Anavar/low dose Test- Ai needed?

[BigGGG]

Hello,
I ditched the idea of an Test/Deca cycle, too many things to be carefull with (was thinking mostly about improving my joints) and after seeing some studies regarding Var and collagen synthesis, decided to:


Week 1-8
Anavar- 50-80mg/day
Test Cyp 200-250/week
Liver support
Week 8-12
PCT

The reason I go that low with test is that I don't want the bulk, bloat and acne (just to maintain somewhat my T levels close to natural), I will surely do a PCT as I know VAR IS supressive.
Question:

Do I need an AI? And if how much Adex would be needed?
Anything else needed?

Thank you guys!

 

[MarkoK87]

Only 8 weeks on test cyp is not good, if you want to run 8 weeks cycle on your place I will go with test prop, cyp will peak in 6th week. I would run anavar last 6 weeks at 80 mg ED with prop 100mg eod (350mg per week). Diet will be the most important thing to look if you concern about bloat, and for estrogen its really depends, I see guys who run 1gr of test per week without AI and they does not have estro sides, on the other side some guys get gyno on 250 mg of test, its really depends on body and also on diet, we are all different If you don t want to pin eod maybe go like this:
1-10 test cyp 250mg
5-12 anavar 80mg ED

 

[BigGGG]

I want the test only to stay at natural levels and not feel the suppression and loss of libido. So if test peaks in weak 6 it should be perfect as by then I am supressed by Var and no longer produce my own test, right?

 

[MarkoK87]

Natural levels are far away from 250mg per week, natural levels are around 40-70mg per week, depending on age. You will be supressed if you use only var, that s why test must be base of every cycle, cause all steroids will suppress your testosterone and without test on cycle you will be really low on test. What I meant by peak is that on week 6th you will start to "feeling" effects of test c, so its really pointless to run it only 8 weeks. Test P will kick in much faster and if you don t mind pinning EOD it will be perfect choice. You will shutdown your test production with 70mg of test or 250 or 500mg, so why to do that ? Go 100mg test prop EOD with anavar from start and have AI on hand. What is your stats, what you want to achieve from this cycle ??

 

[Renew1]

Hello,
I ditched the idea of an Test/Deca cycle, too many things to be carefull with (was thinking mostly about improving my joints) and after seeing some studies regarding Var and collagen synthesis, decided to:


Week 1-8
Anavar- 50-80mg/day
Test Cyp 200-250/week
Liver support
Week 8-12
PCT

The reason I go that low with test is that I don't want the bulk, bloat and acne (just to maintain somewhat my T levels close to natural), I will surely do a PCT as I know VAR IS supressive.
Question:

Do I need an AI? And if how much Adex would be needed?
Anything else needed?

Thank you guys!

Your setup looks ok.
You will be suppressed by the Var and by the Test. Make sure you get a SERM for PCT, and get an AI. You aren't guaranteed to need an AI on this cycle, but you may, and either way, you should have one.
With this cycle, you wont get Var only effects. You will get Var and low dose Test effects.
You could go lower on the Test, stay with your plan, or go higher.
The choice is yours.

 

[BigGGG]

How much lower? 150? I am not looking for the effects of test ( only to maintain close to natural levels and not loose libido, etc).
Also , as I am afraid I got Winny instead of Var, how could I tell (backpumps??)
I will keep an AI at hand and only use if it needed (or should I go really low dose A-dex EOD?)

 

[RickyBlobby]

I think the suppression would be less and your PCT would be smoother if you used a SERM instead of test. I know BBiceps did a SERM/ anavar cycle recently, maybe he can give some insight.

 

[Renew1]

How much lower? 150? I am not looking for the effects of test ( only to maintain close to natural levels and not loose libido, etc).
Also , as I am afraid I got Winny instead of Var, how could I tell (backpumps??)
I will keep an AI at hand and only use if it needed (or should I go really low dose A-dex EOD?)

If you aren't looking for Test effects, yeah, you could do 150.
Winny will dry out your joints.
If you are going that low on Test, I would just keep the AI on standby.

 

[RickyBlobby]

How much lower? 150? I am not looking for the effects of test ( only to maintain close to natural levels and not loose libido, etc).
Also , as I am afraid I got Winny instead of Var, how could I tell (backpumps??)
I will keep an AI at hand and only use if it needed (or should I go really low dose A-dex EOD?)

