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Best endurance booster?

Dukethumper

Member
I am aware there are many supplements weather they are fat burners, anabolics, preworkout, etc. That can increase endurance. Which one of them would be able to assist in endurance in actions such as going on a run or doing high rep intervals, thanks.
 
Evomuse Cardiotryx is the best supplement I have ever used for endurance, but is very hard to find. Follidrone 2.0 and Ep1louge have also been very good.
 
Citrulline Malate
Beta-alanine (prolonged)
Cordyceps
Body Octane as a pre
I believe Top Secret Nutrition had one if they're still around
 
Dukethumper said:
I heard cardarine has some large side effects though and has not been tested much.
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I think the most common thing heard is it caused cancer in mice. What they don't mention is that the dose given to the mice would be equivalent of you taking 100x the normal dose, so take that with a grain of salt.

However, one thing that is indeed true is that SARMS are still relatively new and indeed there hasn't been a ton of research. The way I see it, for as many supps as I take, preworkouts or otherwise, I'm sure something is bound to kill me or give me cancer anyway. Everything seems to these days, right?

EDIT: Oh yeah, I've been using it for a few months now. I love the stuff personally.
 
nubioso said:
I think the most common thing heard is it caused cancer in mice. What they don't mention is that the dose given to the mice would be equivalent of you taking 100x the normal dose, so take that with a grain of salt.

However, one thing that is indeed true is that SARMS are still relatively new and indeed there hasn't been a ton of research. The way I see it, for as many supps as I take, preworkouts or otherwise, I'm sure something is bound to kill me or give me cancer anyway. Everything seems to these days, right?

EDIT: Oh yeah, I've been using it for a few months now. I love the stuff personally.
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Try not much more than what people abusing the compound take, seeing as the dosage given to the mice equates to ~67mg for humans.
 
nubioso said:
I think the most common thing heard is it caused cancer in mice. What they don't mention is that the dose given to the mice would be equivalent of you taking 100x the normal dose, so take that with a grain of salt.
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Wrong. The only dose ever to show any benefit was 5mg/kg in mice. 5mg/kg MOUSE x 3 (KM Factor Mouse) / 37 (KM Factor Human) = HED of ~0.40mg/kg. A 180lb man would need to take ~33mg to replicate the only mouse study that showed endurance improvement.

The lowest dose that caused cancer in GSK's own safety study, was in female Rats at 3mg/kg. 3mg/kg RAT x 6 (KM Factor Rat) /37 (KM Factor Human) = HED of ~0.48mg/kg, or ~39mg for our 180lb subject. Too close for me, but Big Boy Rules.

The only thing you can (fairly, IMO) say, is that the female Rats were dosed daily for 24 months.

Here is the Mouse study: Invalid Link Removed
 
jameschoi said:
baking soda if you can tolerate a boatload of it

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You can "serial load" it with good effect (don't know if that's in your link, but it's on the SuppV site for sure). Just mix up the full dose but sip it through out the day. It's a bit of a hassle though - but instead of ~$30+ a month, it's like $15 a year - with a boatload of science in athletes :D The osmotic diarrhea from a full dose (20-30g'ish) is no joke though - ~45min after you will be a fire-hose. The upside is if you ever want to weigh yourself with as little water in your body as possible... :D
 
Ah, forgot - BEETS! Yup, just a can of the vegetable should do it:

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Especially this one:

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Study
The researchers got 11 fit subjects to run a distance of 5 km on a treadmill on two occasions. On one occasion they did so 75 minutes after eating 200g cooked beets – representing 500 mg nitrate – on the other occasion they did so after eating a placebo containing the same amount of kcals but no nitrate
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For me, Beta Alanine and Cit. Malate at 2:1 ratio. I haven't used it in a long time but I want to say ephedrine might help? Can't remember.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Wrong. The only dose ever to show any benefit was 5mg/kg in mice. 5mg/kg MOUSE x 3 (KM Factor Mouse) / 37 (KM Factor Human) = HED of ~0.40mg/kg. A 180lb man would need to take ~33mg to replicate the only mouse study that showed endurance improvement.

