Unanswered 300mg/week blood results back -

PHOTOSnFIBERS

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So a while back i had a few threads discussing my early TRT experiences. My doctor has me on a 300mg weekly regimen. Many people insisted my test would be skyrocketed, supra-physiological levels if i remember some of the phrasing. Had my first bloods review a few weeks ago and i got my email recently.

In the first week when my doc got my E2 first he called me to get my on an AI as my E2 was high at 146, he put me on 1mg of arimidex, taken when i do my T injections. So the magic number everybody was looking for, my total T was 903, well within the limit the clinic has listed for normal range of 250-1100.

At one point i had discussed here some information i had read, explaining that different people metabolize hormones at different rates. Somebody here even mentioned they have taken 300mg/week and had normal levels if i remember.

My hematocrit was also just slightly out of the 38.5-50% range, i had 51%. I felt great the first month or so and then it seemed to wane slightly, and i asked about this. The reason? The eventual overconversion of E2 and i could tell with more bloating than i had prior. I've been on arimidex now for about 2 weeks and i feel better, less bloating and i feel like the T is working at full capacity again.

I feel great, my numbers look good, and im not on some cruise dose with a 1500-2000 test level. Feel free to ask questions or discuss what you want, perhaps this information will help others with TRT dosing questions.
 
Codybenz

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Good to hear. I was probably one who said that was too much for trt, glad it’s working for you though.
How long have you been on? How many times a week do you inject and how many days after a shot did you have the bloods drawn.
 
Mathb33

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Ah it’s you again! Must suck ass to need 300mg to get to 900 :). I just went in your old thread to go through all the bullshit you told us... where is your dose that’s going to put you in the 2000s + levels and that’s okay as long as your doctor says you’re good to go? I see that your doctor put you into the 800-900 range like we all told you any good doctor would. Just suck ass for you that you need 300mg for that. You’re probably one of the most unlucky man on earth that metabolise test very very very poorly.
 
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PHOTOSnFIBERS

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Good to hear. I was probably one who said that was too much for trt, glad it’s working for you though.
How long have you been on? How many times a week do you inject and how many days after a shot did you have the bloods drawn.
No worries about predictions, i wasn't even sure how it'd turn out but i was hopeful, im just glad everything is going smooth. I go 300mg every saturday. I have been going now for 4.5 mo or so, my bloods were just over 3 mo after my first pin and my doc made sure i was at the trough on my draw, so i had them drawn on day 7 then pinned that evening. Im guessing my levels will actually raise slightly since im now taking an AI as that will be less T converted to E2, does that make sense? Im assuming your T levels drop the more aromatization that happens but i don't know if it's a significant amount or not.

I won't get my next bloods for 6mo if i remember what my doc said, so i guess i won't know for sure till then but as of now at the trough, my levels are minimum 903. So here's the funny thing i didn't mention earlier, my free T was 258.8, about 100 over the standard range listed on my paperwork of 35-155. I suppose that will "suck ass" for the douchebags that showed up here to bash my former thread.
 

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Jeeezus. 200 just recently put me at 1400.
Sorry man.
All good, what's your free test? Everybody is so focused on total T and that really doesn't matter. My free T was 258 so i likely benefit more than the majority of people on these forums. :p
 

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Ah it’s you again! Must suck ass to need 300mg to get to 900 :). I just went in your old thread to go through all the bullshit you told us... where is your dose that’s going to put you in the 2000s + levels and that’s okay as long as your doctor says you’re good to go? I see that your doctor put you into the 800-900 range like we all told you any good doctor would. Just suck ass for you that you need 300mg for that. You’re probably one of the most unlucky man on earth that metabolise test very very very poorly.
Doesn't suck at all, as i mention above, my free T is what really matters in the anabolic sense and mine is pretty high and may get a bit higher now im on arimadex. You could have a total of 1500 with only 100 free and i would be more anabolic with my sucky 900 lol. I actually think im lucky, my doc said my genetic levels of SHBG are probably naturally low, which means i don't need more than a 900 total T to get a very high free T.

Maybe you should feel sorry for yourself? Everything about numbers before was speculation, i was just trusting my doc and his knowledge, looks like he was right eh... What's your free T by the way?
 
