Anyone try Bacchus by chaos and pain?
- Thread starter josh092
- Start date
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Legit kanna doesn’t have to be dosed very high. Zembrin is the “brand name,” and there is another extract that is very similar that you can get for a lot cheaper than Zembrin though. Kanna is a nice mood boosting ingredient, and I find it goes well with caffeine and stimulants. I’ve never used Bacchus or however you spell it though.
Ricky10
Well-known member
This certainly has the potential to have a notable impact on serotonin through the 5-HTP, Rhodiola, and generous dose of Kanna.
On one hand, I could picture taking this and getting a notable mood boost and reduction in anxiety. Alternatively, I could also picture this as being a little too relaxing/sedating...resulting in a spontaneous nap.
I think some Alpha GPC would have been a nice addition to the blend..
On one hand, I could picture taking this and getting a notable mood boost and reduction in anxiety. Alternatively, I could also picture this as being a little too relaxing/sedating...resulting in a spontaneous nap.
I think some Alpha GPC would have been a nice addition to the blend..
determination
Active member
I really enjoyed the bottle that I used. Good mood and smooth energy. It is something that I will buy again.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Nice! Sounds like a great add-on item to to take with a stim/fat burner, or PWO...
muscleupcrohn
Legend
It does seem to have a high safety threshold, with one study noting 14 and 90 day NOAELs (in rats) at 5000 and 600 mg/kg respectively, which is roughly equivalent to 56g and 6.72g for a 70kg human, which are both huge doses. These were the highest doses tested, so it's possible that the NOAEL was even higher than this. It's also worth noting that this was with the Zembrin extract, not the raw powder. I can see an argument being made that this would mean that you could use at least as much of the powder, as the extract is "stronger," but I can also see an argument being made that, as a standardized extract, you know that you're not getting an excessive dose of things you don't want from it. Either way, it seems like it's plenty safe at reasonable doses.
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That said, I don't think we can inherently just say that more is better here. We have human studies showing that 25mg of Zembrin is an effective dose,and some rodent studies showing that it's not exactly an inherently/infinitely linear dose-response curve in all aspects, with one study noting that a lower dose of an extract (5mg/kg in rats; roughly equivalent to 56mg for a 70kg person) was more effective than a higher dose (20mg/kg; roughly equivalent to 224mg for a 70kg person) in regards to its ability to "decrease restraint stress-induced self-soothing behavior, as well as to decrease stress-induced corticosterone levels."
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TL;DR: Higher doses are likely to be "safe," but not necessarily more effective than lower doses.
Maybe someone at C&P can explain why they believe the much higher dose is better, as I always enjoy some good discussion.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
More relevant reading:
"Excerpts from a translated interview with a local shepherd
in Namaqualand, Mr. Lodewyk Mories, recorded on audiotape in
Afrikaans in May, 1995 (Mories, pers. comm. 1995), part of which
had first been reported in Smith et al. (1996):"
"Excerpts from a translated interview with a local shepherd
in Namaqualand, Mr. Lodewyk Mories, recorded on audiotape in
Afrikaans in May, 1995 (Mories, pers. comm. 1995), part of which
had first been reported in Smith et al. (1996):"
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ELROCK
Well-known member
Keep us posted!
EMPIREMIND
Well-known member
pyrobatt
Well-known member
It does seem to have a high safety threshold, with one study noting 14 and 90 day NOAELs (in rats) at 5000 and 600 mg/kg respectively, which is roughly equivalent to 56g and 6.72g for a 70kg human, which are both huge doses. These were the highest doses tested, so it's possible that the NOAEL was even higher than this. It's also worth noting that this was with the Zembrin extract, not the raw powder. I can see an argument being made that this would mean that you could use at least as much of the powder, as the extract is "stronger," but I can also see an argument being made that, as a standardized extract, you know that you're not getting an excessive dose of things you don't want from it. Either way, it seems like it's plenty safe at reasonable doses.
Invalid Link Removed
That said, I don't think we can inherently just say that more is better here. We have human studies showing that 25mg of Zembrin is an effective dose,and some rodent studies showing that it's not exactly an inherently/infinitely linear dose-response curve in all aspects, with one study noting that a lower dose of an extract (5mg/kg in rats; roughly equivalent to 56mg for a 70kg person) was more effective than a higher dose (20mg/kg; roughly equivalent to 224mg for a 70kg person) in regards to its ability to "decrease restraint stress-induced self-soothing behavior, as well as to decrease stress-induced corticosterone levels."
Invalid Link Removed
TL;DR: Higher doses are likely to be "safe," but not necessarily more effective than lower doses.
Maybe someone at C&P can explain why they believe the much higher dose is better, as I always enjoy some good discussion.
