Alchemist's mix for maximum growth

CroLifter

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Yep. Using too much too soon is the biggest factor of why it’s stupid, that and not being able to understand and control sides. What room do you have left for future cycle if you already used what’s strongest. No room at all. Plus I can attest tren is a beast. I’m week 5 in my first cycle and it’s not easy every day. No sleep problems here, I can’t even explain what is it. It’s just tough man, imo it takes an experienced user and somebody mentally strong to survive tren at a decent dosage.
Depression? Anxiety?

I am prone to anxiety and sometimes get it after mk677 dosing.
The other night i took a bit more mk in one sitting and for few hours later felt really anxious and jittery, sucks yeah, some magnesium helps.

And relaxing music.


btw are you using an AI, perhaps too much if you are? I ask because this time around i aint using any and my anxiety is extremely low compared to my previous cycle or when i am off, and i am a pretty happy person in general on this cycle, compwred to being in darker mood when i use an AI.
 
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Mathb33

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Depression? Anxiety?

I am prone to anxiety and sometimes get it after mk677 dosing.
The other night i took a bit more mk in one sitting and for few hours later felt really anxious and jittery, sucks yeah, some magnesium helps.

And relaxing music.


btw are you using an AI, perhaps too much if you are? I ask because this time around i aint using any and my anxiety is extremely low compared to my previous cycle or when i am off, and i am a pretty happy person in general on this cycle, compwred to being in darker mood when i use an AI.
Really not much anxiety... no depression at all I’m the same goofy guy. I couldn’t even explain it lol. Some days I just feel weird. Some days I’m completely fine! I’m on 12.5 exem eod! Since EQ supposedly acts as an ai to certain dwgeee maybe I am using too much idk... honestly I suspect it might be melanotan 2 also, lately when I’ve used I felt like absolute garbage. Or a mix of it all. I really wish I could explain it better but I can’t haha. Just started using caber 0.25 Twice a week also (first dose yesterday) wasn’t using any caber the first 4 weeks.
 
Mathb33

Mathb33

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@CroLifter think i should loser exem to 6.25 eod? 300test 300 tren 600 eq right now.. thought 12.5 wasn’t that much
 

CroLifter

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Really not much anxiety... no depression at all I’m the same goofy guy. I couldn’t even explain it lol. Some days I just feel weird. Some days I’m completely fine! I’m on 12.5 exem eod! Since EQ supposedly acts as an ai to certain dwgeee maybe I am using too much idk... honestly I suspect it might be melanotan 2 also, lately when I’ve used I felt like absolute garbage. Or a mix of it all. I really wish I could explain it better but I can’t haha. Just started using caber 0.25 Twice a week also (first dose yesterday) wasn’t using any caber the first 4 weeks.
Well, caber is going to make you feel weird af. I was hearing a doorbell when it didnt ring.

Also, as far as i remember, you are using 300mg of test. Imho that is way too much AI for that dose i would have crashed e2 for sure.

On 500 test i took 12.5mg for 3 days in a row, first day aggression and libido sky rocketed and then on the 3rd day i started feeling bad, crashed my e2 hard, was falling asleep all day.


I know that you are older and more experienced than me, but perhaps try 6.25mg 2x a week and see how it goes? Or try going without it (i would do this) until/if gyno symptoms arise. You will still stay extremely tight because of tren.

Unless you are in pre contest prep, i dont think its necessary to take an ai unless you have gyno symptoms.
 
Mathb33

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Well, caber is going to make you feel weird af. I was hearing a doorbell when it didnt ring.

Also, as far as i remember, you are using 300mg of test. Imho that is way too much AI for that dose i would have crashed e2 for sure.

On 500 test i took 12.5mg for 3 days in a row, first day aggression and libido sky rocketed and then on the 3rd day i started feeling bad, crashed my e2 hard, was falling asleep all day.


I know that you are older and more experienced than me, but perhaps try 6.25mg 2x a week and see how it goes? Or try going without it (i would do this) until/if gyno symptoms arise. You will still stay extremely tight because of tren.

Unless you are in pre contest prep, i dont think its necessary to take an ai unless you have gyno symptoms.
I don’t think I’m more experienced than you. Perhaps on the field but I respect your knowledge regardless. You are right for me the ai is way too much for that test dosage I just thought I needed more because of tren. Since I’ll have caber low dose I think I should definitely lower to 6.25.. you are right I’m simply possibly feeling off because my e is a bit low... especially since I’m a guy that feels it’s best at a relatively high estrogen.
 
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@CroLifter if it’s worth anything I’d say I feel tighter than usual. Lots and lots of muscle cramps, more tired than I usually am when I sleep 7-8hours. I’ve never had low E Problems so I’m not really aware about it.
 

CroLifter

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@CroLifter if it’s worth anything I’d say I feel tighter than usual. Lots and lots of muscle cramps, more tired than I usually am when I sleep 7-8hours. I’ve never had low E Problems so I’m not really aware about it.
I don't remember getting muscle cramps while having crashed e2. I remember feeling extremely tired, sometimes a bit flat and anxious. One time it was bad and my BP was 140/90 as I was anxious and was for a couple days.

I also wouldn't be taking caber prophylactically 😁 but at least it doesn't mess with your gains like AI does by lowering estro and igf 1.

Because caber can make you feel shitty too. Every time I took it, I reacted different but always in a negative way.

Honestly caber in my case wasn't needed when I experienced gyno lumps. AI is what stopped soreness.

It is my knowledge (could be wrong) that estro is what grows the breast tissue and prolactin just stimulates lactation. So better to solve the underlying case (high estro) as lowering prolactin won't stop gyno.
 
