4-DHEA vs 1,4-AD (Boldione)

Lmao!! I have a fridge full of orals and injectables.... soon as my liver gets back to normal, I'm all over it!
Just ordered a butt load of peptides and thermals too.... every time I hear something else get talked about I always want it .... almost feel like a collector!! HAHAHAHA!!
 
This was taken a while back... have several more really cool things added to the collection since then,,, but this certainly says a lot about me LOL

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Since that pic was taken ... I added a couple bottles of katanadrol, for a total of four,, two bottles of helladrol for a total of four,, two bottles of 90 LGI SD-10, several different peptides ghrp's, ghrh's and some fragments,, clen and t3.... also forgot to put in 12 full bottles of androgel I've been hanging on to for the hell of it :)
 
jbryand101b said:
you dont have enough cycle/pct assist from cel, and you need more sns products in there!
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Lol... have two bottles cycle assist and one of pct assist,,, honestly never really looked at sns .... where should I start? Obviously I'm willing to spend money!! LOL
 
grngoloco said:
Lol... have two bottles cycle assist and one of pct assist,,, honestly never really looked at sns .... where should I start? Obviously I'm willing to spend money!! LOL
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It's all about SNS agmatine, cop, focusXT

Def gotta try agmatine :)
 
Husker89 said:
what do nootropics do? Dont they cross the blood brain barrier
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There's tons of different kinds,, of my favorites are precursors to acetylcholine,, I.e. lecithin,, phosphatidyl choline taken with additional pantothenic acid,, DMAE, and piracetam... google them... don't take my word for it,,, I take DMAE h3 specifically.... a great reference guide is the book "Smart Drugs And Nutrients"
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The way I see it AAS's are like suping up the car's motor and suspension,, nootropics are like adding performance chips to the car's computers LOL
 
Husker89 said:
what do nootropics do? Dont they cross the blood brain barrier
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Another side bonus of lecithin is it's awesome ability to emulsify fats in your liver,, great for hdl too.... :)
 
MattPorter said:
We have lots of great ideas in store and hope to make them a reality. One step at a time. Topicals are very "questionable" because they are cosmetics and not quite supplements per se -----think of topicals (IF we actually release one) as a nice little undercover (undergorund) "add-on item."
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Let's be serious here, Matt, and not use fear mongering to justify demonization of topicals. There is an equal amount of validity to the assertion that the esters in the AndroSeries are questionable in terms of DSHEA compliance as there is the theory that topicals are. PP clearly has a market for topicals and the level of interest is demonstrated consistently throughout topics on the web where people bemoan the loss of the original 1-T supplement Primordial offered.

Topical delivery works. I applaud Eric for being innovative and on the cutting edge of an oral delivery system, but time will tell if such a decision is sustainable economically. Having a product that works is great, but if you alienated a sizeable portion of your client base and they can no longer afford to cycle your products, you've potentially turned a sizeable portion of your loyal customers into your critics.

I'm glad you guys saw what a train wreck it was to abandon Dermacrine and commissioned it for exclusive sale elsewhere. Bringing back 1-T or developing some other topicals that work would be in your best interest, IMHO and would satisfy clear market demands.
 
Freepress said:
Let's be serious here, Matt, and not use fear mongering to justify demonization of topicals. There is an equal amount of validity to the assertion that the esters in the AndroSeries are questionable in terms of DSHEA compliance as there is the theory that topicals are. PP clearly has a market for topicals and the level of interest is demonstrated consistently throughout topics on the web where people bemoan the loss of the original 1-T supplement Primordial offered.

Topical delivery works. I applaud Eric for being innovative and on the cutting edge of an oral delivery system, but time will tell if such a decision is sustainable economically. Having a product that works is great, but if you alienated a sizeable portion of your client base and they can no longer afford to cycle your products, you've potentially turned a sizeable portion of your loyal customers into your critics.

