a little about shitloading

glenihan

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this was originally posted by Skip on professionalmuscle .. hope no one minds i'm posting this here, but its a good read and i used a shitload for carbing up with fantastic results

Well, there is so much to the shitload that I can't possibly cover it all in this post but I will touch on some of the basics.

The shitload will only work if you are lean enough, have your water correct, and are glycogen depleted enough. Of course, all three should be done whether you shitload or not but it gets funny when someone who wasn't lean enough blames something like a shitload for making them look fat. lol I won't mention any names but I should.

I have pretty much narrowed the shitload time down to 2 main options for 95% of guys who will use it successfully.

Friday night start shitloading.

Saturday morning start shitloading.

I use it starting friday night. This allows me to force alot of food without worrying about distention the next day. I recommend this for anyone that has a propensity towards distention - similar to the rounding out of the abs like Ronnie. Alot of food does this to me. When coming into the morning of the show, you have to be somewhat careful in your portion sizes. This is easier said than done simply because your body will continue to suck up most anything you put in your gut and continue to fill you out making you look better with every bite - literally. This tends to cause guys to continue to push the food. Also, if you are depleted as you should be, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to start a shitload on friday night, continue into and through Saturday and take in too many carbs. It simply won't happen.

Now, the guys that use the shitload on saturday are usually the ones that can't get the idea of the excess sodium out of there heads and don't want to 'risk it' by taking in large amounts of sodium the night before the show. If this is the case, do your homework. Sodium, in the absence of carbs and water (cause you are water restricted well before friday night), will NOT cause you to hold water subq. The carbs themselves are going to be scavenging for the last little bit of water in the body that it can get ahold of to combine with the carbs to form glycogen. Where you think that water is coming from? You guessed it - subq. So, you have restricted your water, added a ton of carbs that will suck water also, and are using atleast a mild diuretic. How the hell is sodium going to cause you to all of a sudden hold water subq? The sodium will not have enough time to shift the water before you hit the stage. Hell, most all of guys I have done this with have not started to smooth out until WELL into Sunday and most report still looking unbelievable on Sunday night. Remember, the excess sodium is also going to cause you be vascular as hell. The increase in blood pressure alone will cause this. I take 1/2 tsp. salt with a small amount of grape juice before hitting the stage. I have not used anything yet that can mimic the affect of vascularity as this compo does. Now, I do have 3 bottles of AMP this year but that is a different thread.hehe

Water restriction should remain the same as it would if you were carbing with a traditional carb load. The timing should stay the same. Same with diuretic use. I can't think of anything that is any different off of the top of my low carb head. Even depletion workouts are the same. Yes, it is a bit harder to deplete and end the workouts on Wednesday and not load until friday night but, hey, we all pay a price. I increase dietary fats to keep the bodyweight from plummeting and it has worked very well.

You MUST do a trial run at about 4 or 5 weeks out to see how your body reacts. Of course, you need to be lean enough to get a good read. I have used the shitload trial run as early as 1 or 2 weeks out with great success. Make sure you are plenty depleted, though, or the affect will not be as pronounced.

Also, a traditional carb load is founded on filling out the muscles close to their 'fullness' or filling them up quite a bit. The shitload does not go along these same lines. With the shitload, you are looking for a very fast increase in the size of the muscle to make it tight enough to push hard against the skin and increase vascularity. You don't have to be 90% full to hit the stage looking your best. In fact, if you are that full you will lose separation anyway - sort of 'filling in the cracks' if you will. I want my
cracks. lol

Slin isn't any different either. This is where my argument about slin and fat intake began. I used slin every time I shitloaded before my last show. I loaded 5 times and used slin every time. I did nothing but get leaner. There was no extra fat storage or anything even remotely close to this. I loaded and recommend loading on things like Krispy Kremes, heavy fat and sugar type cookies like Mrs. Fields, rice krispy treats, caramel brownies (to die for), etc.. I am a bit leary of only one thing and that is dairy. I can't say it is because I used dairy products and they didn't work but milk based products would only seem to get in the way of your uptake of nutrients in the intestines, anyway. I don't think they are a good idea but that is just me being cautious. They may work well - I just don't know.

