Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

3 week pheraplex cycle

Menacer said:
Beat around the bush all you want, PP is a steroid and it should be treated like one. Just becauase it is a pill and it comes in a pretty little bottle does not mean it should be taken lightly. A responsible post cycle therapy for PP or any steroid for that matter should contain a serm! Care should also be taken to make sure that all supporting supps are taken for the entire duration of the cycle including post cycle therapy. If you dont want to take a serm with your post cycle therapy than you MAY risk unwanted consequences that are avoidable. I think that telling newbs looking for help with their post cycle therapy's that they do not need to worry about a serm is a bad idea.
Click to expand...

Ok, well why don't you tell him about the hepatoxic effects of a serm and how damaging it is to natural gh levels. Why don't you justify this statement for me please. If anything, SERMS are more detrimental then helpful.
 
mattyh7688 said:
possibly one of the dumbest things ive heard on here :dump:
if there were so terrible they wouldnt be used in almost every single steroid cycle out there for post cycle therapy and even most prohormones/prosteroids
Click to expand...

Your ignorance is flattering! PLEASE do some research on them before you use them. Liver tocixity alone is beyond that of most cycles. Aside from you & everybody else playing "domino" here, following in others' footsteps and not making decisions for themselves without using any knowledge whatsoever, like I have said before, I only voice my opinions, I do not ask others to act on them. Please, stop tugging on my pants, before I give you what you really want.
 
RisingAgainst said:
Your ignorance is flattering! PLEASE do some research on them before you use them. Liver tocixity alone is beyond that of most cycles. Aside from you & everybody else playing "domino" here, following in others' footsteps and not making decisions for themselves without using any knowledge whatsoever, like I have said before, I only voice my opinions, I do not ask others to act on them. Please, stop tugging on my pants, before I give you what you really want.
Click to expand...

I think you need to do the same, my friend...

Don't get bent out of shape when someone has a different view as you...

And their view is right...
 
PumpingIron said:
I think you need to do the same, my friend...

Don't get bent out of shape when someone has a different view as you...

And their view is right...
Click to expand...

Lol, quit tugging on my own pants? mmmkk! Nobody is bent out of shape, I am just not as tolerant to ignorance as others. I believe this thread needs to be temporarily closed until next week when I post about SERMs and the truth of things and shock this oh so sheltered forum.
 
Whoa, whoa, cant we all just get along?

Serms are not a necessary part of post cycle therapy unless you feel you need one. Several of the post cycle therapy experts have written long articles on how they're only needed if you are prone to gyno. I'm not saying don't take one, hell if it makes you feel good about your cycle, go for it. Odds are you'll never have an issue with gyno though.
I've personally recommended this or that product and found the one in a thousand gyno who gets actual legit gyno on cycle, my advice was don't run wet phs and look into serms. So obviously I'm not against them I just think 90% of the bodybuilding population doesn't need to use them.
I am a prime example of someone who isn't prone to gyno having no problem running ph cycles (some very ridiculous ones at that - double methyls anyone?) and being fine with a little AI or 6-bromo use and coming out fine with blood work to prove it. I have never taken a serm, and don't intend to.
Serms can do some damage, however if you have a gyno issue, the small amount of potential damage is outweighed by the need to eliminate the effects of gyno.
The "tried and true" mentality of Serm use is probably what bothers me the most. It's the same mentality that floats around every gym. Example: person A tells person b he ran his cycle like this, person b tells person c, until you have this overwhelming "knowledge" that shuns independent thought. I'm not saying its wrong, but I would rather see people run a simple, legal, post cycle therapy and have a serm lying around worst case than to use them every time.

Next, I don't care what anyone says - PHs are aAS. They're modified with methyls to skate certain laws, but they're a version of anabolic steroids. If you argue with me on this point, I'm just going to laugh at you. Heh, and pheraplex and superdrol aren't dangerous, they're whats for breakfast. ;)
 
Oh never mind :ntome: :D
 
The bottom line is every post cycle therapy situation is different so everyone's going to give you different advice based on their experiences. Nobody on this board has your exact body composition nor the same cycle history.

I've ran numerous PCTs that have included SERMs, DHEA, RXT, Retain, Fenu, Trib, and Mass FX. Based on my personal experience, I have found that simply running one SERM after a cycle is sufficient. Less is more.
 
RisingAgainst said:
Liver tocixity alone is beyond that of most cycles.
Click to expand...

Where is your proof for this statement? Are your really trying to claim that three weeks on a reasonable dose of torimifene is going to be harder on the liver than multiple weeks of around 30mg/ed of the current designer methylated steroids? Keeping in mind that liver and other support supps should be preloaded and ran the entire duration of the cycle including the entire time the torimifene is in the system? And for those chiming in saying they have vast expierience with methyls and that they have never used a serm nor would they ever, can you please post some bloodwork? I will agree that three weeks of PP is not going to be a very harsh cycle as far as shutdown or probably even liver values and you probably could get by without a serm, if you are too lazy to track one down and put it in your post cycle therapy. However this viewpoint that serms are not important or needed in order to post cycle steroids is bad advice. The viewpoint that serms do more harm than good and should be avoided in post cycling is ridiculous IMHO!
 
