Best Bulking Split for Naturally gaining mass

[drejb]

Hey guys

I'm finishing up my 4th week of Westside for Skinny Bastards (a program developed by Louis Simmons of west side. Consists of upper body max, lower body max, upper body reps (hypertrophy))

This program focused on gaining strength and muscle via hypertrophy simultaneously.

I have so far added about 15 lbs to my bench, 30lbs to my squat and 25lbs to my deadlift in 4 weeks while going from 195-200lb total body weight

I want to start more of a traditional bodybuilding routine for 4 weeks that strictly focuses on hypertrophy.

What should my splits look like?

Is a 5 day split, 1 bodpart per day too much for a natural athlete?

Or would I see better results with A push pull style regimen?

Where will I see best results?

 

[sespress]

Hey guys

I'm finishing up my 4th week of Westside for Skinny Bastards (a program developed by Louis Simmons of west side. Consists of upper body max, lower body max, upper body reps (hypertrophy))

This program focused on gaining strength and muscle via hypertrophy simultaneously.

I have so far added about 15 lbs to my bench, 30lbs to my squat and 25lbs to my deadlift in 4 weeks while going from 195-200lb total body weight

I want to start more of a traditional bodybuilding routine for 4 weeks that strictly focuses on hypertrophy.

What should my splits look like?

Is a 5 day split, 1 bodpart per day too much for a natural athlete?

Or would I see better results with A push pull style regimen?

Where will I see best results?

There's the HST program (hypertrophy specify training) http://hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html

Not sure if that's exactly what you were looking for but check out there site if you've not seen it before. I don't have the time in my work schedule 3 days x 13 hours, so the 4th day is just recovery from work and never a good workout, but it comes highly recommended by a lot of people

 

[justhere4comm]

That looks interesting.

Right now I'm doing a 3 on 1 off.

Chest / Arms
Legs
Back / Shoulders
Off
Repeat

It is contrary to the posted program though.

High Volume incorporating various pyramid, inverted pyramid and combination for confusion sake.

See my logs.
On mobile so I can post links later.

 

[sespress]

I'm doing a push pull, with my Sunday night alternating one week legs the other week shoulders. That's the first night I have off after working the 3*13 hours overnight. So the gym closes early AND I'm beat. But while I'm at work I do push-ups and crunches, lunges and a light squat with body weight. Sometimes i hold a network switch or server 1U or if I'm ambitious 2U (30-70lbs) overhead. So far I'm doing good with it. Just so long as I keep moving continue to work out this way it's all gravy.

 

[sespress]

But what I'm doing is mad adapted of course. Monday-Wednesday I do chest and Tri, back and bi, and legs OR shoulders, depending on which I did Monday.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

Legs and calves

Chest shoulders tris abs

Back biceps forearms



For mass focus on more compound work, and for hypertrophy focus on a 8-12 rep range. This could be done 3 days a week with a rest day between each workout or 3 days with a rest day after, then repeat.

 

[Tomahawk88]

I just started doing this push pull routine. Not using it to bulk though.

https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-best-damn-workout-plan-for-natural-lifters

 

[drejb]

I just started doing this push pull routine. Not using it to bulk though.

https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-best-damn-workout-plan-for-natural-lifters

Interesting

 

[sespress]

Legs and calves

Chest shoulders tris abs

Back biceps forearms



For mass focus on more compound work, and for hypertrophy focus on a 8-12 rep range. This could be done 3 days a week with a rest day between each workout or 3 days with a rest day after, then repeat.

I'm not familiar with what you mean by compound work. Does this refer to stacking up exercises on the same group? Like curls, then hammer curls, then a row?

 

[jswain34]

I'm not familiar with what you mean by compound work. Does this refer to stacking up exercises on the same group? Like curls, then hammer curls, then a row?

Compound work (ie: compound exercises) are multijoint movements. Examples: Squats and variations, deadlifts and variations, bench, overhead press, cleans, snatches, pullups, dips, etc. These utilize more total body muscle than isolation movements (due to them acting on 2+ joints) and therefore should be (barring injury restrictions) used as the foundation of one's training program.

 

[7eman7]

Any split which allows each muscle group to be hit 2-3x per week is optimal for a natural. Focus on frequency and stick to low-moderate volume each workout.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

Any split which allows each muscle group to be hit 2-3x per week is optimal for a natural. Focus on frequency and stick to low-moderate volume each workout.

In line with this train of thought I would also consider full body workouts, every other day, allowing for rest and recovery. As a natural 3-4 days a week is petfect

 

[drejb]

Any split which allows each muscle group to be hit 2-3x per week is optimal for a natural. Focus on frequency and stick to low-moderate volume each workout.