The lowest dose that caused cancer in GSK's own safety study, was in female Rats at 3mg/kg. 3mg/kg RAT x 6 (KM Factor Rat) /37 (KM Factor Human) = HED of ~0.48mg/kg, or ~39mg for our 180lb subject. Too close for me, but Big Boy Rules.

The only thing you can (fairly, IMO) say, is that the female Rats were dosed daily for 24 months.

Here is the Mouse study: Invalid Link Removed
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Thanks for the link. Okay, so not 100x, but I still don't take 40mg. I take 10....so with it still being 400% increase over what you'd normally give yourself, I'd say that'd skew the results. So "wrong" only on the basis of taking my quote of 100x literally.
 
f4iguy said:
For me, Beta Alanine and Cit. Malate at 2:1 ratio. I haven't used it in a long time but I want to say ephedrine might help? Can't remember.
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Ephedrine causes a flight or fight response with the chemical noradrenaline . It increases energy temporarily

Stuff like beta alanine is more long term and has some nice health benefits. Any good powder will do, lots of companies sell it here . There's the delayed release which has worked for myself, didnt feel the tingles. Millennium Sport Technologies has some good stuff called Carnage Elite that has Carnosyn Beta alanine
 
nubioso said:
Thanks for the link. Okay, so not 100x, but I still don't take 40mg. I take 10....so with it still being 400% increase over what you'd normally give yourself, I'd say that'd skew the results. So "wrong" only on the basis of taking my quote of 100x literally.
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You're micro-dosing it, why do you think it does anything at that amount, if it works in humans at all?
 
Wasn’t there at least one study that showed cardarine to be an anticarcinogen?

Cancer talk aside, I have tried all of the more conservative alternatives mentioned in this thread and they simply can’t compete with the increased endurance that can be obtained with cardarine. Most notably during cardio for sure...it’s truly like a magic pill for me in that regard...amazing!
 
The_Old_Guy said:
You're micro-dosing it, why do you think it does anything at that amount, if it works in humans at all?
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Weird...I guess my post didn't go through? Anywho....why are you so convinced it doesn't work? They are currently doing testing of microdosing LSD for depression and the like, so what's wrong with microdosing?

I'm telling you from my own anecdotal experience, and sure you can chalk it up to placebo, that I've noticed a direct influence on my cardio when using cardarine. I'm not the only one to note this either. The guy above me says the same lol.
 
nubioso said:
Weird...I guess my post didn't go through? Anywho....why are you so convinced it doesn't work? They are currently doing testing of microdosing LSD for depression and the like, so what's wrong with microdosing?

I'm telling you from my own anecdotal experience, and sure you can chalk it up to placebo, that I've noticed a direct influence on my cardio when using cardarine. I'm not the only one to note this either. The guy above me says the same lol.
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LSD and a PPAR drug are not the same thing. Please don't try micro-dosing your next bottle of antibiotics. I'm not convinced it doesn't work - I'm convinced that the research scientists who did the one and only performance study on it, settled on 5mg/kg Mouse for a reason. But hey, maybe it's the first drug in history where a human can use 25% of what a Mouse needed? Did you keep Time Trial data for before 10mg/day GW use, and then during?
 
The_Old_Guy said:
LSD and a PPAR drug are not the same thing. Please don't try micro-dosing your next bottle of antibiotics. I'm not convinced it doesn't work - I'm convinced that the research scientists who did the one and only performance study on it, settled on 5mg/kg Mouse for a reason. But hey, maybe it's the first drug in history where a human can use 25% of what a Mouse needed? Did you keep Time Trial data for before 10mg/day GW use, and then during?
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You just like to be the nay saying type don't you? No kidding they aren't the same thing, neither is a mouse and a human lol. The point is, you're using a blanket statement of "You're microdosing" as if that's some valid argument for it not working. Who says 10mg shouldn't be a standard dose? It's one study where they decided to give X amount. It's new, so therefore there is no standard.