Mathb33

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@CroLifter idk what I was thinking as tren doesn’t even really convert to estrogen directly... I definitely probably have Lowish E. I’m always the one to say don’t play guess game but tonight I’ll dose my oils and probably won’t take my exem dose. Next pin in 2 days I’ll start taking 6.25. This should help. What you think
 

CroLifter

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@CroLifter idk what I was thinking as tren doesn’t even really convert to estrogen directly... I definitely probably have Lowish E. I’m always the one to say don’t play guess game but tonight I’ll dose my oils and probably won’t take my exem dose. Next pin in 2 days I’ll start taking 6.25. This should help. What you think
I think it will help but i would dose 6.25 2x a week instead of eod at first, if you really have to use some AI for piece of mind.


What you can also do is substitute some of the test and/or eq dose for masteron and avoid ai completely.


PS: i think we need to have a pinned thread at the top called sth like "daily question feed" or "general q/a" (regarding anabolics) or whatever where we can just discuss things like this without derailing people's threads. To clean up this subforum a bit.
 
Mathb33

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I think it will help but i would dose 6.25 2x a week instead of eod at first, if you really have to use some AI for piece of mind.


What you can also do is substitute some of the test and/or eq dose for masteron and avoid ai completely.


PS: i think we need to have a pinned thread at the top called sth like "daily question feed" or "general q/a" (regarding anabolics) or whatever where we can just discuss things like this without derailing people's threads. To clean up this subforum a bit.
I think this idea of random question is awesome. Don’t know what @Admin thinks of it
 
SkRaw85

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Tren loves estrogen. 12.5mg exem every 4 days is my sweet spot (and that’s with 450 trest and 200 test alongside it). Learned real fast the first week I introduced it and crashed estro right out of the gate within 4 days. Could t get it up if I had to save my life. You both have been complaining of zero libido. I can’t fathom zero libido on tren. Remember in cattle they would inject huge doses of estro with finaplix. Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it I don’t mind.
 
Mathb33

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Tren loves estrogen. 12.5mg exem every 4 days is my sweet spot (and that’s with 450 trest and 200 test alongside it). Learned real fast the first week I introduced it and crashed estro right out of the gate within 4 days. Could t get it up if I had to save my life. You both have been complaining of zero libido. I can’t fathom zero libido on tren. Remember in cattle they would inject huge doses of estro with finaplix. Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it I don’t mind.
I appreciate you come and give me advice bro. Definitely skipping my AI dose for tonight’s pin to let estrogen go up a bit and I’ll start dosing lower, 12.5 once a week or 6.25 twice a week, something like that. I was on 12.5 eod right now.
 
SkRaw85

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I appreciate you come and give me advice bro. Definitely skipping my AI dose for tonight’s pin to let estrogen go up a bit and I’ll start dosing lower, 12.5 once a week or 6.25 twice a week, something like that. I was on 12.5 eod right now.
Just trying to get you hard . But in all honesty I believe it to be the culprit. When I was only using 450 trest/200 test I had to dose 12.5 exem ed. I introduced tren hex at 210 mg and kept same ai dosing. That was a huge mistake and it was evident within a few days. ZERO libido and just felt like anxious dog crap. Everything is dialed in now, stacking mass, growing stronger, and I’m at full mast 17 hrs a day. It’s almost a problem, almost.
 
Mathb33

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Just trying to get you hard . But in all honesty I believe it to be the culprit. When I was only using 450 trest/200 test I had to dose 12.5 exem ed. I introduced tren hex at 210 mg and kept same ai dosing. That was a huge mistake and it was evident within a few days. ZERO libido and just felt like anxious dog crap. Everything is dialed in now, stacking mass, growing stronger, and I’m at full mast 17 hrs a day. It’s almost a problem, almost.
Wait...! The way you’re saying this you were fine and when you introduced tren you needed less ai?
 
Hyde

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Because caber can make you feel shitty too. Every time I took it, I reacted different but always in a negative way.

Honestly caber in my case wasn't needed when I experienced gyno lumps. AI is what stopped soreness.

It is my knowledge (could be wrong) that estro is what grows the breast tissue and prolactin just stimulates lactation. So better to solve the underlying case (high estro) as lowering prolactin won't stop gyno.
This last part is not correct, at least not from a practical standpoint. If your prolactin gets too high, be prepared for growth.

The best thing you can do from an absolute muscle growth perspective is take something like Raloxifene, Masteron, Proviron, RAD140 that competes for the estrogen receptors at the breast but won’t meaningfully impact IGF1 and let estrogen be as high as possible (Tamoxifen lowers IGF1 about 25% if I recall correctly, while Ralox is substantially less). Then control prolactin with Caber, prami, bromocriptine, selegilene, L-Dopa & B6.

But the higher estrogen is, the higher it will be to avoid gyno aggravation at a given prolactin level. So there are gives and takes to find a balance for what you are trying to achieve. If you want to look the best for something, you’re going to be a lot drier using a larger amount of AI. And you will be able to get away with less prolactin control (probably) if using more AI and SERM.

I have only ever used the same bottle of Cabergoline, but I don’t notice any “sides”, except it meaningfully lowers blood pressure the way Tadalafil does - so watch for that.
 
Alchemist11

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Apologies @Alchemist11 for this massive train derailment
No problem brother! And you are right, I always preach how Estrogen is important with Tren, just like I explained and showed you guys in previous and this cycle log. Thats why I never use AI (part that I'm lucky that don't have problems with high E, and part that I know I'll grow with higher E and I feel fine with it).
 
Alchemist11

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Update time boys
Current weight 194lbs, everything is going well, this week, I'll inject last shots of sustanon, total of 375 mg. I started taking ghrp-6 with Cjc DAC in the morning and pre workout. Bf is going down nicely
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