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Are dairy products bad for you?

Whacked

Whacked

Well-known member
Im not talking about lactose tolerance issues here.

Unless you've been hiding under a rock, you've seen/read the articles that espouse this notion; specifically, telling you to avoid dairy products for optimal health. But..........WHY?

WHAT exactly is it in dairy that these claims are made? People even link dairy to cancer!

I personally feel MUCH BETTER when eating non-dairy protein sources. Rarely ever sick, don't hold water as bad, never bloated after I eat, more energy. But WHY?

Hell if I know. Anyone shed some light here?
 
HTTP -- findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1594/is_2_15/ai_n6126307/

also recommend a book called Dangerous Grains.. I'm not a freak and I don't advocate to avoid these foods.. but it's interesting the science behind the addicting nature of dairy and glutens
 
I will say this: I don't know for certain if dairy has negative effects on humans, but I do know that I feel better when I'm not taking in any dairy.

Just my speculation.
 
the second i removed dairy from my diet i noticed a few things:

1) skin appeared MUCH thinner
2) less gas (and im not very lactose in tollerant at all)
3)skin cleared a little bit
4) water weight dropped much faster

i also just recently changed my diet to include MINIMAL wheat gluten. OAT bran is my only source that may contain wheat/gluten (this all depends on the manufacturer) and oatmeal (again depends on manufacturer)

i believe mostly every body who says they are carb sensitive really have a form of gluten sensitivity so they will inevitable hold more water and have more bloat

i cant evenb begin to tell you how much better i feel on something like this
 
Crazy, I can't imagine how I could afford to eat gluten-free... hell I can't imagine changing 1/2 my carbs like that. Share some key points to making it happen without $100 in grocery every week LOL :D
 
Rice and potatoes are gluten-free.

Most people have a mild casein allergy, which is generally what causes many of the side effects from dairy.
 
Whacked said:
Im not talking about lactose tolerance issues here.

Unless you've been hiding under a rock, you've seen/read the articles that espouse this notion; specifically, telling you to avoid dairy products for optimal health. But..........WHY?

WHAT exactly is it in dairy that these claims are made? People even link dairy to cancer!

I personally feel MUCH BETTER when eating non-dairy protein sources. Rarely ever sick, don't hold water as bad, never bloated after I eat, more energy. But WHY?

Hell if I know. Anyone shed some light here?
Click to expand...

Its the hormones cows are shot up with, and antibiotics. Remember the phrase you are what you eat... Well this trickles down the food chain.

Best option if you are determined to stick with dairy is to find a local farmer to provide you with raw milk.. Milk is not naturally white as we see in the gallons, its a yellowish creamy color, and depending on the grass the cows eat during the summer the milk gets a golden color, and creamy.
It is loaded with enzymes, CLA, and very good for you.
I live in farmer land and am making a list of what to buy from these farmers. It supports local economy, and you get high quality food, which in turn makes you healthier.

On the flip side, removing dairy from your diet will result in you feeling "lighter", but not looking anemic.. An example is we made stuffed butternut squash using vegetarian styled stuffing i.e. some bread, spices etc.. and placed that in the oven for 45 minutes, had 3 ears of peach corn, and brown rice with the stuffed butternut squash, and I felt FULL, not toxic sleepy full, but satisfied, and energized.

MK9
 
celc5 said:
Crazy, I can't imagine how I could afford to eat gluten-free... hell I can't imagine changing 1/2 my carbs like that. Share some key points to making it happen without $100 in grocery every week LOL :D
Click to expand...

gotta buy in bulk,

lots of canned veggies, the only thing that gets expensive is the strawberries gotta buy those EOD just about i only have 5 strawberries thoguh per workoutday

all carb sources are starchy veggies or quinoa buckwheat amaranth or oats.
 
Dairy is not the best source to get proteins, rough on one's GI tract as well. I recommend almond milk instead of regular whole milk, and supplement with b-12 if one is not going to be intaking any source of dairy.
 
man, i don't know if i could ditch milk and dairy completely. i love my morning shakes with skim milk.

plus, there are many benefits to milk as well. sometimes i just gotta take the bad with the good.
 
andrew732 said:
Dairy is not the best source to get proteins, rough on one's GI tract as well. I recommend almond milk instead of regular whole milk, and supplement with b-12 if one is not going to be intaking any source of dairy.
Click to expand...

