5-10mg Dbol morning micro dose plus clomid in evening? No shutdown?

[jorelldye]

I am aware of many different cycling philosophies, but I'm curious about unconventional options that could potentially avoid testosterone production shutdown altogether.

Consider that DBOL has a short enough half life that at 5mg it will be eliminated by the time your body begins nightly testosterone production. And clomid's hpta stimulation might not be thwarted by DBOL in this case when taken in the evening.

Taking 5mg DBOL in the morning and 50mg clomid in the evening, could one potentially get a mild anabolic boost this way in short cycles without shutting down? If so, could even 10mg DBOL be used? Or would shutdown happen regardless?

The reason I ask is that I've had a difficult recovery after just one 4 month cycle on injected steroids, and I have a feeling that starting a second cycle after an 8 month break is a bad idea if I want to keep normal hpta health. However, I still want some performance enhancement, and I personally hyper-react to DBOL.

Thoughts?

 

[MrKleen73]

Old school BB'ers ran legit doses like that the same way. However no SERM and according to them no shutdown. I am imagine there was some suppression but basically the body checks androgen levels in the evening to decide how much testosterone needs created. So with that short half life they were able to hit 20-30mg first thing in the morning and have androgen levels pretty much back to baseline in the evening allowing the body to send its natural signal to produce testosterone. I would assume adding in clomid would add even more insurance.

So yes I think your idea could work but not sure there would be much if any noticeable benefit at 5mg a day.

Also you said you had trouble recovering, how long did it take you to get back to decent levels on your bloodwork? If you haven't actually had the bloodwork you might not really have had a big issue with recovering so much as a case of the off the gear blues. It isn't easy on the psyche to come back down to normal after being superhuman for 4 months. You forget what normal feels like and then are really disappointed with it when you go back. Unfortunately normal will never feel the same again. It would be like having Gordon Ramsey as a personal chef for months then being told you have to eat school cafeteria food for the rest of your life.
I know a lot of people who go through it on the first cycle and can't wait to jump back on for that reason. So kudos to you for waiting this lo0ng already.

Another thing to keep in mind, even something like this seemingly safe experiment could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

 

[barische]

A better protocol may be dbol + low doze AI w/ enclomiphene. Not sure of dbol’s shbg effect. Clomid tends to increase shbg a considerable amount.

 

[jorelldye]

I haven't gotten the blood work, so you may be right. I'm obviously making testosterone. I hit clomid hard at 100-150mg after the cycle and it worked. I'm even able to gain again these days. But my libido isn't the same and my feeling of mental strength is lower than it was at normal before steroids. Maybe that's the post cycle blues after all.

I figure I could do this for 2 weeks and then cut out both the dbol and clomid and see if I'm shut down. It will be obvious if so. Can a 2 week cycle be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

 

[Renew1]

No.

 

[jorelldye]

I'll start with 5mg and titrate up I guess. My response to dbol is stronger than average. I can gain 10 lbs in a month on 15mg/day.

 

[BBiceps]

My head hurts badly from reading this… I don’t even know where to start…

 

[jorelldye]

A better protocol may be dbol + low doze AI w/ enclomiphene. Not sure of dbol’s shbg effect. Clomid tends to increase shbg a considerable amount.

Is enclomiphene better than clomiphene?

 

[Hyde]

I would consider pulsing it. Say 6-8 weeks of 20mg first thing on training days (and you must lift in the morning), 3-4x a week, with enclomiphene explicitly in the evening. Using exemestane if any estrogen control is necessary. I’d also be using something like Optimize T or Mtest throughout and keep your dietary fat intake sufficient.

It would be less impacting yet if you just ran test suspension immediately preWO.

This is still likely to wear on things over time, as you are sending conflicting signals. There’s no free lunches. This method could help build you up to your natural limits faster, but it won’t sustain beyond that.

