18 yrs old and looking for ph alternatives

HellTownPlaya

New member
im 18 yrs old and i know my body isnt fully developed enough for ph's. yeah ill admit ive got plenty of em stashed but ive seen what happens to people my age that use them and they end up doing more damage to themselves than what its worth. i was hoping for some input/suggestions for non ph bulking stacks so i figured this would be the perfect place to look.............thanks
 
This is easy....

Lots of food.

Supplements:
Protein
Creatine (Mono or CEE in bulk)
Multivitamin
Fish Oil

If you have lots of money:
BCAA's - Products such as Scivation Xtend.
Casein Protein at night.
Muscle Milk
CEE - products such as Dymatize Xpand.
Whey Isolate

At our age we have a lot of test, all we need to grow is lots of food.
 
Save your money and learn to diet. Im guessing everyone on this board that started lifting in highschool would have wished they would have worked on their diet instead of buying the latest supp that really only works when your diet is right on. Most don't understand diet, took me long enough to really realize that my diet wasn't as good as I thought. If your diet was on, you would be gaining good amount of muscle now and would not be asking these questions most likely.
 
I'd recommend starting with 2 dozen whole eggs a day to start. For $2.00
a day it's going to be the cheapest approach. You can't cook them but idealy throwing 8 in 3 shakes a day will be a cheap way to get your protein intake up. Also immediately after training you should be getting MOST of your carbohydrates for the day immediately after and within 1 1/2 hours after training. Force the carbs and protein down you in this window of time. Another cheap source of calories is getting at least half a gallon of milk down you a day. Use it in your shakes versus water.

Note that there is a difference in Posst workout shake and Meal Replacement shake (MRP) An MRP should be loaded with calories from all forms of macro nutrients. Flax oil, peanut butter, the eggs, instant oatmeal, etc.. In your post workout shake just eliminate the fats so either use skim milk at that time or water with a high glycemic carbs. I know your heard this before and again and again. But it's THE way to go. I know your probably thinkning I eat enough etc.. Or I eat plenty after I train. I'd suggest force feeding yourself with High_Glyc carbs and whey isolate, BCAA's after training. I mean IMMEDIATELY after. and again get another dose with an hour to an hour and a half max.

Stating your current regimine would help people help you.
 
Superior1 said:
I'd suggest force feeding yourself with High_Glyc carbs and whey isolate, BCAA's after training. I mean IMMEDIATELY after. and again get another dose with an hour to an hour and a half max.
Click to expand...


Does this mean I can have candy with my shake? :twisted:
I love Wonka candy best. haha
 
Superior1 said:
I'd recommend starting with 2 dozen whole eggs a day to start. For $2.00
a day it's going to be the cheapest approach. You can't cook them but idealy throwing 8 in 3 shakes a day will be a cheap way to get your protein intake up. Also immediately after training you should be getting MOST of your carbohydrates for the day immediately after and within 1 1/2 hours after training. Force the carbs and protein down you in this window of time. Another cheap source of calories is getting at least half a gallon of milk down you a day. Use it in your shakes versus water.

Note that there is a difference in Posst workout shake and Meal Replacement shake (MRP) An MRP should be loaded with calories from all forms of macro nutrients. Flax oil, peanut butter, the eggs, instant oatmeal, etc.. In your post workout shake just eliminate the fats so either use skim milk at that time or water with a high glycemic carbs. I know your heard this before and again and again. But it's THE way to go. I know your probably thinkning I eat enough etc.. Or I eat plenty after I train. I'd suggest force feeding yourself with High_Glyc carbs and whey isolate, BCAA's after training. I mean IMMEDIATELY after. and again get another dose with an hour to an hour and a half max.

Stating your current regimine would help people help you.
Click to expand...

Not quite sure I would recommend this approach, but one thing I do agree with is getting lots of calories in. But eating 2 dozen eggs a day does not seem like the way to go. Also this whole diet seems based on shakes. Whole foods are always better than shakes.

I'd look around in the bulking section and see what a real bulking diet looks like before trying the above approach.
 
Eating 2 dozen whole eggs a day and you'll end up in the hospital getting artery de-clogging.

