Article: Fasted Cardio Is Bad
- Thread starter The Press
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compudog
Well-known member
This article is basically asserting that exercise timing doesn't matter in relation to meal timing, but if that's true then the opposite is also true; meal timing doesn't matter in relation to exercise timing. That presents an awkward conclusion that clashes with the premise of the article though; that whether you do cardio fasted or not does not matter. That's what makes sense, and I think the author fudged this when they wrote: "Training intensely on an empty stomach will demand caloric expenditure that the body cannot fully meet, leading to diminished returns." What does "diminished returns" mean? Does it mean you're going to power out & fall down on the treadmill like a rag doll? Because that's not what happens. I've done cardio that lasted for nearly 20 hours (mountaineering) and I didn't power out. So what does it mean? It doesn't mean anything. It's just a statement made up to support the conclusion.
nicoacademia
New member
True what compudog said.... All i know is if your body is using up fat your efficiency at a higher intensity is lowered...the body will make up ways to cope with what the mind wants. If you are doing higher intensity stuff body will try and use up what freely available glycogen. If not in will convert and burn fat/muscle.
aLinux
Member
Besides fat loss....If I aint primed with fuel before anything in a gym, I cramp up like a bitch. Food is king. One thing I always wondered is how long to wait to hit cardio or the weights after eating... I wait at least an hour or more..maybe I should go sooner to get the thermo or barf effects : )
compudog
Well-known member
Simple, if your body is going to "choose" fuels regardless of when you ate last, then it doesn't matter when you ate last in relation to when you do your cardio. In other words, whether you do cardio fasted or not doesn't make any difference. Regarding meal timing in general, I agree with you, 30 minutes is a ridiculously short window. Personally I think if a person eats twice or even once a day it's about the same effect as eating 6 or 12 times a day for that matter, but that's just my opinion. YMMV.
Lutztenways
Member
completely agree with compudog
saggy321
Well-known member
Up to a point. But the article on mentions fat oxidation in relation to low intensity and moderate intensity cardio. Can the same be said for HIIT or weight training, ie timing and profile of nutrition has no bearing upon type of fuel oxidised during exercise. Speaking for myself I notice no difference when doing moderate cardio on an empty stomach but notice a difference when I'm training with weights.
mr.cooper69
Legend
What a terrible article.
soontobbeast
Well-known member
see below
soontobbeast
Well-known member
If we're going to talk about what has the best net outcome, where is the mention of autophagy?
By far, the greatest benefit of fasted cardio is the enhancement of the autophagic process. Forget about the issue of burning fat or glycogen, what about life extension and disease prevention? Autophagy is an integral part of keeping us healthy. It is our body's way of cleaning house.
When nutrients aren't readily available as with fasting, the autophagic process is most active. What's more, when you don't have nutrients AND you are exercising, autophagy is accelerated.
If we're going to talk about what ''goals that cause us to work out in the first place'', I would say it is to be healthier. Fasting is one of the most effective life extending tools we have.
Oh, and by the way, empirical evidence supports the fact that protein metabolism is negligible in instances of fasted training. Ask anyone who does intermittent fasting. Personally, I have GAINED muscle AND strength while fasting 20 hours a day, several days of the week, without the use of hormone enhancing 'supplements'.
When will the myth of 6 meals a day and pre-workout meals just die already?
By far, the greatest benefit of fasted cardio is the enhancement of the autophagic process. Forget about the issue of burning fat or glycogen, what about life extension and disease prevention? Autophagy is an integral part of keeping us healthy. It is our body's way of cleaning house.
When nutrients aren't readily available as with fasting, the autophagic process is most active. What's more, when you don't have nutrients AND you are exercising, autophagy is accelerated.
If we're going to talk about what ''goals that cause us to work out in the first place'', I would say it is to be healthier. Fasting is one of the most effective life extending tools we have.
Oh, and by the way, empirical evidence supports the fact that protein metabolism is negligible in instances of fasted training. Ask anyone who does intermittent fasting. Personally, I have GAINED muscle AND strength while fasting 20 hours a day, several days of the week, without the use of hormone enhancing 'supplements'.