I love almond milk, but I wish I could find a brand that had a thicker product. Most of it is real watery.
 
crazyfool405 said:
the second i removed dairy from my diet i noticed a few things:

1) skin appeared MUCH thinner
2) less gas (and im not very lactose in tollerant at all)
3)skin cleared a little bit
4) water weight dropped much faster

i also just recently changed my diet to include MINIMAL wheat gluten. OAT bran is my only source that may contain wheat/gluten (this all depends on the manufacturer) and oatmeal (again depends on manufacturer)

i believe mostly every body who says they are carb sensitive really have a form of gluten sensitivity so they will inevitable hold more water and have more bloat

i cant evenb begin to tell you how much better i feel on something like this
Click to expand...




I totally agree with CrazyFool. I saw the same improvements when I stopped drinking or using milk 20 plus years ago.

I like to think that I am not a wacko about most news I read but I can tell you that milk specifically is not something we need. Cow milk that is.

First, we ween ourselves on HUMAN breast milk which is understandable because of the source being human and the fantastic growth factors we need as children/babies.

BUT, somewhere we got the idea that cow milk was as good as breast milk which is nasty if you really think about it. Us drinking and animals milk? ****e, most of the calcium and B vitamins in cow milk is added to it believe it or not.

And do not get me started on SOY Milk. You ever see a soy bean with tits? Me neither. It ain't MILK people!!! But soy is abundant and they need to move it so you get all this whoop-la over soy this and soy that when in all reality it acts too much like an estrogen for males and females to ingest.

Let's face it......we get milk, grains and soy pushed on us because it helps keep farmers in business. And when they are making it by they vote for the people who help them. I am sorry but that is the way it is. :cussing:


peace!
Rike
 
Milk is only "bad" for you if you're lactose intolerant or allergic to it. I'm neither, so I consider myself lucky. At least in that regard.
 
Marco, that's awesome but that was not the point of what we were saying.

Milk will keep you from making your body sharp because for whatever reason it "puts a coating" on you that will forever keep your muscles from showing themselves at their best. It has this blurring or bloating effect that when you want to look ripped it will prevent that from happening, that is all.

I actually like it when all you guys drink milk and think that I am weird. I look extra ripped next to you milk drinkers. Thank you.

peace!
Rike
 
Dairy is inflammatory to the body (Dr. Sears, Taubes, etc). As we grow past infancy, we, along with every other mammal on Earth, reduces or even loses the ability to create lactase. To a certain extent, we are all allergic to dairy, where some can just tolerate it better than others. The earlier posters who mentioned improvements in their complexion, digestion, and general well-being are removing an inflammatory food source from their diet. We aren't designed to process milk, and even though some can get away with it, it's far far far from ideal. Stick to meats for your protein. I cut out dairy a while ago, and aside from missing cream in the coffee everynow and then (coconut milk is a good sub), I feel great.

We only started drinking milk a few thousand years ago... cows in the Paleolithic era were a different type of creature back then. Vicious. You wouldn't be able to milk it. Just like grains, we just started consuming them. And along came the silent inflammation, which led to the massive influx of auto-immune diseases. F the food pyramid, it's all wrong! Crazy how they got away with that.
 
Rike said:
Marco, that's awesome but that was not the point of what we were saying.

Milk will keep you from making your body sharp because for whatever reason it "puts a coating" on you that will forever keep your muscles from showing themselves at their best. It has this blurring or bloating effect that when you want to look ripped it will prevent that from happening, that is all.

I actually like it when all you guys drink milk and think that I am weird. I look extra ripped next to you milk drinkers. Thank you.

peace!
Rike
Click to expand...

I agree with you about the "bloat". However, if you're not allergic, you can make great gains from drinking milk. I'm not saying you should drink a gallon a day, though. I'd weigh 300 pounds if I drank that much.

Also, there are different diets for different purposes. Too many people try to make a one-size fits all diet. Milk definitely doesn't belong on a cutting or max definition diet, but does belong on a mass gaining diet IF you're not allergic.

Genetically, certain nationalities have a tendency for not being milk intolerant like most people are. So, again, if you're not intolerant, there is nothing wrong with drinking milk.
 
i dont drink milk at all...no cheese,but i will have organic yogurt a few times per week..the yogurt doesnt bother me all.but cheese and milk dif. makes my guts hurt..
 
What about yogurt? I eat blueberry yogurt everyday with my blueberries. I don't want to give that up. What about all the good helpful gut bacteria in yogurt?
 
