5-AT, 7-OH, 7-Keto, 11-oxo, and other anti cortisol steroids...

[Old Witch]

And their usage during pct and between cycles.

Personally I’m for it, I think they pretty much all work, albeit differently. 7-keto seemingly less anti cort and more thermogenic, 11-oxo seemingly actually fairly anabolic in nature.

Before you scream at me about using potentially suppressive substances in pct I’d like to add that there is plenty of anecdotal evidence (and blood work) out there showing that using these during pct does not seem to affect the restart of testicular function.

Discuss! Thoughts? Experience? Unwavering hatred?

 

[mase1]

In for info.

 

[Hyde]

I am definitely going to be using 7-keto orally this PCT, as well as 25-50mg/day of Proviron for the first time. Sounds like everyone who used proviron under 100mg in PCT recovers fine but feels better for it.

I have toyed with the idea of 5mg Ostarine daily but I think I will give it 4-6 weeks off first to really let my HPTA fire back up.

 

[_Endure_]

Anyone ran 11-oxo? Dont hear much about it.

 

[mase1]

Good stuff on a cut for me

 

[solidsnake]

Didn’t really do much for me that’s why I’m selling 3 unopened ol super 11

 

[Anabaholic]

Anyone ran 11-oxo? Dont hear much about it.

I love 11 oxo and 11 keto, in fact I'm running both right now. In typically recommended doses you barely noticeable anything, but what I do to take full advantage of lower cortisol is to push reps and cardio to the point where cortisol would normally hinder your progress. At higher doses, I've heard it's fairly anabolic but I haven't ran it high myself.

 

[Mzakif]

In for Info

 

[Mzakif]

I am definitely going to be using 7-keto orally this PCT, as well as 25-50mg/day of Proviron for the first time. Sounds like everyone who used proviron under 100mg in PCT recovers fine but feels better for it.

I have toyed with the idea of 5mg Ostarine daily but I think I will give it 4-6 weeks off first to really let my HPTA fire back up.

Are going to run proviron with clomid or nolva?
I didn’t get it what would proviron add to your pct ?

 

[Old Witch]

Are going to run proviron with clomid or nolva?
I didn’t get it what would proviron add to your pct ?

It lowers shbg.

 

[Old Witch]

Personally I’d rather do an old school pct with ATD if I wanted a feel good pct.

 

[Hyde]

Are going to run proviron with clomid or nolva?
I didn’t get it what would proviron add to your pct ?

Both. Why people play this whole “choose a side game” is beyond me. They’re like $25 from any RC supplier. The literature says Nolva probably works on the HPTA faster, but anecdotally Clomid works way faster getting my nuts back to full size. And Nolva prevents rebound gyno while my estro sorts out. Like them both at the right doses. If you can only take one compound for some weird arbitrary reason, toremifene is your best bet.

Proviron, for my purposes, is to boost libido. Clomid at even 25mg is great for my test levels but libido is always lacking for me personally in PCT. Just an experiment here. But I really respond well to DHT compounds personally.

 

[Steeleydan]

Im very interested in whether 11 oxo would have benefits/be mild enough to take while cruising, as well as proviron. (Not necessarily at the same time, but whether or not they would be decent candidates)

 

[AndroRage]

Personally I’d rather do an old school pct with ATD if I wanted a feel good pct.

I never got round to ATD, does it help significantly in pct? Or maybe I missed the sarcasm.

Genuinely interested. Thanks

 

[Old Witch]

I never got round to ATD, does it help significantly in pct? Or maybe I missed the sarcasm.

Genuinely interested. Thanks

It does. It is an AI that also lowers SHBG, which makes a world of difference. Similar to taking proviron in pct, which can also be done. I would argue less chance of continued suppression than with proviron.

 

[Old Witch]

But, where I’m from, back 12 years ago and more, guys were taking dhea, proviron, and ATD all at once during pct and then cruising on the proviron and dhea. I certainly did that. A whole bunch of times.

 

[Hyde]

But, where I’m from, back 12 years ago and more, guys were taking dhea, proviron, and ATD all at once during pct and then cruising on the proviron and dhea. I certainly did that. A whole bunch of times.

I kind of half-ass did that this go around unwittingly w low doses of proviron, DHEA, & preg.

Proviron is a bit too expensive for me to justify staying on it about half the year...but it’s good enough that I can truly see the appeal. Took my second to last dose of 25mg about an hour ago. Mourning its loss already

I did hop on 12mg boron/day in split doses earlier this week, but we know that’s not going to be the same.

