Been out of the "prohormone" game forever. Need advice

[Carnivorecon]

Well this thread suddenly made me not want to try getting that Havoc they have on the website haha... Probably still will though, I loved that stuff, and I've wasted more money on dumber things

Fwiw I've had their havoc, 2 odd yrs ago, it was actually a great product, i gained about 8 lean lbs and good vascularity. It killed my joints and nipples though!

 

[Hyde]

Fwiw I've had their havoc, 2 odd yrs ago, it was actually a great product, i gained about 8 lean lbs and good vascularity. It killed my joints and nipples though!

If it killed the joints it was probably epi, but what do you mean it killed your nips?

 

[FloridaMan]

If it killed the joints it was probably epi, but what do you mean it killed your nips?

Idk about him, but I've gotten spicy nips from too low of estrogen before lol

 

[Hyde]

Idk about him, but I've gotten spicy nips from too low of estrogen before lol

The only time I ever had tanked estrogen was when I bombed some gyno with letro. Nothing had any feeling: my nips, my pecker, my joints

 

[FloridaMan]

The only time I ever had tanked estrogen was when I bombed some gyno with letro. Nothing had any feeling: my nips, my pecker, my joints

Oh God, letro is the devil haha I was trying to kill some gyno with it while on accurate and I wanted to die. 0/10 would recommend

 

[Marne40]

I ran Pred’s Havoc at the beginning of the year and it felt just like the original. It smelled like the original as well. Decent strength gain, muscle hardness, vascularity; all what you’d expect. Even got some dry joints. It’s more expensive than some others on the market, but I’d say it is legit. I’m currently running Brawn’s version on top of TRT for a very short mini cut (little damage control after the holidays). It’s too early to tell, but I’m a little suspicious.

 

[FloridaMan]

I ran Pred’s Havoc at the beginning of the year and it felt just like the original. It smelled like the original as well. Decent strength gain, muscle hardness, vascularity; all what you’d expect. Even got some dry joints. It’s more expensive than some others on the market, but I’d say it is legit. I’m currently running Brawn’s version on top of TRT for a very short mini cut (little damage control after the holidays). It’s too early to tell, but I’m a little suspicious.

Well that's good news, and the closest date for a purchase so far. Keep us posted on Brawn too, that'd be annoying as hell if it was bunk

 

[Carnivorecon]

If it killed the joints it was probably epi, but what do you mean it killed your nips?

Like @FloridaMan i get aggravated nips from low E just as bad as high E, they're so freakin sensitive they work as early warning device for anything hormonal being off

 

[Ninjo]

I ran Pred’s Havoc at the beginning of the year and it felt just like the original. It smelled like the original as well. Decent strength gain, muscle hardness, vascularity; all what you’d expect. Even got some dry joints. It’s more expensive than some others on the market, but I’d say it is legit. I’m currently running Brawn’s version on top of TRT for a very short mini cut (little damage control after the holidays). It’s too early to tell, but I’m a little suspicious.

Damn, this reminded me that I have some leftover Havoc that expires soon....was gonna run NPP on my next blast but I'm thinking I may need to use up the Havoc....I have 140 caps which is enough to run 40mg for 5 weeks....thoughts regarding doing so along with 500mg test cyp per week??

 

[Marne40]

Damn, this reminded me that I have some leftover Havoc that expires soon....was gonna run NPP on my next blast but I'm thinking I may need to use up the Havoc....I have 140 caps which is enough to run 40mg for 5 weeks....thoughts regarding doing so along with 500mg test cyp per week??

Not sure how well you tolerate epistane, but 40mg for a few weeks is fine for some folks. I personally stick with 30mg for 5 or 6 weeks. I’ve found that, for me, 40mg just increases sides and provides no benefits, and I just don’t like running orals any longer than a few weeks. I’m also an older dude and tend to keep things moderate, so some guys may disagree.

 

[Hyde]

Damn, this reminded me that I have some leftover Havoc that expires soon....was gonna run NPP on my next blast but I'm thinking I may need to use up the Havoc....I have 140 caps which is enough to run 40mg for 5 weeks....thoughts regarding doing so along with 500mg test cyp per week??

Sounds perfect to me. I have used up to 80mg, but 60mg was max returns and 40mg was best bang for buck/results vs sides.

 

[Hyde]

Damn, this reminded me that I have some leftover Havoc that expires soon....was gonna run NPP on my next blast but I'm thinking I may need to use up the Havoc....I have 140 caps which is enough to run 40mg for 5 weeks....thoughts regarding doing so along with 500mg test cyp per week??