What set / rep range do you consider low volume? I like the idea of this

Any recommendation on splitting up body parts to make this work without doing full body? (I like my squats bench and deadlifts and I feel doing all of these on the same day wild require too much expendable energy)

 

[7eman7]

What set / rep range do you consider low volume? I like the idea of this

Any recommendation on splitting up body parts to make this work without doing full body? (I like my squats bench and deadlifts and I feel doing all of these on the same day wild require too much expendable energy)

I'd stick to 2-3 sets and 3-4 exercises for larger muscle groups and 1-2 sets with 1-2 exercises for smaller muscle groups.

My personal favorite split is push/pull/legs/rest/repeat... its a very well balanced program i highly reccomend it.

 

[drejb]

I'd stick to 2-3 sets and 3-4 exercises for larger muscle groups and 1-2 sets with 1-2 exercises for smaller muscle groups.

My personal favorite split is push/pull/legs/rest/repeat... its a very well balanced program i highly reccomend it.

And this provides ample recovery time for a natural athlete, while stimulating the CNS and muscles enough to stay relatively anabolic im assuming?

 

[7eman7]

And this provides ample recovery time for a natural athlete, while stimulating the CNS and muscles enough to stay relatively anabolic im assuming?

Yup as long as you keep the volume low-moderate each workout should be fine. But everyone has different recovery times so If you feel you need more recovery you can always switch it to 2 days on 1 day off repeat. So you would do push/pull/rest/legs/push/rest etc...

 

[drejb]

Yup as long as you keep the volume low-moderate each workout should be fine. But everyone has different recovery times so If you feel you need more recovery you can always switch it to 2 days on 1 day off repeat. So you would do push/pull/rest/legs/push/rest etc...

Awesome man! Gonna give this a shot. Appreciate it!

 

[7eman7]

Awesome man! Gonna give this a shot. Appreciate it!

No problemo brotha you will definitely see some nice gains on that program assuming diet and sleep are in check ?

 

[LDubs]

I have had some of my best results by dropping daily volume and increasing weekly frequency while using a push-pull split. It was hard dropping daily volume at first because I was someone who really likes to train with high volume but doing so just isn't as effective for me. It took a while to figure that out.

 

[drejb]

I have had some of my best results by dropping daily volume and increasing weekly frequency while using a push-pull split. It was hard dropping daily volume at first because I was someone who really likes to train with high volume but doing so just isn't as effective for me. It took a while to figure that out.

What does your volume look like per day? Can you give an example of what a typical day looks like?

Cheers

 

[jswain34]

What does your volume look like per day? Can you give an example of what a typical day looks like?

Cheers

Take your usual daily volume and spread it out over the course of X # of days you want to lift. Say you want to train 4x a week, spread your usual daily volume out amongs the 4 days. So you usually do 16 sets of pressing in a pressing workout, now you do 4 sets of pressing across 4 days that you lift.

 

[Tomahawk88]

I have had some of my best results by dropping daily volume and increasing weekly frequency while using a push-pull split. It was hard dropping daily volume at first because I was someone who really likes to train with high volume but doing so just isn't as effective for me. It took a while to figure that out.

Do you do something similar to the article I posted by Thib?

While I am trying to cut right now I am noticing it is hard to get my weight to go down doing this kind of workout. But I think it is because I am adding muscle. I can see visible changes that indicate fat loss and muscle gain. I am "transforming" fat into muscle as a buddy likes to say lol.

 

[ryane87]

What worked best for me personally is 5 day body part split. Quad dominant (squats definitely involve more than just thighs) Monday, Tuesday Chest (which also involves lats, shoulders, and tris to a certain degree), back directly on Wednesday (also involved on Mondays and Tuesdays indirectly/directly if that makes sense), shoulders and tris Thursday (chest again as I normally do some close-grip benching this day), and Friday is hamstring dominant (normally involving deadlifts, which is another total body exercise). I think if I had more time I would like to experiment with PPL 3 on 1 off. I am also considering trying DC training and a 4 day a week push/pull split....so many possibilities

 

[ma70]

Best bulking split? It's the one you have time for, and the one you will most likely stick to and work hard with. Otherwise, there's many approaches that I've tried over the years, and honestly, without a doubt, high frequency, high intensity, and low volume is the best I have used. Working muscles two-three times a week and working out 5-6 days a week. The thing is though, just because it works for me does not mean it will work for you. I recall that you said you have been working out for over 10 years (in one of your anabolic threads). You should definitely know what your body reacts to the best, and more importantly, you should probably be doing a program specific to you instead of these cookie cutter programs (like "5x5"). Every good training program has the same principles if you study them enough, you just need to apply them to your schedule/time limits/psychological profile.

 

[drejb]

Best bulking split? It's the one you have time for, and the one you will most likely stick to and work hard with. Otherwise, there's many approaches that I've tried over the years, and honestly, without a doubt, high frequency, high intensity, and low volume is the best I have used. Working muscles two-three times a week and working out 5-6 days a week. The thing is though, just because it works for me does not mean it will work for you. I recall that you said you have been working out for over 10 years (in one of your anabolic threads). You should definitely know what your body reacts to the best, and more importantly, you should probably be doing a program specific to you instead of these cookie cutter programs (like "5x5"). Every good training program has the same principles if you study them enough, you just need to apply them to your schedule/time limits/psychological profile.

