apigenin and EMIQ

TheIronAsylum

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anyone have any opinions on these apigenin and EMIQ they look interesting may start using them
 
LeanEngineer

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in to see what others have to say about this..
 
HIT4ME

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Apigenin is very interesting, but I wouldn't expect much from it stand alone...unless it is for health effects with chronic use. It has some AI activity I guess...but I wouldn't market it as such.
 

TheIronAsylum

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saw these were part of an OG bb coaches new supplement A bolic or something was interested in any opinions but it seems these forums are somewhat dead now
 
Cheeky Monkey

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I tried Natural factors EMIQ based on a study reported on ergolog. I honestly didn’t see anything results; neither in strength or hypertrophy.
 

TheIronAsylum

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iv been taking them for a week now which to early to tell however my sinuses are the bests theyve ever been it feels like i have a whole nother lung breathing wise



anyone take turkesterone? do you need to cycle off that or pct
 

Cordeen

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I started apigenin a week ago and I think I am stopping. Mu sinuses are so clear that I am getting headachea.
 
BigGame84

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I have Swanson Apigenin I plan on using soon. Will be doing 200mg in AM and 200mg in PM.
 

JYD

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Bump. I'm hearing these have natty anabolic qualities. Anyone?
 

Cordeen

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Im doing 50mg twice a day and definitely feel fuller/tighter...eating more and staying lean...sleeping better...BUT the headaches bother me. I may try the parsley approach in turn to see how that goes. A 1/4 tsp a day should give a good helping of apigenin.
 
Resolve10

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Apigenin isn’t terribly expensive to try as an add on (Swanson).

200mg per day seems to be beneficial, but doesn’t seem to be as “easily” noticeable as some things, but more of a look back and see that things (muscle gain, fat inhibition, strength increases) were skewed more positive than without.

I’d like to give it a good shot soon.

EMIQ seems a bit more expensive (from the dosages I’ve seen recommended), but have had my eye on a couple products to give a shot eventually.
 

TheIronAsylum

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I started apigenin a week ago and I think I am stopping. Mu sinuses are so clear that I am getting headachea.
i love that sh it amazingly clear sinuses

anyone find any negatives to these iv been running them both at half dose for like 6 months now just gonna keep them as a staple
 
weltweite

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There is a supplement company on this forum that has a co-crystal version of quercetin. Seems better than EMIQ.

I want to say it was Black Lion Research... but they sell it as part of a complex of other things rather than by itself.

Wish I could find it by itself...

Edit: It is in Follidrone 2.0 and it is Quercetin-Niacin co-crystals:


Quercetin/niacin co crystal
Vasodilator, Increased VO2 Max,
Absorption


Quercetin niacin co_crystals are a whole new ingredient. Everyone knows about quercetin and niacin but quercetin has very poor oral bioavailability and niacin causes severe flushing at decent doses. Bonding the molecules together increases the absorption of Quercetin many times over and prevents the Niacin flush. Quercetin has been mentioned for everything from endurance and an increase in VO2 Max to fat loss to its strong antioxidant effect, however, for our purpose we added it specifically for its ability to increase the absorption of our other ingredients. Specifically, epicatechin. Its as just an added bonus we get all the benefits of both quercetin and niacin which includes vasodilation and improved cholesterol levels making this a star ingredient we plan on adding in high amounts in our coming PRE WORKOUT product.
 
BigGame84

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There is a supplement company on this forum that has a co-crystal version of quercetin. Seems better than EMIQ.

I want to say it was Black Lion Research... but they sell it as part of a complex of other things rather than by itself.

Wish I could find it by itself...

Edit: It is in Follidrone 2.0 and it is Quercetin-Niacin co-crystals:


Quercetin/niacin co crystal
Vasodilator, Increased VO2 Max,
Absorption


Quercetin niacin co_crystals are a whole new ingredient. Everyone knows about quercetin and niacin but quercetin has very poor oral bioavailability and niacin causes severe flushing at decent doses. Bonding the molecules together increases the absorption of Quercetin many times over and prevents the Niacin flush. Quercetin has been mentioned for everything from endurance and an increase in VO2 Max to fat loss to its strong antioxidant effect, however, for our purpose we added it specifically for its ability to increase the absorption of our other ingredients. Specifically, epicatechin. Its as just an added bonus we get all the benefits of both quercetin and niacin which includes vasodilation and improved cholesterol levels making this a star ingredient we plan on adding in high amounts in our coming PRE WORKOUT product.

