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Anabeta+ArA is best natty stack?

just ordered factor and anabeta elite from eBay.. 110$ includono shipping to italy. Wasn't cheap but hope they will worth the money
 
Qonix said:
Is it?
I'm looking to start a long bulking phase, trying to stay ad lean ad possibile from september to april (maybe throwing in a month just to clean a bit). When would be the best moment to use this stack?
Third year of training for me.

Is anabeta and ara the best natty stack (minimizing fat gains and bloaing effect)?
Is there a big difference between anabeta and elite version?
Would you suggest anything else?
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For a natural I would advise against an anti estrogen and a pro inflammation fat which I'm sure everyone gets enough of. Nothing against the companies (look at my Alphamine review) but....

Ara has been shown to promote strength gains in a supplemental dose but I would only be comfortable promoting it to a non powerlifter injury free lifter just due to my personal worries. Pro inflammation effects are not hypertrophy specific.


Anti e's lower igf1 for the healthy individuals. To what degree? I have no idea. However...igf1 is a primary pathway for growth.

I would however suggest Tonka ali, aswaga , d3, and betaine.

Of course with the addition of a calorie surplus and a good preworkout.

9 times out of 10 if you're experiencing bloat issues for a natural it's a diet issue or marketing to make you think your lower bodyfat than you actually are.
 
pyrobatt said:
For a natural I would advise against an anti estrogen and a pro inflammation fat which I'm sure everyone gets enough of. Nothing against the companies (look at my Alphamine review) but.... Ara has been shown to promote strength gains in a supplemental dose but I would only be comfortable promoting it to a non powerlifter injury free lifter just due to my personal worries. Pro inflammation effects are not hypertrophy specific. Anti e's lower igf1 for the healthy individuals. To what degree? I have no idea. However...igf1 is a primary pathway for growth. I would however suggest Tonka ali, aswaga , d3, and betaine. Of course with the addition of a calorie surplus and a good preworkout. 9 times out of 10 if you're experiencing bloat issues for a natural it's a diet issue or marketing to make you think your lower bodyfat than you actually are.
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ArA has been shown to be a key factor in the specific inflammatory process involved in hypertrophy multiple times. Also, there's not an AI in this stack and saying AIs lower IGF-1 is not accurate (e.g. exemestane increases it).
 
Rodja said:
ArA has been shown to be a key factor in the specific inflammatory process involved in hypertrophy multiple times. Also, there's not an AI in this stack and saying AIs lower IGF-1 is not accurate (e.g. exemestane increases it).
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Decreasing estrogen lowers igf1 in healthy range males. Although some like extremestane raise it from that specific ingredient.

Ara is also a key factor in the aggravation of chronic injuries such as osteoarthritis induced by heavy ass weight.

Also...my bad. Anabeta doesn't have an ai. That's anabeta elite.
 
pyrobatt said:
Decreasing estrogen lowers igf1 in healthy range males. Although some like extremestane raise it from that specific ingredient. Ara is also a key factor in the aggravation of chronic injuries such as osteoarthritis induced by heavy ass weight.
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I guess you passed over the point that there's no AI in stack and to blame ArA for that condition is absurd as there's a myriad of factors that go into injury aggravation from decades on training.
 
Rodja said:
I guess you passed over the point that there's no AI in stack and to blame ArA for that condition is absurd as there's a myriad of factors that go into injury aggravation from decades on training.
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Just edited to correct myself.

Would you take ara if you had osteoarthritis? I'm not blaming ara FOR that condition. I'm just saying that if you have previous injuries I would recommend staying away from ara or if you're a powerlifter which...If you're a competitor you have a high risk as it is for injury.

Also note I've used OG anabeta with great succes.
 
pyrobatt said:
Just edited to correct myself. Would you take ara if you had osteoarthritis? I'm not blaming ara FOR that condition. I'm just saying that if you have previous injuries I would recommend staying away from ara or if you're a powerlifter which...If you're a competitor you have a high risk as it is for injury. Also note I've used OG anabeta with great succes.
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I personally would as you can control the situation that you're in while training. The only group of people that I recommend to not take ArA are those in high contact sports. I took it during a fight camp and it was awful, but that's apples and oranges compared to lifting.
 
reps4jesus... interesting take on not rewarding innovation.