I mainly just wanted to see what everyone's doing. The industry is consistently changing and people are finding new tricks on an annual basis. Bodybuilding today isn't the same as it was 10 years ago or even 5 years ago. With something that changes so rapidly, new methods are always being found to improve just like anything else. Which is why I was mainly curious what people were doing today for programming. I've been strictly training for strength and power the past 5 years with barely any hypertrophy involved. And last time I trained hypertrophy people were saying that working out 5 days a week for 10 sets of 10 per body part each workout was the sht to get you huge.

Just like keeping informed that's all.

Appreciate the response

 

[ybg]

Given the chance i will ask a quick question here.
Do you guys think that doing the four basic lifts, 3 times per week for 5x5 is too much? Do i need to decrease sets?
Sometimes i feel that my gains are not equal to the effort i put in the gym. Strength wise i can't complain but i can't say i'm the strongest either.

 

[InItForGainz]

I think I've tried nearly all of the different training systems and styles over the years, each for varied amounts of times and trials. Having a natural Skinny-Fat body that refuses to grow sucks.
The ones I've had best results with are
5x5
6x6
8x8 (Vince Gironda)
10x10 (GVT) Really helpful on main lifts during a cut.

 

[drejb]

Given the chance i will ask a quick question here.
Do you guys think that doing the four basic lifts, 3 times per week for 5x5 is too much? Do i need to decrease sets?
Sometimes i feel that my gains are not equal to the effort i put in the gym. Strength wise i can't complain but i can't say i'm the strongest either.

When I'm doing 5x5 I usually do it 3-4 times a week.

I would do the main movement 5x5 with 2 accessory lifts following.

Example:

Monday - chest / tris

Bench press 5x5

Incline dumbbell 3x8-10

Decline dumbbell press or flies 3x8-10

Followed by 2 tricep movements for 3x10-12


Wednesday - legs / shoulders

Squat - 5x5

Alternate lunges 3x10

RDL 3x10

Arnold press 4x8

Lateral raise 3x10-12

Bent lateral raise 3x10-12


Friday - back bis

Deadlift or rack pulls 5x5

Wide grip pull down 3x8-10

Seated row 3x8-10

2 bicep movements 3x10-12


I see good results with this

 

[ybg]

Nice, i'll try this and see how it works for me. Thank you!

 

[NewAgeMayan]

My 2c...train with as much frequency as your recovery will tolerate. Some variation of push/pull is usually a good place to start and can be filled out numerous ways. I generally dislike talking in absolutes but...bodybuilder 5-day splits suck.

 

[ma70]

My 2c...train with as much frequency as your recovery will tolerate. Some variation of push/pull is usually a good place to start and can be filled out numerous ways. I generally dislike talking in absolutes but...bodybuilder 5-day splits suck.

Honestly, the only time I'd recommend bro splits is if you are SUPER strong, and I'm talking 800 lb deadlift strong, that doing more than once a week frequency on muscles would probably blast you. Or maybe if you're just older and can't recover from high frequency.

 

[ryane87]

Honestly, the only time I'd recommend bro splits is if you are SUPER strong, and I'm talking 800 lb deadlift strong, that doing more than once a week frequency on muscles would probably blast you. Or maybe if you're just older and can't recover from high frequency.

I tend to agree with the extra frequency, but it may not work for everyone. In my case, when I first started training, it was 4 days a week. I made some small newb improvements, but I took off on a 4 day a week bro split. 27 lbs my first year. Put on 42 lbs total in 2 years or so. So it CAN work, just not optimal for everyone

To clarify, my first 4 day split was chest, shoulders, tris twice a week and legs, back, bis twice a week. Didn't really know what the hell I was doing....lol

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Honestly, the only time I'd recommend bro splits is if you are SUPER strong, and I'm talking 800 lb deadlift strong, that doing more than once a week frequency on muscles would probably blast you. Or maybe if you're just older and can't recover from high frequency.

Oh sure; I imagine powerlifters who are the top end of intermediate level and above could not tolerate high frequency bouts as the basis for their progressive overload.

Interesting thing is, though, alot of the up-and-coming pro bbers (especially physique and "natty" feds) are moving away from traditional bro-splits. Protocols similiar to PHAT and 531 templates are becoming favoured.

 

[ryane87]

Oh sure; I imagine powerlifters who are the top end of intermediate level and above could not tolerate high frequency bouts as the basis for their progressive overload.

Interesting thing is, though, alot of the up-and-coming pro bbers (especially physique and "natty" feds) are moving away from traditional bro-splits. Protocols similiar to PHAT and 531 templates are becoming favoured.

PHAT I am definitely interested in trying for a bit as well

 

[NewAgeMayan]

PHAT I am definitely interested in trying for a bit as well

The basic core of the program can be filled out in numerous ways, its really user-friendly in that respect.