Article: Bringing Up Lagging Legs

Great another "split" article. Targeting people with inferior leg development the majority of the time means targeting people who dislike training legs. Telling that same person to now have two seperate "leg days" is a laughable approach
 
Well, people that are naturally fat will have larger and therefore stronger legs and thus don't mind training legs since it is their more developed muscle. I could say the same about my shoulders, which I now train almost none.

I have to dang near kill myself on leg days to see results. Throwin up in the bathroom, three heartbeats away from cardiac arrest, sweating 2lbs off my body, etc.

Since I started splitting my legs, I have seen slight increases in mass in general and slightly more development for my hams - this was all w/ a sub 300 T-levels. So while you have a point, it doesn't contend that splitting is a bad idea. It's a bad idea for those who don't even train legs consistently or hard, but it could be a really excellent idea for those of us that have to drain our entire energy reserves to work the quads alone. I spend an entire session doing chest alone, so why wouldn't I spend an entire session training quads which are twice the size of my chest? Not to mention that to train hams effectively, you need to incorporate some really heavy lifting (particularly deadlifting), which again is a problem when you need 12+ sets for quads alone...
 
fueledpassion said:
Well...when I do stiffs or romanians, I do them on the blocks ( short legs ). It's hams-exclusive for me every time.
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And glutes right lol the program looks like a normal leg day workout he just changes the energy expenditures from one muscle group on Monday to the other on Thursday Friday so neither are just for one so you can have a ham and glute excercise on even a quad day. Unless I missed something
 
Stiff leg deads are in no way, shape, or form "quad dominant". They are hamstring dominant.
 
CK7 said:
Stiff leg deads are in no way, shape, or form "quad dominant". They are hamstring dominant.
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He's not saying that one day is just quads and the other is hams his program has both on both days just hitting quads first then hams( same day) and the other is hams first then quads. Still a split just exhausting one before the other so one side either quads or hams isnt neglect every week since if you did squats every week first your hams would suffer since your energy is lower after you Exaust your quads.
 
I am glad I trained my legs hard from the start. Personally I like doing hams and quads same day. Really enjoying the results of Mountain Dog training.
 
Someone is a bit slow. No one said stiff leg deadlifts were quad dominant. They are in the quad dominant workout, after the quad exercises,. If you look at the two workouts, the hamstring dominant one starts with hamstring exercises and then quads and calves. The quad dominant workout starts with quad exercises and then hams and calves.
 
girthypiece said:
Hammer those calves and ab/ad machines and see how much size you get from those. Given that the article alludes to adding size, your comment is misplaced.
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If you want to have a good athletic ROM with those big legs, than these 3 are very crucial. And adding these workouts into a leg day can increase ROM instantly.. Which equals More ROM for those heavy exercises and less discomfort. I'm not saying they'll add strength, but they can aid in strength increase. But you're correct they will not add direct size.
 
804 said:
If you want to have a good athletic ROM with those big legs, than these 3 are very crucial. And adding these workouts into a leg day can increase ROM instantly.. Which equals More ROM for those heavy exercises and less discomfort. I'm not saying they'll add strength, but they can aid in strength increase. But you're correct they will not add direct size.
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These are machine exercises with nearly zero carryover into compound lifts. They do exactly the opposite of what you have proposed. Joint mobility is not the topic of the article.
 
fueledpassion said:
I'm tryin to understand how stiff-legged deads are "quad dominant"...
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... They arent quad dominant, both given workouts are leg workouts but in both workouts the first few exercises are selected to mainly target quads or hammies. SLDL are later in the quad focused leg day because they ont target quads directly at all.
 
girthypiece said:
Great another "split" article. Targeting people with inferior leg development the majority of the time means targeting people who dislike training legs. Telling that same person to now have two seperate "leg days" is a laughable approach
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Lol... That's a pretty accurate statement.
 
Lol at the guy saying that calf, abductor and adductor are crucial. You're either a physical therapist, a wimp, or a joker.

Calf work is great for aesthetics. For athletic performance and carryover to other lifts?! No value
 
Tampoco said:
Lol at the guy saying that calf, abductor and adductor are crucial. You're either a physical therapist, a wimp, or a joker.

Calf work is great for aesthetics. For athletic performance and carryover to other lifts?! No value
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??? How do they not have carryover pr improve other lifts??

Im curious?
 
MANotaur said:
??? How do they not have carryover pr improve other lifts??

Im curious?
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Abduction and adduction are like doing internal and external rotation exercises for your shoulder. They are at most rehab exercises for strained adductors that can sometimes occur during wide stance squatting. Externally rotating your shoulder with light weights will not strengthen your bench because they are not primary movers of your arms therefore no carryover. Same with hip ad/abduction. In general, these stability muscle groups get strengthened alongside heavy compound lifts and do not need separate attention. Generally only after an injury are they ever used. Big calves are big testicles, their value in general, is trivial...
 
And I will also add this about calves, genetic predisposition rules here. Your time is better spent with a barbell on your back.
 