But even you couldnt refute supporting brands who use the profits to fund clinical studies and bring out other first to market ingredients, and support their growing patent portfolio.

Also, and this will be my last post in any sort of bickering arguemnt... this was not simply doing research on a fatty acid... NOBODY in the world believed fatty acids to be this important for muscle growth or that ArA was as vital to protein synthesis and growth as it is. William Llewellyn fought critics for a full decade as nobody believed him since his research was vastly different than what more mainstream research scientists were reporting. Him understanding that the liberation of ArA from skeletal muscle is the root cause for muscle plateau, and that supplementation would break you out of it was and is a revolutionary idea.

As you alluded to, ArA is the biggest breakthrough in our industry since creatine.
 
SwolenONE said:
reps4jesus... interesting take on not rewarding innovation.

But even you couldnt refute supporting brands who use the profits to fund clinical studies and bring out other first to market ingredients, and support their growing patent portfolio.

Also, and this will be my last post in any sort of bickering arguemnt... this was not simply doing research on a fatty acid... NOBODY in the world believed fatty acids to be this important for muscle growth or that ArA was as vital to protein synthesis and growth as it is. William Llewellyn fought critics for a full decade as nobody believed him since his research was vastly different than what more mainstream research scientists were reporting. Him understanding that the liberation of ArA from skeletal muscle is the root cause for muscle plateau, and that supplementation would break you out of it was and is a revolutionary idea.

As you alluded to, ArA is the biggest breakthrough in our industry since creatine.
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Not arguing at all, just stating consumers do not reward companies, they look for the company that will serve them best with quality products, and low prices.
I support your brand and have nothing against a company that flat out makes legit products in the same way sns and many other companies do, I'm simply saying regardless of what people say on a forum to come across as supporters of innovation, they are going to buy the product that is of best value.
And if they don't, then great I hope they're rich. Because I can't afford (or justify) throwing an extra $10 bucks on a product when there is a better option right next to it. That's what makes the competition between xgels and xfactor awesome. They are both priced competitively, and they are both great options.
That's it.
 
reps4jesus said:
Not arguing at all, just stating consumers do not reward companies, they look for the company that will serve them best with quality products, and low prices.
I support your brand and have nothing against a company that flat out makes legit products in the same way sns and many other companies do, I'm simply saying regardless of what people say on a forum to come across as supporters of innovation, they are going to buy the product that is of best value.
And if they don't, then great I hope they're rich. Because I can't afford (or justify) throwing an extra $10 bucks on a product when there is a better option right next to it. That's what makes the competition between xgels and xfactor awesome. They are both priced competitively, and they are both great options.
That's it.
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Exactly
 
reps4jesus said:
Not arguing at all, just stating consumers do not reward companies, they look for the company that will serve them best with quality products, and low prices.
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Uh, yes they do. I may be in the minority but I'm sure I'm not the only one. I've only purchased two runs of ArA so far, but both of have been X-Factor precisely because of MN's role in bringing it to market and funding subsequent research. It's not terribly inconvenient for me to wait for X-Factor to go on sale at which point the price differential is negligible.
 
tony soprano said:
Uh, yes they do. I may be in the minority but I'm sure I'm not the only one. I've only purchased two runs of ArA so far, but both of have been X-Factor precisely because of MN's role in bringing it to market and funding subsequent research. It's not terribly inconvenient for me to wait for X-Factor to go on sale at which point the price differential is negligible.
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Who do you buy your creatine from?
 
tony soprano said:
This question is about as relevant as my asking you what clinical studies has SNS funded?
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Im just curious. If innovation is what you support,do you buy from the company that first bought creatine to the market?
 
