Anyone not getting results from -epi? check in here.

Have you gotten results from your epi product?

  • yes

    Votes: 71 64.5%

  • no

    Votes: 39 35.5%
  • Total voters
    110
Jiigzz said:
But for one to argue so much against a compound must surely mean that there is evidence that leads to that conclusion? I for one feel that not enough evidence exists in either direction to say so with any kind of authority. Do I think that this ingredient has myostatin inhibiting properties, no, but that is just my opinion based on what I know of myostatin inhibition but I cannot yet state with any real authority that such benefits do not exist.
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it really is that simple, and totally agreed on all the above esp the boldened, fwiw
but these threads are always fun to watch


Jiigzz said:
Or is my argument too late to the conversation?
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way too late, and totally irrelevant
 
Jiigzz said:
I'm curious, but is there not a point in time when no research exists for a compound? If this time exists, do the benefits of said compound exist without such research? If they do, then perhaps epi is one of those ingredients where perhaps the MOA is not known yet and research will soon uncover this fact, or perhaps it will seek to disprove its efficacy.

But for one to argue so much against a compound must surely mean that there is evidence that leads to that conclusion? I for one feel that not enough evidence exists in either direction to say so with any kind of authority. Do I think that this ingredient has myostatin inhibiting properties, no, but that is just my opinion based on what I know of myostatin inhibition but I cannot yet state with any real authority that such benefits do not exist.

Or is my argument too late to the conversation?
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My assessment of the likeliness of myostatin inhibition being the foremost MOA behind effects of (-)-epi is based on comparison to studies on other compounds in the same context. In the study oft-cited so far, the changes in myostatin in the human group are not given but in the rat groups, the myostatin change was 15% (younger rats) and 18% (older rats).

By comparison, here's a couple other common things that can decrease myostatin;

Creatine - Reduces circulating myostatin by 17% - Invalid Link Removed

Vitamin D - Reduces myostatin by 70% - Invalid Link Removed

Should We market Creatine as a holy grail myostatin inhibitor? Do either of these compounds elicit the sorts of anecdotes being made about (-)-epicatechin?

Myostatin Inhibition seems to me to be a white elephant of the supplement industry.
 
De__eB said:
My assessment of the likeliness of myostatin inhibition being the foremost MOA behind effects of (-)-epi is based on comparison to studies on other compounds in the same context. In the study oft-cited so far, the changes in myostatin in the human group are not given but in the rat groups, the myostatin change was 15% (younger rats) and 18% (older rats).

By comparison, here's a couple other common things that can decrease myostatin;

Creatine - Reduces circulating myostatin by 17% - Invalid Link Removed

Vitamin D - Reduces myostatin by 70% - Invalid Link Removed

Should We market Creatine as a holy grail myostatin inhibitor? Do either of these compounds elicit the sorts of anecdotes being made about (-)-epicatechin?

Myostatin Inhibition seems to me to be a white elephant of the supplement industry.
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No, because there are those that do not respond to creatine.


mindblown.jpg
 
De__eB said:
There are those who don't respond to (-)-epicatechin as well

mindblown.jpgblown.jpg <- U C WOT I DID THERE?!?+
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But science says creatine works. Those who do not respond are plecebro'd.


Invalid Link Removed


C WHAT I DID THERE?
 
De__eB said:
Except, science accurately describes the presence of creatine responders and non-responders

Invalid Link Removed
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Lost it on this picture LOL
 
De__eB said:
Except, science accurately describes the presence of creatine responders and non-responders

Invalid Link Removed
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Because its actually been studied much more thoroughly in terms of human performance!

creatine-ster.jpg



what-if-the-word-research-was-invented-because-we-know-everything-but-have-to-search-again-to-re.jpg



"following the 5-day loading period." Broscience bro :lol:
 
If something has not been studied proper and no one hears of it from those in the know does it make a sound, investment for your goals that is
 
Only if its in the forest.
 
The 'loading period' has never really been debunked so to speak, especially for the purposes of the linked study, where they needed to reach the threshold of the creatine transporter to assess characteristics of response/non-response.
 