Has anyone here implemented this type of training "quad dominate" and "ham dominate" days to their routines each week? How did it work for you and did you make decent gains?
 
girthypiece said:
Abduction and adduction are like doing internal and external rotation exercises for your shoulder. They are at most rehab exercises for strained adductors that can sometimes occur during wide stance squatting. Externally rotating your shoulder with light weights will not strengthen your bench because they are not primary movers of your arms therefore no carryover. Same with hip ad/abduction. In general, these stability muscle groups get strengthened alongside heavy compound lifts and do not need separate attention. Generally only after an injury are they ever used. Big calves are big testicles, their value in general, is trivial...
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But what happens when you apply heavy weights? Have you ever finished off a hardcore squat routine with ab/add exercises w/ moderate to heavy weight?

I have never done them consistent enough to say whether they do much beyond leaving me really, really sore the next few days but that's more than I can say for a lot of other leg workouts...
 
fueledpassion said:
But what happens when you apply heavy weights? Have you ever finished off a hardcore squat routine with ab/add exercises w/ moderate to heavy weight?

I have never done them consistent enough to say whether they do much beyond leaving me really, really sore the next few days but that's more than I can say for a lot of other leg workouts...
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Ask yourself this. If you were to finish up a bench press session and then hammered your rotator cuff with aggressive sets of banded external rotation, would you not be sore as hell? Of course you would be. Then ask yourself why you are sore? Surely you squat on a regular basis, why then are you so sore from ad/abductor work? Because they are not directly involved in squatting! Being that they are not primary movers in compound lower body movements, it is foolish to expect any benefit from them that is not rehabilitation focused from an injury or similar.
 
girthypiece said:
Ask yourself this. If you were to finish up a bench press session and then hammered your rotator cuff with aggressive sets of banded external rotation, would you not be sore as hell? Of course you would be. Then ask yourself why you are sore? Surely you squat on a regular basis, why then are you so sore from ad/abductor work? Because they are not directly involved in squatting! Being that they are not primary movers in compound lower body movements, it is foolish to expect any benefit from them that is not rehabilitation focused from an injury or similar.
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Wasnt arguing, just making sure you are peeking at this from multiple angles. Quite honestly, I only use them for stretching purposes because I am stubby and tighter than most.
 
fueledpassion said:
Wasnt arguing, just making sure you are peeking at this from multiple angles. Quite honestly, I only use them for stretching purposes because I am stubby and tighter than most.
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I wasn't arguing either. I just wanted to use your response to give a different perspective to those who are wanting to learn how to evaluate their own training methods
 
AllPump3dUp said:
Has anyone here implemented this type of training "quad dominate" and "ham dominate" days to their routines each week? How did it work for you and did you make decent gains?
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I train this way and have for the last 2 years. I am a competitive natty BB (2nd place in HW Open last competition) and powerlifter (220#class).

At 6'2 my hams are my biggest weakness in terms of physique, so I have split my program to have two leg days.

Tuesday is dead, good morning, GHR, hypers, leg curl, and leg presses.

Friday is squat, lunge, leg press, hypers, rdls, and leg extensions.

I finish both days by training my testicles...I mean calves.

Current PR's are 435 atg raw squat and 575 raw conventional dead.

I train using 5/3/1 with various assistance templates/schemes.

Slow and steady progress, but for anyone but a noob that's to be expected
 
Tampoco said:
I train this way and have for the last 2 years. I am a competitive natty BB (2nd place in HW Open last competition) and powerlifter (220#class).

At 6'2 my hams are my biggest weakness in terms of physique, so I have split my program to have two leg days.

Tuesday is dead, good morning, GHR, hypers, leg curl, and leg presses.

Friday is squat, lunge, leg press, hypers, rdls, and leg extensions.

I finish both days by training my testicles...I mean calves.

Current PR's are 435 atg raw squat and 575 raw conventional dead.

I train using 5/3/1 with various assistance templates/schemes.

Slow and steady progress, but for anyone but a noob that's to be expected
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Repped for testicles reference. Have you tried blood flow restriction training for calves?
 
Tampoco said:
I train this way and have for the last 2 years. I am a competitive natty BB (2nd place in HW Open last competition) and powerlifter (220#class).

At 6'2 my hams are my biggest weakness in terms of physique, so I have split my program to have two leg days.

Tuesday is dead, good morning, GHR, hypers, leg curl, and leg presses.

Friday is squat, lunge, leg press, hypers, rdls, and leg extensions.

I finish both days by training my testicles...I mean calves.

Current PR's are 435 atg raw squat and 575 raw conventional dead.

I train using 5/3/1 with various assistance templates/schemes.

Slow and steady progress, but for anyone but a noob that's to be expected
Click to expand...

I started implementing this today as followed (quad dominate)

5x5 Barbell Back Squat
5x5 Deadlift
4x10 Leg Press
3x10 Good Mornings
4x10 BB Hip Thrusts
12,12,10,8,8 Seated Calf Raises
5x12 Smith-Machine Calf Raises

How does this look plus i added a heavy 1 set burn out session at the end on leg extensions. Should i change anything or does this look pretty solid for quad, ass, and calf day?

new PR was 235 @ 5 reps today. Increases in numbers like a mother f****er!!!!!!
 