Egg whites with the occasional yolk. Tuna, boneless skinless chicken, oatmeal(100% rolled or steel oats), skim milk, protein powders, creatine, Whole wheat breads.

Basically if you do a search you will find that all the diet information is there to direct you to a more healthy lifestyle and at your age you'll grow without any added supps.
 
yeah i know all about dieting my dad used to compete right now my diet looks like this-
morning- oatmeal and as many eggs i can eat

couple hours later-shake, 2scoops protein with one scoop oatmeal w/ banana and 16 oz of skim milk

meal2-lean chicken/beef/ or tuna whichever is readily available,with a carb such as rice or a starch like a baked potato

gym-protein shake after

dinner is usually pretty clean and healthy

depending on the day usually a small meal before bed/ shake

its hard to get all my meals in since i work outside doing landscaping, its all about planning my meals in advance and getting enough rest since i work a lot of hours. i also have daily multi vitamin fish oils and creatine
 
HellTownPlaya said:
yeah i know all about dieting my dad used to compete right now my diet looks like this-
morning- oatmeal and as many eggs i can eat

couple hours later-shake, 2scoops protein with one scoop oatmeal w/ banana and 16 oz of skim milk

meal2-lean chicken/beef/ or tuna whichever is readily available,with a carb such as rice or a starch like a baked potato

gym-protein shake after

dinner is usually pretty clean and healthy

depending on the day usually a small meal before bed/ shake

its hard to get all my meals in since i work outside doing landscaping, its all about planning my meals in advance and getting enough rest since i work a lot of hours. i also have daily multi vitamin fish oils and creatine
Click to expand...

Eat more.
That is all anyone here can/will tell you.
 
Let me clarify my post a bit. At 18yo unless every male in your family has a propensity to cardiovascular disease 2 dozen eggs a day isn't going to negatively effect you on a bulking phase of a regimine. I'm not stating to make 2 dozen eggs a day a staple ongoing forever. But during bulking. 8 12 weeks.

And also I'm suggesting eggs since they are cheap and at 18 you are probably on limited funds. Also the post wasn't a diet regimine in whole. The shakes are in addition to 3 real meals a day. The shakes add a cheap but moreover a convenient way to get the calories down.

I've eaten 3 dozen eggs a day myself for a whole winter and never had elevated cholesterol. But I also don't have heriditary propensity to cardiovascular disease. Diabetes is another story. :)

My point was eggs is a great source and the cheapest and a convenient method to get both calories and protein down your gullet. Eating more is a given. My suggestions is a cheap way to do so and safe as long as is for a limited time and 8-12 weeks is limited.

It's not very difficult to prepare 3 shakes pack them in a cooler and bam you got at least 300o convenient calories at your disposal.
 
Superior1 said:
Let me clarify my post a bit. At 18yo unless every male in your family has a propensity to cardiovascular disease 2 dozen eggs a day isn't going to negatively effect you on a bulking phase of a regimine. I'm not stating to make 2 dozen eggs a day a staple ongoing forever. But during bulking. 8 12 weeks.

And also I'm suggesting eggs since they are cheap and at 18 you are probably on limited funds. Also the post wasn't a diet regimine in whole. The shakes are in addition to 3 real meals a day. The shakes add a cheap but moreover a convenient way to get the calories down.

I've eaten 3 dozen eggs a day myself for a whole winter and never had elevated cholesterol. But I also don't have heriditary propensity to cardiovascular disease. Diabetes is another story. :)

My point was eggs is a great source and the cheapest and a convenient method to get both calories and protein down your gullet. Eating more is a given. My suggestions is a cheap way to do so and safe as long as is for a limited time and 8-12 weeks is limited.

It's not very difficult to prepare 3 shakes pack them in a cooler and bam you got at least 300o convenient calories at your disposal.
Click to expand...


I agree with eggs are a great thing and i also know that eggs do not contribute to cholesterol that much at all. My point was eggs may be cheap, but they should not be the main part of your diet, you need to vary goods up and get protein and other nutrients from different types of food. That was all I was trying to say. Eggs may work well, but I believe there is a better more efficient way to do it. To each his own, if that many eggs works for you, keep it up, for me, I know it wouldn't work that great. I didn't mean any disrespect.
 
