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2016 supplement of the year for lbm?

Zariph said:
You ran a bottle of Or1gin? If so what was the results/effects
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There are some better reviews than what I am able to offer in the Orig1n Q&A thread as I was stacking it with other things. Also I had to cut it short because I recently developed some issues with the runs (prob not related to Orig1n) but had to get back to basics. However, I could tell that it greatly enhanced muscle fullness (esp chest/shoulders) as good or better than anything else that is natural and also reduced recovery time a great deal. I would also say there was a slight hunger increase/reduced sense of being full. There is quite a bit of potency in just one of those little bad boys. Some people, including myself may do just fine with two capsules per day. Oh, I am one of those that had an increase in libido as well..
 
Ricky10 said:
Just clarifying. Are you actually using ABE V2 or the current version (with CistaMAX) which is actually the third version?
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I stand corrected it is version 3 with cistamax. I'm actually delaying my winter cycle just so I can keep going with anabeta for a full 8-10weeks. This was a bridge from my (-)-epi cycle.
 
goodvibes said:
I stand corrected it is version 3 with cistamax. I'm actually delaying my winter cycle just so I can keep going with anabeta for a full 8-10weeks. This was a bridge from my (-)-epi cycle.
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Your info is tempting me to try another run at anabeta elite, I did run the Elite V1 and I did no notice a lot, maybe this new version would be better for me
 
alvin1 said:
Your info is tempting me to try another run at anabeta elite, I did run the Elite V1 and I did no notice a lot, maybe this new version would be better for me
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I tried the last version with minimal results. I used to stack it with ara with significant improvements. This time around I'm running v3 solo because I got it for cheap and I'm glad I did it standalone at least I know how well it works or if it doesn't at all. For me it definitely makes a diff
 
goodvibes said:
I tried the last version with minimal results. I used to stack it with ara with significant improvements. This time around I'm running v3 solo because I got it for cheap and I'm glad I did it standalone at least I know how well it works or if it doesn't at all. For me it definitely makes a diff
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Be sure to post your thoughts after this run
 
Original TEST1FY sold for $50 and it sold out pretty much straight away. If Olympus Labs can do it once, they can probably do a special run of a product. ;)
 
Ricky10 said:
My vote for supplement of the year for LBM thus far would be Orig1n. We have never seen anything like it and it actually works. FD2 comes in very close at second place for me. I only give Orig1n the edge because it is so orig1nal...
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Or1gin has been getting some truly amazing reviews.

For the money, I don't think you can beat Tr1umph + Or1gin.
 
alvin1 said:
Party pooper!
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You want more poop? :D

Ok, "gains" being attributed to a supplement, first need to have the biggest confounding factor eliminated - CALORIC SURPLUS.

So what supplement, when used during maintenance caloric intake, *adds* muscle? And how much? Was this "gain" measured with Hydro/DXA/MRI?

You all do know(?) that trained subjects, eating at maintenance calories, sitting on their a$$ for 10 weeks, BUT injecting 600mg of Testosterone per week - "only" added 7lbs of 100% pure muscle. So certainly no supplement can come anywhere close to that. Placebo plus exercise at maintenance added 4lbs (nice recomp). Maintenance, exercise, and 600mg of Test added almost 13.5lbs

So you really have a narrow range in which to claim LBM gains due to supplementation: 1-2lbs, better read as 1 pound more than "Recompers", and 1 pound less than the "Juiced Couch Potatoes"

I realize some will say adding food will make the supplement a 1+1=5 proposition - I'd have to be convinced of that.

Body Weight and Composition

Body weight did not change significantly in the men in either placebo group. The men given testosterone without exercise had a significant mean increase in total body weight.

Fat-free mass did not change significantly in the group assigned to placebo but no exercise. The men treated with testosterone but no exercise had an increase of 3.2 kg in fat-free mass. The percentage of body fat did not change significantly in any group
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The_Old_Guy said:
You want more poop? :D

Ok, "gains" being attributed to a supplement, first need to have the biggest confounding factor eliminated - CALORIC SURPLUS.

So what supplement, when used during maintenance caloric intake, *adds* muscle? And how much? Was this "gain" measured with Hydro/DXA/MRI?