Mathb33

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Doesn't suck at all, as i mention above, my free T is what really matters in the anabolic sense and mine is pretty high and may get a bit higher now im on arimadex. You could have a total of 1500 with only 100 free and i would be more anabolic with my sucky 900 lol. I actually think im lucky, my doc said my genetic levels of SHBG are probably naturally low, which means i don't need more than a 900 total T to get a very high free T.

Maybe you should feel sorry for yourself? Everything about numbers before was speculation, i was just trusting my doc and his knowledge, looks like he was right eh... What's your free T by the way?
I can’t believe I just read what you said... like what?? So many things are wrong... the subject here is TRT ...the purpose of this therapy is to give back someone’s quality of life and general health. And you’re talking about " what really matter in the anabolic sense is free test" why are you even putting TRT and anabolic In the same sentence?? A couple months ago we were arguing with you that regardless of the dose needed, YOU WOULD BE PUT AROUND 800-900 TOTAL TEST. YOU WERE CLAIMING THAT IF SOMEONE IS HEALTY ON 2000 TOTAL TEST THERES WAS NOTHING WRONG LIVING LIKE THAT WHICH IS COMPLETLY FALSE. You told us your doctor would put you ABOVE SUPRAPHYSIOLOGICAL LEVELS WHICH IS FALSE HE DID NOT. On another note, did anyone here ever say that free test wasn’t important? Obviously if you have 2000 total test and 50 free test you have a problem. My only point is all the dumb **** you said in your thread a couple months ago was wrong and your situation right now proves it.
 
Mathb33

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All good, what's your free test? Everybody is so focused on total T and that really doesn't matter. My free T was 258 so i likely benefit more than the majority of people on these forums. :p
You really don’t get it do you ... even if your total T was 900 and your free T was 100. Your doctor would NOT put you into supraphysiological levels (HIGHER TOTAL T) just so your free T is higher.
 
Mathb33

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@PHOTOSnFIBERS looking at matt bloods he has better total t and better free t than you with 33% less mg weekly than you. As I said, you’re really not metabolizing test as good as you think, actually you’re not at all.
 

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You really don’t get it do you ... even if your total T was 900 and your free T was 100. Your doctor would NOT put you into supraphysiological levels (HIGHER TOTAL T) just so your free T is higher.
LOL yea just like my doc didn't "get it" back when 300mg was too high? Dude just save face and slither away, you have been wrong the entire time and you are still wrong now. And now you are just mad im getting more out of my shitty 300mg than you are on your dose, probably bc you are one of the most unlucky men on earth.

Superior genetics!
 
Matthersby

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LOL yea just like my doc didn't "get it" back when 300mg was too high? Dude just save face and slither away, you have been wrong the entire time and you are still wrong now. And now you are just mad im getting more out of my shitty 300mg than you are on your dose, probably bc you are one of the most unlucky men on earth.

Superior genetics!
The problem I’m seeing with 300mg long term isn’t your test levels. 900 would be a fine place to live at for life. However, staying on a pseudo-cycle is probably going to come with side effects, especially elevated hematocrit. But I guess if your Doc knows what he’s doing he’ll have a plan for you when and if you get there.
 
Matthersby

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No need to get mad at Math. He’s just saying that’s a bonkers dose for TRT and 99% of the time he’d be right. Either your Doc knows something we don’t or he is Nostradamus and knew you’d respond to a higher dose initially
 

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View attachment 186442
Proviron my friend.
Best. Steroid. Ever.
Good for you bro, that's some great free levels lol. Your charts actually look similar to mine, my rbc and hemo was just a hair over. My total/free T should go up a bit like i said now that im on an AI but i won't know how much till my next test, but i figure a free to total ratio of 3.1 is good. But im happy at at least 258, i feel great. What's funny is our numbers are so similar yet the douchebag troll here wants me to believe im somehow in a bad place lol.

Funny you mention proviron, i was just looking that up yesterday and learned about it's SHBG blocking, not that i need it. Do you cycle it? I read it has a lower anabolic affect than T but it is a natural AI and binds to SHBG so your other AAS can work their magic better. Any sides from long term use?