Vegking said:
What about yogurt? I eat blueberry yogurt everyday with my blueberries. I don't want to give that up. What about all the good helpful gut bacteria in yogurt?
Click to expand...

Greek yogurt, a minimally processed organic yogurt is fair. In the end, it is still dairy, but if you must, I would opt for that choice over any of the big commercial brands such as yoplait or whatever which are filled, and I mean FILLED, with sugars.

Activia is one of those yogurts that just plain lies to the consumer. Yes, they have a minute bit of healthy cultures added inside, but it's all marketing. Think of the Gatorade knock-off, Vitamin Water. It's just sugar and water, just like Gatorade, but when they add just a tiny bit of Vitamin C - it's now a healthy vitamin beverage? Not a chance. Yogurts often have the same marketing scheme going on, so be on the lookout with your choices.
If you are specifically looking to supplement with digestive cultures, look into Gut Health by RPN, or a supplement designed to do so without the added sugars of processed yogurts.
 
marco wolf said:
Also, there are different diets for different purposes. Too many people try to make a one-size fits all diet. Milk definitely doesn't belong on a cutting or max definition diet, but does belong on a mass gaining diet IF you're not allergic.

Genetically, certain nationalities have a tendency for not being milk intolerant like most people are. So, again, if you're not intolerant, there is nothing wrong with drinking milk.
Click to expand...

I have to respectfully disagree - if I were bulking per say, I would just opt for more meat and healthy fats. Maybe double up on the steak and avocado. Milk is easy to throw down as it's calorie dense, but it ends there. We'll gain weight, but we'd be healthier bulking with better choices.

Being tolerant, and being allergic to milk are actually to very different things. Dairy products promote silent inflammation(reference to Dr. Barry Sears), a harm we cannot feel in the body. So we are all technically allergic to milk. Some of us can just tolerate the GI issues better than others. But tolerance does not directly indicate what internal reactions our body has to the food.
 
Highlanda01602 said:
I have to respectfully disagree - if I were bulking per say, I would just opt for more meat and healthy fats. Maybe double up on the steak and avocado. Milk is easy to throw down as it's calorie dense, but it ends there. We'll gain weight, but we'd be healthier bulking with better choices.

Being tolerant, and being allergic to milk are actually to very different things. Dairy products promote silent inflammation(reference to Dr. Barry Sears), a harm we cannot feel in the body. So we are all technically allergic to milk. Some of us can just tolerate the GI issues better than others. But tolerance does not directly indicate what internal reactions our body has to the food.
Click to expand...

Milk is not just calorie dense. It is also nutrient dense. I have no issues with milk and I've been drinking it for 50 years. In fact, nothing tastes better than a glass of organic half-and-half. :heart:
 
You really need to watch where you get your information from. There are alot of quake sites out there. If you read most any bodybuilders (competitives ones) diet it includes a gallon or more of milk a day easy. If your watching your sugar maybe you might stay away bit there is nothing wrong with drinking skin milk everyday. As to other dairy yougurt is great for you cottage cheese (fat free) is great. Cheese is more fat ans saturated fat so watch your portion.
 
Whey concentrate messes up my bowels, and i have know problem with milk! I drink tons of it! The fact that the protein shakes affect me that way scares me!
 
angelo212 said:
You really need to watch where you get your information from. There are alot of quake sites out there. If you read most any bodybuilders (competitives ones) diet it includes a gallon or more of milk a day easy. If your watching your sugar maybe you might stay away bit there is nothing wrong with drinking skin milk everyday. As to other dairy yougurt is great for you cottage cheese (fat free) is great. Cheese is more fat ans saturated fat so watch your portion.
Click to expand...

A gallon plus of milk huh, feel bad for the individual's GI tract that does this constant.
 
Nice post!

Question: Is Whey Isolate considered dairy!?!?

Highlanda01602 said:
Dairy is inflammatory to the body (Dr. Sears, Taubes, etc). As we grow past infancy, we, along with every other mammal on Earth, reduces or even loses the ability to create lactase. To a certain extent, we are all allergic to dairy, where some can just tolerate it better than others. The earlier posters who mentioned improvements in their complexion, digestion, and general well-being are removing an inflammatory food source from their diet. We aren't designed to process milk, and even though some can get away with it, it's far far far from ideal. Stick to meats for your protein. I cut out dairy a while ago, and aside from missing cream in the coffee everynow and then (coconut milk is a good sub), I feel great.

