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Advanced Fat Loss Discussion (alpha/beta receptors)

echoenyx said:
hmm, how about this stack
E = 25mg
C = 200mg
Green Tea = 500mg
Cayenne = 40,000 STU

three times daily.
I'm thinking of adding 2.5mg of yohimbine hcl, is that fine, higher lower etc?
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Ohhh dunno main. I could use that much yohim but it's taken me a while to be able to work up to that.

Start at 2.5 once per day, I'd say. Ramp up slowly.
 
This thread got slightly off base. Y, whether its the HCl, 11-OH, Alpha version, is something that some can handle easily and others cannot. That being said, it is generally not a compound that is used properly. As B indicated earlier, Y has to be in an insulin free environment for lipolysis, so the best time to use it is in a CKD, Paleo, or any other carb restricted environment. Also, again this is lost far too often, a proper fat loss diet, which in and of itself can vary immensely from person to person, is the most important element to losing fat, not a stack of supplements.
 
echoenyx said:
hmm, how about this stack
E = 25mg
C = 200mg
Green Tea = 500mg
Cayenne = 40,000 STU

three times daily.
I'm thinking of adding 2.5mg of yohimbine hcl, is that fine, higher lower etc?
Click to expand...

Start with that above once per day. I would recommend going C or GTE, not both. Cayenne isn't necessary, but feel free to give it a shot. Once you adapt to the one dosage a day, up the above protocol to twice per day. Don't exceed over 100mg of E, and once you're adapted to that i'd take at least a week off to bring your tolerance back down. As for the Y if you'd actually read the thread, it's .10mg/lb of bw.

I agree with B5150, lots of spoon feeding going on here. You guys need to READ the thread. All of this has been covered already.
 
Alpha-Burn ship Wednesday. I am paying for overnight shipping of SOME units to Nutra (so Thursday or Friday morning), and the rest will be there on Monday.
 
Rodja said:
This thread got slightly off base. Y, whether its the HCl, 11-OH, Alpha version, is something that some can handle easily and others cannot. That being said, it is generally not a compound that is used properly. As B indicated earlier, Y has to be in an insulin free environment for lipolysis, so the best time to use it is in a CKD, Paleo, or any other carb restricted environment. Also, again this is lost far too often, a proper fat loss diet, which in and of itself can vary immensely from person to person, is the most important element to losing fat, not a stack of supplements.
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:goodpost:
 
Rodja said:
That being said, it is generally not a compound that is used properly. As B indicated earlier, Y has to be in an insulin free environment for lipolysis, so the best time to use it is in a CKD, Paleo, or any other carb restricted environment. Also, again this is lost far too often, a proper fat loss diet, which in and of itself can vary immensely from person to person, is the most important element to losing fat, not a stack of supplements.
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Ahhhh....the refreshing sounds of reason.
 
Anabolic Pump is beneficial even when there are no carbs, especially in fasted state workouts or cardio.
 
B5150 said:
Anabolic Pump is beneficial even when there are no carbs, especially in fasted state workouts or cardio.
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i've heard nothing but the complete opposite and that if u don't take in carbs you'll go hypo and feel like crap
 
From my fasted training protocol journal: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/96784-b5150-transcending-agedness.html
Mulletsoldier said:
Anabolic Pump is often conceptualized as merely a supplement of glucose homeostasis. While that's true in part, its true identity is one of energy metabolism as a whole; specifically, modulating energy expenditure and transfer in both fat and muscle cells, via the modulation of energy storage and production mechanisms.

During a long bout of exercise (i.e., an hour long resistance training session) your body's energy homeostasis mechanisms need to take on a more oxidative (the B-oxidation of fatty acids) as opposed to glycolytic (GLUT4 translocation and glucose storage) role. This is due in part to the inability of the body to produce the fuel (glucose) for anabolic processes at the rates needed for anaerobic exercise. In response, your body has in place several mechanisms which prevent the accumulation and synthesis of triglycerides and lipids, and release them into the bloodstream to be oxidized.

These lipolytic processes actually contribute to the majority of energy transaction in a bout of anaerobic exercise - the oxidation of fatty acids and plasma triglycerides, primarily, provide the energy for resistance training.

The reason I mention all this is Anabolic Pump's fascinating ability to regulate one of the vanguards of oxidative and glycolytic energy consumption - AMPk. AMPk works as an essential gate-keeper of energy production, reacting to extracellular fluctuations of various downstream energy messengers (AMP:ATP ratio included). Its activation is responsible for various roles, including all of the above mentioned.