186444
 

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I can’t believe I just read what you said... like what?? So many things are wrong... the subject here is TRT ...the purpose of this therapy is to give back someone’s quality of life and general health. And you’re talking about " what really matter in the anabolic sense is free test" why are you even putting TRT and anabolic In the same sentence?? A couple months ago we were arguing with you that regardless of the dose needed, YOU WOULD BE PUT AROUND 800-900 TOTAL TEST. YOU WERE CLAIMING THAT IF SOMEONE IS HEALTY ON 2000 TOTAL TEST THERES WAS NOTHING WRONG LIVING LIKE THAT WHICH IS COMPLETLY FALSE. You told us your doctor would put you ABOVE SUPRAPHYSIOLOGICAL LEVELS WHICH IS FALSE HE DID NOT. On another note, did anyone here ever say that free test wasn’t important? Obviously if you have 2000 total test and 50 free test you have a problem. My only point is all the dumb **** you said in your thread a couple months ago was wrong and your situation right now proves it.
Total test doesn't actually help you, it's your free test that matters right? And being more anabolic means it's easier to lose fat and keep muscle on, which is a good thing, it's healthy. So yea the word "anabolic" still applies to TRT, or are you not aware that's one of the benefits? Helps aging men build back lost muscle and shed fat?

We know what your deal is, you just want to argue and look for anything to complain about. And im not the one in my original thread that said i would be at 2000, other people were saying my 300mg would put me there. I simply said if that's the case i trust my doc. And as luck would have it, i ended up in the safe zone, just as he planned it.

So no im not unlucky, i managed to have a 900 total and have nearly a 3:1 ratio for free test. You on the other hand haven't mentioned what your free/total numbers are. Care to share?
 

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No need to get mad at Math. He’s just saying that’s a bonkers dose for TRT and 99% of the time he’d be right. Either your Doc knows something we don’t or he is Nostradamus and knew you’d respond to a higher dose initially
I think he's smart and knows his stuff. Yes he knew, probably by having the proper data from my initial bloods. I think that's the point, nobody here had that info and judged him, somebody even called him a moron in that original thread yet here we are sitting at 903.

I don't think you have to be Nostradamus, he said he's treated thousands of men over the last 15 years, so im guessing he's seen everything there is to see and knows what to do. But yea that math guy is trying really hard to troll, telling me im one of the most unlucky guys on earth without even knowing my free test? Even i know that's more important than total T.

The dude is mad bc my old thread i talked trash back to people and didn't just take the advice of strangers. So he's one of those psychos who holds a forum grudge and he's here to get getbacks. But nah im good, the biggest difference between your and my bloods is im taking 300mg to your 200, not a huge difference and why would that matter? It's not like injecting another 100mg hurts or anything, and i end up feeling great with safe numbers.
 

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Good for you bro, that's some great free levels lol. Your charts actually look similar to mine, my rbc and hemo was just a hair over. My total/free T should go up a bit like i said now that im on an AI but i won't know how much till my next test, but i figure a free to total ratio of 3.1 is good. But im happy at at least 258, i feel great. What's funny is our numbers are so similar yet the douchebag troll here wants me to believe im somehow in a bad place lol.

Funny you mention proviron, i was just looking that up yesterday and learned about it's SHBG blocking, not that i need it. Do you cycle it? I read it has a lower anabolic affect than T but it is a natural AI and binds to SHBG so your other AAS can work their magic better. Any sides from long term use?

View attachment 186444

Can you just stop? He didnt say your numbers are bad. Hes just saying needing 300mg of test to get your numbers isnt exactly good.
 

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The problem I’m seeing with 300mg long term isn’t your test levels. 900 would be a fine place to live at for life. However, staying on a pseudo-cycle is probably going to come with side effects, especially elevated hematocrit. But I guess if your Doc knows what he’s doing he’ll have a plan for you when and if you get there.
As i understand it, and this is something i looked into at my clinic, sides don't come from the amount of serum you inject. Your body's sides come from actual total test levels. If i end up at 900 it doesn't matter if it's from 50mg a week or 500.

I've also read that sides are based on total levels of T and not free, so having the lower total T is always better when it comes to long term damage, which is why lower levels of SHBG and albumin are good bc it lets you have more free T without having a higher total T.
 

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Can you just stop? He didnt say your numbers are bad. Hes just saying needing 300mg of test to get your numbers isnt exactly good.
And i disagree. So if it's not good, im just saying hey explain exactly why? I've discussed it with my doc and the blood tech there, i've spent many hours researching it online. All info i have received says the same thing, the amount of serum you inject isn't the issue, and why would it be?