No disrepsect assumed. I realized my post needed a little more clarity. On the surface it could have seemed ALL I was suggesting was eggs.
 
HellTownPlaya said:
yeah i know all about dieting my dad used to compete right now my diet looks like this-
morning- oatmeal and as many eggs i can eat

couple hours later-shake, 2scoops protein with one scoop oatmeal w/ banana and 16 oz of skim milk

meal2-lean chicken/beef/ or tuna whichever is readily available,with a carb such as rice or a starch like a baked potato

gym-protein shake after

dinner is usually pretty clean and healthy

depending on the day usually a small meal before bed/ shake

its hard to get all my meals in since i work outside doing landscaping, its all about planning my meals in advance and getting enough rest since i work a lot of hours. i also have daily multi vitamin fish oils and creatine
Click to expand...

If you know 'all about dieting' then why is your diet so poor?.Adding up what you put down here, and even giving you the benefit of the doubt in some places, your caloric total only came to about 2636, and unless you are 5'6 150lbs, that isn't a diet conducive to putting on mass.I know working and eating aren't exactly a match made in heaven, but I've been on the bad end of a shovel for six months straight working 12 hour shifts (don't ask) and still managed to get food in. I know it sounds cheesy, but if there's a will there's a way..
 
Superior1 said:
Let me clarify my post a bit. At 18yo unless every male in your family has a propensity to cardiovascular disease 2 dozen eggs a day isn't going to negatively effect you on a bulking phase of a regimine. I'm not stating to make 2 dozen eggs a day a staple ongoing forever. But during bulking. 8 12 weeks.

And also I'm suggesting eggs since they are cheap and at 18 you are probably on limited funds. Also the post wasn't a diet regimine in whole. The shakes are in addition to 3 real meals a day. The shakes add a cheap but moreover a convenient way to get the calories down.

I've eaten 3 dozen eggs a day myself for a whole winter and never had elevated cholesterol. But I also don't have heriditary propensity to cardiovascular disease. Diabetes is another story. :)

My point was eggs is a great source and the cheapest and a convenient method to get both calories and protein down your gullet. Eating more is a given. My suggestions is a cheap way to do so and safe as long as is for a limited time and 8-12 weeks is limited.

It's not very difficult to prepare 3 shakes pack them in a cooler and bam you got at least 300o convenient calories at your disposal.
Click to expand...

If you are looking for cheap, quality protein sources, I think eggs are good but Tuna is much better. Tuna has about 32g of protein per can (its nearly pure protein) and those cost me $.62 at wal-mart.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
If you know 'all about dieting' then why is your diet so poor?.Adding up what you put down here, and even giving you the benefit of the doubt in some places, your caloric total only came to about 2636, and unless you are 5'6 150lbs, that isn't a diet conducive to putting on mass.I know working and eating aren't exactly a match made in heaven, but I've been on the bad end of a shovel for six months straight working 12 hour shifts (don't ask) and still managed to get food in. I know it sounds cheesy, but if there's a will there's a way..
Click to expand...

Bump to that!! I used to do landscaping too, along with all sorts of construction and rig jobs, and you know what it is actually really easy to eat when you're spose to. Just pack like 4 lunches. You get coffee twice a day right, theres 2 meals, then lunch, thats 3. Then just eat on the go, when you go to get materials, when you change locations, hell even when your waiting for something. Just sneak it in. ANd if you eat every 3 hours your golden. Just make it work. It's not that hard.
For me, eating was the easy part. Having enough energy after work to workout was the hard part.

*Edit- one other thing, you want to be eating sweet potatoes and brown rice. You don't want all that starch.
 
This is off another board, some of you have probly seen it. But it is great. And a great base to start.

