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28 year old, joint pain, low test

Reach

New member
Hey guys, obviously I'm new to this forum, though I've been lurking for a while trying to find some solid information that might help me. I've come across some information, but still need guidance from some of you that know this stuff well.

I guess to start with general statistics, I'm a 28 year old male, 6'2, 183 pounds currently. For the last 5 years I've been on a steady 5-6 day week work out program. I've always had joint pain but at the start I figured you push through it, pay your dues and it goes away. Just part of the process. But the pain has never relented. I feel like an old man and doctors have been of no assistance. Some of the guys in my gym mentioned that I should go get a full blood panel to check my hormone levels. Sure enough... my test seems to me on the low end. I can give a full break down of everything if desired, but the very cursory information is as follows.

I had an initial sample collected on June 3rd.

My levels were

Total T : 474 ng/dl
Free T : 6.64 ng/dl

I had a second sample collected August 11th

Total T : 362
Free T : 3.84

I have all the other levels available as well as the full reports if any thing else is worth mentioning.

The doctor told me everything was fine at those levels... but for some reason I felt that as much as I work out, as clean as I eat, and the fact that I am 28, being "on the low end" of a hormone scale that includes 80 year old men... this might be problematic.

My goal in coming to you guys is not to get big, it's to fix the pain I experience on a daily basis. What you guys do is a science, and I find that a general medicine doctors level of knowledge is... disturbingly shallow...

Is there any merit to the idea that hormonal deficiency could be responsible for my abnormal joint issues at this age? Mind you, I've always felt creaky since starting training. I've scanned these forums and seen mixed information on various different synthetics having a positive impact on tendon and ligament structure, and a few of the guys at my gym who have been using anabolic for years mentioned Nandrolone and Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin being potentially useful for me.

My situation is frustrating, intimidating and scary all at the same time. It seems like the medical "professionals" are completely blind on diagnosing on a case by case basis. If you are in the "norm" between 20-80 year old men, you're fine in their eyes. Write everyone the same script for the same problem. These are the same people that after poisoning me with Cipro (story for later in the thread) suggested that I take cortisol shots... which if you spend ten minutes researching Cipro you know the LAST thing you should take in case of tendon pain due to the drug are corticosteroids.

Thanks in advance for any information or articles you can turn me on to for this. I'm really at a loss here as to how to proceed.
 
Reach said:
Hey guys, obviously I'm new to this forum, though I've been lurking for a while trying to find some solid information that might help me. I've come across some information, but still need guidance from some of you that know this stuff well.

I guess to start with general statistics, I'm a 28 year old male, 6'2, 183 pounds currently. For the last 5 years I've been on a steady 5-6 day week work out program. I've always had joint pain but at the start I figured you push through it, pay your dues and it goes away. Just part of the process. But the pain has never relented. I feel like an old man and doctors have been of no assistance. Some of the guys in my gym mentioned that I should go get a full blood panel to check my hormone levels. Sure enough... my test seems to me on the low end. I can give a full break down of everything if desired, but the very cursory information is as follows.

I had an initial sample collected on June 3rd.

My levels were

Total T : 474 ng/dl
Free T : 6.64 ng/dl

I had a second sample collected August 11th

Total T : 362
Free T : 3.84

I have all the other levels available as well as the full reports if any thing else is worth mentioning.

The doctor told me everything was fine at those levels... but for some reason I felt that as much as I work out, as clean as I eat, and the fact that I am 28, being "on the low end" of a hormone scale that includes 80 year old men... this might be problematic.

My goal in coming to you guys is not to get big, it's to fix the pain I experience on a daily basis. What you guys do is a science, and I find that a general medicine doctors level of knowledge is... disturbingly shallow...

Is there any merit to the idea that hormonal deficiency could be responsible for my abnormal joint issues at this age? Mind you, I've always felt creaky since starting training. I've scanned these forums and seen mixed information on various different synthetics having a positive impact on tendon and ligament structure, and a few of the guys at my gym who have been using anabolic for years mentioned Nandrolone and Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin being potentially useful for me.

My situation is frustrating, intimidating and scary all at the same time. It seems like the medical "professionals" are completely blind on diagnosing on a case by case basis. If you are in the "norm" between 20-80 year old men, you're fine in their eyes. Write everyone the same script for the same problem. These are the same people that after poisoning me with Cipro (story for later in the thread) suggested that I take cortisol shots... which if you spend ten minutes researching Cipro you know the LAST thing you should take in case of tendon pain due to the drug are corticosteroids.

Thanks in advance for any information or articles you can turn me on to for this. I'm really at a loss here as to how to proceed.
Click to expand...


First thing- go to an endocrinologist they specialize in hormones- General Practitioners can suck it when it comes to hormonal levels


second thing- have you ever used any anabolics thus perhaps stunting your own testosterone production?