I'm glad you guys saw what a train wreck it was to abandon Dermacrine and commissioned it for exclusive sale elsewhere. Bringing back 1-T or developing some other topicals that work would be in your best interest, IMHO and would satisfy clear market demands.
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All I really know about topicals is from two years of androgel usage,,, androgel, at best, had a 10% bioavailability,,, I can't imagine anyone doing much better than that,, also it easily transferred to anyone who touches the area where it was applied ...I.e. women and children,,, other than those two downfalls,, if people are well informed and the market is there,, surely it makes economic sense,, especially if you can mark it up anywhere near the extent of androgel,, to get 105mg of absorbed test through androgel would cost roughly $1000 a month,,, the equivalent in test cyp is less than $50 a month... I personally would never use a topical,, I snuggle my girl and wrestle my boy too much and would never risk their health
 
grngoloco said:
All I really know about topicals is from two years of androgel usage,,, androgel, at best, had a 10% bioavailability,,, I can't imagine anyone doing much better than that,, also it easily transferred to anyone who touches the area where it was applied ...I.e. women and children,,, other than those two downfalls,, if people are well informed and the market is there,, surely it makes economic sense,, especially if you can mark it up anywhere near the extent of androgel,, to get 105mg of absorbed test through androgel would cost roughly $1000 a month,,, the equivalent in test cyp is less than $50 a month... I personally would never use a topical,, I snuggle my girl and wrestle my boy too much and would never risk their health
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Apparently you have never run any of PP's topicals before. The customer satisfaction rate was not only quite stellar, but the products worked.

The OHV carrier delivered greater than 30% on some of the prohormones out there, far greater than conventional oral bioavailability. Not only that, but transdermal delivery of these hormones was slow, steady and consistent - exactly what you would want.

The other added benefit was that you had an abundance of androgenic skin enzymes on the upper trunk which greatly facilitated conversion to the target hormones. Unless you're "snuggling" your girl and boy shirtless, the odds of transfer to them is slim.

And you're putting test cyp out there for comparison. The last time I checked, test cyp was only legal with a prescription. Let's compare prohormones to prohormones and not prohormones to the real deal.
 
Freepress said:
Apparently you have never run any of PP's topicals before. The customer satisfaction rate was not only quite stellar, but the products worked.

The OHV carrier delivered greater than 30% on some of the prohormones out there, far greater than conventional oral bioavailability. Not only that, but transdermal delivery of these hormones was slow, steady and consistent - exactly what you would want.

The other added benefit was that you had an abundance of androgenic skin enzymes on the upper trunk which greatly facilitated conversion to the target hormones. Unless you're "snuggling" your girl and boy shirtless, the odds of transfer to them is slim.

And you're putting test cyp out there for comparison. The last time I checked, test cyp was only legal with a prescription. Let's compare prohormones to prohormones and not prohormones to the real deal.
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I definitely do snuggle shirtless and enjoy midday loving as well,, I like spontaneity and hated having to either make love with a shirt or have her wait while I showered,,, my bringing up test cyp wasn't for Anabolic comparison but for price and bioavailability comparison to topicals! I'm all for topicals as a choice option.. the steady release makes sense, but still have a hard time believing that any supp company out does Abbot Laboratories for bioavailability .... just for me, personally, it's not a smart choice given my family situation
 
grngoloco said:
I definitely do snuggle shirtless and enjoy midday loving as well,, I like spontaneity and hated having to either make love with a shirt or have her wait while I showered,,, my bringing up test cyp wasn't for Anabolic comparison but for price and bioavailability comparison to topicals! I'm all for topicals as a choice option.. the steady release makes sense, but still have a hard time believing that any supp company out does Abbot Laboratories for bioavailability .... just for me, personally, it's not a smart choice given my family situation
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What I was asking you is, were you aware that Primordial Performance had tremendous success with a topical prohormone line that was and still is highly respected? Many of us on this board have used their topicals and can tell you success stories.

The outcry to the discontinuation was such that Primordial Saw fit to re-release it's topical 5-DHEA/pregenelone/7,8 benzo/resveratrol supplement known as Dermacrine, to an exclusive retailer. The company has since licensed production to a company known as BPS and the product is available over at Nutraplanet.

Primordial also still sells a topical test booster/AI/SERM known as Sustain Alpha. It's a tremendous product that delivers solid results.

The company was perhaps most respected for its production of the products "1-T" and "1-T Tren." 1-T was a topical 1-androsterone/5-DHEA/progenelone supplement that worked and ran about $59 per tube. The company offered the same product for a short time containing the now-banned Tren.

