21 YO Low T Hair is flying off my head! Help!

[Joejoebaggins]

That's a great idea about the rags.

I'm confused about "cycling" if I went on hcg i would stay on it right?

Also .25mg arimidex E4D is this a good idea? Should i save it for when i start the hcg?

All my labs are from quest.

 

[Joejoebaggins]

So another twist in the long hormonal maze...

Turns out according to my saliva test my adrenals are functioning fine.


DHEA-Saliva 1730.9 (8am) 100-1200
526.7 (6pm) 250-450

Cortisol

12.5 (8am) Optimal Range 7 AM: 7.0 - 10 Observed Range 7 AM;8.0 - 15
5.4 (12pm) Optimal Range 12 PM: 3.0 - 8 Observed Range 12 PM; 3.0 - 7.0
3.9 (6pm) Optimal Range 5 PM: 2.0 - 4.0 Observed Range 12 PM; 2.0 - 4.0
4.4 (11pm) Optimal Range 10 PM: <1.5 Observed Range 10 PM; <1.5

Looks like i actually have high cortisol at night time. So the real conundrum is how do i slowly taper down and stop Cortef? I'm guessing it's a bad idea to stop cold turkey. What do you guys think?

Also, i might have messed up the test a little, because i was the day i took the adrenal test i had a day off and was pretty relaxed...

I'm seeing my doc tomorrow and hopefully I'll start hCG. I guess i'll just keep upping the Armour for now?

 

[Joejoebaggins]

Plymouth, Jansz

I started a new protocol that my doctor advised.

• 50mg Oral Pregnenolone (topical was a tad too expensive)
  [*]50mg DHEA
  [*]Test Cyp Injection Weekly (i fill the syringe up the 1ml syringe to 2.5... anyone know how much that is?)
  [*]0.25ml SQ hCG every 6 & 7th day

I'm REALLY new to this so hold my hand

I'm also approaching 2 1/2 grains with my Armour.

Also i stored the UN-constituted hCG in the fridge by accident... It's still usable correct?

Should i wait for my doctor to constitute the hCG or should i attempt it?

Almost immediately i have noticed that my dribbling urine has gotten about ten times better which is nice. I started to do heavy cardio as well, so maybe that helped

 

[JanSz]

Plymouth, Jansz

I started a new protocol that my doctor advised.

• 50mg Oral Pregnenolone (topical was a tad too expensive)
  [*]50mg DHEA
  [*]Test Cyp Injection Weekly (i fill the syringe up the 1ml syringe to 2.5... anyone know how much that is?)
  [*]0.25ml SQ hCG every 6 & 7th day

I'm REALLY new to this so hold my hand

I'm also approaching 2 1/2 grains with my Armour.

Also i stored the UN-constituted hCG in the fridge by accident... It's still usable correct?

Should i wait for my doctor to constitute the hCG or should i attempt it?

Almost immediately i have noticed that my dribbling urine has gotten about ten times better which is nice. I started to do heavy cardio as well, so maybe that helped

Compounded pregnenolone cream 100mg/1gram, 30 grams $16
use 2grams/day
Ask your doctor to call womensinternational Phone: 800. 279. 5708 , with the script. They will send you product and bill to your address.

What is this with your Testosterone injections??
You have
SHBG 50 (7 - 44 nmol/L)
DHT <6 (25 - 75 ng/dL)
I told you before you need 3 packs of Androgel to make this work, assuming this will work.

If you going for T injections
#1 you need a lot of T (probably 200mg/week or more)(you are over the chart)
#2 you will still need DHT cream because T injections do not raise DHT.

I think there is a product that steroid users are using, basically DHT in shots, somebody please fill in with help.

Whatewer you do with your T injections, make it at e3D schedule.

 

[Joejoebaggins]

Compounded pregnenolone cream 100mg/1gram, 30 grams $16
use 2grams/day
Ask your doctor to call womensinternational Phone: 800. 279. 5708 , with the script. They will send you product and bill to your address.

What is this with your Testosterone injections??
You have
SHBG 50 (7 - 44 nmol/L)
DHT <6 (25 - 75 ng/dL)
I told you before you need 3 packs of Androgel to make this work, assuming this will work.

If you going for T injections
#1 you need a lot of T (probably 200mg/week or more)(you are over the chart)
#2 you will still need DHT cream because T injections do not raise DHT.

I think there is a product that steroid users are using, basically DHT in shots, somebody please fill in with help.

Whatewer you do with your T injections, make it at e3D schedule.

......... I asked my doctor and he told me the T injections would take care of the DHT.......................

This sucks so bad... He told me androgel was far too expensive and this was a better route, I'm not as smart as you guys on this so sometimes i just go with his advice... Now I'm stuck with a ton of T shots and hCG.

Will DHEA and Preg help the DHT situation at all? Even if they're not topical?

I'm not trying to be a pain, this stuff sometimes just gets crazy confusing.

Is there any place to get androgel cheap? Or some other method of boosting DHT without breaking the bank?

 

[MarkLA]

Is there any place to get androgel cheap? Or some other method of boosting DHT without breaking the bank?

You can get compounded cream or gel from a compounding pharmacy. This isn't brand name androgel, but it's T in a cream or gel base and should have the same effect.

JansZ - shouldn't he see at least some conversion of T to DHT? I was under the impression that this does occur in other places besides the skin..

