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Andromass Log: 8wk AM w/ SD kicker --> osta/s4

kc777 said:
I'm curious as well, why no stinging nettle in PCT? I though this was the best way to up Free Test due to nettles strong binding affinity to SHBG? Would it be because if you're HPTA is shut down then the nettle would just free up E2?
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I'm assuming freeing up the test from SHBG can send estrogen up if its doesn't convert the way you want it too.
 
kc777 said:
I'm curious as well, why no stinging nettle in PCT? I though this was the best way to up Free Test due to nettles strong binding affinity to SHBG? Would it be because if you're HPTA is shut down then the nettle would just free up E2?
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This is something I never quite grasped, as well. Some people say freeing up SHBG can raise Estrogen and lower total t (upping free T, I assume as well). Obviously upping estrogen is bad, but if it is balanced... eh.

I'll be running Athletix Division 1 very soon, so I'll see how it feels. I am VERY sensitive to E2 rise, even just 2 pumps of dermacrine can give me itchy nips.
 
kc777 said:
I'm curious as well, why no stinging nettle in PCT? I though this was the best way to up Free Test due to nettles strong binding affinity to SHBG? Would it be because if you're HPTA is shut down then the nettle would just free up E2?
Click to expand...

Part of a SERMs action is to raise SHBG. This seems like a bad thing, but it creates the negative feedback loop needed to return to homeostasis. Nettle has a two-pronged action: increasing total test, but lowering overall test. If your test levels are in the pits from cycling, then you will have very little test to spare and you run the risk of prolonging your recovery.
 
Interesting... I can already tell that my nipple feels better after day 2 dosage of torem... I am still so heavy too... I guess I will avoid the nettle for the time being... Thanks Rodja.
 
Sklander said:
Interesting... I can already tell that my nipple feels better after day 2 dosage of torem... I am still so heavy too... I guess I will avoid the nettle for the time being... Thanks Rodja.
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No problem. You can start it 3-4 weeks into PCT if you'd like.
 
Rodja said:
Part of a SERMs action is to raise SHBG. This seems like a bad thing, but it creates the negative feedback loop needed to return to homeostasis. Nettle has a two-pronged action: increasing total test, but lowering overall test. If your test levels are in the pits from cycling, then you will have very little test to spare and you run the risk of prolonging your recovery.
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So basically, nettle is slightly suppressive?
 
Rodja said:
No problem. You can start it 3-4 weeks into PCT if you'd like.
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And this is exactly what I'll do. Keeping osta at 12.5mg/day.

Torem at:

day 1 - 140mg
day 2 - 100mg
day 3 - 100mg
day 4-7 - 90mg
day 8-finish - 60mg

Torem always does me good. Thanks for the help guys.
 
HereToStudy said:
Why not DAA?
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I use DAA, just for PCT I like to know what else there is so my recovery starts up fast. I know there are many different channels/pathways and I just was interested in anyone's opinions about PCT and what/where stimulation is best in this case. :D

Thanks though, if my stomach can handle DAA I might consider using it as staple PCT... like before.. but currently I am not 100% sure im just not pissing/crapping it all out ....
 
mattrag said:
I use DAA, just for PCT I like to know what else there is so my recovery starts up fast. I know there are many different channels/pathways and I just was interested in anyone's opinions about PCT and what/where stimulation is best in this case. :D

Thanks though, if my stomach can handle DAA I might consider using it as staple PCT... like before.. but currently I am not 100% sure im just not pissing/crapping it all out ....
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DAA is one of the best things to come along in a long time for PCT. I'm currently in week 3 of PCT from a long injectable and oral cycle and between DAA, SA, and Clomid, I'm feeling great.
 
Rodja said:
DAA is one of the best things to come along in a long time for PCT. I'm currently in week 3 of PCT from a long injectable and oral cycle and between DAA, SA, and Clomid, I'm feeling great.
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So far how would you compare Clomid with Torem?
 
Sklander said:
Interesting... I can already tell that my nipple feels better after day 2 dosage of torem... I am still so heavy too... I guess I will avoid the nettle for the time being... Thanks Rodja.
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Good to know that torem has a good binding affinity for ER in breast tissue... I've been think about doing an Androhard+raloxifene+high dose sustain alpha to see if I can get rid of gyno I've had from puberty... if torem can help that fast I'm sure raloxifene will do wonders.
 
BigBlackGuy said:
Good to know that torem has a good binding affinity for ER in breast tissue... I've been think about doing an Androhard+raloxifene+high dose sustain alpha to see if I can get rid of gyno I've had from puberty... if torem can help that fast I'm sure raloxifene will do wonders.
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This is day 4 of PCT. Nipple sensitivity is something I've never experienced and can now relate with a female when they say their nipples hurt - it sucks. Anyway, Its 90% gone after 4 days of torem. Really happy that this worked itself out quite quickly as I was pretty concerned. Weight is holding around 190lbs. Still strong as an oxe... the sarms are kicking in and I am having another wave of extremely hard muscles and vascularity.

When should I get bloods?
 