You all do know(?) that trained subjects, eating at maintenance calories, sitting on their a$$ for 10 weeks, BUT injecting 600mg of Testosterone per week - "only" added 7lbs of 100% pure muscle. So certainly no supplement can come anywhere close to that. Placebo plus exercise at maintenance added 4lbs (nice recomp). Maintenance, exercise, and 600mg of Test added almost 13.5lbs

So you really have a narrow range in which to claim LBM gains due to supplementation: 1-2lbs, better read as 1 pound more than "Recompers", and 1 pound less than the "Juiced Couch Potatoes"

I realize some will say adding food will make the supplement a 1+1=5 proposition - I'd have to be convinced of that.



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You want more poop? Food will do that too!

How about something that helps you eat more, by increasing appetite and/or reducing a full/bloated feeling? Sometimes eating in a real surplus consistently can be a bit of work. Some people do report increases appetite with PA (lecithin), which is also a pretty great supplement alone, is pretty cheap, and also has calories/fat to help put you in a surplus (and it has choline and stuff too). That's a win in my book.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Placebo plus exercise at maintenance added 4lbs (nice recomp).
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4lbs in 10 weeks eating at maintenance??? That insane... I'm not buying it. Anyway I have a caloric deficit coming up for my cut so if anyone has a magical pill that will let me maintain my strength throughout the cut let me know!
 
210LBS said:
4lbs in 10 weeks eating at maintenance??? That insane... I'm not buying it. Anyway I have a caloric deficit coming up for my cut so if anyone has a magical pill that will let me maintain my strength throughout the cut let me know!
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You don't buy it? Did you read the link?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
You want more poop? Food will do that too!

How about something that helps you eat more, by increasing appetite and/or reducing a full/bloated feeling? Sometimes eating in a real surplus consistently can be a bit of work. Some people do report increases appetite with PA (lecithin), which is also a pretty great supplement alone, is pretty cheap, and also has calories/fat to help put you in a surplus (and it has choline and stuff too). That's a win in my book.
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Food is the most anabolic. I recently posted a link to a calculator using the latest math, that will put 20 lbs on you in a year if you can stay at +500 the whole time. Doing it right should net 70/30 muscle to fat. Not too shabby.

But a food surplus wasn't the point - anything claiming anabolism, should be able to do it at maintenance. That Laxo stuff comes to mind - "200% Greater Protein blah, blah" OK, I'll eat isocaloric and not train, how much muscle will I add?

A supplement to eat more? Jordan Peters just eats sorbet by the gallon ? I head for the Peanut Butter/ Planters Mixed Nuts.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Food is the most anabolic. I recently posted a link to a calculator using the latest math, that will put 20 lbs on you in a year if you can stay at +500 the whole time. Doing it right should net 70/30 muscle to fat. Not too shabby.

But a food surplus wasn't the point - anything claiming anabolism, should be able to do it at maintenance. That Laxo stuff comes to mind - "200% Greater Protein blah, blah" OK, I'll eat isocaloric and not train, how much muscle will I add?

A supplement to eat more? Jordan Peters just eats sorbet by the gallon ? I head for the Peanut Butter/ Planters Mixed Nuts.
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The_Old_Guy eating on a caloric surplus after you've gone really close to your natural potential is easier said than done. I'm 5'5 and can easily be at around 180lbs all natty. Honestly bro if you take the right "natty" supplements you'll definitely see the difference. Take my post #15 on this thread for example. In about a week or two of taking said supp, I immediately felt my appetite increased and now at around the 5 week mark my muscles are fuller. I'm eating at a remarkable rate these past few weeks and it's safe to say it's what I'm taking.

I've been a lifter for over a decade and was always consistent throughout these years. I'm very in tuned with my training regimen. I would consider my life more stable than anyone you'd know. My daily schedule and food intake is basically identical on a day to day basis. The only thing that changes is probably my natty and anabolic cycles.
 
goodvibes said:
I immediately felt my appetite increased
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This I believe can happen, heck, smoke a little (back in the day) and I am ravenous - but it's not the supplement that is putting on any LBM it's the food. I *guess* if it's really difficult to eat dense calories (fat based) or carbs (sorbet/high sugar liquids/sugary cereal) then spending $50/month to make you eat more food is worth it? As a former fattie, not eating is foreign to me.

and now at around the 5 week mark my muscles are fuller.
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How would this be measured? Put a number on it.

