Ask the brofessor your ph/aas/pct questions

[thatonekid]

What would the dosages on IM'ed 1-andro, 4-andro, and Epi be? (Yes, im going to attempt to make prohormone suspensions)

 

[brofessorx]

Im pro hormones?

Well, who knows. Start at 50mg/ml, 1ml each day, and see how well that works.

To really get that info, you would have to take the rat data on it, if you can find it, then do the needed conversions to humans, and then make your concoction.

 

[thatonekid]

Been looking, haven't been able to come across said data yet. I was thinking of starting with that dose as well. Would i suspend it just like you would test? ~4% Benzyl alcohol and carrier oil?

 

[rtmilburn]

What would the dosages on IM'ed 1-andro, 4-andro, and Epi be? (Yes, im going to attempt to make prohormone suspensions)

Ya I'm kinda curious about why this hasn't been done already? With 1ad and 4ad people injected that sh!t all the time, hell there were products meant for injects(not powder but already in vials and everything). People should be making a bulk powders with an ester attached meant to be injected.

 

[brofessorx]

Been looking, haven't been able to come across said data yet. I was thinking of starting with that dose as well. Would i suspend it just like you would test? ~4% Benzyl alcohol and carrier oil?

Said data can be found in the references in Julius vida's anabolic androgenic agents.

I've never made my own injectables, I'm too chicken and lazy.

 

[thebigt]

been real busy I had some medical issues so I'm just concentrating on bringing some of my clients. I got two competing competing one next Saturday and the other in 4 weeks.

hope everything is well now!!!

 

[TexasLifter89]

Ya I'm kinda curious about why this hasn't been done already? With 1ad and 4ad people injected that sh!t all the time, hell there were products meant for injects(not powder but already in vials and everything). People should be making a bulk powders with an ester attached meant to be injected.

It has been done by people, just not to the open market. By selling something meant for injection on the public market one is just asking for legal issues. That's why you don't see it on the public market

 

[rtmilburn]

It has been done by people, just not to the open market. By selling something meant for injection on the public market one is just asking for legal issues. That's why you don't see it on the public market

Ya but there shouldn't be an issue with bulk powders that can easily be made into an injectable solution at home though

 

[brofessorx]

If you're going to go through all the trouble to get that bulk powder, just get test powder instead.

 

[DonnieM]

brofessorx How was your experience with Boladrol? Is it really that harsh to the liver?

 

[brofessorx]

brofessorx How was your experience with Boladrol? Is it really that harsh to the liver?

Well I ran it without any cycle support and cannot recall anything out of the norm.
Around week 4 I was constipated, and stomach bloated.
Something I am sure cycle assist and tudca can prevent.
The had the biggest increase in strength while on it.

 

[thatskindafun]

Epiandro 750mg or 1000mg. I just finished up a 6 week 400mg run. In 2 months I'll be doing one of those doses with 330mg 1-andro and 330mg 4-andro. Thanks for the help.

 

[brofessorx]

Epiandro 750mg or 1000mg. I just finished up a 6 week 400mg run. In 2 months I'll be doing one of those doses with 330mg 1-andro and 330mg 4-andro. Thanks for the help.

Didn't respond well to it, so can't help you there.

 

[DWeaver]

Is Androsterone ok to use in a 1-andro/ 4-Andro cycle? One more question......
What about Androsterone, 11KT and 4-Ando? Would those work ok together?

 

[hamdysayed]

Didn't respond well to it, so can't help you there.

you actually being kind just tell him sh!t is weak lol

 

[goalinmind]

When should you be concerned and drop in an AI like dex or aromasin ?

I'm currently at only 200mg a week of test and I'm cruising on this until I can get my blood work/weight to a healthier level.

Haven't had issues with estrogen yet so will be looking at adding in arimidex just need to understand the dosages most would use eod.

 

[The Express 42]

When should you be concerned and drop in an AI like dex or aromasin ?

I'm currently at only 200mg a week of test and I'm cruising on this until I can get my blood work/weight to a healthier level.

Haven't had issues with estrogen yet so will be looking at adding in arimidex just need to understand the dosages most would use eod.