BigBlackGuy said:
Good to know that torem has a good binding affinity for ER in breast tissue... I've been think about doing an Androhard+raloxifene+high dose sustain alpha to see if I can get rid of gyno I've had from puberty... if torem can help that fast I'm sure raloxifene will do wonders.
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Is raloxifene a good SERM for PCT?
 
If I were to get bloods on thurs. morning would it show if I had an estrogen rebound and what exactly caused the sensitivity in my nipple? I am extremely interested as I want to know how to combat this entirely in the future. I am getting some good lean loooking muscle going into PCT - sarms kicking in and I feel great.
 
The bloods at this point will mainly let you know what kind of damage was done and not a true hormonal picture since the SERM will throw off the reading.
 
Sklander said:
If I were to get bloods on thurs. morning would it show if I had an estrogen rebound and what exactly caused the sensitivity in my nipple? I am extremely interested as I want to know how to combat this entirely in the future. I am getting some good lean loooking muscle going into PCT - sarms kicking in and I feel great.
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Good to see the SARM is kicking in... also, haven't bloods with SARMs shown they can raise estrogen?
 
Only thing definitive I could find is this:
"Examples no longer being developed
Andarine ("S-4")-partial agonist, intended mainly for treatment of benign prostatic hypertrophy"
 
Only thing definitive I could find is this:
"Examples no longer being developed
Andarine ("S-4")-partial agonist, intended mainly for treatment of benign prostatic hypertrophy"
 
Day 11 of PCT. Don't know weight... probably around 185.

I did a TOREM PCT protocol:

day 1: 140mg,
day 2-14: 100mg,
day 15-28: 70mg

I am going to run HCGenerate starting in about ten days. Roughly 3 weeks in, as Rodja suggested. I got a spark reignited under my ass today - I have had 4 days of no lifting, just rest and work. CNS stress was HIGH. Feeling much better

Definitely still feeling strong - most likely due to sarms and good diet. I have a few progression pics... nothing spectacular, but I'm maintaining size and strength nicely. I'm feeling normal and its kinda blah, but I am gonna go for awhile with no nothing to get everything back to homeostasis.

I am working on building my upper chest area... Suggestions? I wanna eliminate the fat around that area of my body and it drives me crazy... pre pubescent puffy nips? wtf is going on here? i don't drink... definitely gonna get some more bloods done 4 weeks into PCT.

As always, all comments and suggestions are welcome. Love you guys and thanks again for a tremendous amount of knowledge - always learning. :D
 

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Diet is your best weapon to get rid of that stubborn fat, I would be interested to see your blood work
 
ryansm said:
Diet is your best weapon to get rid of that stubborn fat, I would be interested to see your blood work
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When do you think optimal time is to get the blood work done for PCT? I was thinking as soon as I end Torem at 28 days... right around then I'd get the bloods.
 
Sklander said:
When do you think optimal time is to get the blood work done for PCT? I was thinking as soon as I end Torem at 28 days... right around then I'd get the bloods.
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Wait a week or so for all of the hormones and SERMs to be metabolized to get a more accurate reading.
 
No worries. Glad to help this community.

So, my nip sensitivity is gone... I had been running a ladder dose of letro... got up to 2.5mg/day for 5 days... lump has decreased (along with my morning wood)... I am currently at the end of a tapper from letro... and am currently running it at 0.5mg/day. I want to stop it completely. I have a question:

If I have been tapering off of Letro, it has helped gyno A LOT (plus diet... had to realize i'm not ON anymore), and I am also taking TOREM at 90mg/day... today is day 14 of PCT. I am hardening up... the OSTA/S4 is unreal, gentleman. It honestly feels like epi the way it makes my muscles so hard. I don't have a mass for myself, I have been doing crossfit stuff with my staff at work (lol - they had no idea what level I was on) - no scale.

***IF YOU TL;DR - PLEASE READ BELOW***

Okay, got sidetracked, so, my question: tapering off letro... been tapering off for 10 days from 2.5mg/day. I want to know if I should keep TOREM high or keep the taper of TOREM going down and add in forma to combat the esto rebound from the letro? Thoughts? Do I have this all wrong? Also, this is day 14 of PCT.
 
Okay... I am have very little letro left, so I am gonna taper it to 0.25mg/day till its gone... Maybe just 10 more days total if it isn't out totally.

So, DO NOT add Forma... okay... care to explain? I'm very interested to know the biochem behind this.
 
Sklander said:
Okay... I am have very little letro left, so I am gonna taper it to 0.25mg/day till its gone... Maybe just 10 more days total if it isn't out totally.

So, DO NOT add Forma... okay... care to explain? I'm very interested to know the biochem behind this.
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Form metabolizes to an active steroid 4-OHT, albeit a mild one, and can be suppressive to the HPTA.
 
Nice. Okay, so Forma is out... I am two weeks in... gonna start HCGenerate in 6 days as per your instruction. Should forma be dropped completely from PCT?
 
how many cycles would you do before trying out SD? just curious, im about to do my first cycle of just epi and move my way up the ladder hopefully
 
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