I've been a lifter for over a decade and was always consistent throughout these years. I'm very in tuned with my training regimen. I would consider my life more stable than anyone you'd know. My daily schedule and food intake is basically identical on a day to day basis. The only thing that changes is probably my natty and anabolic cycles.
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Same here - semi-retired at 48, business is run from home, everything is paid for, been eating the same thing every day for the last 2.5 years (Fat Secret App baby!), meticulous body-comp tracking, training, etc... Guess you've had better luck than me with these products.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
You don't buy it? Did you read the link?
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4lbs of muscle on maintenance in 10 weeks is massive - sign me up for that placebo! I read it on my phone but the study didn't say anything in regards to who the subjects were from what I could see. Were these people with exercise backgrounds? I also saw that group increased their lifts by 20% - another amazing feat. Unless these are complete newbies, these are not normal numbers in weight training in my opinion.
 
210LBS said:
4lbs of muscle on maintenance in 10 weeks is massive - sign me up for that placebo! I read it on my phone but the study didn't say anything in regards to who the subjects were from what I could see. Were these people with exercise backgrounds? I also saw that group increased their lifts by 20% - another amazing feat. Unless these are complete newbies, these are not normal numbers in weight training in my opinion.
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The subjects were normal men weighing 90 to 115 percent of their ideal body weights; they were 19 to 40 years of age and had experience with weight lifting. They were recruited through advertisements in local newspapers and community colleges. None had participated in competitive sports in the preceding 12 months. Men who had ever taken anabolic agents or recreational drugs or had had a psychiatric or behavioral disorder were excluded from the study.
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The men in the exercise groups received controlled, supervised strength training three days per week during the treatment period. All the men trained at equivalent intensities in relation to their strength scores before the training. The training consisted of a cycle of weight lifting at heavy intensity (90 percent of the maximal weight the man lifted for one repetition before the start of training), light intensity (70 percent of the pretraining one-repetition maximal weight), and medium intensity (80 percent of this maximal weight) on three nonconsecutive days each week.35 Regardless of the actual weights lifted, the training was held constant at four sets with six repetitions per set (a set is the number of complete repetitions of an exercise followed by rest). Because previous research had demonstrated increases in strength of approximately 7 percent for the bench-press exercise and 12 percent for the squatting exercise after four to five weeks of training, the weights were increased correspondingly during the final five weeks of training in relation to the initial intensity. The number of sets was also increased from four to five, but the number of repetitions per set remained constant. The men were advised not to undertake any resistance exercise or moderate-to-heavy endurance exercise in addition to the prescribed regimen.
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Muscle strength in the bench-press and the squatting exercises did not change significantly over the 10-week period in the group assigned to placebo with no exercise. The men in the testosterone-alone and placebo-plus-exercise groups had significant increases in the one-repetition maximal weights lifted in the squatting exercises, averaging 19 percent and 21 percent, respectively. Similarly, mean bench-press strength increased in these two groups by 10 percent and 11 percent, respectively. In the testosterone-plus-exercise group, the increase in muscle strength in the squatting exercise (38 percent) was greater than that in any other group, as was the increase in bench-press strength (22 percent).
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I mean, you believe with what you believe - you think it's a fake study in the NJM? Proper programming makes a huge difference.
 
goodvibes said:
The_Old_Guy eating on a caloric surplus after you've gone really close to your natural potential is easier said than done.
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I agree... Every time i try to bulk, i noticed my "natural potencial" to be around 80kg... I know it isn´t to much but my body doesn´t seem to agree eating more no matter what i try. Everytime i reach 80kg, even i force myself to eat more (which i really don´t like), it only results in one thing. More time in bathroom.

However, between every bulk and cut cycles, my %BF drops a little more. So it´s a very slow recomposition. Not a big difference but i´m aware how hard is to gain lbm, particularly above 30yo.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
I mean, you believe with what you believe - you think it's a fake study in the NJM? Proper programming makes a huge difference.
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Experienced lifters gaining 4 lbs muscle over 10 weeks on maintenance. Experienced lifters increasing their lifts by 20% in 10 weeks. To put that in perspective, that would be increasing ones bench press from say 250lbs to 300lbs - on a caloric maintenance. Maybe that is normal... what the hell do I know. I'm probably the one who isn't normal.
 
I do think this study speaks volumes to the people who say.. "you can't just sit on your a$$, take steroids, and build muscle" - well apparently you can. Actually, you can build more muscle taking steroids and doing nothing than exercising and not taking steroids.
 