One time I bought a big bag of bulk supplements Longjack and just ate a whole teaspoon raw 5 days out of the week. Pretty cost effective and really gave you some pep.

 

[Old Witch]

I kind of half-ass did that this go around unwittingly w low doses of proviron, DHEA, & preg.

Proviron is a bit too expensive for me to justify staying on it about half the year...but it’s good enough that I can truly see the appeal. Took my second to last dose of 25mg about an hour ago. Mourning its loss already

I did hop on 12mg boron/day in split doses earlier this week, but we know that’s not going to be the same.

One time I bought a big bag of bulk supplements Longjack and just ate a whole teaspoon raw 5 days out of the week. Pretty cost effective and really gave you some pep.

I couldn’t imagine eating that much longjack. I hate longjack. Hahahaha

 

[Hyde]

I couldn’t imagine eating that much longjack. I hate longjack. Hahahaha

Really? I love it! But nobody puts really effective doses in their capped products. You need at least 3-400mg of the quality stuff over a day to remotely “feel” it. I mean it may be lowering SHBG, but I’m talking about feeling libido & energy/drive. You would spend a fortune.

I figured I’d buy a big bag of bulk cheap powder and eat it straight - even if the quality is far lower, the sheer amount entering your system gets the job done better for a fraction of the cost.

It’s going to taste like you’re eating burnt fireworks lol - not for the faint of heart

 

[thorsdad31]

I ran 11 oxo at a high dose stacked with superdrol in 2011 shut me down hard but leaned out like crazy

 

[niklasericson]

11 Keto/Oxo is great on cut or recomp.
The midsection fat melting away like butter in the sun.

 

[AndroRage]

I ran 11 oxo at a high dose stacked with superdrol in 2011 shut me down hard but leaned out like crazy

11 Keto/Oxo is great on cut or recomp.
The midsection fat melting away like butter in the sun.

How much 11oxo you guys refined from experience. Was it oral to?

Thanks

 

[AndroRage]

It does. It is an AI that also lowers SHBG, which makes a world of difference. Similar to taking proviron in pct, which can also be done. I would argue less chance of continued suppression than with proviron.

Ah right, whilst your “standard” AI I’m guessing have no impact on SHGB?

What is an effective ATD dosage? Is it still available?

 

[Old Witch]

Ah right, whilst your “standard” AI I’m guessing have no impact on SHGB?

What is an effective ATD dosage? Is it still available?

It’s still available from the UK. I’d start with 30mg EOD and see if you need more or less.

 

[AndroRage]

Nice to see 11 Keto and 11 oxo getting some love. I haven’t used either but really want to throw one if them in now. I just always remember hearing the oral bioavailability of 11 oxo being terrible thus ALOT was needed

 

[AndroRage]

I love 11 oxo and 11 keto, in fact I'm running both right now. In typically recommended doses you barely noticeable anything, but what I do to take full advantage of lower cortisol is to push reps and cardio to the point where cortisol would normally hinder your progress. At higher doses, I've heard it's fairly anabolic but I haven't ran it high myself.

How you running it?

 

[Old Witch]

Oh hey someone once asked why I think 11oxo is more powerful than 11kt itself at equipotent dosages.

Adrenosterone (11OXO) is an active hormone which has several active metabolites. 11KT is one of those metabolites, which in turn has its own INACTIVE metabolites.

So, you’re getting more effects from 11oxo overall than just what 11KT brings to the party.

 

[niklasericson]

How much 11oxo you guys refined from experience. Was it oral to?

Thanks

Oral yes.
400-500mg/ed 6-8 weeks.

 

[niklasericson]

Oh hey someone once asked why I think 11oxo is more powerful than 11kt itself at equipotent dosages.

Adrenosterone (11OXO) is an active hormone which has several active metabolites. 11KT is one of those metabolites, which in turn has its own INACTIVE metabolites.

So, you’re getting more effects from 11oxo overall than just what 11KT brings to the party.

I used to run Dragon Nutritions 11 Keto back in the days, great stuff.
BC took over the production but they don't stock it any longer.
BC has German Pharma but it's only 50mg caps.
PMS has Brawn but I found it ineffective.
PN has Fusions 11 Oxo.
Do you know any more brands or shops in the UK that sells 11 oxo today?

 

[Old Witch]

I used to run Dragon Nutritions 11 Keto back in the days, great stuff.
BC took over the production but they don't stock it any longer.
BC has German Pharma but it's only 50mg caps.
PMS has Brawn but I found it ineffective.
PN has Fusions 11 Oxo.
Do you know any more brands or shops in the UK that sells 11 oxo today?