Mark

 

[Joejoebaggins]

You can get compounded cream or gel from a compounding pharmacy. This isn't brand name androgel, but it's T in a cream or gel base and should have the same effect.

JansZ - shouldn't he see at least some conversion of T to DHT? I was under the impression that this does occur in other places besides the skin..

Mark

Thanks for your reply Mark,

I know a 30 day supply of Androgel is $200+... Do you happen to know the price range of compounded T?

 

[JanSz]

Thanks for your reply Mark,

I know a 30 day supply of Androgel is $200+... Do you happen to know the price range of compounded T?

I was using compounded Tcream, also from womensinternational, rather inexpensive, forgot the $$$.
I was using 100mg/1gram density, dose 1gram/day.
So it was 10% cream, the Androgel is 1%.
1gram of that cream contained the same amount of testosterone as 10grams (2 packets) of Androgel.
I got less than haf response on T cream in Testosterone and DHT levels.

I think that you may have to revisit the DHT and cream/gell issue.
Right now you have a stack of injectable testosterone.
That should raise some DHT even if not as much transdermals would.

With your SHGB=50, use 200mg/week dose.
That is rather large dose for what other people are using.
Higher doses of T should put pressure on SHBG and eventually make it lower. You will have to blood test and adjust as need.

Divide your weekly dose, use E3D schedule.
200/2007*3=0.43cc=43 units on insuline syringe

So you reach your stable levels quicker use this schedule for t shots to ramp up:
Day1- 2.5dose
Day2- 1dose
Day3- no shots
Day4- 1dose
Day5- no shots
Day6- no shots
Day7- 1dose
Day8- continue E3D schedule


about HCG you are going to get different advice, I will give you what I do:
500iu per shot at the same sitting as T shots, so it is also on E3D schedule.

you can also use 250iu shots and do them in the two days between T shots, admittedly tad better system, I go for convenience.

Whatewer makes you happy.

Use 30ga 1/2" long needle, subQ around navel.

You are going to get high T levels in blood (because you have this high SHBG), that same SHBG is binding your Estradiol.

You have ESTRADIOL 46 (20 - 75 pg/mL)

At first do not use any Arimidex, but keep it handy.

Everybody should, but specially you would benefit from good tests of your FreeT and FreeE2 levels.

After 2 months do at least this (blood):
DHEA sulfate
Prolactin
Progesterone, LC/MS/MS
Pregnenolone
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Estrogens, Fractionated, LC/MS/MS (36742X)
Estrogen, Total, Serum (439X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)

urine
EstroEssence
Genova Diagnostics EstroEssence
====================================
Supplements to get SHBG down and 2/16 under control.
---------------------------------
The upper right chart should convince you to stay on E3D schedule, this is where the highest DHT is (and everything else, high and stable).

 

[MarkLA]

Thanks for your reply Mark,

I know a 30 day supply of Androgel is $200+... Do you happen to know the price range of compounded T?

I think it's about $60/month.

As long as you have the test injectable, you might just try that and see how you do. It seems that everyone has a unique response. Maybe your DHT will be fine?

 

[JanSz]

dr Marianco on SHBG
sorry no link
==========================================
Focusing on increasing SHBG is like treating a lab value rather than treating a patient.

The question I would have for a person with low SHBG is: What problems does one have?

Is it low libido, high blood pressure, heart attack risk, depression, anxiety, lack of energy, impaired concentration, urinary frequency, gynecomastia, hot flashes, etc.?

By identifying one's problems, it will be easier to see whether or not SHBG level contributes to the problem.

SHBG has signaling properties of its own. It has its own receptors on cell membranes. When testosterone or estrogens are bound to SHBG, it can bind to its receptors and send its message to the cell. What happens afterwards is not clear. It may be related to the formation of more hormone receptors - but that is speculation at this point.

SHBG helps prolong the duration of action of testosterone, DHT, and estrogens. Low SHBG will increase the amount of free hormone.

Swings in hormone level may occur when low SHBG is present as destruction of the hormone is accelerated by having high free levels. This may cause problems experienced during testosterone replacement. For example, if estrogen is more quickly destroyed/metabolized and levels drop more quickly, one can get hot flashes or anxiety or hypertension, etc. If testosterone levels fluctuate from high to low, depression can occur as the day progresses.

SHBG is made in the liver in response to levels of many hormones:
1. Increasing Testosterone reduces SHBG
2. Increasing DHT lowers SHBG
3. Increasing DHEA lowers SHBG
4. Increasing Growth Hormone lowers SHBG
5. Increasing Insulin lowers SHBG
6. Increasing Estrogen increases SHBG
7. Increasing Thyroid Hormone increases SHBG

The SHBG level is determine by the balance of the hormone levels.

Given one's assumed goals in TRT (high libido, good energy, etc.), it may be difficult to increase SHBG without causing problems since SHBG is determine by a balance of hormones.

For example, having high Testosterone and high DHEA is not a situation where SHBG is going to be high without corresponding problems with estrogen or thyroid.

If anything, SHBG should be most often viewed as an indicator of a problem that needs to be solved - rather than as a problem itself.

For example, SHBG is most commonly an indicator of high insulin levels - i.e. insulin resistance or diabetes. It would be then far more important to address insulin resistance or diabetes in treatment than to focus on SHBG.