210LBS said:
Experienced lifters...
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I actually don't think that they were like "Us" now. They "lifted" in the past - this makes me think they were like I was in HS and College - once or twice a week in the spring/summer, always on International Bench Day :D It's not like they got the College Football Team. All speculation, but I suspect there was still some "newness" in them.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
I actually don't think that they were like "Us" now. They "lifted" in the past - this makes me think they were like I was in HS and College - once or twice a week in the spring/summer, always on International Bench Day :D It's not like they got the College Football Team. All speculation, but I suspect there was still some "newness" in them.
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If I read it correctly, it looks like the starting bench/squat average numbers for the various groups were 195-240 (bench) and 225-275 (squat). That's not "non-lifters," but it's not at the level a lot of us around here are.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
I actually don't think that they were like "Us" now. They "lifted" in the past - this makes me think they were like I was in HS and College - once or twice a week in the spring/summer, always on International Bench Day :D It's not like they got the College Football Team. All speculation, but I suspect there was still some "newness" in them.
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That's true and that makes a huge difference. Also, when someone shoots you up with a placebo injection, who knows what that does to your mind. Maybe a fake injection on its own is possible to move some people's weights 20%. The mind is a powerful thing. However, I can tell you my bench isn't going up from 335 to 402 in 10 weeks on a placebo injection - no way, no how. My mind is strong but it ain't that strong.
 
210LBS said:
That's true and that makes a huge difference. Also, when someone shoots you up with a placebo injection, who knows what that does to your mind. Maybe a fake injection on its own is possible to move some people's weights 20%. The mind is a powerful thing. However, I can tell you my bench isn't going up from 335 to 402 in 10 weeks on a placebo injection - no way, no how. My mind is strong but it ain't that strong.
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You're a lot more advanced then they are. The highest average Bench in any group at the start of the study was 240. Hell, the highest average group Bench Press at the end of the study was 260-265. Lots of us around here can do that for at least a handful of reps.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
You're a lot more advanced then they are. The highest average Bench in any group at the start of the study was 240. Hell, the highest average group Bench Press at the end of the study was 260-265. Lots of us around here can do that for at least a handful of reps.
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Fair enough. But 20% is still 20%. I mean if you started off at 240 you would have jumped to 288. 200 would bring you to 240. Those are impressive results for 10 weeks on a caloric maintenance! My bench is 335 bulked up, great energy, arched back, and with the stars properly aligned. But it took me more than half my life to get there. I cannot say that I've ever seen a 20% increase in my lifts over 10 weeks unless I maybe consider when I first began lifting (which I don't remember how much I increased).
 
210LBS said:
Fair enough. But 20% is still 20%. I mean if you started off at 240 you would have jumped to 288. 200 would bring you to 240. Those are impressive results for 10 weeks on a caloric maintenance! My bench is 335 bulked up, great energy, arched back, and with the stars properly aligned. But it took me more than half my life to get there. I cannot say that I've ever seen a 20% increase in my lifts over 10 weeks unless I maybe consider when I first began lifting (which I don't remember how much I increased).
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Remember: With percentages, the lower the number, the better and more impressive they sound "DAA 40% increase! (from 200ng/dl....) :D

MUC hit it on the head: The starting numbers were low enough to allow for a 21 and 10% increase via spot on programming.
 
InItForGainz said:
X2
If a company could come up with a fully inclusive supplement with fully clinical and proven doses I'd be willing to pay for it. It'd save me a lot of space and all the bother having to shop for it all seperately
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There is a company that is working on something like that .
 
History:

All in the family

It was right around this time that a small family-owned company had a brainstorm. An entrepreneur named Tom Ciola came up with the idea of using all of the popular ingredients and combining them in a freeze-dried glandular protein base (yum). Herbs like yohimbe were added for their "stimulative" effect so the consumer would "feel" the concoction working. He called it Hot Stuff, and it became an overnight success. Hot Stuff flew off the shelves! Stores couldn't restock fast enough. It seemed as if a supplement finally had been developed that mimicked the effects of steroids. Was it a synergistic effect of all the combined nutrients that made Hot Stuff so effective? Or was it something more?

There have been accusations alluded to by several unrelated sources (who wish to remain anonymous for obvious reasons) that in order for Hot Stuff to "make sure" that its initial release would create a stir, it had to contain an additional ingredient not listed on the can. Something that would leave no doubt of its effectiveness in the user's mind. Something that would bring them back for more. Rumor has it that this "something" was methyltestosterone.