Using such a product in conjunction with fasted cardio simply utilizes energy which would have been stored anyway. The mere presence of AMPk ensures that the liberated fatty acids and triglycerides will be oxidized as it plays a primary role in not only lipolysis, but the inhibition of lipid, triglyceride, and cholesterol synthesis.

In terms of blood glucose, you should have circulating plasma levels which are enough to stave off hypoglycaemia, even with the use of Anabolic Pump. As carbohydrates have not been ingested, the presence of Insulin (the main inducer of hypoglycemia) is not necessarily present. Anabolic Pump works through Insulin-reactive, though not dependent, pathways of energy metabolism. The lipolytic role is also enough to provide ample energy.

Hope that helps!
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hey B,
Im thinking about trying this...ECA for 4 weeks, then immediately dropping the E&C but only taking 1 or 2 pills of Y for about a week, then doing ECY.
ECA:1/2/3/3
Y:0/0/0/0/2
ECY:0/0/0/0/1/2/3/3

see what Im asking??
 
True I have used this before, But Can I take AP fasted before the gym on a CKD diet??? will I reap the same results, or just be tired because I took AP and I have not glucose/glycogen in my body?
 
benj851 said:
True I have used this before, But Can I take AP fasted before the gym on a CKD diet??? will I reap the same results, or just be tired because I took AP and I have not glucose/glycogen in my body?
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Yes. Re-reading the last few posts should give you your answer.
 
KgTomCat said:
hey B,
Im thinking about trying this...ECA for 4 weeks, then immediately dropping the E&C but only taking 1 or 2 pills of Y for about a week, then doing ECY.
ECA:1/2/3/3
Y:0/0/0/0/2
ECY:0/0/0/0/1/2/3/3

see what Im asking??
Click to expand...
You are complicating this whole ECA/ECY supplementation matter with this ramping and tapering business. Take it or don't take it. Simple.

25mg E/ 200mg C/7.5mg Y - 3 to 4 X's
 
B5150 said:
You are complicating this whole ECA/ECY supplementation matter with this ramping and tapering business. Take it or don't take it. Simple.

25mg E/ 200mg C/7.5mg Y - 3 to 4 X's
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I thought you had to 'ramp' up the dosage, if you just start out with 3-4X, you'll build a tolerance :dunno:
 
For first times users you ramp up your dose to assess your tolerance to stimulants, especially the combination of a vasoconstrictor and vasodilator. Like anything we develop a tolerance after a period of time. The tolerance to the stimulant effect does not negate the thermogenic effects.
 
B5150 said:
The tolerance to the stimulant effect does not negate the thermogenic effects.
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oh, was not aware...so even though we dont feel the stims "working" they still are? And I can just start off at 3X a day..? just checking btw
 
KgTomCat said:
oh, was not aware...so even though we dont feel the stims "working" they still are? And I can just start off at 3X a day..? just checking btw
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Dude, you did say you are in college, right?

I said assess your tolerance. That means find out what your tolerance is by dosing incrimentally up to the desired performance without the undesireable side effects.
 
B5150 said:
Dude, you did say you are in college, right?

I said assess your tolerance. That means find out what your tolerance is by dosing incrimentally up to the desired performance without the undesireable side effects.
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I already assessed my tolerance when I get ECA 2 weeks ago, so when I do it again, are you saying to re-assess my tolerance or jump straight to a high dose?
 
Trauma1 said:
Y will definitely add to the process. It stimulates NE (Norepinepherine) production which acts on both Alpha and Beta receptors. The Beta receptor stimulation is very desirable in terms of fatloss, but NE also stimulates the Alpha-2 receptor which can hamper the process. The great thing about Y is that is also blocks (antagonizes) the Alpha-2 receptor and further potentiates the effects of lipolysis.

Alpha-Yohimbine is quite the additive to the ECY stack.
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Okay I understand. The mysterious element in Y is noradendenalin (norepinephin) linked.

On a different note I used transdermal green tea with "Hoodia". I had no idea what "Hoodia" was, I was after the EGCG and technically there is supposed to be a ban on Hoodia export.

Had no appetite what so ever, couldn't even down a protein shake. Shocking.
 