If low thyroid is a factor in low SHBG, addressing hypothyroidism is far more important.

If low estradiol is a factor in low SHBG, addressing this is more important.

If the low SHBG itself is a problem because it causes large swings in hormone levels, then working around this by achieving more stable hormone levels is indicated.

More frequent dosing of testosterone may be required to stabilize levels. With testosterone cypionate or enanthate injections, dosing twice a week would be better than once a week.

If frequent dosing of testosterone cannot be achieved with transdermals or injections, then a constant dose solution may be needed. This includes testosterone patches, the buccal system, or testosterone pellet insertions. Testosterone pellet insertions may be viewed as fairly drastic since it involves regular minor surgical procedures, but does give the most stable levels - so is a viable solution for the men with problems due to highly variable hormone levels resulting from low SHBG.

If one suspects swings in hormone levels as a cause of problems, one can look for the swings in hormone levels by obtaining a peak and trough level of the hormones (e.g. total testosterone, estradiol, DHT, etc.). For testosterone injections, this is a level about 24-48 hours after an injection and a level just before the next injection. One can also obtain a midpoint level to fill out the level curve.
__________________

 

[superone]

I dont want to hijack this thread, but i think i have adrenal and thryoid problems, as i have almost every symptom of adrenal fatigue.


But i live in Canada, and my Doctor wont test me for all these different hormones. He's a quack and its hard to get real comprehensive testing done in Canada. My doctor would only test my DHEA-S, and it was at 2.8 and the referance range is 7.6-17.4



Is there a kit i can order online or something, to test these at home and mail my results in to a lab or something?



I want to test for everything possible, like all the sex hormones, adrenal stuff, thyroid, anti-diuretic hormones,ect.



Basically i used some stimulants a couple months back, and i crashed big time after i stopped, got bad anxiety,ect, and now i have a puffy bloated face, im tired all the time with no natural energy, lowered sex drive, cravings, getting colds all the time, and i gained a tiny bit of fat on my lower abs only. Ive always been naturally lean and muscular fluctuating from 8-12% body fat, and ive havent changed my diet or lifesyle at all in the past 6 years.


Im 23 years old.


Any help would be really appeciated.


Thanks.

 

[Joejoebaggins]

I was using compounded Tcream, also from womensinternational, rather inexpensive, forgot the $$$.
I was using 100mg/1gram density, dose 1gram/day.
So it was 10% cream, the Androgel is 1%.
1gram of that cream contained the same amount of testosterone as 10grams (2 packets) of Androgel.
I got less than haf response on T cream in Testosterone and DHT levels.

I think that you may have to revisit the DHT and cream/gell issue.
Right now you have a stack of injectable testosterone.
That should raise some DHT even if not as much transdermals would.

With your SHGB=50, use 200mg/week dose.
That is rather large dose for what other people are using.
Higher doses of T should put pressure on SHBG and eventually make it lower. You will have to blood test and adjust as need.

Divide your weekly dose, use E3D schedule.
200/2007*3=0.43cc=43 units on insuline syringe
I'm confused on the math, where did the 2007 come from? and the 3 is for E3D? .43 on a 1ml syringe would be 4.3 correct?

So you reach your stable levels quicker use this schedule for t shots to ramp up:
Day1- 2.5dose
Day2- 1dose
Day3- no shots
Day4- 1dose
Day5- no shots
Day6- no shots
Day7- 1dose
Day8- continue E3D schedule

2.5 dose? Are you talking about where it relates on a 1ml syringe? or 2 and 1/2 doses of .43cc?

Jansz thank you so much for your very well thought out plan. I truly appreciate it.

I'm seeing my doctor and Monday and I'll present him with everything and see what he sais.

Since i fill my 1ml syringe up to 2.5 with test i think i remember the nurse saying it was 50mg...

If anyone has any threads on measuring and so on, i could really benefit from them as I am clueless :blink:

 

[JanSz]

I dont want to hijack this thread, but i think i have adrenal and thryoid problems, as i have almost every symptom of adrenal fatigue.


But i live in Canada, and my Doctor wont test me for all these different hormones. He's a quack and its hard to get real comprehensive testing done in Canada. My doctor would only test my DHEA-S, and it was at 2.8 and the referance range is 7.6-17.4



Is there a kit i can order online or something, to test these at home and mail my results in to a lab or something?



I want to test for everything possible, like all the sex hormones, adrenal stuff, thyroid, anti-diuretic hormones,ect.



Basically i used some stimulants a couple months back, and i crashed big time after i stopped, got bad anxiety,ect, and now i have a puffy bloated face, im tired all the time with no natural energy, lowered sex drive, cravings, getting colds all the time, and i gained a tiny bit of fat on my lower abs only. Ive always been naturally lean and muscular fluctuating from 8-12% body fat, and ive havent changed my diet or lifesyle at all in the past 6 years.


Im 23 years old.


Any help would be really appeciated.


Thanks.

You can buy most of the scripts for the testing from LEF.org
The testing is done at LabCorp.
To locate nearest blood drawing location:
LabCorp Patient Service Center Locator
Welcome to USA (land of "bad" medical care).
Some here would like to follow Canada's health care system.
Hope that all of them develop low T and low SHBG and then we will talk.
===================================================
You may have adrenal fatigue.
You may want to get doc to give you script for Cortef, use up to 30mg/day in divided dose.
Make sure you do rampup you dose slowly.
If you cant get the script, try Isocort.
Isocort
Stop The Thyroid Madness » Isocort
VitaminMD - Search Results

If using Isocort or Cortef makes difference how you feel, stop and make good investigation of your adrenal Fatigue.
Or stay on 30mg/day for 6 months to a year then try to wean out of it.