If you got winny instead of var it might be hard to tell. On winny your lipids and liver values would likely be worse, and you might notice dry joints. But some people don't get dry joints so unless you are getting your var from a reputable vendor you really don't know.

 

[IGF]

Do 100-150 test if you are looking for trt test levels. Probably won't need an AI at that dose but everyone is different. If you go with 200-250 test you'll prob need a small dose of adex a couple times a week

 

[BigGGG]

I think the suppression would be less and your PCT would be smoother if you used a SERM instead of test. I know BBiceps did a SERM/ anavar cycle recently, maybe he can give some insight.

I get to bitchy on SERMS, almost crying

 

[Old Witch]

Anavar is not nearly as suppressive as test itself. If you just want to run anavar, do it, clinically up to 40mg you can run as long as 90days before suppression sets in, especially if you're under 40.

I have a friend or two who have been taking it for years (swearing by it and no other drug) and still haven the gotten suppressed to any degree notable in blood work (your levels can go up or down a couple hundred just from Monday to Tuesday) and their livers are still fine.

Just saying.

 

[BBiceps]

I would ditch the test (the dose is too low anyway) and use Clomid on cycle and continue 4 weeks after the Var. That’s what I did and although my blood work showed very low test levels I got no signs of low test during or after, it’s to the point I think they must of done something wrong with my blood work..? Anyhow, I planning on another Var&Clomid cycle in the next few months.

 

[RickyBlobby]

I would ditch the test (the dose is too low anyway) and use Clomid on cycle and continue 4 weeks after the Var. That’s what I did and although my blood work showed very low test levels I got no signs of low test during or after, it’s to the point I think they must of done something wrong with my blood work..? Anyhow, I planning on another Var&Clomid cycle in the next few months.

How did pct go? Any crash after you discontinued the var?

 

[BigGGG]

I can't use clomid during the cycle. I get depressed and feel like a girl.Even PCT is hard with it. I want the Test only to keep my natural levels ( and how could 150mg Test hurt?).
About Anavar being supressive I read different opinions. I think it is. And I want to run it at higher doses like 50-80 (I am not cutting but looking for strength)

 

[Transhuman]

I can't use clomid during the cycle. I get depressed and feel like a girl.Even PCT is hard with it.

Use Torem instead.

 

[Rostam]

Use Torem instead.

For on cycle use Raloxifene seems to be the best.

 

[RickyBlobby]

For on cycle use Raloxifene seems to be the best.

FOr gyno, yes. For stimulating testosterone production, no, it is the weakest SERM

 

[BigGGG]

Use Torem instead.

Dont think I can get a hold on that

 

[BBiceps]

How did pct go? Any crash after you discontinued the var?

No, no drop in weight or strength, not even after I stopped the Clomid. I “feel” the same as I did before. Libido is strong as always.

 

[BBiceps]

I can't use clomid during the cycle. I get depressed and feel like a girl.Even PCT is hard with it. I want the Test only to keep my natural levels ( and how could 150mg Test hurt?).
About Anavar being supressive I read different opinions. I think it is. And I want to run it at higher doses like 50-80 (I am not cutting but looking for strength)

Even a low dose test will shut you down, if you planning on getting shut down anyway why not use more and get some serious strength gains? 150mg is pointless, it’s like drinking decaf coffee just to say you drank coffee

 

[BigGGG]

Even a low dose test will shut you down, if you planning on getting shut down anyway why not use more and get some serious strength gains? 150mg is pointless, it’s like drinking decaf coffee just to say you drank coffee

Because I dont want bloat, acne from higher doses of test. 80 mg of Var will shut me down anyways and I would need an PCT. Low test just to not loose libido, apetite. I would dearly go Clomid but I cant, it makes me a little girl...

 

[Old Witch]

Because I dont want bloat, acne from higher doses of test. 80 mg of Var will shut me down anyways and I would need an PCT. Low test just to not loose libido, apetite. I would dearly go Clomid but I cant, it makes me a little girl...

80mg var yes you will be shut down. If it was 40mg and no test, it wouldn't shut you down for a much longer time, and if you took short breaks, even longer.