Sounds perfect to me. I have used up to 80mg, but 60mg was max returns and 40mg was best bang for buck/results vs sides.

 

[Ninjo]

Not sure how well you tolerate epistane, but 40mg for a few weeks is fine for some folks. I personally stick with 30mg for 5 or 6 weeks. I’ve found that, for me, 40mg just increases sides and provides no benefits, and I just don’t like running orals any longer than a few weeks. I’m also an older dude and tend to keep things moderate, so some guys may disagree.

I’m older as well, 51 to be precise...i’ve run epi previously at 40mg and didn’t experience any sides (that I could feel anyways)....i’ll use Cycle Assist and TUDCA throughout....honestly wasn’t even really looking to run an oral this time around for my blast but found some Havoc that I should probably make use of....this may be it for orals for me though...think next time I blast (perhaps in the fall), I’ll run something like NPP alongside my test cyp...for this cycle, I’d be happy with a 5 to 10 lb. gain while staying reasonably lean...gonna run 500 mg test for 10 weeks total to solidify gains....then back to my trt dose of 200mg/wk

 

[Ninjo]

Sounds perfect to me. I have used up to 80mg, but 60mg was max returns and 40mg was best bang for buck/results vs sides.

I’ve never gone higher than 40mg but I’m not a particularly huge guy at 5’8” and 177 lbs....can’t imagine what 80 would feel like ....were you running test or anything else alongside it?

 

[Hyde]

I’ve never gone higher than 40mg but I’m not a particularly huge guy at 5’8” and 177 lbs....can’t imagine what 80 would feel like ....were you running test or anything else alongside it?

No I was 23 and just using a bunch of 4 & 19 andro with it. I remember weighing a chunky 207lbs at 5’10”. Like I said, no need to go that high - I feel 40mg is the optimal dose and 5 weeks as well.

I also will say that I tried using Epistane at just 30mg in a stack 3 years ago when I was 27, just 4 years later, and I had to drop it after 2-3 weeks because my joints couldn’t take it. So that goes back to age making things harsher as was mentioned. No shame in starting at 30mg and saving the rest or throwing it away if you have extra when you are done. It’s already paid for and you don’t get any awards for suffering.

I will say that that time was an intersection where I was starting to get legitimately strong by most standards but didn’t understand anything about tissue work, mobility, prehab, movement prep. So I may be able to take it now stacked with the right stuff and taking care of my body better.

 

[Carnivorecon]

Damn, this reminded me that I have some leftover Havoc that expires soon....was gonna run NPP on my next blast but I'm thinking I may need to use up the Havoc....I have 140 caps which is enough to run 40mg for 5 weeks....thoughts regarding doing so along with 500mg test cyp per week??

44 on swole says it degrades into pheraplex, no idea if thats even possible or not but i wouldn't worry about expiry dates too much

 

[Ninjo]

I've heard the degradation to PP thing before but I've also read that it isn't true and/or possible....it's an interesting theory though

 

[wfreiling]

I've heard the degradation to PP thing before but I've also read that it isn't true and/or possible....it's an interesting theory though

The epistane I have and have ran is the first batch, expired in 2010? It is still very much epistane and nothing at all like phera

 

[KvanH]

44 on swole says it degrades into pheraplex, no idea if thats even possible or not but i wouldn't worry about expiry dates too much

The powder in capsules dries with time is all I can think off, but degrading to any known ped sounds like a text book broscience

I share the same opinion on expiry dates and think it's usually just a date that the manufacturer/seller has to put on the package and they just draw from the hat basically. I wouldn't worry too much about the expiry date eiher

 

[Renew1]

The powder in capsules dries with time is all I can think off, but degrading to any known ped sounds like a text book broscience

I share the same opinion on expiry dates and think it's usually just a date that the manufacturer/seller has to put on the package and they just draw from the hat basically. I wouldn't worry too much about the expiry date eiher

I only worry about what I see, smell, and even taste in front of me, not about the dates too much.

I've see pharmaceuticals (not Anabolics) that were 25 years out of date, and were at least as strong as when they were manufactured.

But then I've seen others that were still in date, but exposed to moisture/heat, and turned into some form of poison.

I always look at, and smell everything before I use it, but especially if something is older, because it has had more of an opportunity to be exposed to things it shouldn't.

 

[Ninjo]

I only worry about what I see, smell, and even taste in front of me, not about the dates too much.

I've see pharmaceuticals (not Anabolics) that were 25 years out of date, and we're at least as strong as when they were manufactured.

