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AP; whats the concensus?

Motiv8er,,,,,Funny HOW!! Like I'm a clown, like I F'in make u laugh, no you tell me how am i funny?!

Simmer down honey. :)

I havent had to look through your posts, you I remember. :)

Yes you make me laugh, nothing like a clown though. You are a person who loves to help people. It takes a special kind of person to put others before themselves. There has to be a however. However, you arent the best at seeking help for yourself. You are at your best helping others, it is what you are good at. So funny, but like a Homer Simpson kind of way.

I could imagine you running into a burning vehicle to help a stranger. I could also see you putting a scoop of dry whey protein into your mouth because it tasted good. ( I tried this once, I blew powder like Mount Vesuvious(sp) and choked for hours)

Dont let me sound like I know you, of course I do not. But I try to pay attention to everyone who is here, and you have always set off many flags. All of them sincere, and some in sincere need of atheletic guidence.

As far as the ribbing goes, dude, most people here would claim my best workout position was with my pants around my ankles and them behind me. Claiming you were an herbal non-responder in two days made my day. Dont take it personally, it was funny. Tell us all how geigh we are, and report back in a few weeks and tell us if you are still non-responding; and remind us of how geigh we are then too.

Best of luck. :)
 
OK i knew when i mqade my post that i was leaving myself open to criticism, however let me address the blatant mockery to which i have been subjected.
To the Test E guy, the analogy is completely off base, being that Test E is a compound with a multitude of clinical science and documented use protocols behind it, and anyone using it should know that it requires a buildup in the blood serum to a Therapeutic Threshold, which requires far more than two days use.
Test E's pharmacodynamics are also completely different than what is claimed for AP. If AP worked at all in the manner that is proposed for it, one could assume some degree of first dose efficacy. Blood sugar level impacts are very noticable even with minimal change to the measured serum content. I therefore feel that after 2 full days, 6 doses total, that it is fair to say I have yet to "feel" anything; pumps, strength gains, hypoglycemic manifestations etc.
You're missing my point, this isn't something you take for immediate effects instead it's a supplement that for (what I feel is) the majority of users needs to be taken over a longer period of time for it's effects to be noticed and if you're insulin resistant then you probably won't feel jack **** for a while. 3 days is insufficient time to judge a product of this nature.
 
ok, i take it no one has seen "Goodfellas" otherwise they would have known i was using joe pescis scene in the movie which i believe was the funniest part of that movie, that being said, my post was humorous, far from aggressive or serious.

As far as me being resistant that is laughable, as my body fat is quite low and i have lived a holistic whole foods, 0 refined sugar diet for many years, excepting occasional consumption of postworkout mixes with quick carbs.

i dont bodybuild , i am an athlete pure and simple, having played professional indoor football (well at least i was on the team), and competing in judo and submission grappling events.

In fact for the most part, i dont lift weights, 90 percent off my training is bodyweight, chains, running ,grappling etc.
I am quite in tune with my body, and still feel it fair to say, that now into 3 days of AP i still "feel" nothing. I will probably be out of luck as i only brought 14 days worth with me to iraq, as i put it into a small vitamin c bottle, cause i didnt want customs people reading "anabolic" and dumping it, so i will use it for 2 weeks till its gone and see what happens.
God bless america and GW EZ
 
ok, i take it no one has seen "Goodfellas" otherwise they would have known i was using joe pescis scene in the movie which i believe was the funniest part of that movie, that being said, my post was humorous, far from aggressive or serious.

As far as me being resistant that is laughable, as my body fat is quite low and i have lived a holistic whole foods, 0 refined sugar diet for many years, excepting occasional consumption of postworkout mixes with quick carbs.

i dont bodybuild , i am an athlete pure and simple, having played professional indoor football (well at least i was on the team), and competing in judo and submission grappling events.

In fact for the most part, i dont lift weights, 90 percent off my training is bodyweight, chains, running ,grappling etc.
I am quite in tune with my body, and still feel it fair to say, that now into 3 days of AP i still "feel" nothing. I will probably be out of luck as i only brought 14 days worth with me to iraq, as i put it into a small vitamin c bottle, cause i didnt want customs people reading "anabolic" and dumping it, so i will use it for 2 weeks till its gone and see what happens.
God bless america and GW EZ

Well that's great, once again, you state you dont' "feel" anything without quantifying your statements above.

Anyway, I got the Goodfellas reference and thought it was pretty funny.
 
delton, i surely agree with you that the timing and conditions of ingesting this supplement are critical to realizing results, at the same time, your experience indicates positive first dose efficacy, which may leave you open to scorn by all the self described experts on this forum.

I tend to hypoglycemic type reactions, so maybe I'm a "super-responder" to AP. Even without AP, I have to be careful not to drink fruit juice in the morning, or to eat sugary things when I'm already hungry. When I'm hungry, I really need to eat, and it's very hard for me to skip meals.

But anyway, I certainly did have a noticeable effect on the very first dose. The noticeable effect was that I was that I became very hungry and got hungry again quickly. I'm not saying I saw a "pump"... I've never really seen a pump, although I did gain several pounds in the first two weeks, and my muscles looked fuller then.
 
Claiming you were an herbal non-responder in two days made my day.

Hmmm....water hemlock anyone? Maybe just consume it for only one day, several doses, and you should be just fine...since we all know that a plant based product will take weeks to respond. Or...maybe not. I would not test that theory on something like water hemlock. Point is...some plants and their extracts do work their magic over time, but there are others that have a more immediate effect...even with only one dose.

I fully understand what emilio is referring. Based upon the initial marketing of AP, I do not think it unusual for one to be looking for the initial, more immediate effects that so many others have reported. Particularly, the so called pumps of the shuttling of glycogen into the muscle cells, as well as other things one might notice because of the MOA.