oh, an xfactor/xgel debate.....havent seen this before
:think:
 
hvactech said:
oh, an xfactor/xgel debate.....havent seen this before
:think:
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Im glad MN conducted the studies on Ara. It is a remarkable ingredient; this isnt xgels vs x factor or SNS vs. MN, i was juat curious as to how far someone extends their loyalty to innovation
 
Jiigzz said:
Im glad MN conducted the studies on Ara. It is a remarkable ingredient; this isnt xgels vs x factor or SNS vs. MN, i was juat curious as to how far someone extends their loyalty to innovation
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i know....:thumbsup:
 
Jiigzz said:
Im just curious. If innovation is what you support,do you buy from the company that first bought creatine to the market?
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Yes, I do support innovation when I can and in fact did buy my creatine from EAS for quite some time. Are you implying the notion of customer loyalty is misplaced?

Having said that, as I look on NP's website, SNS's 100 ct. X-Gels are more expensive than MN's 100 ct. X-Factor. So a consumer can buy ArA from the company that brought it to market, funded a clinical study on the product, and still pay less money. That's about as no-brainer as a buying decision gets, IMO.
 
tony soprano said:
Yes, I do support innovation when I can and in fact did buy my creatine from EAS for quite some time. Are you implying the notion of customer loyalty is misplaced?

Having said that, as I look on NP's website, SNS's 100 ct. X-Gels are more expensive than MN's 100 ct. X-Factor. So a consumer can buy ArA from the company that brought it to market, funded a clinical study on the product, and still pay less money. That's about as no-brainer as a buying decision gets, IMO.
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Not at all. Was just wondering if said loyalty applied to every ingredient or just a select few.

And other e tailers have xgels for just over 30 ;)

Its cool that you support innovation, but remember that without xgels in the market, youd be paying twice as much. Ahh the benefits of competition
 
Jiigzz said:
Not at all. Was just wondering if said loyalty applied to every ingredient or just a select few.
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No, the the extent that I can, I'd extend the same support to every "new" ingredient.
And other e tailers have xgels for just over 30 ;)
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Well, to be fair, other etailers probably have X-Factor priced lower than NP as well. I didn't bother to look.
Its cool that you support innovation, but remember that without xgels in the market, youd be paying twice as much. Ahh the benefits of competition
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Absolutely, that's how free markets work. I'm a big fan of competition as it tends to drive, you guessed it, more innovation.
 
tony soprano said:
No, the the extent that I can, I'd extend the same support to every "new" ingredient.
Well, to be fair, other etailers probably have X-Factor priced lower than NP as well. I didn't bother to look.
Absolutely, that's how free markets work. I'm a big fan of competition as it tends to drive, you guessed it, more innovation.
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man, that's not "to be fair". That's you haven't even looked or educated yourself and your talking out your ass. :)
 
Jiigzz said:
Im just curious. If innovation is what you support,do you buy from the company that first bought creatine to the market?
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In sure he does lmao
Only the best for sir tony. Well, not the best, just the kind that was bottled first ;) regardless of price. Because he speaks for all consumers when he says no one cares about price. All they want to do is reward companies.
Ya know.,,I actually don't think this is the way average consumers plan to spend their hard earned cash, considering they are adults with an adequate level of maturity and life experience.
I have never gotten a PM from a ARA user asking about was xgels first on the market ect, they do tell me quite often that the INGREDIENT worked very well for them and they plan to buy more. So you know what these educated adults do! They look at multiple retailers to find the best price on the ingredient they wish to buy from a reputable company, and whether it be sns or MS they buy what will give them the best bang for their buck. just tellin you how it is tony.
 
reps4jesus said:
man, that's not "to be fair". That's you haven't even looked or educated yourself and your talking out your ass. :)
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Bingo, I haven't even looked for an etailer that sells X-Gels for less than NP, nor will I, because it's very unlikely that I'd ever buy X-Gels. MN brought the product to market and has funded a clinical trial on the product. I'm willing to pay a reasonable premium for their ArA because of it. All that said, the fact remains that X-Gels is more expensive than X-Factor at NP.
 
reps4jesus said:
In sure he does lmao
Only the best for sir tony. Well, not the best, just the kind that was bottled first ;) regardless of price. Because he speaks for all consumers when he says no one cares about price. All they want to do is reward companies.
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Apparently reading comprehension isn't something that SNS requires of their reps. I specifically said in my first post that I was probably "in the minority". Do you understand what "minority" means? How exactly does that suggest that I speak for all consumers?