But then I've seen others that were still in date, but exposed to moisture/heat, and turned into some form of poison.

I always look at, and smell everything before I use it, but especially if something is older, because it has had more if an opportunity to be exposed to things it shouldn't.

Havoc/epi has a pretty strong sulphur smell to it (can’t remember why exactly) so if you’re getting that type of scent, I’d say you’re gtg!

 

[Renew1]

Havoc/epi has a pretty strong sulphur smell to it (can’t remember why exactly) so if you’re getting that type of scent, I’d say you’re gtg!

Should be!

 

[Marne40]

I only worry about what I see, smell, and even taste in front of me, not about the dates too much.

I've see pharmaceuticals (not Anabolics) that were 25 years out of date, and were at least as strong as when they were manufactured.

But then I've seen others that were still in date, but exposed to moisture/heat, and turned into some form of poison.

I always look at, and smell everything before I use it, but especially if something is older, because it has had more of an opportunity to be exposed to things it shouldn't.

I only worry about what I see, smell, and even taste in front of me, not about the dates too much.

I've see pharmaceuticals (not Anabolics) that were 25 years out of date, and were at least as strong as when they were manufactured.

But then I've seen others that were still in date, but exposed to moisture/heat, and turned into some form of poison.

I always look at, and smell everything before I use it, but especially if something is older, because it has had more of an opportunity to be exposed to things it shouldn't.

I totally agree and sniff the hell out of every supplement or pill in general. Obviously some smell like sh!t, but it’s a way to kind of put your mind at ease regarding the legitimacy of a product. Especially with epistane and the sulfur smell. That’s one of the reasons I’m questioning Brawn’s epi. It has no smell at all compared to every other brand I’ve used, either recently or when it first came out.

 

[Tomtom9393]

I’ve just bought another course of radian nutrition superdrol. Took it spring last year for 3 weeks at 30ed.

seemed legit got huge pumps and cramps you’d associate with SD. However, read a lot about it being bunk in 2019 so now thinking maybe it was in my head.

did put on a lot of mass but was on a see it and eat it diet.

started my new course a few days ago weighing at 13 stone 8 at 6ft so will give the verdict in a few weeks. Hard to tell strength as using resistance bands and running high rep workouts.

 

[Hyde]

I’ve just bought another course of radian nutrition superdrol. Took it spring last year for 3 weeks at 30ed.

seemed legit got huge pumps and cramps you’d associate with SD. However, read a lot about it being bunk in 2019 so now thinking maybe it was in my head.

did put on a lot of mass but was on a see it and eat it diet.

started my new course a few days ago weighing at 13 stone 8 at 6ft so will give the verdict in a few weeks. Hard to tell strength as using resistance bands and running high rep workouts.

You’re running Superdrol doing only home band workouts?

 

[Carnivorecon]

I’ve just bought another course of radian nutrition superdrol. Took it spring last year for 3 weeks at 30ed.

seemed legit got huge pumps and cramps you’d associate with SD. However, read a lot about it being bunk in 2019 so now thinking maybe it was in my head.

did put on a lot of mass but was on a see it and eat it diet.

started my new course a few days ago weighing at 13 stone 8 at 6ft so will give the verdict in a few weeks. Hard to tell strength as using resistance bands and running high rep workouts.

Radian bunk sd victim right here, interested to if they got it sorted yet

 

[Jinsun]

You’re running Superdrol doing only home band workouts?

You can do a lot with only bands and body weight though.

Even just pushups, you can do them really correctly, slow, having a one second pause at the bottom, elevated legs, etc., and you'll do only 30 in one set.

 

[Renew1]

You can do a lot with only bands and body weight though.

Even just pushups, you can do them really correctly, slow, having a one second pause at the bottom, elevated legs, etc., and you'll do only 30 in one set.

I ran into a truck driver years ago who only did push-ups, pull-ups, etc ....
He was pretty darn Jacked!

... And he didn't use any gear.

 

[Hyde]

You can do a lot with only bands and body weight though.

Even just pushups, you can do them really correctly, slow, having a one second pause at the bottom, elevated legs, etc., and you'll do only 30 in one set.

Yep, seems like a great time to take full advantage of one of the most potent orals in existence.

 

[Rad83]

Yep, seems like a great time to take full advantage of one of the most potent orals in existence.

Couldn’t agree more!

 

[Jinsun]

Yep, seems like a great time to take full advantage of one of the most potent orals in existence.

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't do it either. Just sayin ...