All it means is my body metabolizes (ie filters) it out faster than others. Ok and? There's nothing i have found anywhere that suggests injecting another 100mg is in any way inferior to 200. What matters is your blood levels and how your body responds.

Unless somebody has some actual research to back up the claim that the amount of serum itself is "less good", then it's getting written up as bogus bro science. Any takers? The only negative i can find is it costs 100mg more, which for me is about $14/mo.
 

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Ah it’s you again! Must suck ass to need 300mg to get to 900 :). I just went in your old thread to go through all the bullshit you told us... where is your dose that’s going to put you in the 2000s + levels and that’s okay as long as your doctor says you’re good to go? I see that your doctor put you into the 800-900 range like we all told you any good doctor would. Just suck ass for you that you need 300mg for that. You’re probably one of the most unlucky man on earth that metabolise test very very very poorly.
Can you just stop? He didnt say your numbers are bad. Hes just saying needing 300mg of test to get your numbers isnt exactly good.
And no, read his post above, he's doing more than just saying it "isn't exactly good". He's trying to troll and purposely being offensive. No problem dude not gonna hurt my feelers but just expect to get it back. Im still waiting to see his free test levels otherwise he seems to be the unlucky guy.

Whats the matter Mathb, cat got your tongue?
 
Mathb33

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I’m just letting you do you, I don’t think arguing will change anything between us. My levels on 200mg are similar to Matt’s my blast is over in a couple of weeks and I’ve already said I’ll post my end of blast / first month cruise bloodworks in October. I’ll even tag you in it if you want.
 

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Sometimes being right is overrated and comes at the expense of looking foolish.
So true, and sometime people are wrong and look like morons, as people found out when they called my doctor a moron and my levels ended up being just right. And now here we are again, with somebody saying something is wrong with my dosing and serum volume. At least this time you guys chose a claim that's hard to disprove. Problem is it's hard to prove too, which is why im still waiting.

I mean hey im up for learning im wrong, but the question stands. Why is 200mg of serum in any way better than 300 if the bloods end up identical? All this other talk is pointless if nobody has an answer to that. I even posted my blood work, so now the only thing people can pick at is my dose.

Well guys im waiting. I thought people here were actually knowledgable, but i was let down once when people questioned my doc and it turned out he was right. Now we have this 300mg discussion. Im starting to think people here are just bro science majors who don't really know anything...
 
Beau

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So true, as people found out when they called my doctor a moron and my levels ended up being just right. And now here we are again, with somebody saying something is wrong with my dosing and serum volume. At least this time you guys chose a claim that's hard to disprove. Problem is it's hard to prove too, which is why im still waiting.

I mean hey im up for learning im wrong, but the question stands. Why is 200mg of serum in any way better than 300 if the bloods end up identical? All this other talk is pointless if nobody has an answer to that. I even posted my blood work, so not the only thing people can pick at is my dose.

Well guys im waiting. I thought people here were actually knowledgable, but i was let down once when people questioned my doc and it turned out he was right. Now we have this 300mg discussion. Im starting to think people here are just bro science majors who don't really know anything...
"You guys" seem to suggest that I have a dog in this fight. I don't.

To clarify:

I don't think you MD is a moron.

I hope things turn out well for you.

More importantly, I hope you will share the nudes of your MIL.
 

PHOTOSnFIBERS

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I don't think you MD is a moron.

I hope things turn out well for you.

More importantly, I hope you will share the nudes of your MIL.
I appreciate it, i thin he's a smart guy. I appreciate it and i think things will work out great. And no you don't want to see those, she's about 60. But for the record somebody actually called him a moron, called my wife one too lol. This is how forums go, some people are very immature and can't stand being wrong and turn to personal insults.

Now im back discussing my levels and "some" people are still holding a grudge.
 
Beau

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I appreciate it, i thin he's a smart guy. I appreciate it and i think things will work out great. And no you don't want to see those, she's about 60. But for the record somebody actually called him a moron, called my wife one too lol. This is how forums go, some people are very immature and can't stand being wrong and turn to personal insults.

Now im back discussing my levels and "some" people are still holding a grudge.
It is OK if she is about 60.