Let's compare that to your statement and determine who exactly is presuming to speak for all consumers -
reps4jesus said:
Not arguing at all, just stating consumers do not reward companies,
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BTW, skippy, although I may be in the previously referenced minority, there ARE others. Here's a quote from BB.com. I don't know if we're supposed to link to that board so I'll just include the quote. If you want to read the original post feel free to PM me for the link.
Recently I bought a couple bottles of X-Factor during the big sale most sites have. I know it can be had cheaper, but I wouldn't feel right especially since MN really put their neck out there defending their product for YEARS and I prefer to reward companies for bringing innovation to the market and to me, the bottom line is a few bucks isn't enough to make a big difference to me.
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But, but, consumers don't reward companies.
 
I've started the stack today.. Even if it's been less than 12hours from first assumption, I feel hunger and thirstier.
I'm splitting the 4 caps of factor and anabeta between lunch and dinner. Is the right protocol?
 
Qonix said:
I've started the stack today.. Even if it's been less than 12hours from first assumption, I feel hunger and thirstier. I'm splitting the 4 caps of factor and anabeta between lunch and dinner. Is the right protocol?
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Dose the x-factor pre-workout.

Dose AnaBeta Elite prior to your two largest meals.
 
Qonix said:
usually I workout between lunch and dinner.. would 2 anabeta+4 xfactor at lunch and 2 anabeta at dinner be the way to go?
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The Anabeta would be good with lunch/dinner

The X-gels should be taken away from food so 15 mins preworkout may be best, depending on how long after lunch you work out
 
Qonix said:
usually I workout between lunch and dinner.. would 2 anabeta+4 xfactor at lunch and 2 anabeta at dinner be the way to go?
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Yeah you want ArA in the pre-workout setting (no food).

AnaBeta Elite dosing looks good.
 
chedapalooza said:
Did 4 weeks of just ara... Adding in ABE today for 4-6 more weeks. Winning
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Nice, the second half of an ArA cycle is always the best... plus adding ABE in will take everything up a notch.
 
chedapalooza said:
Yep! For once I followed directions and didnt just start the kitchen sink all at once lol
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Good self discipline right there... when I get a new shipment of supps I open everything up and start polling pills haha.
 
Is it normal to feel more soreness in the muscles?
I never feel my abs sore.. I did just 3 sets on Monday and they still hurt like hell!
 
Qonix said:
Is it normal to feel more soreness in the muscles? I never feel my abs sore.. I did just 3 sets on Monday and they still hurt like hell!
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In certain individuals yes.
 
Those two stacked with some sns agmatine would be a great stack, as it agmatine would help with GDA, pumps, recovery, etccc
 
Qonix said:
Is it normal to feel more soreness in the muscles?
I never feel my abs sore.. I did just 3 sets on Monday and they still hurt like hell!
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Yes sir, DOMS on X-Factor (ArA) can be quite intense!
 
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The DOMS can get quite painful in certain individuals.

I've got some in my traps/upper shoulders. It's getting difficult to dry off after a shower lol. I usually don't get bad DOMS from ArA. And I'm not sayin they are horrible but definitely noticeable right now.
 
The entire time I was taking ArA, the pain from DOMS was insane. It was like I was working out again for the first time after a long lay off, every workout. No doubt this is probably the extreme end of the scale, not everyone experiences this level of pain. I spent about 12 weeks on ArA, and strength/lean mass gains were very apparent.
 
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