 

[superone]

Hi JanSz,


Thanks a lot for your help i appreciate it.


Just wanted to ask you a few questions if you dont mind.



What is the best method to test for cortisol levels?


And do you know if my symptoms are from high cortisol or low cortisol?

- puffy face
- fatigue, especially in the monring
- mild depression
- poor immine system with frequent colds, for example for the past 2 weeks in a row, i worked heavy construction on Saturday, and i got a cold both times very soon after i was finished the same day.
- mildly blood shot eyes
- the veins under my eyes are more visable and pronounced
- a little fat gain, seems like mabye a little on the face, and a little bit on my lower abs.
- craving for salty and sugary foods sometimes
- sex drive was decreased, but im taking something for that that is helping with that.
- trouble sleeping at night.
- very low DHEA-S


What do you think?


I have a big appetite, so i dont know what that has to do with anything.


Is Cortef for high or low costisol levels?


Last question of the thread i promise, and sorry for interrupting.



Thanks a lot.

 

[Joejoebaggins]

Hi JanSz,


Thanks a lot for your help i appreciate it.


Just wanted to ask you a few questions if you dont mind.



What is the best method to test for cortisol levels?


And do you know if my symptoms are from high cortisol or low cortisol?

- puffy face
- fatigue, especially in the monring
- mild depression
- poor immine system with frequent colds, for example for the past 2 weeks in a row, i worked heavy construction on Saturday, and i got a cold both times very soon after i was finished the same day.
- mildly blood shot eyes
- the veins under my eyes are more visable and pronounced
- a little fat gain, seems like mabye a little on the face, and a little bit on my lower abs.
- craving for salty and sugary foods sometimes
- sex drive was decreased, but im taking something for that that is helping with that.
- trouble sleeping at night.
- very low DHEA-S


What do you think?


I have a big appetite, so i dont know what that has to do with anything.


Is Cortef for high or low costisol levels?



Thanks a lot.

Sounds like low cortisol.

Here is a link that is extremely helpful:
Stop The Thyroid Madness :: View topic - *** Adrenal FAQ's ***

To test cortisol you need a home saliva test you can get one here:
Canary Club : Environment and Health : Home saliva testing - Diagnos-Techs

If you indeed have low cortisol you'll need a doc to perscribe you cortef which you will have to slowly take till you get to 20mg. Those links should cover everything else.

Good luck!

 

[JanSz]

Hi JanSz,


Thanks a lot for your help i appreciate it.


Just wanted to ask you a few questions if you dont mind.



What is the best method to test for cortisol levels?


And do you know if my symptoms are from high cortisol or low cortisol?

- puffy face
- fatigue, especially in the monring
- mild depression
- poor immine system with frequent colds, for example for the past 2 weeks in a row, i worked heavy construction on Saturday, and i got a cold both times very soon after i was finished the same day.
- mildly blood shot eyes
- the veins under my eyes are more visable and pronounced
- a little fat gain, seems like mabye a little on the face, and a little bit on my lower abs.
- craving for salty and sugary foods sometimes
- sex drive was decreased, but im taking something for that that is helping with that.
- trouble sleeping at night.
- very low DHEA-S


What do you think?


I have a big appetite, so i dont know what that has to do with anything.


Is Cortef for high or low costisol levels?


Last question of the thread i promise, and sorry for interrupting.



Thanks a lot.

You have got good answer from Joejoebaggins.

You can start you own thread and ask questions there.

 

[superone]

Thanks a lot guys i really appreciate the help, and i hope you solve your problems Joe!

 

[Joejoebaggins]

Jansz,

Can you clear this up for me real fast?

I think i've figured out that my doc prescribed me 100mg of Test Cyp.

So i need to think of a couple of different out comes.

If he kicks it up to 200mg I'll follow your directions. If he doesn't I split up the 100mg in half and do it 50mg E3D?

Can you clearify the ramp up?

(if my dose was bumped to 200mg/ a week how much would i be doing each day?)

Day1-2.5dose (how many mg?)
Day2-1dose
Day3-no shots
Day4-1dose
Day5-no shots
Day6-noshots
Day7-1dose
continue E3D schedule


Thanks!

 

[JanSz]

Jansz,

Can you clear this up for me real fast?

I think i've figured out that my doc prescribed me 100mg of Test Cyp.

So i need to think of a couple of different out comes.

If he kicks it up to 200mg I'll follow your directions. If he doesn't I split up the 100mg in half and do it 50mg E3D?

Can you clearify the ramp up?

(if my dose was bumped to 200mg/ a week how much would i be doing each day?)

Day1-2.5dose (how many mg?)
Day2-1dose
Day3-no shots
Day4-1dose
Day5-no shots
Day6-noshots
Day7-1dose
continue E3D schedule


Thanks!