I say start a low dose EOD at least starting in week 2. I waiting until I "experienced symptoms" like many recommend here and now I am trying to play catch up and Ive got a little pea sized lump behind my nip. Size is decreasing, but if I would have just started low early on. Maybe every 3rd day even it wouldve been prevented. Your estrogen is going to spike just like your test no doubt so why not be safe. That being said, I would be surprised if you were having E issues at 200mg a week

 

[goalinmind]

I say start a low dose EOD at least starting in week 2. I waiting until I "experienced symptoms" like many recommend here and now I am trying to play catch up and Ive got a little pea sized lump behind my nip. Size is decreasing, but if I would have just started low early on. Maybe every 3rd day even it wouldve been prevented. Your estrogen is going to spike just like your test no doubt so why not be safe. That being said, I would be surprised if you were having E issues at 200mg a week

I'm sure I was

No AI, no HCG at 2x injections a week = test cyp 200mg per week

Worst things so far have been every once in a while no sex drive/testicular atrophy - haven't added the HCG yet

Also, I'm about 10 weeks into this at 200mg a week. No real issues so far except the sex drive.

 

[brofessorx]

Didn't respond well to it, so can't help you there.

See above. Also wasn't impressed with td 11kt

Is Androsterone ok to use in a 1-andro/ 4-Andro cycle? One more question......
What about Androsterone, 11KT and 4-Ando? Would those work ok together?

 

[brofessorx]

I'm sure I was

No AI, no HCG at 2x injections a week = test cyp 200mg per week

Worst things so far have been every once in a while no sex drive/testicular atrophy - haven't added the HCG yet

Also, I'm about 10 weeks into this at 200mg a week. No real issues so far except the sex drive.

That sounds like a low test issue. Is it from the doctor?
If so might look into freeing up test with other things like aveena sativa and long jack.

I've ran 500mg test e with no ai and no issues. We're all different. I'm cruising on 250 test c per week and am actually using atd in order to kill my libido.
All I think about is sex, especially at the gym.

Too high estrogen could effect libido, but too low will def effect it.

125-150mg test c weekly is a trt dose, so at 200 your libido should be going strong.

But, we're all different. What works for most might not work for you. That's where experimenting and trial and error come into play.

 

[Dma378]

See above. Also wasn't impressed with td 11kt

First time I used Iron Legion XI-KT it was outstanding. But the 2nd time (after its comeback) didn't get nearly the same, if any, results.

 

[brofessorx]

First time I used Iron Legion XI-KT it was outstanding. But the 2nd time (after its comeback) didn't get nearly the same, if any, results.

I used it once back in the day, prototype 11-kt, I found 7-spray was pretty similar.

11-oxo is probably a better option as it can be dosed high. Td has limits on how much you can dose.

 

[goalinmind]

That sounds like a low test issue. Is it from the doctor?
If so might look into freeing up test with other things like aveena sativa and long jack.

I've ran 500mg test e with no ai and no issues. We're all different. I'm cruising on 250 test c per week and am actually using atd in order to kill my libido.
All I think about is sex, especially at the gym.

Too high estrogen could effect libido, but too low will def effect it.

125-150mg test c weekly is a trt dose, so at 200 your libido should be going strong.

But, we're all different. What works for most might not work for you. That's where experimenting and trial and error come into play.

Test is from an HRT clinic, (for now) I have a bunch of gear from other sources I'm sitting and waiting for a b/c until I get my blood work checked out

The low libido could have been many things for me, as far as low test. I had low test at 29 years old and ended up getting checked out/hopping on some TRT

Also, 8 days after injection my test level was at steady 860-880s. I'm getting new blood work in a few days, so will see where all my levels are at and not just total test numbers..

 

[Scrutiny]

Brofessor - I've been using Trest (Oral, 100 to 125mg per day from OL) for 11-12 weeks now (will PCT in a weeks time), and the last 3 or so weeks I have felt non-responsive to it and have had a significant libido crash and energy/performance crash with my workouts (I am using Predator's 4AD at 3-4 caps per day as well).
Dosing up Trest to 75mg PreWO seems to just make my heart rate go up and I lose focus.

Any reason as to why something as potent and effective as Trest could tank libido and performance? Weeks 7-8 of the cycle was amazing (sky high libido, strength, muscle pumps etc).
For your info, I am using Aromasin daily in a research chem at 0.5ml (12.5mg equivalent or there abouts).