I think sharing the pics will make you feel better about this whole thing. It will be cleansing, perhaps even cathartic. It may also improve your MIL's feeling of belonging and self-worth.
 
Codybenz

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How many ml a week is your shot? Just curious.

And I’m glad it works out for you. But to answer your question in a basic way, I’m not a doctor and don’t pretend to be. But typically when you are dealing with any drug, the less you can take and acquire the desired results is the better option. At the end of the day you are injecting 300mg of test. That’s outside of the normal range for trt. Your body obviously needs that. The question/concern is why. What is your body doing with test? Converting more to estrogen? Dht? You just increase your chance of sides the higher a dose of anything goes. I think you are already seeing it with your rbc and hemotacrit levels. Being out of range after only 6 months of trt is not ideal.

But if you trust your doc and like your doc then don’t worry about what we say. But I would not disregard the advise and information you get on here. Real life experience is a lot of times the best info and research you will find on AAS. Comparatively very little medical research and trials on a lot of these compounds.
 
Beau

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How many ml a week is your shot? Just curious.

And I’m glad it works out for you. But to answer your question in a basic way, I’m not a doctor and don’t pretend to be. But typically when you are dealing with any drug, the less you can take and acquire the desired results is the better option. At the end of the day you are injecting 300mg of test. That’s outside of the normal range for trt. Your body obviously needs that. The question/concern is why. What is your body doing with test? Converting more to estrogen? Dht? You just increase your chance of sides the higher a dose of anything goes. I think you are already seeing it with your rbc and hemotacrit levels. Being out of range after only 6 months of trt is not ideal.

But if you trust your doc and like your doc then don’t worry about what we say. But I would disregard the advise and information you get on here. Real life experience is a lot of times the best info and research you will find on AAS. Comparatively very little medical research and trials on a lot of these compounds.
You'd like to see the nudes too, huh?
 
Matthersby

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As i understand it, and this is something i looked into at my clinic, sides don't come from the amount of serum you inject. Your body's sides come from actual total test levels. If i end up at 900 it doesn't matter if it's from 50mg a week or 500.

I've also read that sides are based on total levels of T and not free, so having the lower total T is always better when it comes to long term damage, which is why lower levels of SHBG and albumin are good bc it lets you have more free T without having a higher total T.
Unfortunately, this study seems to suggest that it’s directly related to dose as the increased blood viscosity in mice did not increase at lower dose longer term treatments, but increased quickly with high dose short term treatments. So the dose does matter to a degree. But the other study I read also suggests the longer the treatment, the greater the increase of elevated hematocrit due to rbc/epo..
otherwise we wouldn’t really need to cycle gear, we could just stay on 750 year round..


But hey, I’m not a doctor, but what’s strange to me, is the more established TRT Docs tend to start guys at 120-160, very few outside of money-making aging clinics start right at 200.
So 300 is alarming to anyone here who’s done any amount of research or experience with TRT.

I get that you want an “I told you so” thread. I just don’t think anyone is gonna be like “well this doc is sure reinventing the wheel, we should all be starting at 300” so you may be in for a shitload of pages of arguing and using all CAPS because none of us think this is ok.
But don’t argue with me, there’s loads of guys that already have started. I am taking a hell of an economics class and I don’t have the time to keep looking up studies on this.
 
Beau

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Well, it seems like we have a rather large and growing contingent interested in seeing OP's nude pictures of his mother in law.

In thinking about this a bit more, it seems that some important relationships have been strained by the arguing back and forth about OP's MD and the dosing protocol. I can't be the only one that would like to see all of this upsettedness resolved in a friendly manner and in a way that allows important bonding within the forum community to resume.

I, for one, believe providing nudes of your MIL will be received much like well intended olive branch and in the spirit of male bonding.

And, extra style points will be awarded if she is doing anything "weird".
 
Beau

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Unfortunately, this study seems to suggest that it’s directly related to dose as the increased blood viscosity in mice did not increase at lower dose longer term treatments, but increased quickly with high dose short term treatments. So the dose does matter to a degree. But the other study I read also suggests the longer the treatment, the greater the increase of elevated hematocrit due to rbc/epo..
otherwise we wouldn’t really need to cycle gear, we could just stay on 750 year round..