 

[jorelldye]

I would consider pulsing it. Say 6-8 weeks of 20mg first thing on training days (and you must lift in the morning), 3-4x a week, with enclomiphene explicitly in the evening. Using exemestane if any estrogen control is necessary. I’d also be using something like Optimize T or Mtest throughout and keep your dietary fat intake sufficient.

It would be less impacting yet if you just ran test suspension immediately preWO.

This is still likely to wear on things over time, as you are sending conflicting signals. There’s no free lunches. This method could help build you up to your natural limits faster, but it won’t sustain beyond that.

Thank you for the wisdom. Can you explain how test suspension would be better? I was under the impression that DBOLs high anabolic ratio and short half life would make it ideal. I see that the test suspension half life is similar..

 

[Mathb33]

Man I understand you’re having difficulties to rebounce from cycle and you’re trying to find a solution but that doesn’t make sense. In life you always pay for what you get. If you’re trying to take something that won’t shut you down then logically it won’t work really well either. 5mg sure probably won’t shut you down a lot, even though it sure will a little... but it won’t work at all at building muscle. Sadly there’s no fairytale that’s going to work and not shut you down. I understand also the half life idea you’re having but then if that worked at avoiding shut down taking 5mg in the morning or 100mg in the morning would be the same at "avoiding shut down"... following your idea. It sucks to hear but if you’re having a hard time coming back from cycle... don’t cycle or go on trt.

 

[Uscaredtogroworwut]

Do it then stop both the same day when you're finished do blood work 3 weeks later and you'll have your answer

 

[jorelldye]

Well I don't think there's harm in the experiment, but you're the second person to recommend a higher dose. If I take 10mg, I'll have 5mg in my system at half life, and 2.5mg at 2HL. I've only got about 10-12 hours to work with, so I figured I'd try low dose. If you read my posts - I have a peculiar over-response to DBOL.

 

[jorelldye]

Do it then stop both the same day when you're finished do blood work 3 weeks later and you'll have your answer

Thank you. Good plan.

Where do you fellows get cheap blood work? Do you use a home kit or book a local lab for a blood draw?

 

[Hyde]

Thank you for the wisdom. Can you explain how test suspension would be better? I was under the impression that DBOLs high anabolic ratio and short half life would make it ideal. I see that the test suspension half life is similar..

Dbol consumed orally is 3-6 hour half-life.

Metandienone - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You could also inject Tren base. The lack of estrogen (suppressive) helps offset any increase in suppression from any PR activation.

Also regarding those, a water-based solution (test suspension) will metabolize and clear faster than oil (tne/test no ester). And different carrier oils will metabolize faster.

Thank you. Good plan.

Where do you fellows get cheap blood work? Do you use a home kit or book a local lab for a blood draw?

Privatemdlabs. Get on their email list and they put out 15% off coupons perpetually every month. This month’s code is probably SEP21 or SEPT21.

 

[jorelldye]

You could also inject Tren base. The lack of estrogen (suppressive) helps offset any increase in suppression from any PR activation.

Thank you. A tren suspension, wow. I'm not sure if that is catalogued with my dealer, but the estrogen vector is an important piece.

What dose of tren base would be optimal to clear out by evening?

 

[Hyde]

Thank you. A tren suspension, wow. I'm not sure if that is catalogued with my dealer, but the estrogen vector is an important piece.

What dose of tren base would be optimal to clear out by evening?

That’s a good question; I don’t know. I have heard it’s supposed to be more common with tested athletes trying to beat doping schedules than test suspension, but now we’re getting into storyland. And those athletes aren’t necessarily worried about their HPTA; the primary focus is gaining an edge by any means necessary.

Any suspension is going to hurt like a bee-otch, every shot, btw.

Dbol is convenient, not faked, feels good, cheap. It just does put off a good bit of estrogens. And so will test suspension. But something like exemestane can be utilized like we mentioned to keep tabs on things.

 

[jorelldye]

Will anastrozole/ Arimidex suffice? I have that already.