On the other hand, the effects on body fat, muscle gain, and overall composition will certainly take longer to manifest. I was on AP for well over two months (just recently took a break). So far I have not been able to see or measure any change in overall body composition, which to me, is the main reason for using the product based upon the marketing behind the product.

I did "notice" the product doing "something" on the very 1st day and days after. Not all of it would I classify as pleasant, as some of the sides I did not like. I will continue to "test" the product again after a reasonable break.

I cannot figure out how to place a link to a specific post only, so below is a copy of my review from another thread.........

"JMHO, I think there are a lot of unanswered questions as to just exactly what effects AP may have. It is one thing to say a product does this or that, but it is always good to see some kind of actual scientific evidence. I too have jumped on the bandwagon, based upon the very clever marketing of this product, with hope and faith that it does what is said. I have been on AP for the most part now, for over two months.

The first couple of days, I also noticed some slight intestinal cramping. Then that seemed to settle out somewhat after a few days. Plus, I found that I needed to be sure I got at least 40 to 60 grams of carbs within 30 min. of taking it. That was not that hard to do and I did not add many calories to my diet, just a little, maybe. So I do not think this has anything to do with bloating or cramping. I certainly believe that it has something to do with the effects of AP.

The more troublesome side effect the first few days was some sharp pains in the upper chest, mainly the left side. So this was definitely of some concern. The pangs were not extremely painful or anything like that, but definitely enough to cause concern. I too can only attribute that to the AP. As with the cramps and bloating, this pain also became less noticeable after several days to a week. I eventually attributed the chest pains to the same cause as the abdominal cramps...gas. In this case, pockets of gas within the chest cavity. If there are any doctors reading this, I would welcome your thoughts on this.

I have also noticed what I would think of as pumps. Most noticeably, in my arms. They do appear to be more pumped, slightly harder, a little more veins showing, when the full effects of the AP seem to kick in. During the 1st several weeks on AP, I noticed that the two days after a particular workout, I would be noticeably more sore than I have been in awhile. Like the soreness that people talk about with X-factor. Particularly in my chest and arms. But now, I do not seem to notice that as much.

So yes, something is definitely happening. I just am not sure what at this point. I would love to see some real evidence that AP does what is claimed, and not just anecdotal evidence, although, that is of interest as well. I mean, if a lot of people are seeing real world results, that is better than if they do not.

My point though is that just because you "feel" something, feel changes, it does not mean that the product is doing what is claimed, until that is proven scientifically. What you are experiencing might eventually be able to be explained through a different mechanism than the "offered marketing". We really do not know exactly what is in the product...we only know, from the labeling, from what plants the extracts come from, but we are not given the exact nature of the extracts. There are many substances in Phellodendron, for example. And to me, this is one of the things I do not like about so called proprietary products, of which there are many. I just believe and feel that we should be able to know exactly what it is that we are putting in our bodies.

And yet, I too am on this bandwagon, because I wanted to find out for myself if this could do what is claimed. So far, I have no evidence that it does. In fact, after nearly two and a half months, lately, my love handles appear larger and more fatty...not a lot, but I had hoped and expected to see the opposite result. So at this point I still have a lot of reservations whether AP can deliver the marketing claims, but I will continue with it and see what develops.

Also, I got my wife on it about two weeks ago, and she has reported no side effects. But then, she has not really noticed much of anything, which to me is strange. But she does not work out nearly as hard with weights as I do. But then one day, when I asked her again if she did not notice anything, any pumps, she remarked..."oh, yea...I was really sore today after my workout from yesterday. I wonder if that was the result of the AP?" .... I told her, yep, most likely. You're feeling the pump.

But feeling a pump does not = less body fat and better body composition, which is the real reason for taking this product. It remains to be seen by us so far."
 
Hmmm....water hemlock anyone? Maybe just consume it for only one day, several doses, and you should be just fine...since we all know that a plant based product will take weeks to respond. Or...maybe not. I would not test that theory on something like water hemlock. Point is...some plants and their extracts do work their magic over time, but there are others that have a more immediate effect...even with only one dose.

I fully understand what emilio is referring. Based upon the initial marketing of AP, I do not think it unusual for one to be looking for the initial, more immediate effects that so many others have reported. Particularly, the so called pumps of the shuttling of glycogen into the muscle cells, as well as other things one might notice because of the MOA.

On the other hand, the effects on body fat, muscle gain, and overall composition will certainly take longer to manifest. I was on AP for well over two months (just recently took a break). So far I have not been able to see or measure any change in overall body composition, which to me, is the main reason for using the product based upon the marketing behind the product.

I did "notice" the product doing "something" on the very 1st day and days after. Not all of it would I classify as pleasant, as some of the sides I did not like. I will continue to "test" the product again after a reasonable break.

I cannot figure out how to place a link to a specific post only, so below is a copy of my review from another thread.........

"JMHO, I think there are a lot of unanswered questions as to just exactly what effects AP may have. It is one thing to say a product does this or that, but it is always good to see some kind of actual scientific evidence. I too have jumped on the bandwagon, based upon the very clever marketing of this product, with hope and faith that it does what is said. I have been on AP for the most part now, for over two months.

The first couple of days, I also noticed some slight intestinal cramping. Then that seemed to settle out somewhat after a few days. Plus, I found that I needed to be sure I got at least 40 to 60 grams of carbs within 30 min. of taking it. That was not that hard to do and I did not add many calories to my diet, just a little, maybe. So I do not think this has anything to do with bloating or cramping. I certainly believe that it has something to do with the effects of AP.

The more troublesome side effect the first few days was some sharp pains in the upper chest, mainly the left side. So this was definitely of some concern. The pangs were not extremely painful or anything like that, but definitely enough to cause concern. I too can only attribute that to the AP. As with the cramps and bloating, this pain also became less noticeable after several days to a week. I eventually attributed the chest pains to the same cause as the abdominal cramps...gas. In this case, pockets of gas within the chest cavity. If there are any doctors reading this, I would welcome your thoughts on this.

