AI's

[batmanraider9]

Does taking AI's while not on cycle have a negative effect on muscle growth? Wondering if reducing estrogen is a bad thing. Currently taking Aromasin at 12.5mg EOD, but thinking of switching to Letrone.

 

[audi4796]

Yes why the **** would u do that estrogen is needed for growth and if u crash if ur dick won’t work and you’ll have anxiety and depression

why tf would u even consider that

 

[audi4796]

Estrogen also upregulates androgen receptors and lowering it will also probably lead to a higher conversion to dht lower igf 1 and **** up your cholesterol

I run 750 test without an ai they’re overused

 

[batmanraider9]

Yes why the **** would u do that estrogen is needed for growth and if u crash if ur dick won’t work and you’ll have anxiety and depression

why tf would u even consider that

Estrogen also upregulates androgen receptors and lowering it will also probably lead to a higher conversion to dht lower igf 1 and **** up your cholesterol

I run 750 test without an ai they’re overused

It was recomended to me for gyno. Would i be fine if i switch over to Letrone?

 

[Renew1]

It was recomended to me for gyno. Would i be fine if i switch over to Letrone?

Do you have gyno?

 

[batmanraider9]

Do you have gyno?

Yeah bro

 

[CroLifter]

Yeah bro

I wouol follow the raloxifene protocol and ditch the ai. You are fuking up your joints, your musle gain, your bone density and lipids by using an ai constantly.

 

[Renew1]

Yeah bro

I would do Ralox. Too much AI is not a good thing IMO. And Ralox is generally pretty effective.

 

[ChocolateClen]

Low low looooow dose AI maybe 1x a week possibly 2, and ralox. Ai will keep the water weight and bloat down and Ralox will help with the gyno. We’re talking like 6.25mg 1x a week on the ai though

If you have gyno you’re probably prone to converting test to estrogen, high SHBG or you have a lot of receptors. Most guys aren’t going to need an ai but I HAVE to use one every time I run test. Low dose but I have too, I end up super bloated and puffy faced etc if I don’t. No way around that, just how you are.

You and I are probably in the same boat here and I can tell you that if you’re like me and you don’t know dose an ai, you’re going to be miserable

All the above is for on cycle. If you’re off cycle just run an AI for 2 days, 12.5mg and Ralox 120mg Ed for 2-4 weeks till you see some changes and then switch to 60mg Ed till you’re happy. Since you have gyno it’ll come back when you cycle if you don’t follow my advice above, just how it is with that ****. The ai is to bottom out estrogen, somehow makes the Ralox work faster, I don’t know why. Maybe cause it doesn’t have to compete for receptors to bind too?

 

[Mathb33]

A great great great way to avoid bloat and water retention (that’s probably why you want to take an Ai) is to not be fat. Lose weight and get to around 10% and you won’t have that issue anymore. AI isn’t a short Cut to look leaner.

 

[Renew1]

A great great great way to avoid bloat and water retention (that’s probably why you want to take an Ai) is to not be fat. Lose weight and get to around 10% and you won’t have that issue anymore. AI isn’t a short Cut to look leaner.

Gyno.

 

[Mathb33]

Gyno.

I didn’t see him mention gyno, my bad.It’s typical for people to take low dose AI because they think they’ll hold less water when they are 20% BF and just fat. Which is a funny way of thinking from my POV that’s why I mentionned that, that’s all. Do you have a little grudge against me Mr renew?

 

[Renew1]

I didn’t see him mention gyno, my bad.It’s typical for people to take low dose AI because they think they’ll hold less water when they are 20% BF and just fat. Which is a funny way of thinking from my POV that’s why I mentionned that, that’s all. Do you have a little grudge against me Mr renew?

LOL.
Absolutely not, Brother! I enjoy seeing your comments.
It was just a brief comment to get you up to speed, right after I got up.
I didn't get home until almost 4:00am, and I'm getting ready now to get back at it. ..You should come along.

But, yeah....I agree with what you said. Lately I've been promoting less of a usage of AIs. So many newer guys don't seem to really understand about how and why to use AIs, and when not to.