 

[Hyde]

Will anastrozole/ Arimidex suffice? I have that already.

Yes. It may or may not have a bit of negative impact on lipids, but it will promote increases in free test still & Dbol is likely to ruin your lipids anyway over time. I don’t know if it’s as effective as Exemestane in raising test, and it must be dosed more consistently to control estrogen while exem is suicidal and can be taken however, but it will certainly work if needed.

You really want to get bloods at the end of this, or 8 weeks in if you are contemplating going longer, to see the real impact it’s having or if you are “getting away with it”.

And again, Clomid doesn’t work. It will keep LH up some but it won’t stop the suppression. Enclomiphene I have seen bloods showing it can work, but that was on low doses of Var or Tbol (dry compounds).

 

[Renew1]

Man I understand you’re having difficulties to rebounce from cycle and you’re trying to find a solution but that doesn’t make sense. In life you always pay for what you get. If you’re trying to take something that won’t shut you down then logically it won’t work really well either. 5mg sure probably won’t shut you down a lot, even though it sure will a little... but it won’t work at all at building muscle. Sadly there’s no fairytale that’s going to work and not shut you down. I understand also the half life idea you’re having but then if that worked at avoiding shut down taking 5mg in the morning or 100mg in the morning would be the same at "avoiding shut down"... following your idea. It sucks to hear but if you’re having a hard time coming back from cycle... don’t cycle or go on trt.

^^ Yep. ^^

 

[Hyde]

^^ Yep. ^^

Yeah to be clear, I don’t think this is optimal at all. I think playing with your hormones if you aren’t keen on TRT at some point is playing with fire.

But IF you are going to do it, these are just some thoughts. And this is assuming you really do blow up on a little Dbol. But then you have to wonder if you wouldn’t really explode on just 300mg testosterone, right?

 

[jorelldye]

Yeah to be clear, I don’t think this is optimal at all. I think playing with your hormones if you aren’t keen on TRT at some point is playing with fire.

But IF you are going to do it, these are just some thoughts. And this is assuming you really do blow up on a little Dbol. But then you have to wonder if you wouldn’t really explode on just 300mg testosterone, right?

300mg? Why are you talking about estered injections? The point of using dbol is to get a decent anabolic response and get to hormonal baseline by nightfall. But you know that. I can use a lower dose than I would have to with another compound. It's only the estrogenicity that puts it into question as the best candidate for this experiment. Thanks for your many helpful posts.

I had a great 4 months with injectables. I'm just trying to preserve HPTA, and I'm willing to be a human Guinea pig for an experiment.

I will run this experiment and report back with blood work.

 

[Mathb33]

300mg? Why are you talking about estered injections? The point of using dbol is to get a decent anabolic response and get to hormonal baseline by nightfall.

Damn you’re really a lost case aren’t you...

 

[Iwilleattuna]

IMO, low dose proviron would probably be a better option. It's not suppressive in low doses and could provide a small boost.

 

[Rad83]

It’s time to be Clark Kent for a while, and there ain’t nothin wrong with that…Deal with it

 

[jorelldye]

Damn you’re really a lost case aren’t you...

I'd appreciate if those with an underdeveloped frontal cortex whose tendency is to mock rather than offer insight with clinical candor would kindly click on to another thread.

 

[jorelldye]

IMO, low dose proviron would probably be a better option. It's not suppressive in low doses and could provide a small boost.

I really appreciate tips like these. I also have an Ecdysterone B-cyclodextrin complex I'm trying as well. And creatine obviously. Anything anabolic and not suppressive.

 

[jorelldye]

It’s time to be Clark Kent for a while, and there ain’t nothin wrong with that…Deal with it

I'm not going to lie. I miss it bro. I wish we could live in the sky our whole lives without bumping into Rich Piana at 46 years old.

It's quite likely that I will blast again, but I'm going to take longer breaks than most, unless I finally give in to pinning for life.