I have also noticed what I would think of as pumps. Most noticeably, in my arms. They do appear to be more pumped, slightly harder, a little more veins showing, when the full effects of the AP seem to kick in. During the 1st several weeks on AP, I noticed that the two days after a particular workout, I would be noticeably more sore than I have been in awhile. Like the soreness that people talk about with X-factor. Particularly in my chest and arms. But now, I do not seem to notice that as much.

So yes, something is definitely happening. I just am not sure what at this point. I would love to see some real evidence that AP does what is claimed, and not just anecdotal evidence, although, that is of interest as well. I mean, if a lot of people are seeing real world results, that is better than if they do not.

My point though is that just because you "feel" something, feel changes, it does not mean that the product is doing what is claimed, until that is proven scientifically. What you are experiencing might eventually be able to be explained through a different mechanism than the "offered marketing". We really do not know exactly what is in the product...we only know, from the labeling, from what plants the extracts come from, but we are not given the exact nature of the extracts. There are many substances in Phellodendron, for example. And to me, this is one of the things I do not like about so called proprietary products, of which there are many. I just believe and feel that we should be able to know exactly what it is that we are putting in our bodies.

And yet, I too am on this bandwagon, because I wanted to find out for myself if this could do what is claimed. So far, I have no evidence that it does. In fact, after nearly two and a half months, lately, my love handles appear larger and more fatty...not a lot, but I had hoped and expected to see the opposite result. So at this point I still have a lot of reservations whether AP can deliver the marketing claims, but I will continue with it and see what develops.

Also, I got my wife on it about two weeks ago, and she has reported no side effects. But then, she has not really noticed much of anything, which to me is strange. But she does not work out nearly as hard with weights as I do. But then one day, when I asked her again if she did not notice anything, any pumps, she remarked..."oh, yea...I was really sore today after my workout from yesterday. I wonder if that was the result of the AP?" .... I told her, yep, most likely. You're feeling the pump.

But feeling a pump does not = less body fat and better body composition, which is the real reason for taking this product. It remains to be seen by us so far."

Empirical evidence, such as this perhaps?:

Tannic acid stimulates glucose transport and inhibits adipocyte differentiation in 3T3-L1 cells.Liu X, Kim JK, Li Y, Li J, Liu F, Chen X.
Department of Biochemistry, Edison Biotechnology Institute, College of Osteopathic Medicine, Ohio University, Athens, OH 45701, USA.

Obesity is a major risk factor for Syndrome X and type II diabetes (T2D). However, most antidiabetic drugs that are hypoglycemic also promote weight gain, thus alleviating one symptom of T2D while aggravating a major risk factor that leads to T2D. Adipogenesis, the differentiation and proliferation of adipocytes, is a major mechanism leading to weight gain and obesity. It is highly desirable to develop pharmaceuticals and treatments for T2D that reduce blood glucose levels without inducing adipogenesis in patients. Previously, we reported that an extract from Lagerstroemia speciosa L. (banaba) possessed activities that both stimulated glucose transport and inhibited adipocyte differentiation in 3T3-L1 cells. Using glucose uptake assays and Western/Northern blot analyses as major tools and 3T3-L1 cells as a model, we showed that the banaba extract (BE) with tannin removed was devoid of the 2 activities, and tannic acid (TA), a major component of tannins, had the same 2 activities as BE. Inhibitors known to abolish insulin-induced glucose transport also blocked TA-induced glucose transport. We further detected that TA induced phosphorylation of the insulin receptor (IR) and Akt, as well as translocation of glucose transporter 4 (GLUT 4), the protein factors involved in the signaling pathway of insulin-mediated glucose transport. We also demonstrated that TA inhibited the expression of key genes for adipogenesis. Differences between samples with or without TA in all of the quantitative assays were significant (P < 0.05). These results suggest that TA may be useful for the prevention and treatment of T2D and its associated obesity. TA may have the potential to become the lead compound in the development of new types of antidiabetic pharmaceuticals that are able to reduce blood glucose levels without increasing adiposity.

Or this:

Diabetes. 2006 Aug ;55:2256-64 16873688

Berberine, a Natural Plant Product, Activates AMP-Activated Protein Kinase With Beneficial Metabolic Effects in Diabetic and Insulin-Resistant States.

Yun S Lee , Woo S Kim , Kang H Kim , Myung J Yoon , Hye J Cho , Yun Shen , Ji-Ming Ye , Chul H Lee , Won K Oh , Chul T Kim , Cordula Hohnen-Behrens , Alison Gosby , Edward W Kraegen , David E James , Jae B Kim

Berberine has been shown to have antidiabetic properties, although its mode of action is not known. Here, we have investigated the metabolic effects of berberine in two animal models of insulin resistance and in insulin-responsive cell lines. Berberine reduced body weight and caused a significant improvement in glucose tolerance without altering food intake in db/db mice. Similarly, berberine reduced body weight and plasma triglycerides and improved insulin action in high-fat-fed Wistar rats. Berberine downregulated the expression of genes involved in lipogenesis and upregulated those involved in energy expenditure in adipose tissue and muscle. Berberine treatment resulted in increased AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) activity in 3T3-L1 adipocytes and L6 myotubes, increased GLUT4 translocation in L6 cells in a phosphatidylinositol 3' kinase-independent manner, and reduced lipid accumulation in 3T3-L1 adipocytes. These findings suggest that berberine displays beneficial effects in the treatment of diabetes and obesity at least in part via stimulation of AMPK activity.