But hey, I’m not a doctor, but what’s strange to me, is the more established TRT Docs tend to start guys at 120-160, very few outside of money-making aging clinics start right at 200.
So 300 is alarming to anyone here who’s done any amount of research or experience with TRT.

I get that you want an “I told you so” thread. I just don’t think anyone is gonna be like “well this doc is sure reinventing the wheel, we should all be starting at 300” so you may be in for a shitload of pages of arguing and using all CAPS because none of us think this is ok.
But don’t argue with me, there’s loads of guys that already have started. I am taking a hell of an economics class and I don’t have the time to keep looking up studies on this.
Are you in for a bunch of nudes of a 60 year old MIL? That always helped me when studying Econ. My bet says there are a couple of "shotgun cleaning" pictures.
 
Matthersby

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Instead of name calling, arguing, and calling your doc stupid or anything like that, I’d actually like more info if you’re willing to do that.
Does he inject you once a week in office?
Prescription? Is it from “his” pharmacy?
Did he say how often for labs?
Did he start you at 300 for any reason he may have hinted at?

I can tell you’ve done research on this so disregard if you’re already aware, but the reason your free test is high is because it sounds like you’re new to TRT. You haven’t had years of your receptors eventually saying “dood, **** this, I’m closed for business” and your SHBG moving into town like a Saudi Arabian smoke shop owner.
That’s when you see those number start to go astray. And judging by the amount of emphasis you’re putting on those numbers, you won’t be happy, but will find what we have found: still have a libido and still make gains.
I FEEL nothing when my free test is 80 vs 380. So while it is important on that piece of paper, I’ve never noticed a difference in life except when running other gear. It definitely rocks for that.
 

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How many ml a week is your shot? Just curious.

And I’m glad it works out for you. But to answer your question in a basic way, I’m not a doctor and don’t pretend to be. But typically when you are dealing with any drug, the less you can take and acquire the desired results is the better option. At the end of the day you are injecting 300mg of test. That’s outside of the normal range for trt. Your body obviously needs that. The question/concern is why. What is your body doing with test? Converting more to estrogen? Dht? You just increase your chance of sides the higher a dose of anything goes. I think you are already seeing it with your rbc and hemotacrit levels. Being out of range after only 6 months of trt is not ideal.

But if you trust your doc and like your doc then don’t worry about what we say. But I would not disregard the advise and information you get on here. Real life experience is a lot of times the best info and research you will find on AAS. Comparatively very little medical research and trials on a lot of these compounds.
It's 1.5ml, which is standard as you get 200mg of T cyp per 1ml of solution. As for my other numbers, mine were nearly the same on my pre TRT test, i just don't have that copy to show you guys. We went over my bloods then as he was discussing things. In fact, my blood pressure has actually dropped since getting ON TRT, not that it was high before but my numbers haven't really gotten worse overall. My wife works in medical and noted my hemo, before TRT, was actually higher than it is now. It's just not so easy to diagnose things from a couch on a forum member.

To answer your question of why i need more, i already did in an old thread about all this. Not everybody has the same level of hormone metabolism, and not all T is metabolized into other hormones, some is simply filtered out of the body. The fact im taking 300mg a week and only have a 903 T should tell you that there's a wild variation in how people's bodies deal with hormones.

I found an article months ago that said something to the affect of, people have different metabolic rates for burning calories, hormones are the same, some of us "burn" through them faster than others.
 
Codybenz

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Yes it’s common knowledge that people’s bodies metabolize hormones different. If not cycles would be much easier to predict and run.
 
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And if your rbc and hematocrit levels were high before trt you might want to get checked for sleep apnea. Just a suggestion
 

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Unfortunately, this study seems to suggest that it’s directly related to dose as the increased blood viscosity in mice did not increase at lower dose longer term treatments, but increased quickly with high dose short term treatments. So the dose does matter to a degree. But the other study I read also suggests the longer the treatment, the greater the increase of elevated hematocrit due to rbc/epo..
otherwise we wouldn’t really need to cycle gear, we could just stay on 750 year round..


But hey, I’m not a doctor, but what’s strange to me, is the more established TRT Docs tend to start guys at 120-160, very few outside of money-making aging clinics start right at 200.
So 300 is alarming to anyone here who’s done any amount of research or experience with TRT.

