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All You need to Know about PCT!!!!

DRSTRISMADAST said:
For real, sounded like too much estrogen floating around, i almost cryed 2 hours ago... jk...
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Well I did cry, in a corner.
I consumed cake for hours while sobbing.
It was glorious.
 
DRSTRISMADAST said:
Did you not read... What im in school for making me closer than you... Who are you bro??? The guy with no stats? Prolly one of the people advising members to run nolvadex while using deca.... You wanna learn something kid, read!!! You posted and i guarentee you didnt even read the thread... if I could bet my next next years salary i would on that.... So your gonna tell me that nolvadex is the best serm out there? Clomid is a much better option For one..
.
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I'm not sure why you would PM me being mr nice guy then talk sh!t in the thread.

I read through a lot of the thread. It was mainly a regurgitation of info scattered around the boards mixed with whoring of mr supps/n2buildmuscle products.

I didn't have to read past the first paragraph of your thread to know that you probably didn't graduate highschool, much less have an undergraduate degree at a reputable university.

So, basically, you're 'some guy' that is going to school, claiming to be a molecular biologist. Just so you know, studying fungi,algae, and bacteria is slightly different than anabolic steroids.
 
uniifirex said:
Every thread i see you come in and post turns into a party :o
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It's because I am a sex robot from the future. :D
Starting parties one thread at a time. :D
 
Good read fellas. Got a lot of good input on you and manbeast argument. Pretty helpful. Not trying to be rude but "I don't like change"
 
soontobbeast said:
I'm not sure why you would PM me being mr nice guy then talk sh!t in the thread.

I read through a lot of the thread. It was mainly a regurgitation of info scattered around the boards mixed with whoring of mr supps/n2buildmuscle products.

I didn't have to read past the first paragraph of your thread to know that you probably didn't graduate highschool, much less have an undergraduate degree at a reputable university.

So, basically, you're 'some guy' that is going to school, claiming to be a molecular biologist. Just so you know, studying fungi,algae, and bacteria is slightly different than anabolic steroids.
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And your janitor job is more reputible? U didn't read past the first paragraph because your illiterate n cant dont understand how someone new to this site is more knowledgable than u...U can keep downing me and my school and I'll keep answering all the pm s ive been recieving about proper pct... U keep using ur nolva... Ill see u for gyno surgery soon, uneducated prick... Do janitors get benefits?
 
thyrod said:
Good read fellas. Got a lot of good input on you and manbeast argument. Pretty helpful. Not trying to be rude but "I don't like change"
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Glad we could help Bro. Lmk if you have any questions...
 
DRSTRISMADAST said:
And your janitor job is more reputible? U didn't read past the first paragraph because your illiterate n cant dont understand how someone new to this site is more knowledgable than u...U can keep downing me and my school and I'll keep answering all the pm s ive been recieving about proper pct... U keep using ur nolva... Ill see u for gyno surgery soon, uneducated prick... Do janitors get benefits?
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lol @ running out of arguements, and using insults.
building yourself a bad rep here.
 
soontobbeast said:
I'm not sure why you would PM me being mr nice guy then talk sh!t in the thread.

I read through a lot of the thread. It was mainly a regurgitation of info scattered around the boards mixed with whoring of mr supps/n2buildmuscle products.

I didn't have to read past the first paragraph of your thread to know that you probably didn't graduate highschool, much less have an undergraduate degree at a reputable university.

So, basically, you're 'some guy' that is going to school, claiming to be a molecular biologist. Just so you know, studying fungi,algae, and bacteria is slightly different than anabolic steroids.
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Why dont u quit insulting n find me a study showing tamoxifen For modern pct, n where n how it starts ur naty hpta n test... sources.please, not sure why u keep avoiding this.... until then go whack it kid....
 
Haven't seen either side of this argument post studies but I'd be interested in reading both. OP, can you post a link that talks about why you can't use nolva with deca? Don't wanna hear your personal opinion (no offense) just wanna see facts. I've done my research and haven't found a legitimate medical study stating such, just a lot of broscience.
 
uniifirex said:
lol @ running out of arguements, and using insults.
building yourself a bad rep here.
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From who, u n soonto... I.dont care what you guys say... I posted reputible info with sources.. U dont know modern medicine so both of u insult my intelligence... Lol, why would I wanna be part of an online community where u insult members base ur opinions of how many post someone has.... U know what, dont worry about it. Im done with u hating, and giving opinions from jow blow gym rat... But ur smarter than me... Ur the kids we make fun of Who post how ur 6 Weeks into cycle with no libido.. im done arguing with the uneducated..
 