(He didn't mention gyno in the original post).

 

[Mathb33]

Okay lol! Happy to know that, you’re one of the great figures of this forum. OP ignore my comment and I can’t help you regarding anything gyno related as I’m not prone to it I didn’t research it much if any at all. @Matthersby is fighting titties year round maybe he can help you

 

[ChocolateClen]

LOL.
Absolutely not, Brother! I enjoy seeing your comments.
It was just a brief comment to get you up to speed, right after I got up.
I didn't get home until almost 4:00am, and I'm getting ready now to get back at it. ..You should come along.

But, yeah....I agree with what you said. Lately I've been promoting less of a usage of AIs. So many newer guys don't seem to really understand about how and why to use AIs, and when not to.

(He didn't mention gyno in the original post).

The dude that helps me plan my cycles and stuff went fuckin off on me for running 25mg if exem eod. We’ve figure out what generally works well for me now but man so AIs **** you up if you aren’t careful. We got in to it cause my dick stopped working for a while but we adjusted stuff and found a good dose that keeps my estrogen down without bombing it.

Just takes time

 

[Renew1]

The dude that helps me plan my cycles and stuff went fuckin off on me for running 25mg if exem eod. We’ve figure out what generally works well for me now but man so AIs **** you up if you aren’t careful. We got in to it cause my dick stopped working for a while but we adjusted stuff and found a good dose that keeps my estrogen down without bombing it.

Just takes time

I've talked to so many guys recently who've dug themselves into a hole, from slamming AIs. It almost seems like a trend.
I'm glad you're getting it straightened out, man.

 

[ChocolateClen]

I've talked to so many guys recently who've dug themselves into a hole, from slamming AIs. It almost seems like a trend.
I'm glad you're getting it straightened out, man.

Oh I’ve had it straightened out for a while now, it’s always a bit of a guessing game when starting up a cycle though since I’m so gyno prone. Op will probably be in the same boat as me.

 

[Smont]

Yes why the **** would u do that estrogen is needed for growth and if u crash if ur dick won’t work and you’ll have anxiety and depression

why tf would u even consider that

Calm down lol, it's not that black and white. Keeping estrogen in range is important too. If your on a gram of test your most likely going to need a ai. And controlling estrogen is fine and won't hinder growth. Absolutely killing it is a terrible idea tho. Aside from the gains it will kill your dick too. To the op, don't just take a ai for the sake of taking one if your estrogen is not out of control. I like to keep mine in the high normal range but unless you have had blood work before your not going to know what that is. My suggestion to you if u don't have bloods to go by is don't use a ai unless u have high estrogen sides

 

[thebigt]

AI's are like many, many things in life=THE POISON IS IN THE DOSING....

 

[batmanraider9]

Would I be fine if i switch to Letrone. Its a plant and i dont think there is side effects

 

[ChocolateClen]

Just get some Ralox lol it’ll work better I promise

 

[Smont]

What is your reason for wanting to lower estrogen?

 

[batmanraider9]

What is your reason for wanting to lower estrogen?

When i was on aromasin i felt stronger and was hitting PR's. Felt really anabolic.

 

[batmanraider9]

Just get some Ralox lol it’ll work better I promise

Just got some Ralox yesterday.

 

[Smont]

When i was on aromasin i felt stronger and was hitting PR's. Felt really anabolic.

I think it was a coincidence, more estrogen usually=more strength. As far as I know there's nothing about aromasin that increases strength

 

[CroLifter]

I think it was a coincidence, more estrogen usually=more strength. As far as I know there's nothing about aromasin that increases strength

Exactly, it is just the mental component of i guess higher free test : e2 ratios.

Higher estro usually means more gains yes. However, as much as i dislike ai's, i feel better when taking one.

Aggression in the gym is better and overall mood is fantastic. Also, i get morning wood if i use an ai and dont get it if i dont use some aromasin (libido follows, no ai= no/low libido, ai = fantastic libido)

But i still prefer not to use one as my lipid profile doesnt look good if i regularly use an ai. Also, strength and mass gains suffer if you go hard on the ai, you get flat too.