 

[MadStax]

My guess is that you simply didn't wait long enough to start your protocol after the cycle. I'm betting if you did another cycle and waited for the injectables to completely clear before starting PCT, you'll recover just fine.

 

[Mathb33]

I'd appreciate if those with an underdeveloped frontal cortex whose tendency is to mock rather than offer insight with clinical candor would kindly click on to another thread.

Says the guy who’s about to run a 5mg dbol cycle to "avoid shutdown" while "benefiting all the muscle building attributes".

 

[Mathb33]

"Anabolic and not suppressive"

 

[jorelldye]

Says the guy who’s about to run a 5mg dbol cycle to "avoid shutdown" while "benefiting all the muscle building attributes".

I took roughly 8mg yesterday at 8:30am and fell into a fantastic growth coma after my morning workout.

Imagine arguing with someone you've never met about their own body and it's unique reaction to drugs. Look up Dunning-Krueger.

There's a reason that the more intelligent people contributing to this thread have not challenged that point. Yes, I blow up on a low dose of dbol and you don't. I gained 10 lbs in a month using 15mg/ day as part of my first cycle, and I was taking that in the morning and working out in the evening. Life isn't fair.

It took 3-4cc per week of test + EQ to match this. Mind you, my gains with test+ EQ were much more dry (and easy on the liver), and it's still my go-to when I decide to blast again.

 

[semtex]

I think if you look in the forum there was someone that wrote a huge article on pulsing orals a long time ago, also there was a very old thread had to be over 3 years ago that talked about taking clomid during cycles. There was a guy name Spurfy that posted some good info in that thread. You can look him up and your probably find the thread.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

I'm guessing you still need to take supports (heart, liver health etc) even with a low dose cycle right?

 

[Carnivorecon]

300mg? Why are you talking about estered injections? The point of using dbol is to get a decent anabolic response and get to hormonal baseline by nightfall. But you know that. I can use a lower dose than I would have to with another compound. It's only the estrogenicity that puts it into question as the best candidate for this experiment. Thanks for your many helpful posts.

I had a great 4 months with injectables. I'm just trying to preserve HPTA, and I'm willing to be a human Guinea pig for an experiment.

I will run this experiment and report back with blood work.

Please do report your bloodwork, i don't think there are any free rides with aas but I'm not dogmatic about any particular way to use them. I await your updates on results and bloodwork, good luck

 

[jorelldye]

I think if you look in the forum there was someone that wrote a huge article on pulsing orals a long time ago, also there was a very old thread had to be over 3 years ago that talked about taking clomid during cycles. There was a guy name Spurfy that posted some good info in that thread. You can look him up and your probably find the thread.

Wow thank you for that reference. That's fantastic. I'll search for that thread.

 

[jorelldye]

I'm guessing you still need to take supports (heart, liver health etc) even with a low dose cycle right?

Possibly. I haven't read up on the cases decades ago when people were put on low trt doses of dianabol for extended periods of time. Obviously it's not prescribed that way today.

 

[jorelldye]

Please do report your bloodwork, i don't think there are any free rides with aas but I'm not dogmatic about any particular way to use them. I await your updates on results and bloodwork, good luck

Thank you. I've got the blood work paid for. I'm just waiting for the requisition papers.

 

[BBiceps]

This is nothing new, ppl have tried to cheat suppression for years and the reason you don’t find blood work of ppl that have tried this is because they don’t want to post their disappointment. I did Anavar with Clomid and my test was 43 (normally around 500 at that time) in the 7th week.

You say you’re some hyper responder to Dbol (great I guess) but just because you get benefits from a small dose of a drug it doesn’t mean that it effect your body less. Drug benefits = Test suppression.

 

[Hyde]

300mg? Why are you talking about estered injections? The point of using dbol is to get a decent anabolic response and get to hormonal baseline by nightfall. But you know that. I can use a lower dose than I would have to with another compound. It's only the estrogenicity that puts it into question as the best candidate for this experiment. Thanks for your many helpful posts.