I'm bored...

Study AGAINST tamox + 19-nor:
Invalid Link Removed

Study saying it is ok (note, does not say you should, just that it isn't the end of the world):
Invalid Link Removed
 
I'll gladly read more, those were just the two I had in another thread about the basics of why PCT is needed in the first place after I spent a few weeks seeing "I'm going to do this cycle with <insert OTC test-booster> as PCT" threads...

ManBeast
 
Read those already. The former is about cancerous tissue. From my understanding, nolva only upregulates the progesterone receptor in cancerous and uterine tissue.
 
Yes, that is what I've come to think as well, the *only* thing that I can think of is that since cancerous cells themselves are higly anabolic (reproduce fast) is that when we've had our body in an incredibly anabolic state, the non-cancerous cells respond in a similar fashion to cancerous ones with regards to receptor upregulation.

ManBeast
 
Oh, that's a given, starting a cycle without a pct in hand ready to go is pure unadulterated stupidity.
 
ManBeast said:
Yes, that is what I've come to think as well, the *only* thing that I can think of is that since cancerous cells themselves are higly anabolic (reproduce fast) is that when we've had our body in an incredibly anabolic state, the non-cancerous cells respond in a similar fashion to cancerous ones with regards to receptor upregulation.

ManBeast
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Haven't thought about it that way, any supporting research or just speculation?
 
complete speculation, i think it will be hard to find legitimate research done on people "recreationally" using steroids :D
 
DRSTRISMADAST said:
And your janitor job is more reputible? U didn't read past the first paragraph because your illiterate n cant dont understand how someone new to this site is more knowledgable than u...U can keep downing me and my school and I'll keep answering all the pm s ive been recieving about proper pct... U keep using ur nolva... Ill see u for gyno surgery soon, uneducated prick... Do janitors get benefits?
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:lmao:

FYI, On my lunch break at Janitor City, I read that microbiologists don't actually deal with gyno surgery.
 
Im a certified surgical technologist, first assist, and Registered nurse working on a micro degree. TS-C, TS-CFA, n licensed RN... I don't need to explain my self to you.. Plenty of other people are interested in the information and my help
 
DRSTRISMADAST said:
Im a certified surgical technologist, first assist, and Registered nurse working on a micro degree. TS-C, TS-CFA, n licensed RN... I don't need to explain my self to you.. Plenty of other people are interested in the information and my help
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I call bullsh*t. You're right you don't have to explain anything. Why would anyone believe you, though? You spell like a 2nd grader,and you flat out lied about being molecular biologist.

None of what you say adds up .

I'm done.
 
Trenbolones active metabolite (17beta-trenbolone) has a binding affinity to the progesterone receptor that is actually greater than progesterone itself.
+

Nolavadex makes potentiates/ makes the progesterone receptors sensitive

= no 19nors (trenbolone/Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - /etc) w/nolavadex


J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 May;95(1-5):83-9.

Aromatase inhibitors: cellular and molecular effects.

Miller WR, Anderson TJ, White S, Larionov A, Murray J, Evans D, Krause A, Dixon JM.

Breast Unit, Western General Hospital, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.

Marked cellular and molecular changes may occur in breast cancers following treatment of postmenopausal breast cancer patients with aromatase inhibitors. Neoadjuvant protocols, in which treatment is given with the primary tumour still within the breast, are particularly illuminating. In Edinburgh, we have shown that 3 months treatment with either anastrozole, exemestane or letrozole produces pathological responses in the majority of oestrogen receptor (ER)-rich tumours (39/59) as manifested by reduced cellularity/increased fibrosis. Changes in histological grading may also take place, most notably a reduction in mitotic figures. This probably reflects an influence on proliferation as most tumours (82%) show a marked decrease in the proliferation marker, Ki67. These effects are generally more dramatic than seen with tamoxifen given in the same setting. Differences between aromatase inhibitors and tamoxifen are also apparent in changes in steroid hormone expression. Thus, immuno-staining for progesterone receptor (PgR) is reduced in almost all cases by aromatase inhibitors, becoming undetectable in many. This contrasts with effects of tamoxifen in which the most common change on PgR is to increase expression. Changes in proliferation occur rapidly following the onset of exposure to aromatase inhibitors. Thus, neoadjuvant studies with letrozole in which tumour was sampled before and after 14 days and 3 months treatment show that decreased expression of Ki67 occur at 14 days and, in many cases, the effect is greater at 14 days than 3 months. These early changes precede evidence of clinical response but do not predict for it. However, this study design has allowed RNA analysis of sequential biopsies taken during the neoadjuvant therapy. Based on clustering techniques, it has been possible to subdivide tumours into groups showing distinct patterns of molecular changes. These changes in tumour gene expression may allow definition of tumour cohorts with differing sensitivity to aromatase inhibitors and permit early recognition of response and resistance....