AllPump3dUp said:
I started implementing this today as followed (quad dominate)

5x5 Barbell Back Squat
5x5 Deadlift
4x10 Leg Press
3x10 Good Mornings
4x10 BB Hip Thrusts
12,12,10,8,8 Seated Calf Raises
5x12 Smith-Machine Calf Raises

How does this look plus i added a heavy 1 set burn out session at the end on leg extensions. Should i change anything or does this look pretty solid for quad, ass, and calf day?

new PR was 235 @ 5 reps today. Increases in numbers like a mother f****er!!!!!!
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I think that it's an ambitious day, but I don't think anyone can perform to their best potential on deadlift 5x5 after a squat 5x5. You may want to have another leg day for dead or have your deadlift as the opener/main event on your back day.

Those are definitely some great moves though
 
girthypiece said:
Repped for testicles reference. Have you tried blood flow restriction training for calves?
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Hey

I don't have any experience with restriction training, but I imagine it hurts like hell. I do worry about vein thrombosis and or compartment syndrome, but I would love to see accelerated gains in the hams and calves.

What has your experience been with the method?
 
Tampoco said:
I think that it's an ambitious day, but I don't think anyone can perform to their best potential on deadlift 5x5 after a squat 5x5. You may want to have another leg day for dead or have your deadlift as the opener/main event on your back day.

Those are definitely some great moves though
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Sounds like a good move. Could i replace it with a front squat 5x5 or what rep scheme am i looking for? I was definitely surprised about the weight i hit on that last dead, 235 for 5 reps. when just a few months ago 235 was my 1 rep. ****in monster now hahaha
 
AllPump3dUp said:
Sounds like a good move. Could i replace it with a front squat 5x5 or what rep scheme am i looking for? I was definitely surprised about the weight i hit on that last dead, 235 for 5 reps. when just a few months ago 235 was my 1 rep. ****in monster now hahaha
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Lol yes you are a god among men... 235x5.

I recommend you get on a basic program and give it a year or so before you get creative. Set ambitious goals for yourself and plan the next year as a journey for 400lb dead, 300lb squat, 225lb bench or something like that.

Front squats are great, but a 5x5 scheme is going to have you around ~80% of your max, which is tough after already hitting back squat.

Today my deads were 5x5 at 455 and on my 5th set I went balls out for 10 reps. Couldn't quite lock out #11. Glutes quit on me
 
Tampoco said:
Lol yes you are a god among men... 235x5.

I recommend you get on a basic program and give it a year or so before you get creative. Set ambitious goals for yourself and plan the next year as a journey for 400lb dead, 300lb squat, 225lb bench or something like that.

Front squats are great, but a 5x5 scheme is going to have you around ~80% of your max, which is tough after already hitting back squat.

Today my deads were 5x5 at 455 and on my 5th set I went balls out for 10 reps. Couldn't quite lock out #11. Glutes quit on me
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Could you actually recommend me a program to try? Remember, I am a Marine so cardio is a must unfortunately!
 
There are dozens of viable options. I like the simplicity of 5/3/1 or stronglifts 5x5. Just have a look around and see what you can commit to. Cardio isn't a bad thing, but if you're not POUNDING calories your bodyweight and training numbers won't improve. You must eat to grow!

Lift heavy 3-5 times a week with full ROM on the main compound moves and you'll be fine. The little moves don't mean much. Lol the convo about the unimportance of little moves is what got me talking in this thread to begin with.

I'm a CSCS for whatever that's worth.
 
Tampoco said:
There are dozens of viable options. I like the simplicity of 5/3/1 or stronglifts 5x5. Just have a look around and see what you can commit to. Cardio isn't a bad thing, but if you're not POUNDING calories your bodyweight and training numbers won't improve. You must eat to grow!

Lift heavy 3-5 times a week with full ROM on the main compound moves and you'll be fine. The little moves don't mean much. Lol the convo about the unimportance of little moves is what got me talking in this thread to begin with.

I'm a CSCS for whatever that's worth.
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Check your inbox bro!!!! I sent you some mail!
 
Tampoco said:
Hey

I don't have any experience with restriction training, but I imagine it hurts like hell. I do worry about vein thrombosis and or compartment syndrome, but I would love to see accelerated gains in the hams and calves.

What has your experience been with the method?
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Following a surgery that left me unable to lift for several months, I incorporated as much BFR training as possible initially. Because I was limited I tried training calves a couple times per week. The protocol is to wrap just below the knee or above the knee if the former is intolerable on a 7/10 scale, 10 being instant pins and needles. I used extra long wrist wraps. 4 sets (30, 15, 15, 15) with 30-45 seconds rest with about 30% of your 1rm. I did seated and standing calves with only 50-75 lbs resistance. It has been the only way I could achieve a "pump" in my calves and if I were ever to train calves again, I would not train them without this protocol.
BFR is currently being studied as a means of increasing arterial compliance in the elderly. I would highly encourage it, and would consider it very safe if done correctly.
 
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