Alwayssee333
New member
Earlier in this thread I saw androhard being compared to test e and test prop. How does andromass compare? Is it something around the same number 6 caps week = 550mg test a week, but with a better Anabolic Androgenic ratio?
Androhard
- Thread starter rulk22
- Start date
francesco
New member
I'm interested in power, and resistance for boxing. Do you think AH/AL stacked are sufficient, or I need more test. I know test is really the ONE for strength and RBC count, permanent changes..
my recent B/W:
17 Beta Estradiol 17.19 pg/ml (7.60-43.00))
progesterone 0.410 ng/ml (0.200-1.400)
Testosterone total 3.760 ng/ml (2.500-8.360)
dhea 7.30 ng/ml (1.80-12.50)
DHT 342 pg/ml (300-1200)
androstendione delta 4 *4.02 ng/ml (0.60-3.10)
thank you already
Alwayssee333
New member
Bump!
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
AndroHard is not compared to Test e or prop.
"AndroHard will be equivalent to the overall activity of 575mg/week masteron or 600mg/week primobolan -- but more androgenic and less anabolic.
We like to stick to the DHT comparison of 191mg/week because its more of a true 1:1 effect whereas the primo and masteron have different anabolic/androgenic ratios."
AndroMass:
428mg/week Testosterone Enanthate
How long are you running it for. I personally always use a SERM, but eric said a 4-6 week cycle will be ok with TRS+TCF-1.
Alwayssee333
New member
Thanks for summing that up.
Alwayssee333
New member
If fear of SERM > fear of Anabolic/Androgenic compounds = take neither.
thebigt
Legend
your doc prescribed primo?
ambulldog
Well-known member
i wish... the earlier reference to script meds would be proviron etc
Gym4Life
Active member
How long are you running it for. I personally always use a SERM, but eric said a 4-6 week cycle will be ok with TRS+TCF-1.[/QUOTE]
I dont know maybe four or six weeks I would run it for less if I didn't need a serm could you still add in androhard and still not need a serm?
I dont know maybe four or six weeks I would run it for less if I didn't need a serm could you still add in androhard and still not need a serm?
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
For this stack you could use the Testosterone Replacement Stack from PP. As for the other option, it really depends on what your goals are.
benjiman
Banned
if i was wanting to pre order some anderoseries stuff now when will they charge my credit card right away.half now the other half after it ships etc.and all so if you where going to spend like 4 or 5 hundred dollars do they have a way to pay like half now have later or any thing like that.the wifey would freak out less with 250 now and 250 next month kinda deal you know.
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
If you just bought the product, it would be charged now.
However, we do have a payment plan, where you can pay 1/3 now, 1/3 in 14 days, and the remaining 1/3 in 28 days.
benjiman
Banned
so with the payment plan when do you get the stuff when you are done paying kinda like layway.are do you get it right away and then make payments on it or what.i just want to make sure i get some just incase somthing happens later like banned, sold out etc.and would really like to try everything in the series but just have not decide what to stack with what just yet.
ryansm
Well-known member
Right away...well as soon as it ships as this is a presale
ryansm
Well-known member
rulk22
Well-known member
Yes you doresent:
We do too Ryan, (whatever one we choose ).:banana::banana:
mikeonopiates
New member
hey just wondering, how much lbs would one typically gain on a cycle of andromass?
rochabp
Well-known member
ryansm
Well-known member
...
rulk22
Well-known member
For a 6 week cycle it shold be possible to add 10 to 15lbs. Imo these gains are goin to be more permanent and not a lot of water being held.
rulk22
Well-known member
Lol. Im not laughing to make you feel bad bro(srs)
Eric is setting aside the stuff we want so that we dont miss out on being part of the 1st group to run the Androseries. The pre-sale slots are being filled out faster than anticipated, so I had to make sure we ( the reps ) get to have access too. One of the perks of being a rep for Primordial Performance.
rochabp
Well-known member
ryansm
Well-known member
lmao
yeah we will see who gets last laugh when ternavar and MENT come out
lol
It's not a competition, I will be stacking these new products from both companies<which I think will be more effective than any legal stack ever...
rochabp
Well-known member
you know i keed. PP and IBE are like brothers, i agree though i think stacking products from both companies will be awesome to any cycle.
rochabp
Well-known member
nice but me personally would like to try
AH 1-8
transdermal trenavar 1-8
epi 1-8
or for a massive bulk
bola 0/0/0/0/8/8/8/8
AM 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6
MENT 1-5 (at good dose, dont know what that would be as of current standings)
i feel like a fat kid at a buffet or like a guy who overdosed on viagra at a nudist beach.
thebigt
Legend
so many bankruptcies, lol. geezus, that would be my supp budget for the entire year.
well, almost, lol.
thebigt
Legend
rochabp
Well-known member
c'mon its PP, why is there even doubts that they "might" not work.
thebigt
Legend
because they will have to do more than merely work for that kind of price tag, lol. they will have to prove to be very 'special'.