I had a great 4 months with injectables. I'm just trying to preserve HPTA, and I'm willing to be a human Guinea pig for an experiment.

I will run this experiment and report back with blood work.

I was talking about weighing the benefits of just committing to cycling properly vs attempting lower yield fuckery for unknown rewards.

I wasn’t really aware of your cycle experience when I said this, but you mentioning running about a gram of test/eq in a later post answers this quandary.

So it’s a non-issue. You know you aren’t a steroid hyper-responder, just get on great with Dbol.

IMO, low dose proviron would probably be a better option. It's not suppressive in low doses and could provide a small boost.

I really appreciate tips like these. I also have an Ecdysterone B-cyclodextrin complex I'm trying as well. And creatine obviously. Anything anabolic and not suppressive.

Proviron isn’t anabolic at all. Negligible. It is for estrogen antagonism, libido, semen volume & sperm production, positive energy.

You should look into oral androsterone or Epiandrosterone if you just want a hormonal preWO you wouldn’t really need to cycle of sticking to a few times a week.

I think if you look in the forum there was someone that wrote a huge article on pulsing orals a long time ago, also there was a very old thread had to be over 3 years ago that talked about taking clomid during cycles. There was a guy name Spurfy that posted some good info in that thread. You can look him up and your probably find the thread.

Man how time flies. I ran that experiment and disproved it with my own bloodwork posted deep in that thread. Toremifene on an oral/transdermal cycle slowed but did not prevent my LH from crashing, and total test was extremely low.

 

[jorelldye]

Man how time flies. I ran that experiment and disproved it with my own bloodwork posted deep in that thread. Toremifene on an oral/transdermal cycle slowed but did not prevent my LH from crashing, and total test was extremely low.

I appreciate that you are the lawful good in this forum. It's easy to tire of newbies coming in with the same questions. But I suspect you've already given me the answer here. You seem to have explored everything under the sun on the topic of anabolics.

Does this mean that you had gonadal shutdown but kept your HPTA somewhat active? Would a shot of HCG every few weeks help?

The reason I'm interested in unconventional methods is that every BB influencer out there is pinning for life because they over-did it. At glance, cycling appears to be theoretically sound but actually hazardous.

I'm merely trying to get to my natural potential quickly, being at 31 in my newbie gains. I'm only 208 lbs with a little padding. My goals aren't set high enough for me to commit to lifelong trt.

Are there body builders in this forum who have recovered natural, healthy hormone production after years of spaced out cycles?

 

[MrKleen73]

There are plenty who do, and plenty more on TRT. You also have to consider a lot of people have gone on TRT because they were tired of PCT after cycles. You definitely keep more muscle that way.

If you are truly only going to do these things like once a year you might do okay. I think most of us started out thinking that way too.

You just need to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze. If it ain't then stay natty. If it is then research HCG and other things that can help both on cycle or post. Then run a cycle that will actually give you what you want. Still has a risk but far less.

Also just to note the amount of men that have never touched a steroid and are on TRT is astounding to me. So many estrogenic compounds in our food and environment now it is running rampant. Unfortunately there is nothing to say you won't end up on it anyway. I think anyone over 40 should get levels checked if showing symptoms.

 

[Hyde]

I appreciate that you are the lawful good in this forum. It's easy to tire of newbies coming in with the same questions. But I suspect you've already given me the answer here. You seem to have explored everything under the sun on the topic of anabolics.

Does this mean that you had gonadal shutdown but kept your HPTA somewhat active? Would a shot of HCG every few weeks help?

The reason I'm interested in unconventional methods is that every BB influencer out there is pinning for life because they over-did it. At glance, cycling appears to be theoretically sound but actually hazardous.

I'm merely trying to get to my natural potential quickly, being at 31 in my newbie gains. I'm only 208 lbs with a little padding. My goals aren't set high enough for me to commit to lifelong trt.

Are there body builders in this forum who have recovered natural, healthy hormone production after years of spaced out cycles?