A few last notes:
If you already have a prep that dials you in perfectly, you would be a fool to change it. This type of prep is for the other 95% of guys that look twice as big and twice as hard on Sunday morning. I wonder why they look better on sunday morning after all of that pizza (a bit of sodium, ya think?), burgers, cheesecake and ice cream? Or why Chad Nichols' boys walk around with peanut butter cups, jelly beans and peanut butter backstage? Or why Michael Ergas (with Chad when he won and got his pro card last year) was reportedly seen at a Wendy's eating cheeseburgers like they were M & Ms?


Skip's out......
 
Lando33

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very interesting take. I did a little reading up. Seems like a good idea within reason. I don't think it's a good idea to look at it like a free-for-all and go overboard with everything.

At my last show, I did a traditional carb up along with rice cakes and natty pb backstage and during the time betweem pre-judging in the AM and the evening show in the PM. It wasn't until I caught a glimpse in the mirrow at about 2 am after ordering 1/2 the menu at TGI Friday's postcontest that I noticed explosive veins and incredible dryness. Too bad I was about 10 shots and 6 pint glasses in the bag at that point.

Still on the fence about this thing I'd guess, but still want to hear more.
 

houseman

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This only works if you are phenominally lean. If you aren't as lean as you should be, it won't help you much.

Good read, Glen.
 

glenihan

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houseman is right you need to be REALLY lean and REALLY dry .. but you should be REALLY lean and dry the night before a show anyway

and lando .. its not a free for all per se .. but it kind of is

i consumed a pizza, tons of brownies, cookies, donuts, pie, and chips the night before and pancakes, toast, egg mcmuffins, etc. the morning of and i just kept filling out it was remarkable

but you need to be really lean, dry, and properly depleted
 

houseman

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OH MAN OH MAN! I can't wait!!!!!!
Oh, yes you can.

its not easy to eat like that and NOT drink liquids. Small sips here or there but that's about it.

Its not as easy or fun aspeople would think when you can't drink
 

Nullifidian

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Most foods are well over 50% water.

In days of yore when I was a fatass, I can tell you that there were a number of days I didn't drink so much as a sip of anything for several days in a row. Got all my water from food.

Of course, I wasn't depleted. That makes all the difference. Just saying though that I'll definitely enjoy it. A lot. I love food, especially tasty, fattening food.
 

glenihan

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having done it null .. its a TON of fun for the first half an hour or so .. then honestly its PURE hell .. not drinking really makes it pure misery .. feel free to pm with any questions .. i'm not expert but i can share my experience
 

houseman

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having done it null .. its a TON of fun for the first half an hour or so .. then honestly its PURE hell .. not drinking really makes it pure misery .. feel free to pm with any questions .. i'm not expert but i can share my experience
Thank you :)
 
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Re: a little about ****loading

Personally I don't look that good with a sh1t load. I do much better with just a carb load. BTW Skip has trained me before so I am not saying anything against him or his ideas.

I am curious if anyone has tried contest prep withOUT doing a water depletion as Layne at BB.com talks about.

EDIT this is by Layne at BB.com

Many competitors practice the technique of water depletion. Water depletion consists of reducing one's liquid intake to practically nothing as they approach the contest. Not only is this practice very dangerous, it is also ineffective. Muscle tissue consists of 70% water.

If one restricts water intake drastically, they will lose muscle fullness and appear flat onstage. In addition, reducing water will increase the likelihood of muscle cramps while onstage (this happens quite frequently and is very embarrassing).

Some competitors believe water is what causes them to appear smooth. This is not the case. Water retention intracellularly (inside the cell) will cause one appear hard and full. Subcutaneous (under the skin) water retention however, causes one look smooth.

When the body senses a drastic restriction in water intake it will release anti-diuretic hormones that cause subcutaneous water retention. This makes physiological sense: the body senses it is not getting enough water and releases hormones that cause water retention to prevent dehydration. The result is muscles that appear look flat; from lack of water intracellularly, and soft; from retaining water subcutaneously.

The competitor's goal is to maximize intracellular and minimize subcutaneous water retention. Part of this can be accomplished via proper carbohydrate depletion and repletion as discussed earlier. However, to maximize the impact on the body's water distribution will require manipulation of sodium intake.

Most techniques are merely theory-based as there is little scientific literature about how to properly sodium load and deplete to maximize intracellular and minimize subcutaneous water retention. Since there is little "hard" data to rely on, I will resort to stating "trust me" and list a sodium loading/depletion routine that I utilized with great success.