=========================================
I wrote previously:
Divide your weekly dose, use E3D schedule.
200/2007*3=0.43cc=43 units on insuline syringe
-----
There was a typo, should be:
200/200/7*3=0.43cc=43 units on insuline syringe
=========================================


You,Joejoebaggins, ask:
I'm confused on the math, where did the 2007 come from? and the 3 is for E3D? .43 on a 1ml syringe would be 4.3 correct?
2007 was a typo, explained above. (missing divisiom sign)(/)
results unchanged.
On any size of insuline syringe the markings are called units.
100units=1cc
50units=0.5cc
43units=0.43cc

Abbreviations are used to specify frequency of shots.
E3D=every three days
say one shot on day#1, two days without shots, day#3 next shot.
==============================================

I wrote:
So you reach your stable levels quicker use this schedule for t shots to ramp up:
Day1- 2.5dose
Day2- 1dose
Day3- no shots
Day4- 1dose
Day5- no shots
Day6- no shots
Day7- 1dose
Day8- continue E3D schedule
Then You,Joejoebaggins, ask:
2.5 dose? Are you talking about where it relates on a 1ml syringe? or 2 and 1/2 doses of .43cc?
-------------------
The number "2.5" mean that you have to take larger shot on Day#1.
I calculated your normal dose at 0.43cc
so on day one you take:
2.5*0.43=1.075cc
=============================================
When measuring Testosterone dose keep in mind the following:
Density of testosterone, usually 200mg/ml, but other densities exist.

The dose is measured over standard time span. We use average weekly dose.

If one is doing shots once a week there is no need for calculation, weekly and average weekly are the same.

If one is spreading his shots equally in time and doing them twice weekly, the average weekly = 2x each shot

If one is doing E3D, once every three days, shots
the math is

A=desired weekly dose (mg/week)
B=Testosterone density (mg/mL)
C=schedule=E3D=3days
D=Average time span (week)=7days
E=calculated individual dose (mL)
F=calculated individual dose (units on insuline syringe)

E=A/B/D*C

F=E*100
-----
Note, if one is doing say, E2D dosing, C=2days
===========================================

 

[Joejoebaggins]

=========================================
I wrote previously:
Divide your weekly dose, use E3D schedule.
200/2007*3=0.43cc=43 units on insuline syringe
-----
There was a typo, should be:
200/200/7*3=0.43cc=43 units on insuline syringe
=========================================


You,Joejoebaggins, ask:
I'm confused on the math, where did the 2007 come from? and the 3 is for E3D? .43 on a 1ml syringe would be 4.3 correct?
2007 was a typo, explained above. (missing divisiom sign)(/)
results unchanged.
On any size of insuline syringe the markings are called units.
100units=1cc
50units=0.5cc
43units=0.43cc

Abbreviations are used to specify frequency of shots.
E3D=every three days
say one shot on day#1, two days without shots, day#3 next shot.
==============================================

I wrote:
So you reach your stable levels quicker use this schedule for t shots to ramp up:
Day1- 2.5dose
Day2- 1dose
Day3- no shots
Day4- 1dose
Day5- no shots
Day6- no shots
Day7- 1dose
Day8- continue E3D schedule
Then You,Joejoebaggins, ask:
2.5 dose? Are you talking about where it relates on a 1ml syringe? or 2 and 1/2 doses of .43cc?
-------------------
The number "2.5" mean that you have to take larger shot on Day#1.
I calculated your normal dose at 0.43cc
so on day one you take:
2.5*0.43=1.075cc
=============================================
When measuring Testosterone dose keep in mind the following:
Density of testosterone, usually 200mg/ml, but other densities exist.

The dose is measured over standard time span. We use average weekly dose.

If one is doing shots once a week there is no need for calculation, weekly and average weekly are the same.

If one is spreading his shots equally in time and doing them twice weekly, the average weekly = 2x each shot

If one is doing E3D, once every three days, shots
the math is

A=desired weekly dose (mg/week)
B=Testosterone density (mg/mL)
C=schedule=E3D=3days
D=Average time span (week)=7days
E=calculated individual dose (mL)
F=calculated individual dose (units on insuline syringe)

E=A/B/D*C

F=E*100
-----
Note, if one is doing say, E2D dosing, C=2days
===========================================

Jansz you are my hero. Thank yo so much for clearing that up for me.

 

[JanSz]

Jansz you are my hero. Thank yo so much for clearing that up for me.

You are welcome.

Just work on your doctor, you really have very high SHBG
and not only you need large size testosterone dose, and supplements known to reduce SHBG,
but look around, do some fishing, why your SHBG is so high.

You may want to do more complete blood test.

also

I just added some (optional) tests to my post #44.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

You may want to look at
(GDX - Metabolic Analysis Profile) including (GDX - Cellular Energy Profile)

and

Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis (CDSA) 2.0

 

[superone]

Unleashed from protein factory is supposed to work at lowering SHBG, you may want to check it out.


http://proteinfactory.com/shop/product.php?productid=109&cat=0&page=1

 

[JanSz]

Unleashed from protein factory is supposed to work at lowering SHBG, you may want to check it out.


http://proteinfactory.com/shop/product.php?productid=109&cat=0&page=1

From description of it, the product is focused on getting SHBG down.

Sounds good for someone who badly need to lower SHBG.

 

[Joejoebaggins]

While my SHBG is extremely high on that blood test I'm thinking it might be because of my previous militant vegan/raw food diet.

I hadn't had full fledged meat protein in MONTHS. I was living tons of fiber and carbohydrates very low calories as well.