PCT will be: 20/20/10/10 Nolva, Super PCT, M-Test - and also have 3/4 a bottle of APE by AEN and a full bottle of Rebirth.

Thanks.

 

[FrankM]

Dear Brofessor...

I'm planning my second cycle, ran Primeval Labs 1-andro last year, I wanted to try Halodrol for a recomp/dry gain cycle in a few months, my question is should I run it solo or with a base? I was thinking I'd run it with 1Andro plus joint support since they're both dry compounds, but I've also seen info stating I should run compounds individually before stacking. I have my support supps waiting on serm to come in, cycle is still months away just want to get all my info and supps in order first. Thanks in advance.

 

[brofessorx]

Brofessor - I've been using Trest (Oral, 100 to 125mg per day from OL) for 11-12 weeks now (will PCT in a weeks time), and the last 3 or so weeks I have felt non-responsive to it and have had a significant libido crash and energy/performance crash with my workouts (I am using Predator's 4AD at 3-4 caps per day as well).
Dosing up Trest to 75mg PreWO seems to just make my heart rate go up and I lose focus.

Any reason as to why something as potent and effective as Trest could tank libido and performance? Weeks 7-8 of the cycle was amazing (sky high libido, strength, muscle pumps etc).
For your info, I am using Aromasin daily in a research chem at 0.5ml (12.5mg equivalent or there abouts).

PCT will be: 20/20/10/10 Nolva, Super PCT, M-Test - and also have 3/4 a bottle of APE by AEN and a full bottle of Rebirth.

Thanks.

This convo might help you understand what happened.

Including EQ? Lol

Deca?

EQ is not deca
I would say deca is better suited for longer cycles, though, like EQ.
If that's what you're trying to ask.

I know
I meant deca obviously needs to ran longer than 8 weeks

You guys are talking esters. This has to be taken into account.
You aren't fully "on" until a few weeks into those longer esters.
The fact still remains the same. 6-8 weeks then results slow or stop. Then something will need to change. Giving that rest, diet and training are all on point, one will need to increase the amount of hormone in order to continue seeing progress.

Pat,

It seems most people recommend running test cycles for the standard 12 weeks + as opposed to 8-10 weeks...what benefits does running 12+ weeks provide compared to say 8-10? I think I saw somewhere that you said gains level off after about 8 weeks. Does 12+ weeks help solidify the gains?

I dont think its gonna do anything more at that point then delay the crash

**

I think it would be more likely to solidify the HTPA shutdown as opposed to the gains

**

Is keeping cycle length less merely to aide in HPTA recovery or is there another reason? Also, why do gains seem to stall after so many weeks?

**

the answer to your first question is that exogenous hormones can have negative side effects other than HPTA suppression

the answer to your second question is because you can only grow up until the point where some limiting factor is going to put a halt to it. There could be many limiting factors. Obviously we cant take steroids and gain 8 pounds every two weeks indefinitely. And this is does not necessarily have to do with insensitivity to androgens. If that were going on then one would expect to lose weight after a while instead of maintaining their gains during the rest of the cycle

**

Would hepatoxicity be one of these factors in the case of PHs (just making sure I understand you)?



Is this why blasting and cruising works? You're letting other factors recover while cruising and then eventually blasting to make another gain.

**

the answer to your first question is yes

the answer to your other question is no. apparently you failed to fully understand what i said

**

I believe this is where my reply was short sighted. What types of limiting factors are we talking about here? Metabolic, genetic? Or am I totally off the ball on this one?

**

metabolic, which ultimately is a consequence of your genes of course. these limits are built into your physiology so no amount of blasting or cruising is gonna matter. the only thing you could do is try to address them via some sort of pharmacological intervention i suppose, but you would have to know what you are addressing to begin with

myostatin inhibitors are interesting because they seem to disable the brakes on a whole slew of physiological processes involved in the limitation of muscle growth, some of which may be responsible for the plateau of growth seen after several weeks of AAS use

**

a better way to look at this is to realize that your muscles are a dynamic tissue - with its amino acids always being broken down for energy as well as always being built up via anabolic processes. how large they get is a function of where this balance lies. diet, training, and drugs can all affect this set point.