KgTomCat said:
take it if you want. Those type of supps are only an excuse for having weak discipline.
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if I cut out carbs to a very low state I get very, and I mean very foggy headed. To the point where people at work think I'm drunk, on drugs or havent slept in days.
So if I prefer to keep my job and have a 'weak discipline' sue me :fing26:
 
B5150 said:
If you have already determined you dose tolerance (the amount you can take without adverse sides) then there is no reason why you can't begin a dose schedule just like you have in the passed.
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ok, that makes sense because then I would be wasting the first 2 weeks. But then is running ECA for 4 weeks at 3X ED safe? May be a dumb question...
 
sorry but this may not be advanced, how do you prevent yourself from losing your gains?
how can me use Y in an 'advanced' way?
 
so there is no word on geranium oil in this thread? i thought it was a powerful alternative.

how is this alternative stack?
1 25mg primaforce geranium 2x a day
1 alpha-burn 3x a day
1 rk-500 3x a day
1 syn-30 3x a day
200mg caffeine 2x a day
green tea 3x a day
 
I know you all feel like you can take it, and you're safe, but there really is nothing safe about taking ephedrine with oral yohimbine. I do not recommend it at all.
 
Dragon13 said:
Interesting. Care to expound on that just a bit?
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Combining a beta-2 agonist with an alpha-2 antagonist is a recipe for elevated heart rate and high blood pressure. Yeah, you feel extra stimmed out and you may feel like its burning through fat, but the potential health risks aren't worth it.

By all means use EC or CY, but i don't think EY is smart at all.
 
Robboe said:
Combining a beta-2 agonist with an alpha-2 antagonist is a recipe for elevated heart rate and high blood pressure. Yeah, you feel extra stimmed out and you may feel like its burning through fat, but the potential health risks aren't worth it.

By all means use EC or CY, but i don't think EY is smart at all.
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I have been preaching that for years, but people still feel like ECY is a safe stack.
 
Robboe said:
Combining a beta-2 agonist with an alpha-2 antagonist is a recipe for elevated heart rate and high blood pressure. Yeah, you feel extra stimmed out and you may feel like its burning through fat, but the potential health risks aren't worth it.

By all means use EC or CY, but i don't think EY is smart at all.
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I have to disagree with you here....Alpha-Yohimbine, though an A-2 agonist with different subtype affinities to Y, gives me zero elevated heart rate, no anxiety, and no blood pressure increase.

Yohimbine orally, on the other hand...blech.
 
dsade said:
I have to disagree with you here....Alpha-Yohimbine, though an A-2 agonist with different subtype affinities to Y, gives me zero elevated heart rate, no anxiety, and no blood pressure increase.

Yohimbine orally, on the other hand...blech.
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I am of the same camp... I was referring to regular ol Yoh. That crap is terrible!
 
Robboe said:
Combining a beta-2 agonist with an alpha-2 antagonist is a recipe for elevated heart rate and high blood pressure. Yeah, you feel extra stimmed out and you may feel like its burning through fat, but the potential health risks aren't worth it.

By all means use EC or CY, but i don't think EY is smart at all.
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Eh. I haven't experienced high blood pressure on ECY. Elevated heart rate yes, but that's kind of the point. Caffeine alone - a cup of coffee - can give elevated heart rate to people who aren't stim-tolerant. I am very stim-tolerant. JMO.
 
Dragon13 said:
Eh. I haven't experienced high blood pressure on ECY. Elevated heart rate yes, but that's kind of the point. Caffeine alone - a cup of coffee - can give elevated heart rate to people who aren't stim-tolerant. I am very stim-tolerant. JMO.
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Doesn't mean that people should be giving advice to everyone to stack E with Y.
 
Cant wait to try stack my Y with some C in a week or so when It arrives, for now, just using my C + Alcar on my UD 2.0 cut cycle. Things are going good thus far with fat loss. Cant wait to see how much of a difference this will make.
 
WilteredFire said:
Cant wait to try stack my Y with some C in a week or so when It arrives, for now, just using my C + Alcar on my UD 2.0 cut cycle. Things are going good thus far with fat loss. Cant wait to see how much of a difference this will make.
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If you're down to stubborn fat you should notice a good difference, providing you're not one of the people that cannot tolerate Y.
 
Robboe said:
If you're down to stubborn fat you should notice a good difference, providing you're not one of the people that cannot tolerate Y.
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Ive used a product earlier this year that had 9mg total yohimbine hcl per serving (the entire days dose) and I tolerated that perfectly fine so took the jump to getting some bulk y-hcl. I should be fine as ive had some dmaa powder in the past and never had a problem with going upto around 60 ish mg combined with some form of caffeine. No problemo...

Yh im hoping it should help. Not expensive as it is anyway :)
 
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