The blood test was taken less than a week after i stopped this way of eating.

Perhaps my clean moderate protein, moderate/low carb, high good fat way of eating has addressed my SHBG.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/incledon/diet-01.htm

However, total T is not that big of a deal. The more important measure is the bioactive fraction of T. (Earlier in the overview of the HPT Axis, it was mentioned that SHBG-bound T is not considered bioactive, while the other fractions of T are). While subjects followed the high protein diet, their total T levels were 28% lower than on the higher CHO diet (15). This is important because T decreased in all seven subjects, although the magnitudes of the decrease ranged from 10 to 93%. For the same seven subjects, their SHBG levels decreased about 39% with a range from 19 to 64%. Looking at this data gives the impression that the actual bioactivity of T was higher while the subjects were on a high protein diet. SHBG-bound T and fT were not measured, so it is not known for sure. On the surface it appears that a mean decrease of 39% in the SHBG values and only a 28% in the T would leave more T available for binding to tissues. However, if we calculate out the actual changes in the hormones using the data from the study, we see something different. The mean and standard error (M±SE) for T was 371 ± 23 ng/dL. The currently used units in clinical chemistry are nmol/L. Multiplying the mean T by the conversion factor of 0.0347 gives us about 12.9 ± .8 nmol/L. The M±SE SHBG was 23.4 ± 1.6 nmol/L. If we assume that the amount of T bound to SHBG averages 44%, then .44 x 12.9 ± .8 nmol/L gives us 5.7 ± .4 nmol/L of T bound to SHBG. That leaves 7.2 ± .4 nmol/L of T to interact with tissues in the body. However, we don’t know from the data if the amount of SHBG bound T decreased below or increased above the normal 44%, in which case there would be more or less T available to interact with tissues.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/incledon/diet02.htm

Subjects consuming vegetarian diets have demonstrated higher SHBG levels (3, 13), lower T levels (12), and lower levels of available T (3)

 

[Joejoebaggins]

Unleashed from protein factory is supposed to work at lowering SHBG, you may want to check it out.


http://proteinfactory.com/shop/product.php?productid=109&cat=0&page=1

The product sais it does a lot of things... but it doesn't even list the active magic ingredient which lowers SHBG.

 

[JanSz]

The product sais it does a lot of things... but it doesn't even list the active magic ingredient which lowers SHBG.

===========================================
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/archive/index.php/t-84046.html
RippedUp07-12-2004, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by raybravo
taken from mass monsterz :


Supplements that lower SHBG:
=-Proviron
=-GH
=-Avena Sativa Extract/Green oat that contains Avenacosidas-supposedly there is none of this product out on the market that shows that it works.
=-Carao Extract-Theory only-has not been proven yet
=-Urtica dioica aka Stinging nettle
=-Muira Puama
Clomid and Nolvadex increas SHBG levels.
=========================================
http://proteinfactory.com/shop/product.php?productid=109&cat=0&page=1


Unleashed
Supplement Facts

Servings Size 3 capsules
Servings Per Container 30
Avena Sativa (with at least 7% Avenacosides A&B) 500 mgs
Muara Puama: 12:1 active extract 500mgs
Trimethyglycine 1000mgs
Xanthoparmilia Scabrosa: 50mgs
Urtica dioica: 100 mgs
Ashwagandha: Standardized to 1.5%Withanolides 500 mgs
==============================================

 

[plymouth city]

chrysin is a pretty good SHBG reducer

 

[Joejoebaggins]

===========================================
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/archive/index.php/t-84046.html
RippedUp07-12-2004, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by raybravo
taken from mass monsterz :


Supplements that lower SHBG:
=-Proviron
=-GH
=-Avena Sativa Extract/Green oat that contains Avenacosidas-supposedly there is none of this product out on the market that shows that it works.
=-Carao Extract-Theory only-has not been proven yet
=-Urtica dioica aka Stinging nettle
=-Muira Puama
Clomid and Nolvadex increas SHBG levels.
=========================================
http://proteinfactory.com/shop/product.php?productid=109&cat=0&page=1


Unleashed
Supplement Facts

Servings Size 3 capsules
Servings Per Container 30
Avena Sativa (with at least 7% Avenacosides A&B) 500 mgs
Muara Puama: 12:1 active extract 500mgs
Trimethyglycine 1000mgs
Xanthoparmilia Scabrosa: 50mgs
Urtica dioica: 100 mgs
Ashwagandha: Standardized to 1.5%Withanolides 500 mgs
==============================================

Thanks for clearing that up, i totally missed that!

chrysin is a pretty good SHBG reducer

Plymouth, have you personally had success with chrysin? Everything thing i've read about it seems pretty mixed.

 

[JanSz]

chrysin is a pretty good SHBG reducer

As far as I know Chrysin is AI.

But I learn every day.

 

[Joejoebaggins]

HCG in the morning? Before bed? Does it matter?

I read through the HCG protocol and it doesn't mention time of day.

 

[JanSz]

HCG in the morning? Before bed? Does it matter?

I read through the HCG protocol and it doesn't mention time of day.

It does not matter, just be consistent.

I am trying to make it simple for myself.
Testosterone innjection
HCG
Liquidex
all done at one sitting, in the morning within 5-10 minutes.
Everything is on E3D schedule.
One day I take all three,
then I have two days free.