Or this:

A Valuable Alkaloid from Herbs for "Damp-Heat" Syndromes

by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D., Director, Institute for Traditional Medicine, Portland, Oregon

BLOOD SUGAR
Research on use of berberine for diabetes began with Ni Yanxi and his colleagues in Changchun (a large city in Jilin Province) with diabetes treatments. As an introduction to a 1995 English language publication on this subject (presenting their earlier clinical data from 1983-1987), they wrote (5): "It was found by accident that berberine had the therapeutic effect on the decrease of blood glucose when the authors used berberine to treat diarrhea in patients who suffered from diabetes."

Dietary therapy was first introduced to the patients for one month. For those who still had high fasting blood sugar, berberine was administered orally at a dose of 300, 400, or 500 mg each time, three times daily, adjusting the dosage according to the blood glucose levels; this treatment was followed for 1-3 months. A control group without diabetes was similarly treated, with no effect on blood sugar. For the diabetic patients, it was reported that patients had less thirst, consumed less water and urinated less, had improved strength, and had lower blood pressure; the symptoms declined in correspondence with declining blood glucose levels. Laboratory studies suggest that berberine may have at least two functions in relation to reducing blood sugar: inhibiting absorption of sugars from the intestine and enhancing production of insulin. As relayed by Ni in his review of the literature, clinical experience with berberine has shown that doses of 2 grams per day produced no side effects.

REFERERENCE:

Ni Yanxia, et al., Therapeutic effect of berberine on 60 patients with non-insulin dependent diabetes mellitus and experimental research, Chinese Journal of Integrated Traditional and Western Medicine 1995; 1(2); 91-95.

KBP, you seem very adept at making completely subjective and anecdotal remarks on the efficacy of a product. However, please, please at least do some simply legwork before you question the legitimacy of the research behind a product.

I realize real-world experience is very important, but your statements are glaringly contradictory, and are akin to

I have no evidence it works as such, so it must not

Apparently the theme of this thread is to question the science behind a product before one does some very simple and quick leg work. Regardless of what your personal, subjective experience is, the research is there. Make whatever claims you wish based on your own experience but do not attempt to extrapolate that to others, or make any claims on whether or not the product "does what it says".
 
I would like to chime in here and state that my initial reply was in response to an individual asking for people's impressions on the product, i gave what i believe was a fair response, limited by the voluntarily given fact of only two days of use, admitting as such ,that body comp changes would not be evident, yet reporting nothing of the superficial affects which a multitude of users reported, with rapid manifestation. Perhaps as rapid as, per your advertising " as fast as a speeding bullet".

You come on to say perhaps i am insulin resistant and that is why it is not working, yet all the "studies" you post, refer to the efficacy of said substances in diabetic and resistant subjects, a clear conundrum for me.

AP may work, but your advertising is full of hyperbole and ranks right up with, if not surpassing Muscletech; so dont be offended when your product doesn't live up to it's own hype.
USP Labs has changed, and i am sorry to say , IMHO not for the better.
 
Haha.

I think we need to review how to use "" in this thread. The use of "" in reference to another's comments are meant to inject a bit of ironic detachment from said statement in the form of sarcasm. Now, this is usually efficacious when you have a legitimate reason for being sarcastic. Using "" on the word studies in this case anyway, is not legitimate. I fail to see how they are not relevant, but I digress.

I said a possible reason WHY YOU HAVE NOT SEEN RESULTS AFTER TWO FVCKING DAYS is that you are possibly insulin resistant.
 
Crap, by the time I realize the "gimp" is out of his cage the "expletive" has already hit the fan!

Down Mullet, down!
 
I would like to chime in here and state that my initial reply was in response to an individual asking for people's impressions on the product, i gave what i believe was a fair response, limited by the voluntarily given fact of only two days of use, admitting as such ,that body comp changes would not be evident, yet reporting nothing of the superficial affects which a multitude of users reported, with rapid manifestation. Perhaps as rapid as, per your advertising " as fast as a speeding bullet".

You come on to say perhaps i am insulin resistant and that is why it is not working, yet all the "studies" you post, refer to the efficacy of said substances in diabetic and resistant subjects, a clear conundrum for me.

AP may work, but your advertising is full of hyperbole and ranks right up with, if not surpassing Muscletech; so dont be offended when your product doesn't live up to it's own hype.
USP Labs has changed, and i am sorry to say , IMHO not for the better.

BTW-

I thought you were referencing Goodfellas. I hoped you were. Good reference.
 
You sir have PubMed posted the correct. I was in fact being quite obtuse in putting the quotes around the word. Look, the only reason i used the quotations for the word studies, was because i grow tired of people using the copy and paste method for posted this data, purporting to verify their products MOA, when they most likely have never themselves performed any sort of data collection methodologies that would hold up to the scientific method standard. USP did not initiate or substantiate any of that data in a laboratory setting, so yes, i find it disingenuous when said data is used in a randomized fashion, and masqueraded to be solid , verifiable, proof of efficacy. My Bad.
 
ok, i take it no one has seen "Goodfellas" otherwise they would have known i was using joe pescis scene in the movie which i believe was the funniest part of that movie, that being said, my post was humorous, far from aggressive or serious.

As far as me being resistant that is laughable, as my body fat is quite low and i have lived a holistic whole foods, 0 refined sugar diet for many years, excepting occasional consumption of postworkout mixes with quick carbs.

i dont bodybuild , i am an athlete pure and simple, having played professional indoor football (well at least i was on the team), and competing in judo and submission grappling events.

In fact for the most part, i dont lift weights, 90 percent off my training is bodyweight, chains, running ,grappling etc.
I am quite in tune with my body, and still feel it fair to say, that now into 3 days of AP i still "feel" nothing. I will probably be out of luck as i only brought 14 days worth with me to iraq, as i put it into a small vitamin c bottle, cause i didnt want customs people reading "anabolic" and dumping it, so i will use it for 2 weeks till its gone and see what happens.
God bless america and GW EZ

Goodfella's? That went right over my head! ;) I need to watch that movie again. :)

Workin
 
I would like to chime in here and state that my initial reply was in response to an individual asking for people's impressions on the product, i gave what i believe was a fair response, limited by the voluntarily given fact of only two days of use, admitting as such ,that body comp changes would not be evident, yet reporting nothing of the superficial affects which a multitude of users reported, with rapid manifestation. Perhaps as rapid as, per your advertising " as fast as a speeding bullet".