I get that you want an “I told you so” thread. I just don’t think anyone is gonna be like “well this doc is sure reinventing the wheel, we should all be starting at 300” so you may be in for a shitload of pages of arguing and using all CAPS because none of us think this is ok.
But don’t argue with me, there’s loads of guys that already have started. I am taking a hell of an economics class and I don’t have the time to keep looking up studies on this.
I tried the URL and it didn't work. But when it comes to mice im curious what the doze size was in relation. Most mice studies have then on massively overdosed regimens, like the study people link to causing cancer for the "sarm" cardarine (GW501516). There was a single study showing a link in cancer in rats but the thing is, the doses they administered for rats were like 1000x that of the highest dose i've heard any human every taking. To match the dose for humans you'd have to eat like $500 worth of cardarine a day, not really likely, yet people still cite that research when discussing GW50.

Is 300mg of T per week 100 more than a 200 dose? Yep, but i'd bet rodents in studies were given waaaay higher doses relative to body size. I have no doubt a human taking 1500mg of T per week will have issues, but we are far from that. And it's with mice at that, not always a direct correlation to people. And, they were testing doses i assume, but were they checking blood levels?

If two mice got a massively high dose and one only had a ng/dl rating 30% lower than the other, is that being noted in the study? All you mention is the dose, im saying i think the blood levels are what matters, maybe the high dose for the mice just meant they had high blood levels and that's what the issue was.

I don't think my doc is reinventing the wheel, i just think im at the one end of the spectrum and so it's more rare so you don't hear about it as much. I doubt anybody here has had a doc disclose all their clients so how does anybody even know how odd my situation is?
 

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And if your rbc and hematocrit levels were high before trt you might want to get checked for sleep apnea. Just a suggestion
My guess is the blood issue was from weight gain. Not to get into a long story but a neck injury derailed any exercise about 11 years ago. Couldn't run, couldn't do any strenuous lifting that caused my traps to put pressure on my neck disks. Had a herniated disc and two bulges, and a pinched nerve. I opted to not have surgery and just let it heal over time.

8 years later it was getting better, nerve damage was lessening, strength i lost in my left arm was getting better. I still have to be careful and don't squat or do deads, no overloading of the traps, but i can do anything else heavy again, even got my bench up to 335 this year. Problem is, i gained like a lot of fat over those 8 or 9 years, up to 255 and that's after no lifting for 8 years.

So yea im not surprised my blood markers weren't perfect but i've also dropped like 5% body fat in a few months and haven't even cleaned up my diet yet. Im probly the only person i know that was at 30% body fat and didn't have hypertension or diabetes, i tend to be healthy, i just had an injury that messed me up.

Now im back at it and getting in better shape and have seen some of my markers improve even coming on TRT.
 

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Yes it’s common knowledge that people’s bodies metabolize hormones different. If not cycles would be much easier to predict and run.
Right and this is all im saying. Everything i have read and heard says it's blood levels that dictate issues, not the dose. The dose just gets you to a certain blood level, what level that is depends on the person. It's why some guys who do roids and don't do it by the book, they don't get bloods and whatnot, they can all take the same doses and some have issues and some don'. Some die at 38 and some live to 70.

I don't think evidence proves dose is the actual culprit, i think ultimately it's what's in the blood. They are of course linked in an individual, higher dose means more in blood but not necessarily between different subjects.
 
Matthersby

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Right and this is all im saying. Everything i have read and heard says it's blood levels that dictate issues, not the dose. The dose just gets you to a certain blood level, what level that is depends on the person. It's why some guys who do roids and don't do it by the book, they don't get bloods and whatnot, they can all take the same doses and some have issues and some don'. Some die at 38 and some live to 70.

I don't think evidence proves dose is the actual culprit, i think ultimately it's what's in the blood. They are of course linked in an individual, higher dose means more in blood but not necessarily between different subjects.
I think we are all pressing on different variables. I don’t necessarily care what the dose is, nor the levels(free or total), I mean I do, I like 1100 personally.
And I agree with you. It’s all about the bloods.
What concerns me is your dose in relation to rbc/epo stimulation and overall hematocrit. Your body may not metabolize hormones as well as some of us, but who’s to say what erythrogenic effect that dose will have long term? My guess is it would be the same as anyone on a low dose cycle (250-400) and in a matter of months your Hct/Hgb will start to teeter the high end and eventually go over.
All the other stuff I agree none of it matters.
My ONLY concern ever with using this drug for the rest of my life is blood viscosity. No other organ will be affected in any way as far as I’m concern(prostate aside).
Maybe you can check in every 3 months, because it would be interesting to see. I dunno. I feel like we are all spinning our wheels here but hopefully you ignore us all and enjoy being on TRT. I love it.
 