I don't need to keep time trial data, I can go by how I feel much like if you took 400mg of caffeine, I'm sure you would feel that. By your analogy, only taking 100mg of caffeine would be microdosing, but guess what, you'd still feel it.
 
nubioso said:
You just like to be the nay saying type don't you? No kidding they aren't the same thing, neither is a mouse and a human lol. The point is, you're using a blanket statement of "You're microdosing" as if that's some valid argument for it not working. Who says 10mg shouldn't be a standard dose? It's one study where they decided to give X amount. It's new, so therefore there is no standard.

I don't need to keep time trial data, I can go by how I feel much like if you took 400mg of caffeine, I'm sure you would feel that. By your analogy, only taking 100mg of caffeine would be microdosing, but guess what, you'd still feel it.
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No, I just prefer science over bro-science. There is a thing called "minimum effective dose", "therapeutic dose", "dose-response relationship" and a whole bunch of other clinical pharmacology terms that apply. There is plenty of data on Caffeine at doses even lower than 100mg, so that isn't micro-dosing - 1mg would be though.

Effects of low doses of caffeine on cognitive performance, mood and thirst in low and higher caffeine consumers.

Smit HJ, Rogers PJ.

Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2000 Oct;152(2):167-73.
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But anyway, cool man, "you could feel it". I'm actually glad you didn't use 0.40mg/kg believe it or not.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
No, I just prefer science over bro-science. There is a thing called "minimum effective dose", "therapeutic dose", "dose-response relationship" and a whole bunch of other clinical pharmacology terms that apply. There is plenty of data on Caffeine at doses even lower than 100mg, so that isn't micro-dosing - 1mg would be though.



But anyway, cool man, "you could feel it". I'm actually glad you didn't use 0.40mg/kg believe it or not.
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Well to be fair you are spitting bro-science calling the dosage "micro". Since we don't have an effective human dosage your statements are also purely speculative in nature. Mice dosage converted to human isn't always black and white, take Clenbuterol for example. This is especially true in this instance when it comes to mice vs humans PPARs
 
I've used cardarine twice now and I can run longer distances and workout harder. I used a 20mg dose. It's the best endurance drug out there. I trained to be a state trooper and day 1 of training I could barely run a mile, 3 weeks later I was just hitting the 2.5 mile mark. The stuff is incredible.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
Well to be fair you are spitting bro-science calling the dosage "micro". Since we don't have an effective human dosage your statements are also purely speculative in nature. Mice dosage converted to human isn't always black and white, take Clenbuterol for example. This is especially true in this instance when it comes to mice vs humans PPARs
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I pulled "Micro-Dosing" from the "Run, Swim, Cheat" blog posts on GW - fair enough that the technical term doesn't apply here, you are correct:

Microdosing, or micro-dosing, is a technique for studying the behaviour of drugs in humans through the administration of doses so low ("sub-therapeutic") they are unlikely to produce whole-body effects, but high enough to allow the cellular response to be studied. This is called a "Phase 0 study" and is usually conducted before clinical Phase I to predict whether a drug is viable for the next phase of testing. Human Microdosing aims to reduce the resources spent on non-viable drugs and the amount of testing done on animals.
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How about "Less than shown effective in animal study dose"? There will never be any human data on 501516.

I was aware of the HED discrepancy between rodents and people in regards to Thyroid (3,5 T2 specifically), but not PPAR. I see Supershred (Natty PPAR) isn't at 32mg/kg HED from the Rat study (200mg/kg) - is that the reason? I just skimmed PubMed but didn't find (quickly) anything on Humans needing less PPAR, you have any saved links? Time for some learn'in.
 