You come on to say perhaps i am insulin resistant and that is why it is not working, yet all the "studies" you post, refer to the efficacy of said substances in diabetic and resistant subjects, a clear conundrum for me.

AP may work, but your advertising is full of hyperbole and ranks right up with, if not surpassing Muscletech; so dont be offended when your product doesn't live up to it's own hype.
USP Labs has changed, and i am sorry to say , IMHO not for the better.

Everything in our advertisement was proven anecdotally and supported by research. In print advertising (the audience outside the forum), you spend 5-10k per page to sale a product.

Mullet is not a Pubmed Ninja that copies and pastes. He understands the nature of the abstract.

Please give the supplement a fair go before considering yourself an non responder.

take care
 
Today was my first day on AP. I am pretty sensitive to carbs, so I was hoping for good things with it. First impression: I felt the "hypo" effect very strongly. I was actually dizzy. That was a bit worrisome. Also, after taking it I was almost insatiable. At the last meal I took it before I ate until my stomach hurt from the volume of food, but I still wanted more. Lastly, I think I look a bit tighter than I normally would after a high-carb day, but that could be my imagination. Overall a very promising first day.

There is no risk of AP sending one's blood sugar too low and causing serious damage like there is with insulin, correct?
 
I ordered some AP earlier this week, should be arriving soon, which is great because I am a carb hungry bear :pizza:

Basically just hoping to minimize fat gain while I sallyforth in search of greater strength :head:
 
good pumps pretty much all day, but nothing else to speak of. no change in body comp and gained like 2 lbs....its a fine product, but not earth shattering like the claims make it out to be. and a bit pricey. personally i think there are better options....jungle warfare would be one
 
Empirical evidence, such as this perhaps?:

KBP, you seem very adept at making completely subjective and anecdotal remarks on the efficacy of a product. However, please, please at least do some simply legwork before you question the legitimacy of the research behind a product.

Hello Mullet....1st, thanks for publishing those studies. They are interesting...I have already read a number of studies on berberine, actually. But since the labeling on AP does NOT anywhere mention berberine as an ingredient, the consumer cannot and should not automatically assume that it is one of the main ingredients. (I say this in response to your above statement..."please at least do some simply legwork before you question the legitimacy of the research behind a product.")

There are many compounds in Phellodendron and from what I have observed, USP has not been forthcoming with the exact nature of the extracts from the Phellodendron. The label does state Tannins Complex from the banaba, so that seems helpful in regards to the above study. I remember a post a while back on a thread, where someone asked if AP then was just berberine and banaba. Many posts came after without anyone from USP replying to that. Hmmm....so are you now saying that the main ingredients are in fact berberine and extract of banaba with the tannins?

I have attempted to research this product as best I could in the past, with limited info as to exact ingredients.

Even though the above studies are interesting and informative for the specific extracts, I do not see how they can be seen as conclusive evidence that AP will provide the benefits as marketed, but rather, that there is some potential. Note that in the above studies, at times they use words like "may" and "suggest". (Not saying that Mullet said it was conclusive, either.) Now, if a study were to be done with AP similar to what was done with X-factor at Baylor Univ., and the results met with similar success, that would be exciting. That would be empirical evidence, with the actual product, as studied on humans.

Mulletsoldier said:
I realize real-world experience is very important, but your statements are glaringly contradictory, and are akin to
Quote:
I have no evidence it works as such, so it must not

I acknowledge the use of the word "akin" in referring to the above quote, but just to be perfectly clear, that is not a statement that I made. I stated "I wanted to find out for myself if this could do what is claimed. So far, I have no evidence that it does.......but I will continue with it and see what develops." And I noted that this was from well over two months of usage, btw.


Mulletsoldier said:
Apparently the theme of this thread is to question the science behind a product before one does some very simple and quick leg work. Regardless of what your personal, subjective experience is, the research is there. Make whatever claims you wish based on your own experience but do not attempt to extrapolate that to others, or make any claims on whether or not the product "does what it says".

Hmmm....and I thought the theme of this thread was "AP; what's the consensus?" "For those of you that have tried this product does it do what it claims?"

Mullet, I have read many of your posts with appreciation and interest, and you provide much valuable input. But I must say that I think the following statement is completely off base .... "Make whatever claims you wish based on your own experience but do not attempt to extrapolate that to others, or make any claims on whether or not the product 'does what it says'."

I do not believe that I made any specific claims. I only stated the experiences that I have had so far with the product, and that I have some questions regarding whether the MOA of AP is as claimed. I think that many would agree that USP has made claims about AP, and that the claims are very remarkable. If AP can actually do what has been said, then it truly would be one of the most remarkable new products since the introduction of creatine. Such remarkable claims are certainly expected to elicit some doubts and questions.

Ripped asked for the consensus of those of us that have been using the product, so, I provided my input. I am just as excited and interested in the potential of this product as is anyone else, otherwise, I would not have spent hard earned $$ to put it to the test. Also, as I said in my review, I have my wife trying it as well. I have never said anywhere that it does not work or does not do what is claimed. I did say that something is working, but I just am not sure what. I said that after over two months, I could see no evidence that it had reduced body fat or improved body composition, but that I would continue to use the product and see what develops. I think that this is all fair and relevant information for ripped or anyone else that asks for our experiences.