15 Days Out - Begin sodium loading. Salt or season all meals and eat foods high in sodium.

10 Days Out - Reduce sodium to 4000 mg per day.

5 Days Out - Reduce sodium to 2000 mg per day.

2 Days Out - Reduce sodium to 1500 mg.

1 Day Out - Reduce sodium to 1000 mg.

Show Day - covered below.
By increasing sodium intake during the "sodium loading" phase, your cells' sodium pumps will become up-regulated (working harder than normal) and pump Na+ ions out of the cell to maintain the equilibrium ion gradient.

When you begin to drop sodium intake, your cells' pumps will still be up-regulated, but since sodium intake is low it will pump out more sodium than normal and with it, a lot of water will be excreted (water levels fluctuate in relation to ion concentrations). During this time (5 days out up until the day before the show) you will begin to flatten out and look smaller than normal due to less water being held. Don't fret, as the final days of this program will fill you out nicely.


View All Water Articles Here.

Show Day


Begin your carb repletion (or continue if you are a mesomorph or ectomorph) at least 6 hours before pre-judging. Ingest 30-60 grams of carbs (only choose those foods listed as acceptable to eat on Friday) every 2 hours. People with faster metabolisms should consume more carbohydrates during their load and people with slower metabolisms should consume fewer carbohydrates during their load.

Only take bites of protein (i.e. bites of chicken breasts) every few hours. Drink enough water to quench your thirst, nothing more and nothing less. Two hours before pre-judging ingest a high carb/fat/sodium meal containing approximately 75-90 g of carbs, 20-30 g fat, and 1000-2000 mg sodium. This meal will really help you to fill out.




Click To Enlarge.

By sodium depleting for several days prior you will have increased your body's ability to store more sodium. Since your cells have been deprived of sodium for several days they will be more likely to retain sodium (and the water that goes along with it) intracellularly and store less of it subcutaneously. Couple this with the increase glycogen retention inside the cell and you will fill out.

There is some anecdotal evidence among competitive bodybuilders that a high fat meal may increase vascularity for a short time after the meal. I can say that I have personally experienced this effect myself, hence why I recommend some fat at this meal.

About 30 minutes prior to stepping onstage you should begin sipping a small sugar drink such as Gatorade. This will continue to hydrate the body and also will ensure that you have plenty of energy for the intense posing you will soon perform. After pre-judging, continue eating 30-60 g of carbs every 2 hours until the night show. After the night show have fun at the post contest pig-out!


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rysigpi

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Re: a little about ****loading

If one restricts water intake drastically, they will lose muscle fullness and appear flat onstage. In addition, reducing water will increase the likelihood of muscle cramps while onstage (this happens quite frequently and is very embarrassing).
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That does make sense in a way. I guess it may work different for each individual like most things. ummmmmmmmm
 

Jmazz19

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Re: a little about ****loading

This is deffenitly something you want to experment with before using it for a show. A friend of mine uses this method with great success. Personally I havent tried it yet.
 

goldlifter

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Re: a little about ****loading

This is deffenitly something you want to experment with before using it for a show. A friend of mine uses this method with great success. Personally I havent tried it yet.
i learned to fine tune it in prep for photo shoots.....i HIGHLY recommend practicing it several times in advance. come contest time, you'll be right where you want and have the peace of mind to go with it
 

Nullifidian

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Re: a little about ****loading

I was doing some more reading. There are a number of successful competitors, both pro and amateur who do not use any crazy loading techniques.

Dorian Yates was contest ready 2 weeks out and just simply coasted in.

A really good amateur who is helping me on Outlaw said he has never depleted and never will. Just having a low carb intake (100g or lower) in the weeks leading up to a contest will make just about anyone depleted he said. He starts carb loading about 5 days out. He continues to drink tons and tons of water straight through and only stops drinking the night before the contest.


Honestly, it sounds like most of these techniques are so different for each person it would be far too easy to screw things up. You are more likely to succeed if you just stick to your guns and diet mostly normally leading up to the show. Taking some herbal diurretics like Dandelion and Celery Seed extract, and eat plenty of asparagus and broccoli and you'll drop all your water weight steadily as you go. Maintain a consistant 2+ gallon of water intake per day as well.