Voldyne said:
I have never seen any reports of somebody not responding with an increase in endurance. Users are usually more than impressed with that benefit.
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User StanleyG had this to say, he also apparently either Cycled (Bikes) or did a lot of research on cycling forums before using it:

"GW , IMO, is absolute garbage even with cancer study aside. Ive used it with and without aicar and it didnt do a damn thing. In fact on most forums where it isnt shilled so heavy like it is here it is pretty much accepted as useless for bodybuilders. Yes useless, in fact even on a forum where road cyclists are head over heels for endurance boosters they do not care for GW. Thats just is what it is so someone can chime in and say they love it and it did xyz for them all I am saying is this place is the exception not the norm when it comes to GW and one can only wonder why that is. Or one can look at GW and call it for what it is, a perhaps well marketed (if you call such tactics good marketing) yet very ineffective supplement.

I shoot things straight. I have no agenda so that allows me to be 100% honest with my input. All my input can be backed with both clinical studies as well as first hand experience. I understand as a rep you need to market your companies products. Thats all well and good but it restricts you from objectively giving input on different compounds. If your company sells it you have to post all positive things about the compound. Since I have no affiliations and no agendas I am not restricted as to my input. I think GW sucks. I think it does have some potentially undesirable maybe even dangerous sides and I do not think it is an effective compound at all. This is not me being negative it is me being honest. I have tried GW against my better judgement just so I could give it a chance and see if it is in fact effective. I tried it alone and thought it sucked. I reserved comment however as I have read that if used with aicar it is much more effective. So then I tried it with that and it still sucked. The potentially dangerous sides are backed with solid studies. The effectiveness or lack thereof is backed by my own personal experience as well as the experience of many others. It seems to me the only people that think it is good are people with an agenda that are shilling for companies that sell it."
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Then there's the "Dianabol" placebo study - which is why having research when swallowed by people is waaaaay better.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
User StanleyG had this to say, he also apparently either Cycled (Bikes) or did a lot of research on cycling forums before using it:



Then there's the "Dianabol" placebo study - which is why having research when swallowed by people is waaaaay better.
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Thanks for sharing that as I have never seen reports of such poor experiences. Honestly, he seems to be overly biased though, and obtaining a legit source is always key.

I think you should try it...you seem very interested in it:) I get the sense this will never happen given your concerns with the cancer studies, but you can’t knock a product until you try it for yourself. I think you would love it!

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Robert5891 said:
Beta Alanine
PeakO2
Citrulline (Citrulline Malate)
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Those are my three as well. I have recently switched non stim pre workouts and the one I am using has both CM and BA. I add a little more BA to get 3 grams. My first couple of workouts with it, my intra set recovery time has decreased a lot. I do not need to rest nearly as long and I do not feel the lactic acid building up as much as I normally would. I also really enjoy PeakO2. Grab some Xtend Perform to see it in action!
 
KSM 66 extract ashwaganda at 500 to 750 mgs is quite profound increase in cardiovascular aerobic endurance! Better than peak 02 in my experience.
 
dvw said:
KSM 66 extract ashwaganda at 500 to 750 mgs is quite profound increase in cardiovascular aerobic endurance! Better than peak 02 in my experience.
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Very true.

Withania somnifera may therefore be useful for generalized weakness and to improve speed and lower limb muscular strength and neuro-muscular co-ordination. Terminalia arjuna may prove useful to improve cardio-vascular endurance and lowering systolic blood pressure. Both drugs appear to be safe for young adults when given for mentioned dosage and duration.
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There was significant improvement in the experimental group in all parameters, whereas the placebo group did not show any change with respect to their baseline parameters. There was significant improvement in the experimental group in all parameters, namely, VO2 max (t = 5.356; P < 0.001), METS (t = 4.483; P < 0.001), and time for exhaustion on treadmill (t = 4.813; P < 0.001) in comparison to the placebo group which did not show any change with respect to their baseline parameters.
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