They've been there, done that and they know the stuff worked.
 
Freepress said:
What I was asking you is, were you aware that Primordial Performance had tremendous success with a topical prohormone line that was and still is highly respected? Many of us on this board have used their topicals and can tell you success stories.

The outcry to the discontinuation was such that Primordial Saw fit to re-release it's topical 5-DHEA/pregenelone/7,8 benzo/resveratrol supplement known as Dermacrine, to an exclusive retailer. The company has since licensed production to a company known as BPS and the product is available over at Nutraplanet.

Primordial also still sells a topical test booster/AI/SERM known as Sustain Alpha. It's a tremendous product that delivers solid results.

The company was perhaps most respected for its production of the products "1-T" and "1-T Tren." 1-T was a topical 1-androsterone/5-DHEA/progenelone supplement that worked and ran about $59 per tube. The company offered the same product for a short time containing the now-banned Tren.

They've been there, done that and they know the stuff worked.
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Lmao,,, I never once said it didn't work,,, never once said not to use it,, and I did say my only experience with topicals was with androgel,,, I do not believe that anyone is able to get much more than 10% bioavailability, but even with that if the solution is made strong enough and people use enough it's sure to work and companies are sure to make plenty of profit,,, just not for me. Also, if a company sells a topical without a warning to be careful of exposure to women and children, they're being wholly irresponsible!! There are numerous studies showing young boys having detrimental androgenic symptoms from exposure to topicals that rubbed off of someone using exercise equipment et al.
 
testosteronet said:
Freepress, it's not at nutraplanet, yet.

As far as topicals are concerned, I think there is more danger in the air and the water we drink than passing topicals to another individual.

Warnings are about as useless as those warnings they put on tobacco.

Lastly, I think Primordial Performance should also release an
11-ketotestosterone topical as well (i hadn't seen this mentioned). I know Prototype has one, but I like PP's carrier.
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I'd neg you for being so dumb if I were on my laptop,,, you have no respect for the dangers of prohormones to women and children... women can get hair everywhere they don't want it, their hormones can get PERMANENTLY out of whack and their clit can be PERMANENTLY deformed,, children, boys and girls, can have their growth profoundly stunted and can enter puberty as young as three or four years of age if exposed!! The danger is REAL and more immediate than the cancer risk of smoking!!
 
grngoloco said:
I'd neg you for being so dumb if I were on my laptop,,, you have no respect for the dangers of prohormones to women and children... women can get hair everywhere they don't want it, their hormones can get PERMANENTLY out of whack and their clit can be PERMANENTLY deformed,, children, boys and girls, can have their growth profoundly stunted and can enter puberty as young as three or four years of age if exposed!! The danger is REAL and more immediate than the cancer risk of smoking!!
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wait a minute.....you said yesterday you have a few androgels laying around right? that is more potent and more dangerous to women and children than the OTC topicals! :D that is like the pot calling the kettle black....
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
wait a minute.....you said yesterday you have a few androgels laying around right? that is more potent and more dangerous to women and children than the OTC topicals! :D that is like the pot calling the kettle black....
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No shït!! I quit taking them BECAUSE of the dangers!! Hence they're laying around!! The boxes come with a full page, small print warning about transfer exposures to women and children,, I'm all for responsible topical usage,,, key word, "RESPONSIBLE"
 
..... and I'm dead serious about the responsibility of supp companies to inform about the dangers of any supp they sell,, up to and including topicals,, the systemic lack of responsible warnings and advice has gone a long way towards the demonization and illegalization od AAS's and PH's.... I am a full supporter of the Darwinian weeding out of the dumb and weak,, but give those people with half a brain the opportunity to make informed choices. The whole reason for the electoral college, for example, is the public as a whole isn't willing and or able to do quality research!
 
Please do not address these concerns with me ---- I am the one who has been telling Eric to make topicals of ALL singular hormone ingredients for a long time now.

I wanted to have the oral ester products single ---- then the counter parts being topical of the same ingredients. That way we have a product for people who dislike topicals and prefer oral, and a product for those who love the topicals --- satisfying everyone.

Eric can be stubborn, and wants to EVOLVE and move on from the past and keep progressing forward --- I know I know ,,, I have explained to him the awesome response we'd get from bring topicals back, but he has MINIMAL interest as he knows the orals w/the esterfication and LV delivers better absorption of hormones.