Carb it up starting like 5 days out. This guy absolutely positively insists you will not spill as long as you've been drinking consistsnatly high amounts of water and your diet has been ultra clean. He said it takes almost a week for you to fully replenish glycogen when you're depleted. While replenishing, with such a high water intake, the only water you retain will be water used to form glycogen. Your body has no reason nor need to store it subcutaneously at that point. Unless you are taking something which specifically causes subcutaneous water retention, you simply aren't going to retain the water under your skin and so you'll simply get a drier and drier look each day as you get closer to comp. You'll get fuller and fuller.

As for ****loading, he said you shouldn't overdo it or you'll end up with distension when you hit the stage. A little extra fat and sugar and some increased sodium is fine to bring out vascularity and to get that little bit extra fill for your muscle bellies.


So, I think that's what I'm going to be doing. No full out carb depletion. I'll cut carbs down to like 75-80g per day starting week 3. I'm already eating tons of asparagus. As soon as my Dandelion root arrives I'll add that. During the final week though, I'm not going to change anything drastically. I'll remain at 75-80g of carbs per day until Wednesday I'm thinking. On Wednesday I'll increase the carbs, Thursday they'll go higher, Friday higher, and Friday night I eat some cheescake and maybe some pizza. As for water intake, it remains at 2-3 gallons during the whole final week. Friday I'll drink 1 gallon before 4PM and then follow that up with sips. At 9PM, I stop drinking fluids entirely. Saturday morning I drink nothing, maybe eat some more pizza or something.


Anyway, this is still tentative, but honestly going with crazy sodium loading techniques or carb depletion techniques, etc. with such rigid timeframes won't wash in my opinion. People are just too different for such rigid plans to work well for everyone, and when timing is so critical as it is with these plans, if it does work, it means you end up hosing yourself completely and either wind up going onstage looking like flatter than roadkill, or rolling onstage looking like someone stuck a firehose up your ass and put it on full blast.
 

glenihan

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Re: a little about ****loading

i understand your point null but if you practice the ****load i would bet dollars to donuts you'll look better if you do that contest day then if you don't
 

houseman

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Re: a little about ****loading

People have done depletion and loads for YEARS now very successfully. It works. Period. It makes your body a sponge which is what you want.

Secondly, every competitor I have seen the next day following a show (and pigging out after the night show) looked 100 times better than they did on stage.
 

Nullifidian

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Re: a little about ****loading

People have done depletion and loads for YEARS now very successfully. It works. Period. It makes your body a sponge which is what you want.

Secondly, every competitor I have seen the next day following a show (and pigging out after the night show) looked 100 times better than they did on stage.
That's becuase they wait till the last minute to carb load. Many don't load their carbs until they begin ****loading.

I'll begin my carbloading on Wednesday before the comp. I'll ****load the night before and a little that morning, but I'm not going to go nuts about it. I'll eat some pizza, brownies, cheesecake, etc. but I'm not going to stuff my face as hard as possible for 4 hours straight.
 

glenihan

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Re: a little about ****loading

exactly houseman which gives creedence to the concept behind ****loading
 

houseman

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Re: a little about ****loading

That's becuase they wait till the last minute to carb load. Many don't load their carbs until they begin ****loading.
No. They did their depletion workouts on Monday,Tuesday and Wednesday morning.

12pm on Wednesday they started their carb up til Friday around 6pm when they dropped water completely and started their ****loading.

Either way, I am willing ot bet my life you will look 100 times better the day after than you did the day you went on stage. Most do. That's just how it goes.
 

Nullifidian

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Re: a little about ****loading

No. They did their depletion workouts on Monday,Tuesday and Wednesday morning.

12pm on Wednesday they started their carb up til Friday around 6pm when they dropped water completely and started their ****loading.

Either way, I am willing ot bet my life you will look 100 times better the day after than you did the day you went on stage. Most do. That's just how it goes.
How do depletion workouts work?

I have 3 weeks until my comp, I need to have all this scheduled and down.
 

glenihan

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Re: a little about ****loading

depletion workouts are basically "chick" workouts lol .. just hit each muscle group with 1 or 2 exercises with light weight and a ton of reps .. the goal is just to burn up any glycogen that's left over .. since you'll be on super low if not zero carbs they won't replenish .. i did two depletion workouts monday and wednesday .. didn't touch legs from 10 days out though .. don't want to blur any separations
 
CROWLER

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Re: a little about ****loading

People have done depletion and loads for YEARS now very successfully. It works. Period. It makes your body a sponge which is what you want.

Secondly, every competitor I have seen the next day following a show (and pigging out after the night show) looked 100 times better than they did on stage.