It's also in Antaeus Labs Thunderbolt.
 
weltweite

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It's also in Antaeus Labs Thunderbolt.
Good to know - was not familiar with Thunderbolt but it looks good.

Also just saw that Evomuse DCP had quercetin-theobromine cocrystals in it

Quercetin-Theobromine cocrystals
Quercetin is one of the most studied flavonoids, and has tons of extremely impressive research backing its benefits. Problem is, most of that research is either in vitro, or, in animals with dissimilar digestion/absorption framework.

The reason for the lack of good human in vivo data, is that the efficacy of this nutrient is extremely limited in humans due to low bioavailability, caused by low aqueous solubility and minimal absorption in the gut. The human liver also does a number on it through some pretty unfavorable conjugation.

One study in particular looked at human ingestion of a huge oral dose of quercetin (4g), and found no measurable increase in plasma or urine quercetin concentrations…yikes. What the researchers did find, however, was that about 53% of the quercetin dose was recovered in subject’s feces, suggesting extensive degradation by microorganisms in the gut (44).

Now comes the cool part.

Cocrystals are multi-component molecular crystals that dramatically improve bioavailability of certain nutrients (flavonoids in particular). By turning quercetin into a cocrystal with theobromine, the pharmacokinetic properties become vastly superior, and this process yields a quercetin which is able to completely overcome the problem of water insolubility and bioavailability (45).

This means we can finally reap all of the awesome benefits of quercetin.

For our purposes in the DCP formula, these benefits relate to multiple, potent angles to augment fat loss.

First things first, quercetin has a very high binding affinity to the aforementioned FTO gene. This means it will basically put FTO in a headlock and prevent it from carrying out its diabolical plan to keep you from losing fat. Through FTO inhibition, quercetin will favorably tip the lipolysis/adipogenesis ratio, encouraging fat loss while reducing fat storage (46,47).

Then it hits that same idea through a different pathway, just to be sure. Specifically, it does so by increasing the expression of ATGL and HSL, while downregulating FAS, LPL, and aP2 (48). Simply put, it cranks up fat burning enzymes while suppressing fat storing enzymes.

Quercetin also targets the AMPK pathway. Here’s what you need to know about AMPK in 10 seconds:

AMPK is an enzyme that regulates energy balance. When activated, it triggers fat oxidation (liver and skeletal muscle), puts the brakes on fat storage, encourages ketone production, tells the muscles to take up glucose, and as a few other cool things. Some of the benefits of exercise can be tied back to simple AMPK activation.

Quercetin has been shown to favorably regulate this AMPK pathway under several conditions, including overfeeding (49). It has also been shown to activate AMPK in both normal and insulin resistant metabolic conditions (AMPK signaling can get pretty botched in insulin resistant folks) (50).

Supplemental quercetin (given to mice) suppressed fat storage hormones, inhibited lipid accumulation in fat cells, and reduced body weight by almost 40%! (51).

Several animal studies have looked at the administration of a fattening diet, with and without quercetin, to see if any benefit from supplementation can be found. Here’s a couple of highlights:

1.Quercetin group had significantly reduced body weight gain, liver weight gain, fat gain, as well as lower cholesterol and triglycerides. The researchers suggested that through the downregulation of lipogenesis, quercetin may help prevent diet induced obesity (52).
2.Quercetin vs. several other flavonoids, quercetin outperformed everything else by preventing bodyweight gain (moreso than all of the others) over 12 weeks of overfeeding. It also reduced visceral fat, leptin, and even lowered the diet induced accumulation of liver fat by 71% (53).

Excess body fat tends to coincide with adipose tissue inflammation, which contributes to a dysfunctional fat cell and dysregulated adipokine secretion (54). Fat cells should be able to store fat (necessary for survival), and then also be good at releasing it to fuel the body’s energy demands. The more excess fat you pack on, the more this in/out process goes haywire, and the “in” switch gets stuck on.

It’s a complex process, so here’s what you need to know: Quercetin reduces fat cell inflammation, which should allow fat cells to respond better to dieting/calorie restriction (51,55). Through a direct effect on mitochondrial processes in the fat cell, quercetin favorably modulates multiple adipokines (54).

Lastly, quercetin can actually prevent the differentiation of stromal cells into adipocytes, which is a huge metabolic benefit (48).
 