 

[Smont]

Exactly, it is just the mental component of i guess higher free test : e2 ratios.

Higher estro usually means more gains yes. However, as much as i dislike ai's, i feel better when taking one.

Aggression in the gym is better and overall mood is fantastic. Also, i get morning wood if i use an ai and dont get it if i dont use some aromasin (libido follows, no ai= no/low libido, ai = fantastic libido)

But i still prefer not to use one as my lipid profile doesnt look good if i regularly use an ai. Also, strength and mass gains suffer if you go hard on the ai, you get flat too.

I've yet to experience libido problem on gear with or without a ai. I've never crashed estrogen but I have had it high on paper with no noticable problems.

 

[Mathb33]

I've yet to experience libido problem on gear with or without a ai. I've never crashed estrogen but I have had it high on paper with no noticable problems.

Same for me. we are just on the lucky side. My E could be 15 or 140 and my dick would be the same.

 

[batmanraider9]

Exactly, it is just the mental component of i guess higher free test : e2 ratios.

Higher estro usually means more gains yes. However, as much as i dislike ai's, i feel better when taking one.

Aggression in the gym is better and overall mood is fantastic. Also, i get morning wood if i use an ai and dont get it if i dont use some aromasin (libido follows, no ai= no/low libido, ai = fantastic libido)

But i still prefer not to use one as my lipid profile doesnt look good if i regularly use an ai. Also, strength and mass gains suffer if you go hard on the ai, you get flat too.

Yes CroLifter. We're the same. Im able to lift more on AI's, but feel flat. I cant wait till my estrogen comes back up to see if i feel fuller.

 

[batmanraider9]

Will Letrone be okay? Its the atractylodes macrocephala plant. I dont think it will be nearly as strong as a pharma AI. And probably no side effects. Im looking for the anabolic effects Aromasin gave me.

 

[CroLifter]

Yes CroLifter. We're the same. Im able to lift more on AI's, but feel flat. I cant wait till my estrogen comes back up to see if i feel fuller.

I mean i am not stronger with an ai, i just feel waaaaay better. Gains are a little bit better without an ai for me.

it is just that without an ai i get a little bit depressed, and have a feeling of burden on top of me, i just feel off, like a teenage girl.

 

[kisaj]

Crazy how everyone went full 180 on AIs. Not even a year ago everyone was clambering for the latest innovative way to reduce estrogen and now there are posts encouraging to drive it high. Personally, I don't care about any opinions or "studies", I find that I feel best with it maintained in the middle of the range.

 

[Smont]

Crazy how everyone went full 180 on AIs. Not even a year ago everyone was clambering for the latest innovative way to reduce estrogen and now there are posts encouraging to drive it high. Personally, I don't care about any opinions or "studies", I find that I feel best with it maintained in the middle of the range.

It's because everyone sees something on the internet and they start preaching it as a fact. It happens with everything. I've done it myself when I was younger. Now a days I take everything with a grain of salt and just do what I think works best for me

 

[Mathb33]

Crazy how everyone went full 180 on AIs. Not even a year ago everyone was clambering for the latest innovative way to reduce estrogen and now there are posts encouraging to drive it high. Personally, I don't care about any opinions or "studies", I find that I feel best with it maintained in the middle of the range.

people go south to north drastically and don’t really get the difference between keeping your estrogen high (top range or a little out of range 60-70ish is good for gains and other benefits ) and just flat out no AI BeCAuSe EStrOgEn is GooD and end up with 160 but just because they don’t have gyno or other sides they believe it’s healthy and good for gains.

 

[UNX]

Will Letrone be okay? Its the atractylodes macrocephala plant. I dont think it will be nearly as strong as a pharma AI. And probably no side effects. Im looking for the anabolic effects Aromasin gave me.

Maybe, I don't know about its effectiveness, but some OTC AIs can be very potent. Flavozole can kill your estrogen if dosed high, for example.