The bottom line for now I think is that one will just have to try the product and see how it works for them. That said, in time....months, years??....maybe additional scientific evidence as well as the experiences and observations of users (either could be considered as empirical evidence) will validate, or not, AP. Some are already singing its praises, but I think that it is too early yet, to get an overall definitive consensus. If it stands the test of time, like creatine, that would be great. I hope that it does.
 
The bottom line for now I think is that one will just have to try the product and see how it works for them. That said, in time....months, years??....maybe additional scientific evidence as well as the experiences and observations of users (either could be considered as empirical evidence) will validate, or not, AP. Some are already singing its praises, but I think that it is too early yet, to get an overall definitive consensus. If it stands the test of time, like creatine, that would be great. I hope that it does.

I agree.
 
The use of Proven and Anecdotally , in the same sentence, leads me to believe that this thread has devolved beyond my ability to contribute in a somewhat constructive manner.
To the original poster; if you want to buy multiple bottles of AP and use it for 2,3,4 months until you can decide if it was worth your hard earned money, that is between you and your wallet, I am merely saying Dont Believe the Hype, or the advertising in this case.
AP very well may elicit a slow, steady shift towards a sustained state of positive body comp changes, which over time would be better than having not used it, and if it was marketed as such, i would be far more apt to sink money into it, and would retain the high degree of respect for USP that they had EARNED from me.
USP needs to learn a valuable rule of marketing, which is that advertising only sells a product once, and customer satisfaction is behind every future purchase. Inflated expectations often lead to lowered satisfaction. EZ
 
The use of Proven and Anecdotally , in the same sentence, leads me to believe that this thread has devolved beyond my ability to contribute in a somewhat constructive manner.
To the original poster; if you want to buy multiple bottles of AP and use it for 2,3,4 months until you can decide if it was worth your hard earned money, that is between you and your wallet, I am merely saying Dont Believe the Hype, or the advertising in this case.
AP very well may elicit a slow, steady shift towards a sustained state of positive body comp changes, which over time would be better than having not used it, and if it was marketed as such, i would be far more apt to sink money into it, and would retain the high degree of respect for USP that they had EARNED from me.
USP needs to learn a valuable rule of marketing, which is that advertising only sells a product once, and customer satisfaction is behind every future purchase. Inflated expectations often lead to lowered satisfaction. EZ

All you are offering is Anecdotal Personal evidence which is the exact reason Anabolic Pump sales so well.

You have seemed to have forgotten that we beta tested AP (as we done with ALL our products) on over 20 participants before launching any type of advertising campaign.

Our print advertising is different than our forum advertising. We sold over 2000 units through nutraplanet just based of beta testing feedback.

Take care
 
OK i concede the pyhrric victory to you. I have read between the lines on the 2 statements you have made regarding your print media advertising, and respect the decision you have made on your business model, which i have no doubt will result in a wealth of profits for USP Labs.

Unfortunately for myself, I believe that this has effectively lessened by one, the supplement companies that i had come to believe were actually started by and ran by people with equal passion to myself, in regards to finding and producing legitimate and effective natural ergogenic substances and distributing them with integrity and customer satisfaction.

I feel the only recourse i have left is to start my own supplement company which has been a goal of mine for some time. When I return from this war, i will do just that. Wish me luck.
 
OK i concede the pyhrric victory to you. I have read between the lines on the 2 statements you have made regarding your print media advertising, and respect the decision you have made on your business model, which i have no doubt will result in a wealth of profits for USP Labs.

Unfortunately for myself, I believe that this has effectively lessened by one, the supplement companies that i had come to believe were actually started by and ran by people with equal passion to myself, in regards to finding and producing legitimate and effective natural ergogenic substances and distributing them with integrity and customer satisfaction.

I feel the only recourse i have left is to start my own supplement company which has been a goal of mine for some time. When I return from this war, i will do just that. Wish me luck.

Where will you be stationed?

Workin
 
OK i concede the pyhrric victory to you. I have read between the lines on the 2 statements you have made regarding your print media advertising, and respect the decision you have made on your business model, which i have no doubt will result in a wealth of profits for USP Labs.

Unfortunately for myself, I believe that this has effectively lessened by one, the supplement companies that i had come to believe were actually started by and ran by people with equal passion to myself, in regards to finding and producing legitimate and effective natural ergogenic substances and distributing them with integrity and customer satisfaction.

I feel the only recourse i have left is to start my own supplement company which has been a goal of mine for some time. When I return from this war, i will do just that. Wish me luck.


My integrity is in check and it's just the nature of the beast that disgruntled customers arise. What you fail to realize is that our marketing has lived up and PLEASED MANY Consumers with results but has failed your expectations. Failing your consensus does not correlate to faulty marketing or an ineffective product. This simply means you do not like the product and unfortunately you will not be the last.

I wish you the best!

Take care
 
working , as i am national guard, i will return to michigan, back to my job as a paramedic, with an eye on the future

I have been a customer of USP Labs for over a year now and can tell you they have always operated with integrity IMHO. I can also vouch for their past products...all have been top notch. I can't speak for AP, but will soon be able to provide feedback, as I'm starting to take it today. :head:

Thank you for your service to our country. You are much appreciated!

Workin
 
And yet, I too am on this bandwagon, because I wanted to find out for myself if this could do what is claimed. So far, I have no evidence that it does. In fact, after nearly two and a half months, lately, my love handles appear larger and more fatty...not a lot, but I had hoped and expected to see the opposite result. "

This was exactly my experience. Not only did I not get leaner, the extra carbs ended up as fat.

I was on AP for two months. One month of the original version and another month of the reformulated version.

I had gastrointestinal issues the entire time on the AP and this disappeared upon stopping AP.

I think some of those responding positively to AP are simply reporting the effects of carbo loading. The pumps, the muscle fullness, can all be associated with glycogen retention from the increased carbs. Considering many users were likely all ready restricting or watching their carb intake, the additional carbs could explain some of what users report.