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I think we are all pressing on different variables. I don’t necessarily care what the dose is, nor the levels(free or total), I mean I do, I like 1100 personally.
And I agree with you. It’s all about the bloods.
What concerns me is your dose in relation to rbc/epo stimulation and overall hematocrit. Your body may not metabolize hormones as well as some of us, but who’s to say what erythrogenic effect that dose will have long term? My guess is it would be the same as anyone on a low dose cycle (250-400) and in a matter of months your Hct/Hgb will start to teeter the high end and eventually go over.
All the other stuff I agree none of it matters.
My ONLY concern ever with using this drug for the rest of my life is blood viscosity. No other organ will be affected in any way as far as I’m concern(prostate aside).
Maybe you can check in every 3 months, because it would be interesting to see. I dunno. I feel like we are all spinning our wheels here but hopefully you ignore us all and enjoy being on TRT. I love it.
Lol well i definitely catalog info from people even if i don't agree with it at the time. It's like before, i knew i would get bloods at the 3mo mark and get real numbers concerning my T dosing eventually so everything till then was only speculation anyway. I could be wrong, it's possible my next bloods are in 2 or 3 mo but i thought i remember my doc saying my first review was 3 mo in, then recurring ones are every 6mo.

Worst case scenario i will get everything checked again in about 5mo and we will go from there. I could pay to have it checked before then, it's only $80 but i don't think it's needed as i was barely over and that's with a TERRIBLE diet. When i say bad i mean i don't watch what i eat at all, my only concern is to not overeat too much (total calories) and to make sure i get at least 100g of protein a day. Aside from that im a very bad eater and plan to clean it up so i have a lot to gain from that.

So im guessing a lot of my blood numbers will improve after that. Viscosity might not be affected much by diet, but i've been reading up on it and im pretty sure i know one way to improve it. I tend to be constantly dehydrated, im not very good at keeping water going in. My gym has a electro body comp machine and among other things it measures hydration. I've tested 3 times on it and each time i was moderately dehydrated.

Not surprising as twice were during hot months this year. I live in the midwest and it's very hot and humid here, considering my bloods were square in the middle of summer, i'd guess that affected my hemo numbers a bit.
 
Matthersby

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Lol well i definitely catalog info from people even if i don't agree with it at the time. It's like before, i knew i would get bloods at the 3mo mark and get real numbers concerning my T dosing eventually so everything till then was only speculation anyway. I could be wrong, it's possible my next bloods are in 2 or 3 mo but i thought i remember my doc saying my first review was 3 mo in, then recurring ones are every 6mo.

Worst case scenario i will get everything checked again in about 5mo and we will go from there. I could pay to have it checked before then, it's only $80 but i don't think it's needed as i was barely over and that's with a TERRIBLE diet. When i say bad i mean i don't watch what i eat at all, my only concern is to not overeat too much (total calories) and to make sure i get at least 100g of protein a day. Aside from that im a very bad eater and plan to clean it up so i have a lot to gain from that.

So im guessing a lot of my blood numbers will improve after that. Viscosity might not be affected much by diet, but i've been reading up on it and im pretty sure i know one way to improve it. I tend to be constantly dehydrated, im not very good at keeping water going in. My gym has a electro body comp machine and among other things it measures hydration. I've tested 3 times on it and each time i was moderately dehydrated.

Not surprising as twice were during hot months this year. I live in the midwest and it's very hot and humid here, considering my bloods were square in the middle of summer, i'd guess that affected my hemo numbers a bit.
Alright brother. Do what’s best for you and enjoy. Keep us posted on what that dose looks like long term. I try not to ever sound judgemental or anything, I just want to learn every day, and I’m a little surprised with that dose, but that doesn’t mean ****. Your doc and you should continue looking out for you. Not any of us and our opinions. Hormone manipulation and nutrition fascinate me to no end, and I definitely don’t have the answers, just want to keep on learning.
Good luck sir
 

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