 

[thebigt]

It's because everyone sees something on the internet and they start preaching it as a fact. It happens with everything. I've done it myself when I was younger. Now a days I take everything with a grain of salt and just do what I think works best for me

fortunately 'most' people get wiser as they get older....

 

[Renew1]

Crazy how everyone went full 180 on AIs. Not even a year ago everyone was clambering for the latest innovative way to reduce estrogen and now there are posts encouraging to drive it high. Personally, I don't care about any opinions or "studies", I find that I feel best with it maintained in the middle of the range.

In the past week I've seen a number of comments that included, "everyone said". But I can tell you that in each of those circumstances I wasn't part of "everyone".

 

[Mathb33]

In the past week I've seen a number of comments that included, "everyone said". But I can tell you that in each of those circumstances I wasn't part of "everyone".

Yeah but AIs are bad for your health... iTs BETtER tO bE iN the 150+ eSTrOgEN RANgE... like high estrogen wasn’t super nasty for general heart health.

 

[Renew1]

Yeah but AIs are bad for your health... iTs BETtER tO bE iN the 150+ eSTrOgEN RANgE... like high estrogen wasn’t super nasty for general heart health.

LOL. I generally let mine float a little higher than most. But 150+ = WOW.

 

[Mathb33]

LOL. I generally let mine float a little higher than most. But 150+ = WOW.

Ive learned recently that I feel great a bit higher and even a little out of range so I certainly agree with you. I just think people go 0 to 100 on things... people are stopping any AIs now and as long as they don’t have gyno or sides they think it’s okay whatever the E is and I think it’s a very dangerous idea that’s spreading around lately.

 

[manifesto]

I'm around 40-50 and taking a good amount of test...no AI

 

[ChocolateClen]

I need an AI if I bump my test up to 300mg a week. Just how it be sometimes

 

[Smont]

I need an AI if I bump my test up to 300mg a week. Just how it be sometimes

I never needed a ai till like 750mg test but ever since my last td trest run, which was only 30mg a day. It screwed something up and now I need it over 300mg or so. Nipples stay a little puffy and tender if I dont

 

[ChocolateClen]

I never needed a ai till like 750mg test but ever since my last td trest run, which was only 30mg a day. It screwed something up and now I need it over 300mg or so. Nipples stay a little puffy and tender if I dont

I creased receptor count from the treat, probably prolactin receptors

 

[Smont]

I creased receptor count from the treat, probably prolactin receptors

Maybe I should get something like inhibit p and see if it changes anything

 

[ChocolateClen]

Maybe I should get something like inhibit p and see if it changes anything

Nah receptor count is a perm thing. That’s why once you have gyno it’s super easy to get It back

 

[Smont]

Nah receptor count is a perm thing. That’s why once you have gyno it’s super easy to get It back

Well that sucks, luckily it's not gone past puffy and sensitivity, no lumps or nothing

 

[thebigt]

Yeah but AIs are bad for your health... iTs BETtER tO bE iN the 150+ eSTrOgEN RANgE... like high estrogen wasn’t super nasty for general heart health.

since i'm older than most here prostate health is a real concern for me...recently I've been hearing that estrogen could be more of a risk than dht for developing prostate issues. some researchers are looking at serms as alternative to anti-androgen treatment for prostate issues.

 

[Renew1]

since i'm older than most here prostate health is a real concern for me...recently I've been hearing that estrogen could be more of a risk than dht for developing prostate issues. some researchers are looking at serms as alternative to anti-androgen treatment for prostate issues.

SERMs block Estrogen receptors at the prostate?

 

[Mathb33]

since i'm older than most here prostate health is a real concern for me...recently I've been hearing that estrogen could be more of a risk than dht for developing prostate issues. some researchers are looking at serms as alternative to anti-androgen treatment for prostate issues.

100% agree with you. High estrogen (probably way out of range) is horrible for the heart and I’ve read too that it’s putting an excessive stress on the prostate. I’m testing right now where the limit is tho, at least for me. I’m trying to stay within 60-80 and so far it seems beneficial.