Additionally, many of those reporting are also adding other supplements at the same time the start AP. As a result, it's hard to attribute the results to just AP.

Now, I guess you can argue that there needs to be a decrease in corresponding calories to make up for the increased calories in the extra carbs. But this really runs contrary to the advertisement of AP's effects.

I ran AP for two months, exactly according to the directions. I did not change my diet, other than adding the additional carbs, and did not change my training. I added no additional supplements. This is really the only true way to test the effectiveness of a supplement. My intent was to try to get an accurate opinion of AP and I was very optimistic.

The bottom line is it just didn't work. It did not live up to the hype or the marketing literature.

I'm not hating on USP. I love Cissus and recommend it's use to others regularly. I cannot, however, recommend AP.
 
I've been on the original YG on and off since it came out. Initially, I would get extremely hypo after taking and would have to up my carbs or feel very drained. This happened during the first 2 weeks of taking it and during that time I leaned out a little. Pumps were excellent, no real change in strength that I could discern.

These effects tapered off a little during the next 2-3 months and the fat loss aspect became less apparent..but that is likely due to imperfections in my diet.

Currently, I only use it pre and post workout to conserve product. This strategy seems to help with super saturating muscle with glycogen and YG/AP does this better than most any OTC product out there IMO.

Other benefits of AP include a pronounced anti-inflammatory effect.

All in all, I think this is a good product that can really benefit the hard core and natural BBer (ie, not someone like me who doesn't have their diet perfected). The price tag is the one true weakness on this product but for the serious competitor, the benefits will pay for themselves.

For the recreational lifter, there will be some decent health benefits but many will be disappointed if they are looking for PH-like gains. Since so much of the BB sup industry is aimed at appeasing this instant gratification attitude, few products will satisfy that mindset other than steroidals.
 
This was exactly my experience. Not only did I not get leaner, the extra carbs ended up as fat.

I was on AP for two months. One month of the original version and another month of the reformulated version.

I had gastrointestinal issues the entire time on the AP and this disappeared upon stopping AP.

I think some of those responding positively to AP are simply reporting the effects of carbo loading. The pumps, the muscle fullness, can all be associated with glycogen retention from the increased carbs. Considering many users were likely all ready restricting or watching their carb intake, the additional carbs could explain some of what users report.

Additionally, many of those reporting are also adding other supplements at the same time the start AP. As a result, it's hard to attribute the results to just AP.

Now, I guess you can argue that there needs to be a decrease in corresponding calories to make up for the increased calories in the extra carbs. But this really runs contrary to the advertisement of AP's effects.

I ran AP for two months, exactly according to the directions. I did not change my diet, other than adding the additional carbs, and did not change my training. I added no additional supplements. This is really the only true way to test the effectiveness of a supplement. My intent was to try to get an accurate opinion of AP and I was very optimistic.

The bottom line is it just didn't work. It did not live up to the hype or the marketing literature.

I'm not hating on USP. I love Cissus and recommend it's use to others regularly. I cannot, however, recommend AP.

What is your body fat percentage before starting AP?
 
This was exactly my experience. Not only did I not get leaner, the extra carbs ended up as fat.

I was on AP for two months. One month of the original version and another month of the reformulated version.

I had gastrointestinal issues the entire time on the AP and this disappeared upon stopping AP.

I think some of those responding positively to AP are simply reporting the effects of carbo loading. The pumps, the muscle fullness, can all be associated with glycogen retention from the increased carbs. Considering many users were likely all ready restricting or watching their carb intake, the additional carbs could explain some of what users report.

Additionally, many of those reporting are also adding other supplements at the same time the start AP. As a result, it's hard to attribute the results to just AP.

Now, I guess you can argue that there needs to be a decrease in corresponding calories to make up for the increased calories in the extra carbs. But this really runs contrary to the advertisement of AP's effects.

I ran AP for two months, exactly according to the directions. I did not change my diet, other than adding the additional carbs, and did not change my training. I added no additional supplements. This is really the only true way to test the effectiveness of a supplement. My intent was to try to get an accurate opinion of AP and I was very optimistic.

The bottom line is it just didn't work. It did not live up to the hype or the marketing literature.

I'm not hating on USP. I love Cissus and recommend it's use to others regularly. I cannot, however, recommend AP.

In my experience with AP my carb intake was no greater then my "off AP" times. I dont think carb loading promoted any benefits that I had seen prior. I also used AP as a stand alone supp (excluding protein, creatine, multi), so I feel I was able to take a fair review of the product. The only negative side was lethargy at times and I believe that was due to High GI carbs.

I am only one person so I maybe be a lucky one at that. I can honestly say though I found more benefit in AP then I ever have in a creatine supp. I know that sounds crazy but I am one person who considers themselves a "creatine non-responder" (although i still need to try a couple of top brands - man clout).

Either way I am starting my second bottle of AP shortly and I'll try to provide feedback. It will not be stand alone however as I am trying out the new powerfull for the first time as well.
 
In my experience with AP my carb intake was no greater then my "off AP" times. I dont think carb loading promoted any benefits that I had seen prior. I also used AP as a stand alone supp (excluding protein, creatine, multi), so I feel I was able to take a fair review of the product. The only negative side was lethargy at times and I believe that was due to High GI carbs.

I am only one person so I maybe be a lucky one at that. I can honestly say though I found more benefit in AP then I ever have in a creatine supp. I know that sounds crazy but I am one person who considers themselves a "creatine non-responder" (although i still need to try a couple of top brands - man clout).

Either way I am starting my second bottle of AP shortly and I'll try to provide feedback. It will not be stand alone however as I am trying out the new powerfull for the first time as well.

There will always be 3 sides to the story. Love it, hate it or okay. The ultimate variable in general is nutrition. AP is a supplement based around nutrition fundamentals.
 