when you are on PCT the 19 nors are still active in your body as remember that half lives mean half, then half, then half, so you will still have some receptor upregulation long after PCT is over







"there's 2 phases, on cycle vs PCT.

when on a cycle which includes nandrolones, use of nolva is contraindicated for gyno symtoms because nolva (also clomid) upregulate progesterone receptors. iow, you increase the liklihood of progesterone sides and sequalae (gyno and hyperprolactinemia)

when in PCT, as long as most of the active nandrolones have cleared your system (2-3 weeks), use of SERMs nolva/clomid is fine. the p-receptor upregulation is transient and wont affect a subsequent cycle. "

Dorland's Medical Dictionary for Health Consumers. © 2007 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved
outta one of my books....

I think that what it comes down to is what works for your body... One study says one thing and one says another.... I have searched for the ast 2 days and when i try to find more info, the next thread says use it...

Good luck... Tamoxifen and prolactin dont mix at all....
 
soontobbeast said:
I call bullsh*t. You're right you don't have to explain anything. Why would anyone believe you, though? You spell like a 2nd grader,and you flat out lied about being molecular biologist.

None of what you say adds up .

I'm done.
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This
 
soontobbeast said:
I call bullsh*t. You're right you don't have to explain anything. Why would anyone believe you, though? You spell like a 2nd grader,and you flat out lied about being molecular biologist.

None of what you say adds up .

I'm done.
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He really is what he says, I know him personally and we train together. I don't see why so many ppl r hating on him, its totally uncalled for.
 
so should i return my nolva and get something else? hahah:afro:
 
I love when I get to see internet arguments, it is like all the drama from high school without me being in the middle.

:popcorn:
 
JoeySon said:
so should i return my nolva and get something else? hahah:afro:
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Make sure it's all **** products bro.

Im sure he's a good enough dude but I know English must've been part of the gen ed requirements of any college degree.

Lot of info that doesn't match up. He posts a pct article that takes a translator to read basically just trying to get people to buy **** products and then boasts about his pct that he used after his last cycle for quick recovery which did indeed have a serm.

And then he's a molecular biologist...then an RN...and probably an underwater basket weaver next.

To many inconsistencies. From what I could understand. Which wasn't much.

Lots of unwarranted hostility too when people just point out flaws in his arguments. And like a two year old he makes up fictional BS about someones character to try to tear someone down instead of addressing the inconsistencies. Like hell more than likely do after reading this post.

Whatever though, just my .02
 
i was half joking, im not too concerned with it as I am running a pmag cycle and feel the nolva will be fine..
most of that other stuff is far over my head and i dont think ill ever venture down that road of the more harsher stuff so i dont need to concern myself with the nitty gritty details (not to mention his ridiculous stack lol)
im sure hes not stupid but like somebody said earlier this stuff will always be debated until scientists conduct a study on thousands of juicers and record all the info..from what i read pretty much all the SERM debate is based around breast cancer...
 
JoeySon said:
i was half joking, im not too concerned with it as I am running a pmag cycle and feel the nolva will be fine..
most of that other stuff is far over my head and i dont think ill ever venture down that road of the more harsher stuff so i dont need to concern myself with the nitty gritty details (not to mention his ridiculous stack lol)
im sure hes not stupid but like somebody said earlier this stuff will always be debated until scientists conduct a study on thousands of juicers and record all the info..from what i read pretty much all the SERM debate is based around breast cancer...
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It is mostly all based around breast cancer.
 
The strongest thing clomid has going for it is that actual endocrinologists use it in re-start protocols in their practices. However there are also studies showing the other SERMs to raise LH and FSH as well.

The plain truth of the matter is that there just hasn't been enough proper science performed in studying these compounds for our uses in a controlled environment.
 
thyrod said:
Take his opinion or not.... No need to argue over it.
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Thank you! His main concern and we talk about this all the time is that nolva doesn't agree with 19nors and there r better SERMs out there, that r less harsh. I f*ck with clomid all day, I believe its superior IMO, and I'll try torem too. Raloxifene has me intrigued too.
 
DRSTRISMADAST said:
If anyone ever has any questions about anything concerning Diet, Training, or cycle/PCT info, im always open and will give you the best information to my knowleddge... If i dont know, i will tell you honestly and will never point you in the wrong direction...