De__eB said:
The 'loading period' has never really been debunked so to speak, especially for the purposes of the linked study, where they needed to reach the threshold of the creatine transporter to assess characteristics of response/non-response.
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GO!
 
Touey said:
If something has not been studied proper and no one hears of it from those in the know does it make a sound, investment for your goals that is
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geez...now touey is quoting merrill lynch


i've gotta look into that rosetta stone!!!
 
I will say from -epi use probably dosing only on workout days will be the new rule, just from feel pre workout you feel it. Off days don't feel anything, not that you need to feel a supplement for it to work.
 
Admin said:
No, you haven't. You went from theorizing MOA to criticizing their marketing...calling people overlords and accusing them of using the terms because they sound more "impressive". In others words, bull****ting people.

We get it, you don't like OL. Get over it.

And you're right you havne't been stuck on that one way, you've been stuck on anything BUT that way. Sort of like your religious defensive of Muscletech and their 16lbs of muscle marketing with a new fancy HMB. Please.
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lol muscle tech, the joke that never gets old
 
De__eB said:
There are those who don't respond to (-)-epicatechin as well

mindblown.jpgblown.jpg <- U C WOT I DID THERE?!?+
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I tried it for 4 weeks as directed and I got some endurance boost, but any glorified caffeine pill would of did more for me. Oh well 50 bucks down the drain.
 
De__eB said:
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This just in!

EAAs are groundbreaking myostatin inhibitor!

Buy Amino IV and expect a 100 lb deadlift increase in a week!
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This just in! We stopped caring!

:lol:
 
De__eB said:
Invalid Link Removed

This just in!

EAAs are groundbreaking myostatin inhibitor!

Buy Amino IV and expect a 100 lb deadlift increase in a week!
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100 lbs deadlift increase in a week, sign me up! :P

To be fair, that anecdotal account was an anomaly as Brundel hinted at when originally bringing it up :P
 
kissdadookie said:
100 lbs deadlift increase in a week, sign me up! :P

To be fair, that anecdotal account was an anomaly as Brundel hinted at when originally bringing it up :P
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Yes but that was a long time ago and sounds better if we assume that was his full page spread ad in Flex and statement backed by a paid doctor group :D
 
Admin said:
Yes but that was a long time ago and sounds better if we assume that was his full page spread ad in Flex and statement backed by a paid doctor group :D
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all he needs now is a mention on the dr.oz show!!!
 
thebigt said:
all he needs now is a mention on the dr.oz show!!!
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Reminds me..before the raspberry ketone craze we had a post that ranked 3rd in Google for raspberry Ketones...

Dr. Oz did a show on it one day, had over 100k people visit the site and that thread in 24 hours.

After that, the spammers and big brands took over the results in Google....making $$$.


Invalid Link Removed
 
Admin said:
Reminds me..before the raspberry ketone craze we had a post that ranked 3rd in Google for raspberry Ketones...

Dr. Oz did a show on it one day, had over 100k people visit the site and that thread in 24 hours.

After that, the spammers and big brands took over the results in Google....making $$$.


Invalid Link Removed
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it's amazing the influence that guy has...if he mentions a fruit or veggie being good for you the next day the grocery store has it up front, at twice the price of the day before.
 
[video=youtube;GnSwz-9LLc4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnSwz-9LLc4[/video]
 
Admin said:
Reminds me..before the raspberry ketone craze we had a post that ranked 3rd in Google for raspberry Ketones...

Dr. Oz did a show on it one day, had over 100k people visit the site and that thread in 24 hours.

After that, the spammers and big brands took over the results in Google....making $$$.


Invalid Link Removed
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reminds me of when teddy bruski from the patriots had a stroke, the paper around here had an article about how 54 extra people had a stroke to just because he did, people are fuked.
 
thebigt said:
it's amazing the influence that guy has...if he mentions a fruit or veggie being good for you the next day the grocery store has it up front, at twice the price of the day before.
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Who is he?
 
All you have to do is go into any vitamin shop and see what shelf is bare and pretty much guaranteed there will be overweight women roaming around.
 
It has its place but some of its claims are purely obnoxious.
 
T-Bone said:
Really?. That's just silly. So things like creatine mono and fish oil have purely obnoxious claims?
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When creatine came out, yes...it did.
 
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