Jamie was responsible for our kanna dosage, from what he said and I quote" It's what I like" so it comes down to what dosage of kanna he personally liked taking. He also wanted to make sure it was more than enough for those over 100kg like him at the time and myself( currently at 113kg). Every supplement company has a product close to their heart and for many owners they may have " different" dosages due to them having the intention to use the product for their own benefit. This is why we have the kanna on the higher end. Part of the fun of making supps. Similar to the new fatburner, permaswole and aggro formulations we have in the pipeline. Also, we are going to change the label at some point, our kanna is 2:1 which is what is studied. I'm going to have it changed on the website description for now to mirror that. I told CNPWayne this morning it's on our to do list. I had the same questions about the smaller dosages but jamie assured me this was the best route. I suggest trying it before buying it. We offer samples via email. Email me at [email protected] and we will send some over if you're down to try it.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
To each his own for sure. We all have our own preferences, and even different goals for why we use a given ingredient. As long as it’s a safe dose, which it does seem to be, people will all have their individual preferences, so having multiple options from different products with different doses is a good thing.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Along with Bacchus, I also got a nootropic product called Xact (Awaken Your Mind). I actually ended up taking both first thing in the morning, and throughout the day at work (along with Vicaine and some other stims). Obviously not a controlled experiment today by any means, but my first impression is that Bacchus did promote some nice relaxation and mood boosting effects. I didn’t seem to get much out of Xact when I took one pill of that in a more isolated manner late in my shift.
I will use Bacchus in a more controlled manner in the next few days. I’m a relentless stimaholic at work, so today just turned into a festival of pills. I felt pretty good though!
Ricky10
Well-known member
I took a more conservative approach with Bacchus today...
I woke this morning and had 1 scoop of Performax FitMax, and 1 capsule of HT Lipodrene Elite. This is a pretty standard starting point of the day for me to get some wakefulness and energy going. I typically end up consuming another single capsule of something like C&P Cannibal Inferno along with 1 capsule of Vicaine before I am actually satisfied though. Sometimes a bit more to be completely honest. (Bad...I know)
Anyway, this morning I consumed my FitMax and Lipodrene Elite and felt as I normally would...which was fairly decent. I then took two capsules of Bacchus and things kind of went downhill. There was a sedative-like calming effect and increase in brain fog....not quite the mood boost I thought I was enjoying yesterday. I think the doses of 5-HTP and Kanna might be too strong for me to dose 2-3 capsules at one sitting. I picture myself doing better and likely having a positive experience dosing this at 1 capsule a few times a day, which happened to be what I did yesterday.
I woke this morning and had 1 scoop of Performax FitMax, and 1 capsule of HT Lipodrene Elite. This is a pretty standard starting point of the day for me to get some wakefulness and energy going. I typically end up consuming another single capsule of something like C&P Cannibal Inferno along with 1 capsule of Vicaine before I am actually satisfied though. Sometimes a bit more to be completely honest. (Bad...I know)
Anyway, this morning I consumed my FitMax and Lipodrene Elite and felt as I normally would...which was fairly decent. I then took two capsules of Bacchus and things kind of went downhill. There was a sedative-like calming effect and increase in brain fog....not quite the mood boost I thought I was enjoying yesterday. I think the doses of 5-HTP and Kanna might be too strong for me to dose 2-3 capsules at one sitting. I picture myself doing better and likely having a positive experience dosing this at 1 capsule a few times a day, which happened to be what I did yesterday.
BloodManor
Well-known member
Everyone responds differently to ingredients and doses. Sometimes less is more and the bonus is the bottle lasts longer lol
Ricky10
Well-known member
Exactly! Ultimately, I think this may be more of an every now and then kind of supplement for me...or one cap per morning. Still too soon to really tell. I have a feeling I will be able to put it to good use in one way or another though..
muree
Member
hows your appetite with fitmax, inferno and lipodrene elite combined
Ricky10
Well-known member
Fairly good to be honest, but I am not a very good barometer for that. My body has been used to taking these kinds of things for many years. I have never been much of a morning eater anyway....even in my pre stim life. A protein shake along with a couple pieces of toast with peanut butter is about it for me on a good day. Early afternoon and evening has always been my natural eating window.
Even when I take stims late in the day (which occurs every day that I work), I have no problem eating lots of food in that window.
pyrobatt
Well-known member
Just to let everyone know, been sick for 3 days. Samples should be sent out today so be on the lookout.
I also should note that if you're interested in experimenting with the kanna dosage you can utilize 1 cap instead of the full dose. I've been experimenting with this and 1 cap feels different than 3. Not better exactly, just different.
I also should note that if you're interested in experimenting with the kanna dosage you can utilize 1 cap instead of the full dose. I've been experimenting with this and 1 cap feels different than 3. Not better exactly, just different.
DWeaver
Well-known member
What will be your Vicaine replacement when it’s gone?
ELROCK
Well-known member
Can you compare it to Vicaine?
ZachHXx
Member
Lmao.. funny you asked that. I actually had both bacchus and vicaine today together for the first time. It was very nice.
Comparing the two though, id say vicaine is much more euphoric, more mood enhancing, and more focused drive than bacchus. Bacchus has those characteristics as well but I mean knowing the ingredients in Vicaine its easy to understand why those effects are much stronger lol. Bacchus can be used 7 days a week and I dont use vicaine more than 2 to 3 days a week.
I love bacchus though for what I use it for... i have been using 1 to 2 caps added to my normal routines for light mood boosts and feel goods and it works well for that.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Oh, just saw this..
Still working on that one! I am starting to look into buying some bulk ingredients, and am considering making my own capsules that would be similar to Vicaine. In the meantime, I have some liquid Tianeptine Sulfate and Bromantane on the way that I am going to experiment with.
On another note, I have become a much greater fan of Bacchus recently. One pill at a time along with my stims is key for me to avoid feeling sedated. Otherwise, it’s a really nice addition and I will definitely be buying more.