We only started drinking milk a few thousand years ago... cows in the Paleolithic era were a different type of creature back then. Vicious. You wouldn't be able to milk it. Just like grains, we just started consuming them. And along came the silent inflammation, which led to the massive influx of auto-immune diseases. F the food pyramid, it's all wrong! Crazy how they got away with that.
Click to expand...
 
At this point in time, I really don't think I can comment on whether or not dairy products are safe for consumption. :nana:
 
Whey isolate concentrate will bother most people who are lactose intolerant

The best one would be whey isolate

Hydrolysate people have problems with because its already broken down into smaller peptides thus causing the problems

Hope this helps to the person who has problems with whey
 
Didn't Arnold say in Pumping Iron that milk is for babies, lol. I think he also said he drinks bear. Anyways I think that milk is for babies and westerners from the past came up with some idea of sucking on a cows tit when they where hungry.
 
"Arnold ate six meals a day during his bodybuilding career. His daily meal plan of choice in the '70s consisted of three large whole-food meals alternated with three whole-food snacks. The total calorie count for his weight-gaining diet was 5,000 a day, which included 300 grams of protein.

* Protein shakes, composed of ingredients available at the time, were always part of Arnold's nutritional plan. His mix of choice was two glasses of milk, 1/2 cup of nonfat milk solids, one egg and 1/2 cup ice cream, all mixed in a blender. These protein drinks often replaced smaller whole-food snacks."
 
HELLO!!!! Some of you missed the point here.

Most of us telling you to avoid milk told you things about how it really was not nessessary etc but our main point was to tell you that you will not become your leanest & get in your most ripped looking condition if you choose to use milk in your diet.

And I love Arnold ( I'm 40 so I grew up with him in the movies) but if we all strived to be like him we would never get ultra ripped nor would we have legs.

Let's relax on here about milk being an allergen or whether it is safe or not.

The main point for this thread was dairy will keep your muscles hidden no matter who you are and like it or not it is what it is.

Use it if you want. I am not going to fight you. I already said that being 40 and being single, having dolts who choose milk in their diets help me looked xtra ripped and I then get their 20 something friends.

I thank you. I am not angry.


peace,
The dogger!
 
I drink at least two glasses of milk a day, milk is amazing! I dont get even slightly bloated when I drink milk/eat cheese dairy, in fact the days I dont drink milk I dont feel as good. Ive also been able to keep my six-pack with consuming lots of milk (not because im drinking it ). On the other hand I have a brother who is the opposite and can only drink small amounts of organic milk. He does have problems with lactose though so that is why obviously. I love organic and raw milk but its cheaper just to buy regular whole milk. 2% and skim milk is worthless!!

I also notice that I feel stronger the days I drink milk. I guess my body just likes dairy :D
 
This is the OP in question. It has to do with health, not "smoothness."


Whacked said:
Im not talking about lactose tolerance issues here.

Unless you've been hiding under a rock, you've seen/read the articles that espouse this notion; specifically, telling you to avoid dairy products for optimal health. But..........WHY?

WHAT exactly is it in dairy that these claims are made? People even link dairy to cancer!

I personally feel MUCH BETTER when eating non-dairy protein sources. Rarely ever sick, don't hold water as bad, never bloated after I eat, more energy. But WHY?

Hell if I know. Anyone shed some light here?
Click to expand...
 
Like I said, Marco have two glasses for me. No, actually, YOU have 4.


love,
Rike...ripped Rike. I like 'em young.
 
If you really enjoy milk and aren't trying to be a competitive bodybuilder, then is removing it completely from your diet even worth it? To me it's not.

Now stuff like ice cream is another story. I don't think drinking 1-2 cups of milk per day is going to hurt much.
 
Marco, Well your wiggler might be bigger than mine but I have to disagree on our dads.

My dad is a Vietnam Vet - a US Marine - no less, so we'll call it even. He still kicks ass. He is the toughest guy I know even at 67.

peace, it is all good!

Rike
 
Rike said:
Marco, Well your wiggler might be bigger than mine but I have to disagree on our dads.

My dad is a Vietnam Vet - a US Marine - no less, so we'll call it even. He still kicks ass. He is the toughest guy I know even at 67.

peace, it is all good!

Rike
Click to expand...

