Trest. I sat on 6 20ml vials for 2 years until I finally got on TRT.
 
RickyBlobby

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its political, but ill say it. I have to wonder all this talk about legalizing and decriminalizing weed yet none about anabolics has to make me wonder if its more pandering by one party that cant seem to win on policy but demographics.
It’s all politics and dirty politicians. I know many states where pot is legal, you can only grow on certain land. I’d bet my right nut that the politicians that push to legalize choose what land that is or are affiliated with it in one form or another.
 

SwoleMax

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Here is a list of designers that I have tried that I believe are still legal:
M-Sten
DMZ
m1a
Trest
NONE of those are legal . WTF is wrong with people ? Go read the law . A steroid does not have to be specifically named anymore due to the wording of the 2014 law . People keep perpetuating this lie on internet forums like this and it just keeps getting repeated as gospel . The laws lists a bunch of steroids and ends with " ....... and anything similar .... " . Which covers anything they didn't name . I myself don't think any steroids should be illegal .
 

Mathb33

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NONE of those are legal . WTF is wrong with people ? Go read the law . A steroid does not have to be specifically named anymore due to the wording of the 2014 law . People keep perpetuating this lie on internet forums like this and it just keeps getting repeated as gospel . The laws lists a bunch of steroids and ends with " ....... and anything similar .... " . Which covers anything they didn't name . I myself don't think any steroids should be illegal .
Stop taking this so personal. This is why people call it THE GREY MARKET. Because they are not BANNED even though they are not really legal EITHER. They did escape the freaking van wave or their name would be on it and they wouldn’t be sold all over the internet. GREY MARKET.
 

SwoleMax

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Stop taking this so personal. This is why people call it THE GREY MARKET. Because they are not BANNED even though they are not really legal EITHER. They did escape the freaking van wave or their name would be on it and they wouldn’t be sold all over the internet. GREY MARKET.
Not taking anything personal . Lol . WTF ??? Please point out what sentence or part of my comment that makes you think I'm taking any of this personally ? There is NO anger in anything I write either. If there is PERCEIVED anger , it's only because of the tone of voice the person whom is reading CHOOSES to read it in ........how they GUESS I would be saying it . They are ALL illegal , it's just the goverment does not have nearly enough funding for the agencies that police this stuff to hire enough people to go after and charge every single company and website selling the stuff . The stuff is not legal just because people are getting away with selling it . Lol . If we use that logic , crack and heroin are legal all over the US and all around the world . Lol . I mean , they aren't locking up every single person selling crack and heroin , tons of people are getting away with it , so therefore it must be legal by your logic . Lol . Go read the law a few hundred more times . Do I have to link you warning letters companies have received for selling DMZ , m1 alpha and others ? Why would they get warning letters if they were legal ??? People call it the grey market because they are misinformed and are just repeating what they've heard or read on the internet .
 
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