thebigt
Legend
i understand that!!! unfortunately my raises haven't kept up with all these increases in prices...if results are really fantastic, i will take out a 2nd mortgage if need be, lol.
rulk22
Well-known member
Im not sure what ment is but im definatly interested in the Trenavar. You cold get a nice recomp stack goin with our Andromass, Androhard and Trenavar.
mikeonopiates
New member
cool, definitely looking forward to seeing people's logs, and will probably get andromass and androhard for summer.
rochabp
Well-known member
from what ive read
MENT is gonna be similar to Deca but with the androgenic properties of Tren.
plus no crazy liver toxicity
BigBlackGuy
Well-known member
Sounds ridiculous, can you post some links or info on that? I can't seem to find any/much.
rochabp
Well-known member
"Pharmaceutical Name: Trestolone, MENT, 7MENT (as acetate)
Chemical structure: 7-alpha-19Nor-androst-4-en-3-one,17b-ol
Molecular weight of base: 288.429
Molecular weight of ester: 60.0524 (acetic acid, 2 carbons)
Effective dose: 10-50 mg every day
Average Street-price: Only available through chemical wholesale.
Available Doses: None known. But Schering has been conducting extensive research into use for MENT both as a male contraceptive and as a means of hormonal replacement.
Characteristics:
I MENT has always been my favourite steroid, and that's just from reading the studies and looking at the structure of it. Thinking of what MENT can do should make every steroid user drool. This stuff is nearly as strong as its 17-alpha-alkylated counterpart mibolerone (cheque drops) but without the mad liver toxicity. It's a 19Nor substance, a nandrolone derivative. Its very much like nandrolone, except it has a 7-alpha-methyl attachment. This attachment stops it from being 5-alpha-reduced1. Now as you know, 5-alpha-reduction makes nandrolone, otherwise a very potent hormone, much weaker. A nandrolone derivative without 5-alpha-reduction for example is trenbolone (Parabolan/Finaplix), a very strong and potent androgen. But because of trenbolone's triple double bond structure, it also does not aromatize. But MENT on the other hand is still capable of aromatizing2 (which would not be the case with a 4 or 5 methylation), so you still have the benefits of estrogen : extra strength, better glycogen use, upgrading of androgen receptor, increased GH output and more IGF1. Its estrogenic potency may in fact be slightly larger because 7-alpha-methyl-estradiol (the product of MENT aromatization) may show less affinity to binding proteins as well. It is in fact suggested that part of MENT's actions may be the result of this potent estrogen1.
This stuff should literally and in all aspects be stronger than testosterone. Its androgenic character will be like trenbolone (same risk of hair loss, prostate hypertrophy, acne, deepening of voice) and its estrogenic character will be like that of nandrolone (same risk of gyno, bloating and fat gain). But its hypertrophic ability should be much higher than either of these, or even testosterone.
One question begs to be asked however: why on earth would they make it an acetate ester? In depot shots that means daily injections. This is after all the same company that is looking to market injectable testosterone undecanoate for shots once every 10 weeks. Well, so far two uses have been found for MENT in the medical community. Sundaram, who is probably the leading researcher where nandrolone and its derivatives are concerned, found it to be of perfect use for both replacment therapy for men, as well as for male contraception3 (Which would suggest it at least doesn't suffer from the libido suppressing drawback that nandrolone does). And from what the latest research in the matter seems to suggest, it looks like Schering is planning on making it in implant pellets4 that would release the drug over time, with 4 pellets delivering no more than 1.3 mg/day ! Assuming most of us do not want to use 40-50 pellets that could pose a problem for the use of MENT for enhancement purposes, lest there are some black market knock-offs. But take it from one who had looked, currently none of the wholesalers seem to have access to MENT. So the pending release of MENT may not be such joyful news after all (except for Schering who stands to profit nonetheless).
There is one study5 in particular that documented the exact effects of MENT very well, although it was carried out on castrated mice so these effects may not be transcribed to humans. MENT was capable of restoring sexual behaviour and seminal vesicle weights to intact levels as good as testosterone but at 1/3rd of the dose ! What was also interesting was that MENT did not seem to stimulate aggressive behaviour at all. Compared to a control group of castrated mice, there levels of aggression did not nominally increase at all. This could be positive news for all those roid ragers out there giving the steroid community a bad name.
Another interesting study6 more or less quantified the effects of MENT as compared to testosterone, and found that its androgenic character, based on the weights of ventral prostate and seminal vesicles, was 4 times greater than that of testosterone and that the hypertrophic nature was no less than 10 times greater, based on the weight increase in the levator ani muscle. More disturbing was the finding that the suppressive effect of MENT on HPTA was 12 times greater than that of testosterone, which is concerning at the least for a product with uses as a male contraceptive. The varying figures indicate that where a dose of testosterone that can maintain serum gonadotropin levels and muscle mass, can also maintain the prostate and seminal vesicles, where MENT cannot. This can easily be explained because the larger part of testosterones androgenic action stems from target specific conversion to a more androgenic form in the prostate and other androgen sensitive tissues, because these have a high concentration of 5-alpha-reductase. But MENT is not affected by 5-alpha-reductase.