My Dad's really not that tough, but his d*ck is even bigger than mine.
 
A very interesting thread indeed.

One theory is that (cow) diary is so intensively farmed that it causes lots of allergies (already stated). The solution is to switch to goat products.

Lots of hormones are used in milk production (BST?) as well beef production and the cows are loaded to the eyeballs with antibiotics (already stated in the thread). Goats are said not to be reared this intensively.

I've never noticed a difference - or it could be I could give up everything except ice cream

Whacked said:
Im not talking about lactose tolerance issues here.

Unless you've been hiding under a rock, you've seen/read the articles that espouse this notion; specifically, telling you to avoid dairy products for optimal health. But..........WHY?

WHAT exactly is it in dairy that these claims are made? People even link dairy to cancer!

I personally feel MUCH BETTER when eating non-dairy protein sources. Rarely ever sick, don't hold water as bad, never bloated after I eat, more energy. But WHY?

Hell if I know. Anyone shed some light here?
Click to expand...
 
At the time Arnold was using steroids so the rules for people who are "on" like him are different than everyone else.
 
Vegking said:
At the time Arnold was using steroids so the rules for people who are "on" like him are different than everyone else.
Click to expand...

Explain this to me, because I'm having trouble seeing the reason for this.

Are you saying that steroids are actually safer than milk, or something to that effect?

Before steroids, BB's drank even more milk than they do today. It was a staple, ffs.
 
Whey and Casein are derived from milk. Milk will bloat but is good on bulking cycles and most grocery chains have some milk that has no BST, hormones, or antibiotics. I you don't do bulking cycles and also want to look as ripped as possible yes stay away from milk. The city's air that you live in is way worse for you than cow milk. Not to mention that cottage cheese is great at night time and plain yogurt is pro biotic and is really good for your immune system and required when taking an antibiotic which is in your meats if you are not buying from the Amish or a trusted farm. Most of the food out there is f*cked right now. The meat in the cow has the same **** that the milk does if the milk has hormones and antibiotics then so does the meat and that should be more of a concern.
 
Talk about pissing into the wind.

This is going nowhere fast. Thanks for all who participated but this should be closed. This is getting re-****-ulous now.

If you like milk, buy it all from your local store and store it in your basement for Pete's sake. This thread is starting to sound like "chocolate has anti-oxidants so I eat chocolate".

I do not care if you drink milk and you are not allergic or if you drink milk and it gives you a buzz, if you drink milk you will NEVER become as ripped as you would be without it.
PERIOD.

There is a reason why some of us prep winning contestants for shows and the rest of you compete on your own, drink milk and loose. GO FOR IT!
 
If you do some research you will find a 20 year study completed in Italy where they evaluated the long term effects of milk consumption. Other than a few problems with lactose intolerance and allergic reactions in some people there were no other adverse effects. They even studied it's relationship to cancer and found no correlation there ether. However, they don't allow dairy farmers to us BST to increase milk production. BST increases IGF-1 and high levels of IGF-1 are contraindicated in all forms of cancer.
 
spickidy said:
Whey and Casein are derived from milk. Milk will bloat but is good on bulking cycles and most grocery chains have some milk that has no BST, hormones, or antibiotics. I you don't do bulking cycles and also want to look as ripped as possible yes stay away from milk. The city's air that you live in is way worse for you than cow milk. Not to mention that cottage cheese is great at night time and plain yogurt is pro biotic and is really good for your immune system and required when taking an antibiotic which is in your meats if you are not buying from the Amish or a trusted farm. Most of the food out there is f*cked right now. The meat in the cow has the same **** that the milk does if the milk has hormones and antibiotics then so does the meat and that should be more of a concern.
Click to expand...

and fiber is a prebiotic and helps form the natural bacteria in the gut.

Bloat is not really good on cycle in any effect as it can have complications that come along with it. (alterations in natural bowel movements, uncomfort, diareah, high BP (not common but along with the added salt and inflamation in the body you cant discredit that it may come along))

specificly with milk, its an allegin, most people stop producing the enzyme to break it down. that causes more harm then good unless your eating and drinking while your pissing out your ass your dehydrated and thus cant gain to full capacity. plus i for one have had so many issues on leg press when that turtle head startts poppin mid workout or you shart.

seriously though we are talking bout dairy NOT meat, There arent many allergins in meat. however people with gastric disordered and Gall bladder problems probably cant have much meat but thats a different discussion.
 
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