Email him yourself and maybe he will open his eyes to your guys opinions. I have expressed mine over and over again, trust me!

-Matt
 
Once again,,, I am pro choice for topicals, but please be kind to your loved ones and avoid exposure,, not just from body to body,, but from body to equipment to the other body
 
grngoloco said:
No shït!! I quit taking them BECAUSE of the dangers!! Hence they're laying around!! The boxes come with a full page, small print warning about transfer exposures to women and children,, I'm all for responsible topical usage,,, key word, "RESPONSIBLE"
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If you were the responsible adult you say you are (judging by your scolding of topical users on here)....then you would have disposed of them (properly) by now. tsk tsk! :D
 
grngoloco said:
..... and I'm dead serious about the responsibility of supp companies to inform about the dangers of any supp they sell,, up to and including topicals,, the systemic lack of responsible warnings and advice has gone a long way towards the demonization and illegalization od AAS's and PH's.... I am a full supporter of the Darwinian weeding out of the dumb and weak,, but give those people with half a brain the opportunity to make informed choices. The whole reason for the electoral college, for example, is the public as a whole isn't willing and or able to do quality research!
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they are making a concerted effort with the new androgel formulation to warn of any and all dangers....their new commercials warn about spreading it to children or women etc. I noticed that much......
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
If you were the responsible adult you say you are (judging by your scolding of topical users on here)....then you would have disposed of them (properly) by now. tsk tsk! :D
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I'll still use them... but am super careful about exposure,, you'd be shocked to know how little it takes to have detrimental effects,,,
 
WARBIRDWS6 said:
If you were the responsible adult you say you are (judging by your scolding of topical users on here)....then you would have disposed of them (properly) by now. tsk tsk! :D
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I assume your idea of "proper disposal" is sending it to you? :D
 
grngoloco said:
I assume your idea of "proper disposal" is sending it to you? :D
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I meant it in a wise ass sort of way.....like since you're being the good citizen and all, better dispose of them and make sure they are in biohazardous waste containers and not in the dumpster :D....but yeah, sending them to a single man would be the BEST choice of disposal LMFAO.....
 
androgel varies in potency from 50mg to 100mg with a 10% absorption rate.

if thats 10% absorbed by the user.....how much could possibly be transferred to another person.....especially after some time has passed since application? think about it.....i'm betting less than 1/10 of the total application can possibly be transferred. so that's 1% absorption. the most potent androgel you can buy contains 100mg of test. so you're talking about 1mg of test being absorbed.

don't some women take orals without permanent virilization? or do they all just accept it? if they do get away with it, i would imagine a tiny amount of underdosed test shouldn't cause much detriment.

that's just how i rationalize it. i could be way off. I am kinda drunk sitting in the computer lab lol!
 
soontobbeast said:
androgel varies in potency from 50mg to 100mg with a 10% absorption rate.

if thats 10% absorbed by the user.....how much could possibly be transferred to another person.....especially after some time has passed since application? think about it.....i'm betting less than 1/10 of the total application can possibly be transferred. so that's 1% absorption. the most potent androgel you can buy contains 100mg of test. so you're talking about 1mg of test being absorbed.

don't some women take orals without permanent virilization? or do they all just accept it? if they do get away with it, i would imagine a tiny amount of underdosed test shouldn't cause much detriment.

that's just how i rationalize it. i could be way off. I am kinda drunk sitting in the computer lab lol!
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I read a report on it,, androgel comes in 1% or 1.62% ... there's several reports of children under 10 being exposed to exercise equipment used by androgel users being thrown into spontaneous puberty among many other reports of permanent damage to women,, nothing to play with,,, I don't mind taking risks with my body, but have no right to put other people in danger,
 
grngoloco said:
I read a report on it,, androgel comes in 1% or 1.62% ... there's several reports of children under 10 being exposed to exercise equipment used by androgel users being thrown into spontaneous puberty among many other reports of permanent damage to women,, nothing to play with,,, I don't mind taking risks with my body, but have no right to put other people in danger,
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wow. thats super crazy. i would never have thought such a tiny amount could do that.
 
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