ATD no longer popular?
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Nolbandet102
Member
Atd can drive estrogen too low, and is also an anti-androgen. This causes people to have low libido. Some people also blame it for alot of the rebound gyno problems in the last few years, but that has not been proven.
lennoxchi
Well-known member
there has been much talk on this board lately about not even using an AI in PCT. also some have suggested to run your AI after your SERM only. my personal opinion on AI use is after the SERM, at a low dose for a couple of weeks to prevent rebound. i am currently using a 6-bromo product at a low dose, then decreasing over the course of 3 weeks total. currently, i am not experiencing any gyno issues, or libido issues, actually libido is high right now...
The_Reverend
Active member
That is also what works for me. Good post.
ari4216
Banned
where did you find out that it has anti-androgen properties?
just wondering you source
i believe u though
Nolbandet102
Member
There is a pretty detailed article about the anti-androgen properties of ATD in the hypothalamus over at bb.com. There are also all kinds of posts about it on this board. The debate is on the degree that this effects mass and strength development. It makes sense though that even a small degree of this activity could effect libido regardless of its effect on anabolism.
ozarkaBRAND
Well-known member
Anti-androgen? That study was done in rats at insanely high doses. Like, half a bottle of ATD a day dosages. I don't believe it's quite applicable when it comes to pct purposes.
Nolbandet102
Member
Im not familiar with that study. I was first exposed to the anti-androgen idea on several threads on here over the past year or so. My main reference for saying it was an anti-androgen was a write up by Author L. Rea I believe. Not trying to misled but I haven't seen anything to the contrary.
ozarkaBRAND
Well-known member
ozarkaBRAND
Well-known member
here's the thread with the study
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Nolbandet102
Member
Yea I agree with you not the best source in the world. I also see what your saying about dosage now. I was not aware of that information, but it still worries me a bit. Any anti androgen activity during PCT seems detrimental. To me ATD is a very effective AI, but maybe not the best PCT choice for compounds that don't convert to estro at a high rate.
ari4216
Banned
yeah for sure i wouldnt use atd for a pct if a did a cycle(have not)
but i have conflicting results when i take atd just plain
at below 25, usuall 12.5 doses, i reported stregth loss but sometime i get stregth gains. even when i take the same dose
its hard to analyze unless someone did a good study
but i have conflicting results when i take atd just plain
at below 25, usuall 12.5 doses, i reported stregth loss but sometime i get stregth gains. even when i take the same dose
its hard to analyze unless someone did a good study
crazyfool405
Banned
what it does is supposedly displace testosterone,
so it wont bind to the AR, so any increase in natural testosterone wont bind to the AR which means it wont build muscle.,
also there is an article on anabolicX dot com about it, and Dr D talks about it in detail.
i think its really HIGH doses you need to worry about, so i would say anything >45-50 mg would cause some sort of problemm but im no expert on that.
so it wont bind to the AR, so any increase in natural testosterone wont bind to the AR which means it wont build muscle.,
also there is an article on anabolicX dot com about it, and Dr D talks about it in detail.
i think its really HIGH doses you need to worry about, so i would say anything >45-50 mg would cause some sort of problemm but im no expert on that.