That is because they cut their water and shouldn't have ;)

Just trying to stimulate thought.


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CROWLER

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Re: a little about ****loading

Null,

Have you seen the thread at PM about not depleting as usual?


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Nullifidian

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Re: a little about ****loading

at PM? Was ist das?
 

glenihan

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Re: a little about ****loading

crowler, that's a fairly confusing thread that really doesn't say too much IMO

bigheinz makes a decent point but doesn't really explain anything and TP4U doesn't offer much other than he's f-ed up a few times lol

PM is professionalmuscle.com
 

houseman

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Re: a little about ****loading

depletion workouts are basically "chick" workouts lol .. just hit each muscle group with 1 or 2 exercises with light weight and a ton of reps .. the goal is just to burn up any glycogen that's left over .. since you'll be on super low if not zero carbs they won't replenish .. i did two depletion workouts monday and wednesday .. didn't touch legs from 10 days out though .. don't want to blur any separations
LOL chick workouts. haha.

By the last depletion workout and on no-low carbs, it can be some of the most mentally demanding training going.
 

houseman

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Re: a little about ****loading

That is because they cut their water and shouldn't have ;)

Just trying to stimulate thought.


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One should always cut water.

You drink high high (some go upwards of 10-12 liters for several weeks) levels of water right up til the dayof the show. At noon you drop it.

It's pretty simple.

I not quite sure what you mean though.
 
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LOL chick workouts. haha.

By the last depletion workout and on no-low carbs, it can be some of the most mentally demanding training going.

lol I know what you mean. Suddenly figuring how much weight you have with the 45lb bar, a 45lb a 10lb plate and a 5 lb plate on each side become higher level calculas. :)


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Re: a little about ****loading

One should always cut water.

You drink high high (some go upwards of 10-12 liters for several weeks) levels of water right up til the dayof the show. At noon you drop it.

It's pretty simple.

I not quite sure what you mean though.
Different strokes for diff folks.

I am not sure what you mean by simple as many pros have a hard time figuring when or if to cut water. You will see guys who look GREAT on stage who cut as early as Thurs AM and others who look GREAT on stange and never cut their water. Also you can see guys who look flat who cut early, cut late and never cut.

Each person has to figure out what works best for them just like most things in this game.




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houseman

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Re: a little about ****loading

Different strokes for diff folks.

I am not sure what you mean by simple as many pros have a hard time figuring when or if to cut water. You will see guys who look GREAT on stage who cut as early as Thurs AM and others who look GREAT on stange and never cut their water. Also you can see guys who look flat who cut early, cut late and never cut.

Each person has to figure out what works best for them just like most things in this game.




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The timing is important but in general, if you do a trial run 6 weeks out (should be lean enough at this time to see how it works) you will know better what your body responds to.

In general though I think its about one of the more easier aspects to the competition. Cutting water that is as long as you do your trial run before hand.

And, it don't matter a whole lot if you aren't lean enough regardless.
 
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Re: a little about ****loading

The timing is important but in general, if you do a trial run 6 weeks out (should be lean enough at this time to see how it works) you will know better what your body responds to.

In general though I think its about one of the more easier aspects to the competition. Cutting water that is as long as you do your trial run before hand.

And, it don't matter a whole lot if you aren't lean enough regardless.

Agreed, it isn't a set thing for all people to get their best results droping water the AM of the show.

Practice ahead of time is what is needed.


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Re: a little about ****loading

glenihan

hey bro it sounds like your very knowledgeable reguarding pre contest prep and i would really like to ask you a few questions. I was unable to pm you do you have e-mail?
 

glenihan

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Re: a little about ****loading

well you are more than welcome to email me, but i'm certainly no guru .. i can offer you some advice but if you're really serious about contest the best bet is always to hire someone knowledgable
 
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savagebeast

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thanks bro i got it!
 

IslandSupplmnts

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Re: a little about ****loading

Nothing has ever worked remotely close to the effects of ***Loading, through all of my shows. It was a charm. (Pop-Tarts, Cheesecake, and Pizza were my foods at the Mike Francois Classic this past weekend) I began the sequence at 4am, eating every hour on the hour, my first meal was claen, 60z chicken with 7 rice-cakes... and then it was taste-bud heaven from then on out.

Great article, and I'm glad this subject was brought to light, and into a fourm for consideration.
 

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