Because of its 7-alpha-methyl group, MENT also shows no significant binding to SHBG7 (sex hormone binding globuline). On the one hand that is why it is such a strong hormone compared to testosterone (estimated 3 times stronger), but also why its half-life is shorter (begging daily injections still with the acetate ester). So in conclusion we can state that this hormone is extremely powerful at what it does and could find more uses, both in the medical community (to treat wasting diseases and burns) and in the sports enhancement field. While its production is imminent and its safety record proven in both studies with humans and animals, it remains to be seen for what purpose and in what form it will be marketed by Schering. As things are now, it looks like it will be produced in a form that will only be useful in hormonal replacement therapy, and not in short term treatment of burns or wasting diseases, or for sports enhancement.
Stacking and Use:
This information is of course purely hypothetical and based on an injectable version of the aforementioned acetate ester of MENT. Given the short half life and the short ester, daily injections would be required. In most cycles we would inject around 75 mg per day of test (give or take, based on 500 mg/week). Similar results could be obtained with 25-50 mg per day of MENT. The drug does aromatize like nandrolone, and it aromatizes to 7-alpha-methyl-estradiol. In light of the low affinity of MENT for binding proteins, the same could be assumed of 7-alpha-methyl-estradiol, so this may be a quite potent estrogen. Combined with the progestagenic action of 19Nor steroids that could lead to a reasonable risk for gynocomastia. Especially those prone to estrogen should probably supplement with 1 mg per day of arimidex or 2.5 mg per day of letrozole to keep these effects at bay. If stacked with additional aromatizing or otherwise estrogenic hormones its best to keep Nolvadex on hand as well, and to remind yourself of the progestagenic action. RU486, the abortion drug, is the only known truly effective progestin blocker, but is hard to find and terribly expensive. Combining with Winstrol may help, as it does have some competitive progestagenic blocking abilities, but their extent is not quantified in any study. The androgenic effects may be quite strong, so acne probably will occur, and men prone to problems with male pattern hair loss or prostate problems should be cautious. Due to the 7-alpha-methyl group, MENT is not affected by 5-alpha-reductase, so treatments like Proscar will have no effect.
When stacking this product, one will probably be looking to add mass to the frame. To that extent it could be stacked with testosterone (particularly powerful combo), Methandrostenolone (40 mg/day), Oxymetholone (100-150 mg/day) or Boldenone -(200-800 mg/week) (the latter would be my preference). It would not make a very good match for nandrolone, as nandrolone can be considered the weaker relative of MENT, with similar action but much less androgenic possibilities. Given the progestagenic nature, Stanazolol (50 mg/day) may be a good match for MENT as well.
Keep in mind that there are very few real world results with MENT on humans, and there is no literal data on its hypertrophic ability, so a lot of this is hypothetical, based on the available studies and evidence.
References
1 Sundaram K, Kumar N, Monder C, Bardin CW. Different patterns of metabolism determine the relative anabolic activity of 19-norandrogens. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 1995 Jun;53(1-6):253-7
2 LaMorte A, Kumar N, Bardin CW, Sundaram K. Aromatization of 7 alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone by human placental microsomes in vitro. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 1994 Feb;48(2-3):297-304
3 Sundaram K, Numar K. 7alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone (MENT): the optimal androgen for male contraception and replacement therapy. Int J Androl. 2000;23 Suppl 2:13-5.
4 Suvisaari J, Moo-Young A, Juhakoski A, Elomaa K, Saleh SI, Lahteenmaki P. Pharmacokinetics of 7 alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone (MENT) delivery using subdermal implants in healthy men.Contraception. 1999 Nov;60(5):299-303
5 Ogawa S, Robbins A, Kumar N, Pfaff DW, Sundaram K, Bardin CW. Effects of testosterone and 7 alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone (MENT) on sexual and aggressive behaviors in two inbred strains of male mice.Horm Behav. 1996 Mar;30(1):74-84.
6 Kumar N, Didolkar AK, Monder C, Bardin CW, Sundaram K. The biological activity of 7 alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone is not amplified in male reproductive tract as is that of testosterone. Endocrinology 1992 Jun;130(6):3677-83
7 Kumar N, Suvisaari J, Tsong YY, Aguillaume C, Bardin CW, Lahteenmaki P, Sundaram K. Pharmacokinetics of 7 alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone in men and cynomolgus monkeys .J Androl. 1997 Jul-Aug;18(4):352-8.
Read more from the MESO-Rx Steroid Forum at: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-forum/the-perfect-steroid-134239282.html#ixzz1EYxvkioD"
rochabp
Well-known member
rulk22
Well-known member
Interesting...Thanks for the share rochabp. This just adds to the infinant stacking possibilties with Andromass.