If any of them have imported Medfit RX 11oxo syrup from the US you would be very lucky.

 

[AndroRage]

Oral yes.
400-500mg/ed 6-8 weeks.

I was guna be using Brawn 11 Andro.

Have you tried Iron Legion XIKT mate? I could run that at 2ml per day (2 bottles for a month)

It’s thats or 11 Andro at 800mg per day

 

[bruno.camilo]

7-keto under 400mg, i thought it was completely useless, at 400mg and up u can even lean bulk on it. But gets expensive so,

Dhea for me always thought it is useless, at any dose

The others i have no experience.

 

[mase1]

Nutra innovations oral 11kt was good to me. Their website is up, not sure if still running.

 

[Hyde]

Nutra innovations oral 11kt was good to me. Their website is up, not sure if still running.

What dose and duration did you use it?

 

[AndroRage]

It’s still available from the UK. I’d start with 30mg EOD and see if you need more or less.

How does it compare to Formestane?

 

[Old Witch]

How does it compare to Formestane?

It’s stronger mg for mg IMO by a lot.

 

[lukinosnake]

What would you choose between doing 1.5ml XI KT (equal to 125mg 11-keto) and 600mg 11-OXO brawn for 6 weeks?
In both cases I am planning to have 7 keto at 300mg along with it.

 

[AndroRage]

It’s stronger mg for mg IMO by a lot.

Thanks. Think it’s benefical on cycle of AAS due to the SHGB lowering affect?

Also what is 5-AT and 7-OH??

 

[jrock645]

Thanks. Think it’s benefical on cycle of AAS due to the SHGB lowering affect?

Also what is 5-AT and 7-OH??

I believe 5AT is what was in lean extreme. I remember 7OH but can’t recall what it was in.

 

[Old Witch]

5 at and bAET might be the same thing, or might not. Androstenetrione.

7oH is the hydroxy counterpart to 7keto.

Both are cortisol inhibiting.

 

[AndroRage]

5 at and bAET might be the same thing, or might not. Androstenetrione.

7oH is the hydroxy counterpart to 7keto.

Both are cortisol inhibiting.

Tell me more about 5-AT, what would be considered an effective dose or optimal?

Is 7oH the main active in Reduce XT?

 

[nostrum420]

I'll just leave this here.

Kronos - Final Clearance

Kronos contains a concentrated metabolite that is produced naturally by the human body and is found in several types of seafood. This topical serum helps *promote the appearance of lean muscle while helping to *reduce the appearance of subcutaneous fat and excess water. FOR EXTERNAL USE ONLY...

www.apex-alchemy.com

 

[BigGame84]

Has anybody tried Enhanced Formulations 11-Lean?

 

[Anabaholic]

Has anybody tried Enhanced Formulations 11-Lean?

I have and it went great. I ran it 300/day and got results about a half step above 7keto, I would say. Some people run it at 900mg+/day for it's conversion to 11kt but for the cost vs getting 11kt, it usually makes more sense to just use 11kt.

 

[Alchemist11]

I'll just leave this here.

Kronos - Final Clearance

Kronos contains a concentrated metabolite that is produced naturally by the human body and is found in several types of seafood. This topical serum helps *promote the appearance of lean muscle while helping to *reduce the appearance of subcutaneous fat and excess water. FOR EXTERNAL USE ONLY...

www.apex-alchemy.com

How much of it in one serving?

 

[AndroRage]

Has anybody tried Enhanced Formulations 11-Lean?

I seen you comment in a thread a few months back about 5-AT, did you run it? I notice Core have a solo product as does Brawn Nutrition (UK brand). It use to be in Core hard but was removed a few years back

 

[BigGame84]

I seen you comment in a thread a few months back about 5-AT, did you run it? I notice Core have a solo product as does Brawn Nutrition (UK brand). It use to be in Core hard but was removed a few years back

I literally just started the Core 5-AT a couple days ago. I have two bottles, so running 4 caps a day (100mg). 2 in AM, 2 in PM. Too early to tell anything yet.

 

[nostrum420]

How much of it in one serving?

It's 50mg/ml, 5 sprays ~ 1ml.

 

[UNX]

Has 7-keto proved its efficacy lowering cortisol in healthy people?

 

[Tsteele60]

In for sources of effectively dosed/priced 11-oxo products since Medfit left the scene