There will always be 3 sides to the story. Love it, hate it or okay. The ultimate variable in general is nutrition. AP is a supplement based around nutrition fundamentals.

I think what you said is quite true. It sounds much like insulin with training wheels. Just like slin isnt for everyone, nor can this product be. I am pretty sure for the average user who is in check with their diet and training, this will be a helpful aid.

That being said, price is the inhibiting factor for me right now. If I was to use it, I would require at least two bottles... and I hope to be able to report on this soon. I have been dieting for 7 weeks and taken off about 20lbs. I need a new ride for the next 10-15lbs...
 
I think one of the things that is bothering me about some of the responses is the shift from subjective experience to objective science. Many have claimed it did not work for them, great I am sorry to hear that. When a product did not work for me, I usually try to conceal my critique to a personal basis--this is not happening here.

Stating it did not work for you, and then attempting to extrapolate your personal experience to why it may not work for others is ridiculous.
 
I think what you said is quite true. It sounds much like insulin with training wheels. Just like slin isnt for everyone, nor can this product be. I am pretty sure for the average user who is in check with their diet and training, this will be a helpful aid.

That being said, price is the inhibiting factor for me right now. If I was to use it, I would require at least two bottles... and I hope to be able to report on this soon. I have been dieting for 7 weeks and taken off about 20lbs. I need a new ride for the next 10-15lbs...

Send a Pm with complete address.
 
I think one of the things that is bothering me about some of the responses is the shift from subjective experience to objective science. Many have claimed it did not work for them, great I am sorry to hear that. When a product did not work for me, I usually try to conceal my critique to a personal basis--this is not happening here.

Stating it did not work for you, and then attempting to extrapolate your personal experience to why it may not work for others is ridiculous.

We can have all the science in the world. I mean the science can me set in stone, but if Joe, Jon, James, and juan do not feel it working...its not good my friend:think:

I communicated with you several times via pms, so I just figured I'd let ya know that my fiance's grandmother (86yearold lady with shoulder problems) is now using supercissus at 3 caps per day and I will post the full results when the bottle is almost done. My training partner(62 year old) used the regular cissus for a while and just recently ran out. His joints are now bothering him badly and he's practically begging me to get him some more, so Ill be grabbing some super cissus when the bank account allows it. I've have now been on AP since I beta-tested the YG and Im absoutely addicted. Its really hard for me to go low-carb now, because I really have no fear of gaining fat(of course with clean carbs). Im currently going around 250gs of carbs on workout days and less than 100 on nonworkout days to recomp and YG makes this a breeze. Also, I will be carbcycling for the 12 weeks preceding my beach trip(basically treating it like a contest prep) and AP will be stacked with Thyrotabs, Powerfull, MassFx, Xfactor and the new stimulantX for the last 6 weeks. Thats a very large # of supps, but I only do this type of cycle once or twice per year when Im really dropping my bf%. Im looking forward to trying out TNA if the budget allows as well. I never feel bad about buying from USPlabs, because you guys have never let me down before, so theres no fear of getting a bs product. Well, I just wanted to let you know the results from some of your products and to say thanks again for making some great supplements. Take Care
 
i bought 4 bottles of anabolic pump and ive been doin everything the right way.. im half way through my first bottle and i havent really notice any fat loss or muscle gain or pumps at all...:smite:
 
i bought 4 bottles of anabolic pump and ive been doin everything the right way.. im half way through my first bottle and i havent really notice any fat loss or muscle gain or pumps at all...:smite:

When you say hasnt been working, what do you mean? Thats a little vague. I have learned to be skeptical when some say the blanket statement of, "I have been doing everything the right way". I look back on every year and see how much gain I make, and how much I've learned. Knowing how to tinker with your insulin levels and system is an advanced project.

Could you please post a day of your diet and training listing foods eaten, calories in macro, and supplement dosage and timing?

Thanks dude, lets see what the dealio is.
 
When you say hasnt been working, what do you mean? Thats a little vague. I have learned to be skeptical when some say the blanket statement of, "I have been doing everything the right way". I look back on every year and see how much gain I make, and how much I've learned. Knowing how to tinker with your insulin levels and system is an advanced project.

Could you please post a day of your diet and training listing foods eaten, calories in macro, and supplement dosage and timing?

Thanks dude, lets see what the dealio is.

7:45 Take AP
8 Bowl of oatmeal 2 scoops whey protein
10 am peanut butter and jelly sandwich on wheat bread
10:45 banana
11:45 Take AP
12 turked and potatoes and green beans
2 can of tuna
3:30 30g protein bar
4:30 2 scoops whey pre workout
5pm workout for 1 hour
6pm take AP
6:15 2 scoop whey protein shake 2 Chicken breast, Rice
9pm bowl or rice
10:30 pm Ceasin protein shake
 
Good looking list... How big are you, height and weight with BF or estimate please. Is this a cutting or bulking diet? Roughly, what do your workouts look like? How much cardio at what level of intensity?

Thanks!
 
Looking back at your food log, you may be working out with too few carbs in your system. I have heard guys say AP can work like it sucks the carbs out of your system. Maybe toying around with some pretty simple carbs pre or post workout would be in your best interest.
 
I went through a bottle of the old formula and got mild results. I took each dose ~15 minutes before meal containing about 60g of low GI carbs and had some increase in vascularity and fullness, but nothing too drastic. I plan on running AP again with the new formula withing the next couple of weeks to give it another shot.
 
Looking back at your food log, you may be working out with too few carbs in your system. I have heard guys say AP can work like it sucks the carbs out of your system. Maybe toying around with some pretty simple carbs pre or post workout would be in your best interest.

what would u add to my list? im 6 feet tall 203 pounds currently bulking.. im also on the Evo stack. im already done the jungle warefare and bad ass mass and im currenlty on the restore..
 
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