When will the myth of 6 meals a day and pre-workout meals just die already?
asdfvtn
New member
There's a few solid points in the author's understanding of exercise physiology, but as compudog points out, he's getting confused at some things. I'm only hitting a couple of the bigger things, but,
The "fuel continuum" he's talking about is true only to a certain extent. Unless you're doing fairly low intensity workouts all the time or your body is condition to use the fat oxidation cycle more (high endurance athletes) carbohydrates are almost always relied on primarily. Whenever you work out, your RER values shoot up. The RER values range from 0.7 (fat use) to 1.0 (carbohydrate use). It can be greater than 1.0, but that's due to buffering on your H+ ions.
Additionally, HIIT isn't effective because of it's "greater dependence on carbohydrates", it's effective because it allows you to work at a higher intensity for a longer period of time by having rest intervals. It burns more energy after the workout has ended due to more muscle fiber repairs it has to do as well as the accumulated oxygen deficit it's built up.
Another point includes the thermogenic effect of food. Yes, food does have a thermogenic effect. The problem is, your body doesn't digest much food while you're working out. The majority of your blood from your digestive organs are diverted to your skeletal muscles to provide more oxygen.
Breakfast, as more and more people are starting to know, isn't as important as it once was thought. I do love eggs though.
One important thing people need to remember out of this article though, is that you do start to breakdown muscle as a fuel when your body isn't fed and isn't able to keep up with the energy demands. (Berkhan suggests having some BCAA's before this to get around this problem).
The "fuel continuum" he's talking about is true only to a certain extent. Unless you're doing fairly low intensity workouts all the time or your body is condition to use the fat oxidation cycle more (high endurance athletes) carbohydrates are almost always relied on primarily. Whenever you work out, your RER values shoot up. The RER values range from 0.7 (fat use) to 1.0 (carbohydrate use). It can be greater than 1.0, but that's due to buffering on your H+ ions.
Additionally, HIIT isn't effective because of it's "greater dependence on carbohydrates", it's effective because it allows you to work at a higher intensity for a longer period of time by having rest intervals. It burns more energy after the workout has ended due to more muscle fiber repairs it has to do as well as the accumulated oxygen deficit it's built up.
Another point includes the thermogenic effect of food. Yes, food does have a thermogenic effect. The problem is, your body doesn't digest much food while you're working out. The majority of your blood from your digestive organs are diverted to your skeletal muscles to provide more oxygen.
Breakfast, as more and more people are starting to know, isn't as important as it once was thought. I do love eggs though.
One important thing people need to remember out of this article though, is that you do start to breakdown muscle as a fuel when your body isn't fed and isn't able to keep up with the energy demands. (Berkhan suggests having some BCAA's before this to get around this problem).
ballerj63
New member
4-6 meals all day, everyday baby! I tried that IF BS and felts weak as crap on my lifts. There ain't no shortcuts to a good physique period. It takes time, dedication, a smart routine, and most importantly nutrition.
Those that are IF'ing saying that this is how we used to eat is just a bunch of crap. Have you ever seen the early man diced to the socks like competitive natural bodybuilders? I think not!!!! They look more like cachetic Marathon runners.
Those that are IF'ing saying that this is how we used to eat is just a bunch of crap. Have you ever seen the early man diced to the socks like competitive natural bodybuilders? I think not!!!! They look more like cachetic Marathon runners.
Facetoface
Member
As anecdotal evidence against this article; When I started training in the morning instead of the afternoon, I took advantage of the fact that I could now train fasted (I wake up and all I have is a preworkout and bcaas) and within a month or two I had a 6 pack out of the blue, my wife said something when I was getting ready one day.. I looked down and was like "whoa, wtf".. needless to say I've trained fasted ever since, and made pretty good strength and size gains too.. (I drink down lots of protein and high glycemic carbs right after working out)..
alexoc949
Active member
you likely weren't doing it right.