HCG would represent a further suppression to the HPTA; I wouldn’t introduce it if you are serious about minimizing suppression.

I am 31 as well. Started cycling at 21, always came off after 8-12 weeks (including any esters clearing), generally 2 cycles a year later on as the moves away from 6 week things towards 9-12 weeks. Used a bit of HCG with all the cycles in the more recent years, which made recovering from 10 weeks easier than 6 without.

Finally made the jump to blast cruise after the birth of my son early this year. My total test levels were always recovering to 5-600s between cycles, but I didn’t feel great off cycle anymore and I couldn’t maintain gains because I was now past my genetic limits (which were abysmally lower than I expected, btw). But cruising was a performance/physique/lifestyle choice, not a medical necessity at all.

Always thought of myself as a bit more chaotic good. More of a barbarian than a paladin

 

[barische]

This is nothing new, ppl have tried to cheat suppression for years and the reason you don’t find blood work of ppl that have tried this is because they don’t want to post their disappointment. I did Anavar with Clomid and my test was 43 (normally around 500 at that time) in the 7th week.

You say you’re some hyper responder to Dbol (great I guess) but just because you get benefits from a small dose of a drug it doesn’t mean that it effect your body less. Drug benefits = Test suppression.

Same i tried this with low dose epistane. Eod or 3x/week. Doesnt work. Either get on 4wk+ or stay off. Again better off with test + hcg.

 

[jorelldye]

Same i tried this with low dose epistane. Eod or 3x/week. Doesnt work. Either get on 4wk+ or stay off. Again better off with test + hcg.

I'm blown away by the knowledge in this forum. So many experiments and useful anecdotes. You guys are scientists. Thank you for posting.

I'll wait for the green light from blood work and hit the gas again.

 

[Hyde]

I just remembered, the old pulsing article here that got mentioned was by Dr. D I believe and it was about how/why he felt Superdrol is optimal for pulsing. Shorter half life, very strong, fairly cheap, no estrogen conversion or PR activity, and the big thing was pulsing avoided much of the side effects of blasting SD for 3-4 weeks by spreading it out over 5-6 weeks.

Side effect mitigation for similar net gains was the goal of pulsing, NOT avoiding shutdown ultimately. He still recommended a full PCT after about 6 weeks because, well, it was found to be necessary.

A guy could spend $60 on a bottle of SD and a research SERM at the time & get 6 weeks of solid performance enhancement and some real gains, with low sides and no ancillaries needed to control things like bp, estrogen, bloat, liver support because the breaks in dosing helped the body keep up with things.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

I just remembered, the old pulsing article here that got mentioned was by Dr. D I believe and it was about how/why he felt Superdrol is optimal for pulsing. Shorter half life, very strong, fairly cheap, no estrogen conversion or PR activity, and the big thing was pulsing avoided much of the side effects of blasting SD for 3-4 weeks by spreading it out over 5-6 weeks.

Side effect mitigation for similar net gains was the goal of pulsing, NOT avoiding shutdown ultimately. He still recommended a full PCT after about 6 weeks because, well, it was found to be necessary.

A guy could spend $60 on a bottle of SD and a research SERM at the time & get 6 weeks of solid performance enhancement and some real gains, with low sides and no ancillaries needed to control things like bp, estrogen, bloat, liver support because the breaks in dosing helped the body keep up with things.

True. Pulsing seems like it's more effective with the strong compounds

 

[jorelldye]

True. Pulsing seems like it's more effective with the strong compounds

All this effort to change the mind of one noob ️. Thanks guys. I'll just blast.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

All this effort to change the mind of one noob ️. Thanks guys. I'll just blast.

You can always do a consistent run with more mild compounds at low doses? This would make for easier recovery too

 

[Rad83]

All this effort to change the mind of one noob ️. Thanks guys. I'll just blast.

Bruh this ain’t Reddit or the “YouTube comments section” …We keep it a stack