At this rate why not just up the dose of test? You don't want the sides you say... so take the ancillaries. That's what they're for, we don't just take them for peace of mind.

 

[BBiceps]

Because I dont want bloat, acne from higher doses of test. 80 mg of Var will shut me down anyways and I would need an PCT. Low test just to not loose libido, apetite. I would dearly go Clomid but I cant, it makes me a little girl...

You don’t have to go that high, I doubt 250-300mg would get you acne and that would be much better than 150mg. I’m not a fan of high dose test either and think that’s pointless as well (unless you’re a bb competitor).

 

[Antlion]

Running 500 test 50 var morning and 50 win afternoon. On week 3 and it's definitely worth the trip to the dark side Haha I tried 600 test initially but got really sensitive nipples and some shoulder acne so I dropped it back to 500 and I'm happy with that. I used torem and armidex when I got sensitive nipples and everything's good to go now.

My advice: up the test to 500 and order an AI armidex and a serm torem. It's pointless to halfway do this as your only going to want the results from fully doing it so just be prepared and itll be smooth.

 

[BigGGG]

Running 500 test 50 var morning and 50 win afternoon. On week 3 and it's definitely worth the trip to the dark side Haha I tried 600 test initially but got really sensitive nipples and some shoulder acne so I dropped it back to 500 and I'm happy with that. I used torem and armidex when I got sensitive nipples and everything's good to go now.

My advice: up the test to 500 and order an AI armidex and a serm torem. It's pointless to halfway do this as your only going to want the results from fully doing it so just be prepared and itll be smooth.

I get sides (moon face, acne, etc ) even with lower then 500 Test AND A-dex. Also I am competing in strength competitions and DONT want any weight gain ( or as low as possible).
So, I intend to do as low Test as possible (even if it makes no sense shutdown wise, as it will shutdown me even at 150mg (but so will high doses of VAR-so no issue here). I want the Test only to combat the libido sides ( and other sides from missing estrogen) beginning after week 5 of VAR.
Also, as most VAR might not really be VAR but Winny , low dose Test would help a bit with the joints. Think now I explained it better.

 

[MarkoK87]

500mg of test is not low dose at all, so no wonder if you get e2 sides on that dose before, especially if you have too much sodium and simple carbs in your diet. With proper diet I think you wont need AI on 250mg of test, but you should have it on hand just in case. Good luck

 

[Renew1]

LOL. Poor guy just wants to run some Var with a Test BASE. He's not receiving much support.

 

[MarkoK87]

LOL. Poor guy just wants to run some Var with a Test BASE. He's not receiving much support.

I wrote him perfect cycle on the beginning but he don t want to see For his purpose best to go something like this

1-10 test c 200mg per week
6-12 anavar 70mg per day

Perfect for little gains with low sides

 

[Renew1]

I wrote him perfect cycle on the beginning but he don t want to see For his purpose best to go something like this

1-10 test c 200mg per week
6-12 anavar 70mg per day

Perfect for little gains with low sides

That's a good looking suggestion (IMO) for what he says hes trying to do.
Although (IMO), he could drop the Test another 50mg, since he is truly looking for a Test BASE only.

But he wants to keep it to 8 weeks only.

 

[Sheriff Morri]

Just run anavar on its own.

I’m running tbol 80mg and apart from a wee spat of migraines ( may just be a coincidence) my gains have been well past my expectations.

As a precaution to the migraines I started 20mg of Nolva for the last week of my cycle. Not sure if it’s needed but thought I may as well try.

 

[RickyBlobby]

I’m not too familiar with andros, but would something like 4 andro be better than test since the cycle is only 8 weeks and the rest will take a few weeks just to kick in?

Nothing wrong with wanting a test base, but as said earlier, for only 8 weeks it doesn’t sound like test e or c is the best option. Maybe test P or andros of some sort.

Just a thought

 

[MarkoK87]

I’m not too familiar with andros, but would something like 4 andro be better than test since the cycle is only 8 weeks and the rest will take a few weeks just to kick in?

Nothing wrong with wanting a test base, but as said earlier, for only 8 weeks it doesn’t sound like test e or c is the best option. Maybe test P or andros of some sort.

Just a thought

If he want 8 weeks cycle test p would be perfect, if he really want low dose he can inject 0.5ml on M/W/F and that would be 150mg of test p per week and he can run anavar whole length of cycle.