HIT4ME

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Good to know - was not familiar with Thunderbolt but it looks good.

Also just saw that Evomuse DCP had quercetin-theobromine cocrystals in it

Quercetin-Theobromine cocrystals
Quercetin is one of the most studied flavonoids, and has tons of extremely impressive research backing its benefits. Problem is, most of that research is either in vitro, or, in animals with dissimilar digestion/absorption framework.

The reason for the lack of good human in vivo data, is that the efficacy of this nutrient is extremely limited in humans due to low bioavailability, caused by low aqueous solubility and minimal absorption in the gut. The human liver also does a number on it through some pretty unfavorable conjugation.

One study in particular looked at human ingestion of a huge oral dose of quercetin (4g), and found no measurable increase in plasma or urine quercetin concentrations…yikes. What the researchers did find, however, was that about 53% of the quercetin dose was recovered in subject’s feces, suggesting extensive degradation by microorganisms in the gut (44).

Now comes the cool part.

Cocrystals are multi-component molecular crystals that dramatically improve bioavailability of certain nutrients (flavonoids in particular). By turning quercetin into a cocrystal with theobromine, the pharmacokinetic properties become vastly superior, and this process yields a quercetin which is able to completely overcome the problem of water insolubility and bioavailability (45).

This means we can finally reap all of the awesome benefits of quercetin.

For our purposes in the DCP formula, these benefits relate to multiple, potent angles to augment fat loss.

First things first, quercetin has a very high binding affinity to the aforementioned FTO gene. This means it will basically put FTO in a headlock and prevent it from carrying out its diabolical plan to keep you from losing fat. Through FTO inhibition, quercetin will favorably tip the lipolysis/adipogenesis ratio, encouraging fat loss while reducing fat storage (46,47).

Then it hits that same idea through a different pathway, just to be sure. Specifically, it does so by increasing the expression of ATGL and HSL, while downregulating FAS, LPL, and aP2 (48). Simply put, it cranks up fat burning enzymes while suppressing fat storing enzymes.

Quercetin also targets the AMPK pathway. Here’s what you need to know about AMPK in 10 seconds:

AMPK is an enzyme that regulates energy balance. When activated, it triggers fat oxidation (liver and skeletal muscle), puts the brakes on fat storage, encourages ketone production, tells the muscles to take up glucose, and as a few other cool things. Some of the benefits of exercise can be tied back to simple AMPK activation.

Quercetin has been shown to favorably regulate this AMPK pathway under several conditions, including overfeeding (49). It has also been shown to activate AMPK in both normal and insulin resistant metabolic conditions (AMPK signaling can get pretty botched in insulin resistant folks) (50).

Supplemental quercetin (given to mice) suppressed fat storage hormones, inhibited lipid accumulation in fat cells, and reduced body weight by almost 40%! (51).

Several animal studies have looked at the administration of a fattening diet, with and without quercetin, to see if any benefit from supplementation can be found. Here’s a couple of highlights:

1.Quercetin group had significantly reduced body weight gain, liver weight gain, fat gain, as well as lower cholesterol and triglycerides. The researchers suggested that through the downregulation of lipogenesis, quercetin may help prevent diet induced obesity (52).
2.Quercetin vs. several other flavonoids, quercetin outperformed everything else by preventing bodyweight gain (moreso than all of the others) over 12 weeks of overfeeding. It also reduced visceral fat, leptin, and even lowered the diet induced accumulation of liver fat by 71% (53).

Excess body fat tends to coincide with adipose tissue inflammation, which contributes to a dysfunctional fat cell and dysregulated adipokine secretion (54). Fat cells should be able to store fat (necessary for survival), and then also be good at releasing it to fuel the body’s energy demands. The more excess fat you pack on, the more this in/out process goes haywire, and the “in” switch gets stuck on.

It’s a complex process, so here’s what you need to know: Quercetin reduces fat cell inflammation, which should allow fat cells to respond better to dieting/calorie restriction (51,55). Through a direct effect on mitochondrial processes in the fat cell, quercetin favorably modulates multiple adipokines (54).

Lastly, quercetin can actually prevent the differentiation of stromal cells into adipocytes, which is a huge metabolic benefit (48).
@dsade is working on some new uses for quercetin that I think are pretty exciting - re-reading that write up in light of some of the stuff we've been discussing is pretty interesting.
 
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