 

[Joejoebaggins]

This has been appearing over the last couple months, but i seem to have slightly puffy nipples. They seem a little "condensed".

When i had my BW done back in 05/07 my prolactin was:

Prolactin 7.00 (2.64 - 13.3)

It's not in the double digets, but something to note i guess.

Perhaps i should look into some quality vitex?

 

[Joejoebaggins]

dr Marianco on SHBG

Thanks for posting that Jansz! I didn't even see it!

Great little read.

 

[JanSz]

This has been appearing over the last couple months, but i seem to have slightly puffy nipples. They seem a little "condensed".

When i had my BW done back in 05/07 my prolactin was:

Prolactin 7.00 (2.64 - 13.3)

It's not in the double digets, but something to note i guess.

Perhaps i should look into some quality vitex?

I tried Vitex, did not feel any difference, I did not blood tested for results.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html
Post #47
Dostinex (.5 mg twice a week)

http://www.ag-guys.com/store/product.php?productid=16153&cat=248

30ml @ 0.25mg/ML Price: $199.00

Why do not you try and tell me if it works.
This $199 will last 15 days, hmmm

 

[superone]

Ive read on a few big bodybuilding forums thats Dostinex in liquid form isnt as potent or reliable than the real pill form. For example people have gotton no results from the liquid, but results from the pill form.


I would try the pill form just to be safe.

 

[JanSz]

Ive read on a few big bodybuilding forums thats Dostinex in liquid form isnt as potent or reliable than the real pill form. For example people have gotton no results from the liquid, but results from the pill form.


I would try the pill form just to be safe.

http://www.pfizer.com/pfizer/download/uspi_dostinex.pdf
HOW SUPPLIED
DOSTINEX Tablets are white, scored, capsule-shaped tablets containing 0.5 mg
cabergoline. Each tablet is scored on one side and has the letter P and the letter U on
either side of the breakline. The other side of the tablet is engraved with the number 700.
DOSTINEX is available as follows:
Bottles of 8 tablets NDC 0013-7001-12
=============================================================
DOSTINEX - The Sex Drug (Cabergoline/Cabaser)

Buy Dostinex cheap - Buy Cabergoline cheap - U.S. & International delivery
Dostinex (cabergoline 0.5 mg) 8 tablets (1 bottle) $109 SALE!

Dostinex (cabergoline 0.5 mg) 16 tablets (2 bottles) $199 SALE!
================================================================

Wonder how much they will charge a my local pharmacy or Walgreens.

 

[Joejoebaggins]

Update

Here is a quick update:

Regime:

• 250iu HCG x2 weekly
• 50mg Test Cyp Weekly (split into E3d E=50/205/7*3, E=0.105)
• 200mg Selenium
• ZMA
• 6 Drops Lugol's Solution (Morning)
• 50mg Oral Pregnenolone (Switching to topical)
• 50mg Oral DHEA
• 3 Grains Armour
• 1.5g Evening Primrose Oil (500mg 3x a day with food)

Diet:

• No Goitrogenic Foods (Brassica Family, Millet, etc.)
• 30% Fat, 30% Prot, 40% Carb
• Carbohydrates mostly being taken in after weight training/cardio
• 35g Fiber (Green Beans)
• Cardio 5x week
• Lift 3x week

Stats:

• 22 years old
• 144lbs
• ~13% BF

Ok so to start with the obvious my sex life is still non existent. I've only been on TRT for 2 1/2 weeks, but still nothing. I KNOW my test cyp dosage is extremely small, but my doctor wants to start me off low because I'm young. So i'm just going to have to bear with it for now.

My hair has gotten better!!! It has noticeably gotten thicker, the dandruff has gotten far less visible and only resides in a small area near my forhead. I still lose a good amount of hair a day, but the quality has improved (thickness, shine).

I'm not sure why my hair is gotten better but I changed these things in the same time frame so it's one of these...or a combination.

• 6 Drops Lugol's Solution (Iodine)
• 1.5g Evening Primrose Oil (500mg 3x a day with food)
• Raised Armour to 3 Grains
• A good amount of Whey Protein

Since starting the DHEA & Preg my memory/concentration increased dramatically. I can actually do math in my head without resorting to a calculator and I can do complicated tasks without extreme anxiety. I look forward to moving onto Preg Cream and seeing the difference.

I'm sweating a ton! For the first time in my life. I think this is because of the Preg. Probably hormone related, but i never really sweated heavily through my whole childhood, but after oral preg I'll be drenched in sweat after my workout. Not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing haha.

So onto the ongoing seems-like-this-is-never-going-to-end problems.

CONSTIPATION:

I have not had a solid BM in 3 days and this is totally normal... Im totally bloated and feel like I'm retaining food from weeks ago. I drink at least 1.5 gallons of water a day. Have about 40-50g of good fat (EVOO, coconut oil) a day and it seems like nothing helps. I've been taking blister pack Jarrow probiotics, but they got left in my car on a hot day and i think uh they might have "died"...

Since my E2 was already a bit dodgy at 46, I think this could possibly be the culprit. I have never had consistent good BM's but they have never been THIS bad before. Constipation started when i got on Preg/DHEA/T/HCG. So I'm sure my E2 was elevated...

I have Indolplex DIM as well as Arimidex on hand.