So adding anabolic steroids will simply reset your muscles to a different balance of anabolic and catabolic processes, leading to a new baseline of muscle mass.

**

That makes sense. So, even though you're resetting the baseline, has there been any research showing that the baseline has a genetic ceiling? I ask because there is always the debate as to whether a bodybuilder is so big because he's taking XYZ drugs. While that may be true to an extent and using the baseline context, is it fair to say that the bodybuilder is able to obtain a higher baseline because he is genetically able to?

**

everything regarding your physiological potential is determined by your genes.

**

Pat,

So if you were on TRT (therefore HTPA recovery is not a concern) and wanted to obtain maximum muscle mass, would you cycle using 8-10 week cycles and then wait an equal amount of time, check blood work (assuming everything is ok), and cycle again?

**

as opposed to what?

**

As opposed to longer 12+ week cycles? This way you can cycle more times per year and hopefully put on more muscle. If gains slow/stop after approximately 8-10 weeks and continuing with the cycle doesn't help keep the gains...then why not stop, give your receptors and body a break, and then cycle again? If this is the best approach, why does it seem everyone advocates for longer cycles, like the standard 12+ weeks.

**

Why continue with a cycle past 8-10 weeks if the gains have stopped? What benefit is there to continue?

**

if you want to put on the most muscle (and dont care about the downsides) then stay on cycle year around. thats what most of the pros do.

**

the benefit is that you will stay at that level. and by manipulating other aspects of your program with diet, training, or different kinds of drugs you can still coax yourself to slowly keep gaining even

by stopping you will lose a good part of your gains and then when you cycle again you pretty much will just end up at the same sticking point. You will have lost a few months where you could have gained a little more

thats why the pros dont go off.

with that said, its a very unhealthy thing to do

 

[brofessorx]

Dear Brofessor...

Well, 1-andro won't act like a test base.

You could stack the two. No issues there.
Hdrol+1-dhea

 

[FrankM]

Thanks for your reply ��

 

[sunfood]

Thanks Brofessor for redirecting me to here.

I am currently running a LGD/Epi-andro cycle. 7mg LGD/200mg Epiandro every day. I split Epi-andro to two dose - 100mg in the morning and 100mg in the evening.

My question is about the Epi-andro. I have 2 bottles from different brands, one is 100mg and the other one is 250mg. I want to up the dosage to 350mg per day. (I know it's low for most of you here, but for some reason my body reacts well even on 200mg/day) Should I take the 250mg or 100mg dose in the morning or evening, would there be a difference?

Also, I workout fasted first thing in the morning. I have heard that Epi-andro is better absorbed with fat. (Although I've also heard some people prefer to take epi on empty stomach, which is what I am doing currently.) Would a teaspoon of olive oil help for my first dose of Epi-andro that is taken before workout in the morning?

Thank you!

 

[Dma378]

Thanks Brofessor for redirecting me to here.

I am currently running a LGD/Epi-andro cycle. 7mg LGD/200mg Epiandro every day. I split Epi-andro to two dose - 100mg in the morning and 100mg in the evening.

My question is about the Epi-andro. I have 2 bottles from different brands, one is 100mg and the other one is 250mg. I want to up the dosage to 350mg per day. (I know it's low for most of you here, but for some reason my body reacts well even on 200mg/day) Should I take the 250mg or 100mg dose in the morning or evening, would there be a difference?

Also, I workout fasted first thing in the morning. I have heard that Epi-andro is better absorbed with fat. (Although I've also heard some people prefer to take epi on empty stomach, which is what I am doing currently.) Would a teaspoon of olive oil help for my first dose of Epi-andro that is taken before workout in the morning?

Thank you!

I would take the 250mg preworkout. The olive oil or a spoon of PB would be good to go. Still basically working out fasted.

Sorry brofessorx if I'm stepping on your toes in your thread here...

 

[sunfood]

I would take the 250mg preworkout. The olive oil or a spoon of PB would be good to go. Still basically working out fasted.

Sorry brofessorx if I'm stepping on your toes in your thread here...

Thank you for the suggestions, Dma. Extremely helpful for me!