 

[Rostam]

FOr gyno, yes. For stimulating testosterone production, no, it is the weakest SERM

I’m not really in favor of on cycle use of SARMs for this purpose until I see some on cycle blood test which I haven’t seen so far.

There is a thread o this board where this topic was discussed.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/290487-run-serm-throughout.html

 

[BigGGG]

LOL. Poor guy just wants to run some Var with a Test BASE. He's not receiving much support.

Nailed it Thank you!Everyone wants to pump me with a good dose of test and I want as little mass gained as possible (maximum 4 pounds would be brilliant)

 

[RickyBlobby]

I’m not really in favor of on cycle use of SARMs for this purpose until I see some on cycle blood test which I haven’t seen so far.

There is a thread o this board where this topic was discussed.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/290487-run-serm-throughout.html

Plenty of bloodwork and testimonials in this thread. The vast majority positive experiences.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/301579-clomid-during-cycle-2.html

 

[RickyBlobby]

Nailed it Thank you!Everyone wants to pump me with a good dose of test and I want as little mass gained as possible (maximum 4 pounds would be brilliant)

Why set the bar so low? Seems like you could put on 4 lbs natty in fairly short order.

 

[MarkoK87]

Nailed it Thank you!Everyone wants to pump me with a good dose of test and I want as little mass gained as possible (maximum 4 pounds would be brilliant)

With all respect for 4 pounds to go on cycle is insane, just track your calories and be in surplus + add some supplementation and you will gain that 4 pounds in few weeks

 

[BigGGG]

With all respect for 4 pounds to go on cycle is insane, just track your calories and be in surplus + add some supplementation and you will gain that 4 pounds in few weeks

Please listen to what I say. I am looking only for STRENGTH, as little mass as possible. Maximum 4 pounds , the less, the better. I am training for 21 years now and the strenght gains just don't come anymore with diet and things. Also, I read some studies about Anavar promoting collagen synthesis in a similar manner to Deca. So thats what I am after, strength and a bit of joint health. You know, all that strength training is hard on the joints....
BTW, what's your oppinion on any other goodies for joints (maybe Cissus, Ostarine??)
Thank you again!

 

[MarkoK87]

Please listen to what I say. I am looking only for STRENGTH, as little mass as possible. Maximum 4 pounds , the less, the better. I am training for 21 years now and the strenght gains just don't come anymore with diet and things. Also, I read some studies about Anavar promoting collagen synthesis in a similar manner to Deca. So thats what I am after, strength and a bit of joint health. You know, all that strength training is hard on the joints....
BTW, what's your oppinion on any other goodies for joints (maybe Cissus, Ostarine??)
Thank you again!

You will be disappointed with Var for strength you want, as far I know (and I know a lot) all “dry” compounds ,aka compounds that does not raise your e2 levels, are nearly not good for strength gains as “wet” compounds. Basically you want to be strong as hell but not to gain any water, that is impossible friend. If you want good form, dry grainy look, you need to run compounds like var,winstrol,masteron, don t get me wrong, you will got some strength from these compounds but nothing crazy.Maybe to look at tbol, strength gains are very good from legit tbol and you would not have problem with aromatization. What you think about this :
1-10 test c 200mg
1-5 tbol 60mg
9-12 winstrol 50mg a day

This would be nice dry cycle with solid strength gains, just keep your diet in check.

 

[BigGGG]

You will be disappointed with Var for strength you want, as far I know (and I know a lot) all “dry” compounds ,aka compounds that does not raise your e2 levels, are nearly not good for strength gains as “wet” compounds. Basically you want to be strong as hell but not to gain any water, that is impossible friend. If you want good form, dry grainy look, you need to run compounds like var,winstrol,masteron, don t get me wrong, you will got some strength from these compounds but nothing crazy.Maybe to look at tbol, strength gains are very good from legit tbol and you would not have problem with aromatization. What you think about this :
1-10 test c 200mg
1-5 tbol 60mg
9-12 winstrol 50mg a day

This would be nice dry cycle with solid strength gains, just keep your diet in check.