Methyltestosterone is an inexpensive form of orally absorbable testosterone that works quickly and effectively to raise strength and aggression. It's also extremely liver toxic. It would appear to be a good choice as an added ingredient for another reason: it's undetectable in a drug test. The "insiders" theory is that, even if the FDA somehow found out about the drug being used, all of the canisters would already be sold. An inspection of the National Health (makers of Hot Stuff) facility would show no wrongdoing. No evidence has ever been found to substantiate these claims. The rumors seem far-fetched, to say the least, but there was a period when Hot Stuff was pulled from the shelves for reasons that have always been mired in ambiguity. There was a "new and improved" version released shortly thereafter, but anyone familiar with the "first" Hot Stuff will tell you that the new one never quite duplicated the characteristic "kick" of the original.

Our own "Consumer Watchdawg," Bruce Kneller, has a theory that it may have been the National Health people themselves that started the whole methyltest rumor in an effort to make the product appear more "illicit" and, hence, more profitable. This would appeal to the hardcore bodybuilder "wannabes," thus generating more interest and a solid consumer base. I contacted the people at National Health in an effort for them to present their side of the story concerning these allegations. They never returned my calls.
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Yeah. My liver got jacked up too. When I stopped taking it. (I think it was to blame. Not sure really) wasn't doing much else. No pct. it was otc right? ...

I got bloods back then. Liver enzymes way up. Diagnosed fatty liver. Estrogen had to be up. Super rebound and weight gain.
 
I would go with any ergogenic aid, such as Ergonine, TR1UMPH or PowerMax XT. They are similar, but also different, be any of those should be a staple and will aid in lean mass gains.

These products will help with performance, both endurance and strength; both things can lead to lean gains. In PowerMax XtT, you're looking at full doses of creatine, COP and Amento to aid in strength output and endurance. Additionally, there is a full serving of TMG. Most people only equate recovery with TMG, but TMG also improves body composition.

At the end of the six weeks the bodybuilders who had taken betaine had lost a couple of percent fat mass. On top of that, the betaine supplementation also resulted in a significant increase in lean body mass. The scans that the researchers did showed that the bodybuilders in the betaine group had also gained more muscle in their arms.
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The hormonal effects of betaine suggest that anabolic processes are at work – and this is exactly what the researchers saw when they looked at the activity of anabolic signalling proteins in the muscle cell samples. Post workout the researchers observed increased activity of the anabolic signalling molecules Akt and p70-S6k.
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Six-weeks of betaine supplementation improved body composition, arm size, bench press work capacity, attenuated the rise in urinary HCTL, and tended to improve power (p = .07) but not strength.
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I do realize that these Ergogenic aids are not the "sexiest" products out there, but they contain ingredients that will help one achieve their goal of lean mass, granted diet and training are in check.
 
So any other votes for supplement of the year? I think it should be a supplement that was newly released in 2016. Not things like caloric surplus or PA/soy lecithin. So I think we have FD2 and Orig1n so far...anything else somebody stumbled upon that was miraculous for LBM?
 
What about cortisol and estrogen control products? Don't high cortisol and estrogen hinder muscle growth? Therefore, these products would technically be somewhat anabolic, no?
 
210LBS said:
What about cortisol and estrogen control products? Don't high cortisol and estrogen hinder muscle growth? Therefore, these products would technically be somewhat anabolic, no?
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Only if they were high to begin with really.

They are used too much in the BB community, often incorrectly IMO.

Remember you also need both to grow, recover, etc. Just keep them in a healthy range IMO. Best use is at low bodyfat % before a shoot/show to drop some fluid/tighten appearance

Not overly anabolic (not natural ones)
 
Driven2lift said:
Only if they were high to begin with really.

They are used too much in the BB community, often incorrectly IMO.

Remember you also need both to grow, recover, etc. Just keep them in a healthy range IMO. Best use is at low bodyfat % before a shoot/show to drop some fluid/tighten appearance

Not overly anabolic (not natural ones)
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I agree. I'm just trying to come up with some suggestions here. I personally don't think any of these natural supplements are "overly" anabolic. Just trying to work with what we've got here.
 
Glucose wins anabolism,

Sugar pills will be a trend
 
Ricky10 said:
So any other votes for supplement of the year? I think it should be a supplement that was newly released in 2016. Not things like caloric surplus or PA/soy lecithin. So I think we have FD2 and Orig1n so far...anything else somebody stumbled upon that was miraculous for LBM?
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Started a new product that's comming on the market . Has bunch of every thing at clinical dose but now I'm not buying 3-4 different products for my multifunction supplement .
 
Ricky10 said:
Yes, what is this? I thought you may have been talking about MassMax XT but obviously not.
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They are in ig but no label yet. I know if I can have a all in one product I would pay for it. Aminos vitamins , antioxidants pump, muscle builders all in one I would pay more.
 
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