LOSING WEIGHT:

I am not fat by any stretch of the imagination, but i have always had belly fat that has been impossible for me to get rid of. The last 4 weeks i have been doing cardio & lifting and my weight has not budged one lb. This could be my Thyroid, but I would imagine at 3 grains i don't have too much longer to go before i get optimized.

I eat 1700-2000 cals a day and don't eat any processed or junk food. I feel like something (hormones and/or thyroid) is hindering this.

BLOOD FLOW:

Seems the blood and or testosterone doesn't flow to my penis in the morning... But at night time it totally changes, my penis gets soft again and fills up nicely. I have high cortisol at night, possibly related?


Any comments/suggestions are welcomed!

 

[hardasnails1973]

Here is a quick update:

Regime:

• 250iu HCG x2 weekly
• 50mg Test Cyp Weekly (split into E3d E=50/205/7*3, E=0.105)
• 200mg Selenium
• ZMA
• 6 Drops Lugol's Solution (Morning)
• 50mg Oral Pregnenolone (Switching to topical)
• 50mg Oral DHEA
• 3 Grains Armour
• 1.5g Evening Primrose Oil (500mg 3x a day with food)

Diet:

• No Goitrogenic Foods (Brassica Family, Millet, etc.)
• 30% Fat, 30% Prot, 40% Carb
• Carbohydrates mostly being taken in after weight training/cardio
• 35g Fiber (Green Beans)
• Cardio 5x week
• Lift 3x week

Stats:

• 22 years old
• 144lbs
• ~13% BF

Ok so to start with the obvious my sex life is still non existent. I've only been on TRT for 2 1/2 weeks, but still nothing. I KNOW my test cyp dosage is extremely small, but my doctor wants to start me off low because I'm young. So i'm just going to have to bear with it for now.

My hair has gotten better!!! It has noticeably gotten thicker, the dandruff has gotten far less visible and only resides in a small area near my forhead. I still lose a good amount of hair a day, but the quality has improved (thickness, shine).

I'm not sure why my hair is gotten better but I changed these things in the same time frame so it's one of these...or a combination.

• 6 Drops Lugol's Solution (Iodine)
• 1.5g Evening Primrose Oil (500mg 3x a day with food)
• Raised Armour to 3 Grains
• A good amount of Whey Protein

Since starting the DHEA & Preg my memory/concentration increased dramatically. I can actually do math in my head without resorting to a calculator and I can do complicated tasks without extreme anxiety. I look forward to moving onto Preg Cream and seeing the difference.

I'm sweating a ton! For the first time in my life. I think this is because of the Preg. Probably hormone related, but i never really sweated heavily through my whole childhood, but after oral preg I'll be drenched in sweat after my workout. Not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing haha.

So onto the ongoing seems-like-this-is-never-going-to-end problems.

CONSTIPATION:

I have not had a solid BM in 3 days and this is totally normal... Im totally bloated and feel like I'm retaining food from weeks ago. I drink at least 1.5 gallons of water a day. Have about 40-50g of good fat (EVOO, coconut oil) a day and it seems like nothing helps. I've been taking blister pack Jarrow probiotics, but they got left in my car on a hot day and i think uh they might have "died"...

Since my E2 was already a bit dodgy at 46, I think this could possibly be the culprit. I have never had consistent good BM's but they have never been THIS bad before. Constipation started when i got on Preg/DHEA/T/HCG. So I'm sure my E2 was elevated...

I have Indolplex DIM as well as Arimidex on hand.

LOSING WEIGHT:

I am not fat by any stretch of the imagination, but i have always had belly fat that has been impossible for me to get rid of. The last 4 weeks i have been doing cardio & lifting and my weight has not budged one lb. This could be my Thyroid, but I would imagine at 3 grains i don't have too much longer to go before i get optimized.

I eat 1700-2000 cals a day and don't eat any processed or junk food. I feel like something (hormones and/or thyroid) is hindering this.

BLOOD FLOW:

Seems the blood and or testosterone doesn't flow to my penis in the morning... But at night time it totally changes, my penis gets soft again and fills up nicely. I have high cortisol at night, possibly related?


Any comments/suggestions are welcomed!

Tests
1. spend 100 bucks and get iodine loading tests to verify
2. ft3,ft4,dhea-s, total testosterone, shbg, dht, CBC, igf-1estrodial, vitamin D serum, ferritin, CMP with liver panel, cortisol free covers all your hormonal baisis
3. check e2 metabolism - via genova (estroessence) , or rheines
4. if have bc/bs PC get spectracell vitamin/minreal anaylsis done. BIGGY and over looked

This will give you a good place to start from..
TRy DIm at high dosages (400mgs) with 500 TMG BID for 4 weeks for e2 maintaince.250 ius e3d Hcg took my e2 from 17 to 75 and test about 200 points. Since taking DIM at higher dosages I believe will impact e2 as it has mine. I have been taking dim 8 pills a 75 mgs of dim response and nothing else has changed and expereince alot of signs of low e2 - insominia, muscle loss, and lack of muscle pump, joint pains. If I can control e2 with out armidex I would definetly go that route but you need alot higher dosages then start out at 400 and retest in 2-3 weeks on DIM just e2 but must now where shbg is first of all so you do not drop so low with e2 in realationship to shbg. Low shbg need lower e2 and higher shbg need more e2 to be available to the body..