from what I 've heard strenght from VAR (high dosed and REALLY VAR) is comparable to T-BOL. I am aiming at nothing crazy. If I am able to just get a a bit of weight and some decent strength, I'm happy.
I did my study before going this way:
TREN, DECA- to many sides, ancilliaries, to hard a recovery( biggest drawback)
Halo, MTren - by joints and tendons are not brand new anymore and I am offseason, and to toxic for me, I am aiming at no champ title right now
I just wanted a bit of quality gains, a bit of decent strength (of which i can keep a good part - opposed to D-Bol, (don't know how much of T-bol strenght gains are keepable), AND , most important, the improvements to the joints ( which only Deca, Eqi or VAR could bring). Also, the missing Androgenic sides is a big plus
Also, I am not competing in the next time so no need to go full hulk with a missing liver right now. Worth to mention that I have been training natty most of my life ( only one Test and one S-drol cycle under my belt).
Does it make better sense now?

 

[MarkoK87]

Strength gains on tbol are good, and reason why I suggest it over anavar is fact that is really hard to find good anavar , tbol is much less faked. Real anavar, I mean pharma grade anavar is crazy good staff and crazy expensive, if you buy anavar from some UGL lab you will mostly get some mix of dbol and winstrol there. I get what you want, but I don t know is it worth it to shutdown yourself for such small aim.

 

[BigGGG]

Strength gains on tbol are good, and reason why I suggest it over anavar is fact that is really hard to find good anavar , tbol is much less faked. Real anavar, I mean pharma grade anavar is crazy good staff and crazy expensive, if you buy anavar from some UGL lab you will mostly get some mix of dbol and winstrol there. I get what you want, but I don t know is it worth it to shutdown yourself for such small aim.

Can you also keep some of the strength gains of T-bol?And how much bloating? That's also something I look for in Var, to keep most of the (even if not spectacular) strength gains.
I hope I don't have bunk. will see if I bulk to quickly and get achy joint's than i'm another one with fake VAR. ( I keep an AI at hand anyways)
Really informative thread, btw

 

[RickyBlobby]

Var gives me crazy strength gains at 50mg/ day. Like 30-50% more reps for a given weight.

 

[MarkoK87]

I always run tbol at 60-70mg per day first 6 weeks of cycle and no bloat at all, if someone got bloat from tbol that is more likely dbol xD Pharma grade var will give you also nice pump and good strength, but as I already mention its very hard to find legit var these days Last time I found bayer oxandrolone and run it only 40mg per day and got really nice results.

 

[BigGGG]

I know of 2 companies (Europe) that would not play with their name and sell something else as Var to get busted with something like this (25 bucks):
https://www.amazon.com/Oxandrolone-Test-Refill-by-ROIDTEST/dp/B01BKKHI4O
(hope I am allowed to post this).
True, it would cost somehting like 200-250$ / month.

 

[MarkoK87]

Friend that is not anavar, that is test for anavar, basically you need to put your anavar tablets there and liquid should change slightly on some color. Also even with this test you still can t be sure, there can be some trace of anavar in your tablets for example in 10mg of oxandrolone you may have 2mg and liquid will change and it will tell you that you got real anavar, but you don t know is there really 10mg per tablet.

 

[Renew1]

Friend that is not anavar, that is test for anavar, basically you need to put your anavar tablets there and liquid should change slightly on some color. Also even with this test you still can t be sure, there can be some trace of anavar in your tablets for example in 10mg of oxandrolone you may have 2mg and liquid will change and it will tell you that you got real anavar, but you don t know is there really 10mg per tablet.

Bro, you are pushing against him at every turn. Leave the man alone. No offense, but he knows better than you, in this case.

As RickyBlobby said....Anavar gives CRAZY strength. It does exactly the same for me.
Maybe when he's done with this cycle, he can give you some advice on how to run your next cycle.

 

[MarkoK87]

Did you check link at all lol, this is test for oxandrolone. Anavar gives solid strength, nothing crazy, you can expect crazy strength on A bomb, every other oral is not closely to drol when it comes to strength .Dor experience user anavar is last choice for strength gains. I m on gear last 15 years and I try almost every compound out there, so I really thing there is few guys who can give me some advice. Stay strong man

 

[Renew1]

Bullcrap. RickyBlobby has been on gear longer than you, and Ive been on/off cycling for decades. So when we say it gives us CRAZY strength....THATS A FACT.

Like I said, he's getting good info here. Don't taint it.