One thing I have noticed about the site is that PCT knowledge is very low... I think more emphasize needs to be placed on PCT... Any skinny prick can juice and gain 30 lbs, but its about keeping all the weight you gain..

This is the main reason why i wanted to post this article, im Seeing alot of people using Tamaxifen Citrate in cycle.... bad idea... Simply because nolvadex is a serm of the past... A very knowledgeable source, Some of you guys may know him as NEEDTOGETAAS or Nathan Chase wrote this article up on his site, which i will not name.... Great write up... Enjoy...
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this is where I stopped reading, everything you say from now on has no credibility with me, and no one should listen to anything you have to say.
 
Dr.Stri8ed said:
I don't see why so many ppl r hating on him, its totally uncalled for.
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Reread the thread with an unbiased view and it's not hard to see he came off like a huge dick when questioned. I really don't care if he is Dr. sukinballs with a PhD. in Takeitfromaguy. His posts got mostly the right response.

This is a discussion board. Discuss the information you present in a skillful and respectful manner. Respect will be given back.
 
And there won't be with the patents being expired there is no money in it for pharmaceutical companies. Thus the problem with our health system no money no research.

edit: except for people just trying to help others who research.

ManBeast said:
The strongest thing clomid has going for it is that actual endocrinologists use it in re-start protocols in their practices. However there are also studies showing the other SERMs to raise LH and FSH as well.

The plain truth of the matter is that there just hasn't been enough proper science performed in studying these compounds for our uses in a controlled environment.
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AForney said:
Reread the thread with an unbiased view and it's not hard to see he came off like a huge dick when questioned. I really don't care if he is Dr. sukinballs with a PhD. in Takeitfromaguy. His posts got mostly the right response.

This is a discussion board. Discuss the information you present in a skillful and respectful manner. Respect will be given back.
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I agree. He's just fed up with bad information that's all.
 
Subbed for future arguments lol.


So here's a question for the party: would it be best to use an AI with nolva if nolva is used solo after a cycle? I am gyno sensitive so I am a fan of nolva so far no problems with it...though I have only done orals.
 
I don't care whether you're a janitor or a brain surgeon, I still wanna see legitimate medical studies that contraindicate nolva when using deca. Nobody can drop information that isn't proven without getting questioned. Just post up some links to medical studies that back up your pct claims and what your profession or educational background is will be a moot point.

Edit: links to studies, not copy and pasted.
 
soontobbeast said:
wow.

'' everybody knows you never go full retard''.

You went full retard [ by making this thread],man.

never go full retard.


btw, you should learn something about homophones and homonyms. they kicked your ass in this post.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and surmise that this post is a copy/paste from another individual who didn't get to go to college.
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the newbs dont know nate like we do, and most dont know him like I do.

and im not reading any of that shiit. if someone really wants to know something or get some advice for pct, my email is down below, or feel free to pm me.
 
DRSTRISMADAST said:
You guys rely too much on Wikipedia and drugprofiles.com.... Which are websites that are wrote by idiots with no college experience.. The information in this thread is priceless, and will lead to no problems and a full recovery..... No i do believe some things seem a lil out of whack, and yes this is posted from elitefitness.com from the head moderator of the board... but to say he isnt knowledgeable or criditable is outta whack, allt he wrk from above is cited work...
NOLVA IS NOT FOR PCT..... And you guys think you know what your talking about.. The only reason your saying i put you on blacsts is because of the amount of post... Im a molecular biologist, and im jsut telling you, that if your reallying on nolvadex for pct.... Enjoy the recovery dumbass, its doing nothing but killing all the excess estrogen needed to build muscle... Shot me a crediable current source on why Nolvadex should be used for pct... and ill do the easier part and find you every post as to why it isnt used.... Once i hit 50 post and can use links, its done.. BTW, i joined less than 24 hours ago and have a qtr of your posts... lol, your very knowledgable, one of those dudes that chimes in and doesnt know or care about the well being of other.... Nolvadex is for breast cancer patients who need no esrogen in there breast.... The AR binding abilities **** up AAS espeicially 19 nors, leading to more free roaming Estrogen.... As much as you dont want me to say this im right.... nolva is pct for 70's dude.. u can be like all the guys of the 1970's who are put on trt by 30 and have no sack.... lol, any more hatters???
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yea, guess who gets paid to share his knowledge, advice on androgen usage and such by companies and people (like needto)

hint, he's a rep for sns & cel
 
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