Dont use HCG- it is beneficial while ON CYCLE OF ANABOLICS! If you use it long term damage can be done


go see an endo take him your blood work- im 22 my test levels where at like 545- but in the 300's seems pretty low- chances are he will prescribe TRT or testosterone replacement therapy

or you could order some clomid and try to jump start your HPTA so it will produce more test naturally- it may or may not work
 
Thanks for the reply.

I agree with you on the GP sentiment. He just seemed to think that since nothing on the paper was red, I was good to go.

I've never used any kind of anabolic etc. I've used supplements before, but avoided anything with the "prohormone" label. I was always been pretty ectomorphic growing up and still consider myself a hard gainer... so I think it's just a natural condition... or I took one too many shots to the crotch over the years =/

I def want to make use of a doctor to advise me, the problem is I live in south florida. I don't know anyone reputable in the area. The anti aging center places to me seem like ways to circumvent laws on selling anabolics... so since their business is selling the dope, I dunno that I trust them to diagnose properly.

When I've gone to specialists in the area about my sore shoulders, knees etc they seem like their only experience is with old golfers... not young(er. Guess I'm not that young anymore) active individuals. Just "rest it for 6 weeks", "stretch more", and "cortisone.". I've tried A and B... didn't ever accept C as I figured it was just a temporary fix that would end up doing more damage in the long run.

Thanks again, I'll try to research endo guys here, but god it's impossible to know who really knows their ish.
 
Are you still pushing the weights 5-6 days/wk. Are you consistently lifting heavy and explosively? If so, your problems could be related to overtraining. Even in your 20's it is quite possible to push your body further than it can go. Chronically high cortisol from overtraining seems to be able to cause problems.

Otherwise there are some knowledgeable peeps in the male anti-aging medicine section. Can post up your lab results there and see what people say.
 
You know.. Estrogen is the hormone that helps in keeping joints mobile and lubricated. What were your estrogen levels at? Low test can often times = Low estrogen as well in which case your joint problems would make complete sense.

When body builders use AI (Aromatase Inhibitors) to lower their estrogen levels after taking aromatizing steroids like testosterone, they can experience joint pain that sounds similar to yours.
 
it seams that most doctors want to treat the symptoms rather that the problem. mine told me to keep useing joint support supps but its been 2 yrs of use and still the debilitateing knee and wrist pain i have always had. E2 is normal yada yada yada. im also looking for the fix. best of luck man and i hope you are successful!
 
Get on TRT. I have been on it since 2006, age 39. I have yet to encounter a doctor that isn't willing to write the script. I take 100mg of Test Cyp. Every five days. My level went from the 300's to over 775 on average. Just find a doctor and TELL him what you want . He should be fine with it as long as you stay under or around 1,000.
 
sourcenyne said:
You know.. Estrogen is the hormone that helps in keeping joints mobile and lubricated. What were your estrogen levels at? Low test can often times = Low estrogen as well in which case your joint problems would make complete sense.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I thought also. Your joint pain is probably because your estrogen levels are real low. Which would make sense if you have low test. Have you ever tried a natural test booster? I'd also consider trying to get a hold of a SERM such as clomid or toremifene. If you're not willing to go that route you'll have to go to a endocrinologist.
 
Ahhh.

Nitrox - I'll scan the lab work into my comp tomorrow and post it up in that section, if for whatever reason you want to follow along. Overtraining is a good candidate, but even with time off I haven't ever really fully recouped. Granted my longest duration breaks are about ~10 days. But I feel like if I took 6 weeks to totally weed out overtraining, I'd go bat ****.. and if it didn't work I'd get pretty bummed since it takes me a lot of work to gain weight/strength. I feel like I'd slide back months and months. I know this thinking might be counter productive and illogical but I can't break that mind set.

Source - When I scan them in tomorrow I'll update some of the data on this post. I actually didn't know estrogen worked as a lube for our joints. I did have people say the GH and test repair tissue... but never heard anything about estrogen being critical to function. Seems the ol E is useful for something after all =D. Thanks for the info.

Drinkboy - I'll keep you up to date with information I receive and let you know if I find a magic bullet. This sucks so I feel for ya.

Presa - I was always hoping a doctor would give me a list of homework so I could figure out what I want. Sadly that hasn't happened. So all you are taking is a test shot? And you have stable test around 700-800? Any side effects? Is it screwing with your natural endocrine levels in other areas? (...not sure if that is a fair question since if one needed the shot I guess we're already "screwy")

Cass - I've avoided "supplement" style test boosters due to the lack of regulation we hear about so often. I feel like if I am going to go the hormone boost road for recovery purposes, there seems to be far more testing, studies and reports on the pharmaceutical route. Granted, pharmaceuticals are far from perfect, but seems to be more information on specific products. I know there must be a thousand posts about Clomid on here. I've yet to come across toremifene. I'll hit the search tomorrow (almost freakin 2 AM). Any particularly useful guides/threads you can suggest in addition?

Thanks everyone.
 
it really sounds like ur suffering from low test levels brasif- which could mean(probably dose) TRT- which is a good thing if u have these symptoms- keep me posted as well- interested to see ur progress
 
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