 

[Mykoe]

500 test E/wk Started with Epi/Tren oral. 200lbs, 6ft, 20%bf I am eating 2500 calories a day. 200 protien, 260carbs, 75fats (ish) I was aiming for a recomp. I just want to make sure i am getting the most out of my cycle. I am up about 2-4 lbs. Would you guys change anything? Thanks

edit:tdee is 3000calories

 

[brofessorx]

How much cardio you doing?

I prefer to eat maintenance and let cardio burn fat on a recomp.

 

[Mykoe]

zero cardio as of now

 

[pyrobatt]

zero cardio as of now

Sorry to hijack..


This would be my first change to get the most out of your cycle. Please add in 1 to 2 days a week. Cardio is good for all the things.

 

[skinnybones]

Subbed

 

[brofessorx]

Sorry to hijack..


This would be my first change to get the most out of your cycle. Please add in 1 to 2 days a week. Cardio is good for all the things.

A lot of bros skip out cardio not realizing research shows you can do 20min 2x per week of mild cardio before it begins to impair strength and size gains. And that's not being on aas or taking into count the health benefits from just that little bit.

If you're using aas, you should be trying to get at least 20min moderate cardio in every day.

 

[Nac]

This convo might help you understand what happened.

Brof, though PA doesnt specifically mention it in this exchange, I do recall him saying elsewhere that rising cortisol can be one such limiting factor on longer cycles.

Problem is, all the data Ive seen with test administration shows the opposite trend, with cortisol being suppressed/declining.

You aware of any studies demonstrating Pat's assertion regarding cortisol-rise? Cos if he is right, this would suggest some kind of U-curve response, which would be very interdasting.

 

[brofessorx]

I'd have to look for specific data, I just know the two have a inverse relationship

Edit: can't find anything. I wouldn't think cortisol would rise until post cycle. That's a whole new research area ( cortisol) that is have to pretty much start fresh.

 

[Nac]

I'd have to look for specific data, I just know the two have a inverse relationship

Edit: can't find anything. I wouldn't think cortisol would rise until post cycle. That's a whole new research area ( cortisol) that is have to pretty much start fresh.

Aye, cortisol rising once you come off the test. But not while on, surely. I went quickly through the couple of longterm test studies I have access to, but none of them measured cortisol. At least not at time points relevant here (8+ weeks).

 

[Dma378]

I've heard people here talk about rising cortisol while on cycle. Probably just bro-science that gets repeated and passed around.

 

[brofessorx]

I've heard people here talk about rising cortisol while on cycle. Probably just bro-science that gets repeated and passed around.

Normally in athletes, during an intense training session we see cortisol rise, then there is a spike in testosterone following as a response.

 

[Nac]

I've heard people here talk about rising cortisol while on cycle. Probably just bro-science that gets repeated and passed around.

Hah! Well, on the face of it it does sound plausible...if the body can increase myostatin and SHBG in response to prolongued periods of [atypical AR activity? Im not sure precisely what the body's feedback mechanism is here for upregulating myostatin/SHBG] as a means of putting the brakes on te gainz, why not cortisol as well?

Normally in athletes, during an intense training session we see cortisol rise, then there is a spike in testosterone following as a response.

True, and that is something fairly transient in comparison though to what is being proposed as a "gainz inhibitor" mechanism.

 

[Dma378]

Normally in athletes, during an intense training session we see cortisol rise, then there is a spike in testosterone following as a response.

Right. But that's on and off cycle. Not simply related to the cycle itself, correct?

 

[Zariph]

whats your cycle experience? Also any oral only cycles worth doing - or do you recommend to add injectable test no matter what?

 

[brofessorx]

whats your cycle experience? Also any oral only cycles worth doing - or do you recommend to add injectable test no matter what?

Who's this directed at? If you meant me, I don't use performance enhancing drugs...... :smoker:

 

[Nac]

Normally in athletes, during an intense training session we see cortisol rise, then there is a spike in testosterone following as a response.

Fukn sux with PHF down and inaccessible, 99% of google PA queries are results for there :/

 

[Tank999]

How much NAC to take daily in pct from a long lgd/andro run?

 

[big_pete]

how many rest days a week do you bros take while on cycle? 1? 2? none?

 

[BamBam0319]

how many rest days a week do you bros take while on cycle? 1? 2? none?

1 for me