Menacer said:
Where is your proof for this statement? Are your really trying to claim that three weeks on a reasonable dose of torimifene is going to be harder on the liver than multiple weeks of around 30mg/ed of the current designer methylated steroids? Keeping in mind that liver and other support supps should be preloaded and ran the entire duration of the cycle including the entire time the torimifene is in the system? And for those chiming in saying they have vast expierience with methyls and that they have never used a serm nor would they ever, can you please post some bloodwork? I will agree that three weeks of PP is not going to be a very harsh cycle as far as shutdown or probably even liver values and you probably could get by without a serm, if you are too lazy to track one down and put it in your post cycle therapy. However this viewpoint that serms are not important or needed in order to post cycle steroids is bad advice. The viewpoint that serms do more harm than good and should be avoided in post cycling is ridiculous IMHO!
Click to expand...

Do some research on it man, average followers on this forum are running 40mg nolva. The average cycle ran is usually a methyl/non methyl combo. Nolvadex elevates liver values higher than the average cycle, it also halts igf and gh production, which is also a bad thing during pct. Dude, before you pretend to understand this, please do some research on it.
 
This is a quote from Dinoiii:
dinoiii said:
I too am a believer of your suggestion not requiring it btw. That said, people often forget with their 40mg suggestion (something started a long time ago in domino hoo ha land I suppose - people suggesting pharmaceutics they have no clue about and even placing others in potential light of detriment). There is often suggestion that nahhh man - "Nolva isn't toxic to the liver if I'm only using it for PCT." What a load of crap - this is a comment for people that don't understand either steady-states and/or various Nolva metabolites which are very much so well-described. The people that have gotten those "long-term" hepatotoxic sides normally dose at 20mg too btw (seeing an issue already?).



At best, if you are going to use it (Lord knows, I can't prevent you and people feel the "just in case status" is a good way to run a pharmaceutic element, which couldn't be further from the truth and set you up for some interesting long-term effects, place you in detriment with GH and subsequent IGF-1 levels at a time when you are attempting to recover should any hormonal disarray have occured - but what do I know?),





D_
Click to expand...


Here's Voodoo's Bloodwork:

Voodoo said:
So Im just going to post everything I got on my blood work here. Im just going to write everything I see even though part of it is a STD test..



In red are the values HIGHER THAN NORMAL keep in mind I was currently taking creatine/incarante when these tests were performed at the beginning of my between cycle period after PCT (4/12/07)



Micah - Voodoo



HEP. B SURFACE AB. >150.0 mIU/ml

TESTOSTERONE, FREE 11.0 pg/ml (6-30)

HIV-1/HIV-2 AB (EIA)

HSV IGG AB 1&2 TYPE1@DETAIL TYPE2@DETAIL

HEP.B CORE ANTIBODY - NEGATIVE

HEPATITIS C ANTIBODY - NEGATIVE

HEP. B SURFACE AG NEGATIVE



TESTOS. BIOAVA&SHBG

SHBG: 21

Testosterone: 235

Reference range: 400 to 1080

Unit: ng/dL

testosteron@ 144.4

Testosterone: 50.7

Reference range: 47.0 to 244.0

Unit: pg/mL

To convert to pmol/L multiply pg/mL by 3.47 The concentration of Free and Bioava



COMP. METABOLIC PAN

CREAT 1.5 H mg/dl (0.5-1.2)

NA 140 mEq/L (136-145)

CL 104 mEq/L (98-107)

CALCIUM 9.1 mg/dl (8.1-10.5)

ALB 4.3 g/dl (3.4-5.0)

SGOT 46 H U/L (15-37)

ALK 99 U/L (50-136)

GFR NON AFRI: >60

GFR AFRICAN: >60

BUN 19 mg/dl (7-26)

GLUCOSE 97 mg/dl (70-110)

K 3.6 mEq/L (3.5-5.1)

TCO2 26 mEq/L (21-32)

TP 7.0 g/dL (6.1-8.0)

TBLIX 0.7 mg/dL (0-1.0)

SGPT 94 H U/L (30-65)



TSH(3RD GEN) 0.593 uIU/mL(0.35)

THYROXINE, FREE 1.17 ng/dL (0.89-1.76)

LH LEVEL 3.2 mIU/mL

FSH 2.7 mIU/ml (1.4-18.1)

CBC SCREEN w/AUTD

WBC 7.9 K/cumm (4.5-11.0)

HGB 15.7 g/dL (13.9-18.0)

MCV 88.3 cu.micr (80.0-97)

MCHC 34.3 g/dL (31.0-37.0)

PLT 197 K/cumm (130-400)

LYM% 30.4 % (14.6-41.0)

EOS% 1.3 % (0.0-5.6)

NEU 4.8 K/cumm (1.5-8.5)

MONO 0.5 K/cumm (0.2-0.8)

BASO 0.0 K/cumm (0.0-0.2)

RBC 5.19 M/cumm (4.30-5.90)

HCT 45.8 % (39.0-55.0)

MCH 30.3 pg (26.0-34.0)

RDW 12.9 (11.5-14.5)

NEU% 61.3 % (45.7-76.1)

MONO% 6.7 % (4.0-12.4)

BASO% 0.3 %(0.0-1.2)

LYM 2.4 K/cumm (1.0-4.8)

EOS 0.1 K/cumm (0.0-0.7)

NRBC/100 WBC 0.0
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top