Courtesy of PU12:
"Diet:

-Total daily calorie intake. This is what will make / break you
-Total daily calorie intake. This is what will make / break you
-Total daily calorie intake. This is what will make / break you

- It is NOT efficient to try and lost fat AND gain muscle at the same time
- It is NOT efficient to try and lost fat AND gain muscle at the same time
- It is NOT efficient to try and lost fat AND gain muscle at the same time

- BMR and nutrition calculator

- Total Daily Protein Intake (for best results I recommend AROUND 2g per lb of bodyweight)

- Fatloss basics. READ IT:
- Foods (Good vs. Bad):

- If there was ONE SINGLE KEY to the gains I made in the 1 1/2 years when I went from 175-225 (my best.. leanest gains), it is OATS / STEEL CUT OATS ! The emphasis here is that oats / steel cut oats are a INEXPENSIVE, HEALTHY, yet VERY CALORIE DENSE FOOD. I saw lean gains like I had never seen before. But NO THEY DON'T TASTE GOOD. YOU HAVE TO FORCE FEED THEM. This gets old fast. I added about 1 cup of oats to each protein shake.

When bulking (to gain lean muscle mass), I aim for:

- 1lb lean beef per day
- 1 Gallon Skim Milk per day
- Around 2000 cals per day from oats
- Lots of protein shakes (up to 8 per day)
- Lean chicken
- Lean turkey
- Lean beef / sloppy Joes (manwich)
- Hamburger Helper
- Lots of pasta
- Lots of tuna
- Potatoes
- Rice (Note: If you can afford it you can do things like boneless chicken breast, steaks etc.. etc..)
- Veggies (Fresh if possible)

When cutting (to lose fat):

- I eat many of the same foods above, but with a lower TOTAL DAILY CALORIE INTAKE

- I put a emphasis on PRE- and POST-workout nutrition, and the end result is that most of my calories are eaten before my afternoon workout. I have found this to be ideal (for me).




Supplements:

- Supplements / Companies to avoid:

- SAVE $$$$$ ! ! STICK WITH THE BASICS ! ! )

Multivitamin
10 lb bags of Optimum Whey Protein
Creapure Creatine
Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL
or Magnesium Creatine Chelate
Cold Pressed Flaxseed oil (and / or fishoil)

- Stay on creatine, there is no need to cycle it ! (cycling and loading are totally optional)

- Creatine timing (when / how to take it):

- For best results, aim for AROUND 2g of total daily protein intake per lb of bodyweight EVERY SINGLE DAY ! !

Example:

Bodyweight: 200lbs
Total daily protein intake: 400g

Workout / Routine:

- I recommend a MAX-OT, 5x5, HST (or similar) routine with a EMPHASIS ON:- Squatting / Leg pressing
- Deadlifts
- Barbell benchpress (Including flat / decline / incline)
- Both BB's and DB's for best results

- Concentrate more on measurements and less on bodyweight

- Weigh yourself once a week. Should gain (or lose) around 1lb per week (depending on goals).

- Concentrate on form first, in order to stay injury free

- Emphasize both range of motion, and mind-muscle connection

- With intensity, strength gains, and a proper bodybuilding diet, the size gains (or fatloss) will come

- Make sure and have a spotter when working out your major muscle groups, preferrably someone bigger than you

- Don't be scared of overtraining. Simply listen (pay attention) to your body, and ask more questions later if you think you are overtraining.





Cardio:

- If possible, do cardio at least 8 hours from when you lift weights

- If possible, do cardio in the AM after sleeping.

- No need to do cardio on a empty stomach, but many prefer to due to nausea

- Jumping rope is a very efficient form of cardio

- HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) is a efficient form of cardio






Recovery (A.K.A GROWTH !):

- With proper intensity MUST COME PROPER RECOVERY !

- Make sure and get enough protein right before you go to sleep.

- Make sure and get enough protein/carbs right when you wake up

- Make sure and get enough deep, quality sleep (Not getting enough quality sleep is the #1 newbie mistake. You should aim for at least 8 QUALITY hours of sleep per night):

- Make sure and get enough protein / calories on off days (This is when your body will be recovering) It is important to be consistent !

- Make sure and get proper pre and post-workout nutrition:

Carbs pre and post workout.
Protein pre and post workout.
Creatine pre and post workout:

H20 / Cell volumization:

- Make sure and drink enough water throughout the day (This is CRITICAL ! !) I drink about 1 liter per hour. (Keep in mind I am currently over 240lbs so you may not need this much) Click here to read about why this is SO IMPORTANT:

Good luck !

Disclaimer: The above post is IN MY OPINION, or IN MY EXPERIENCE, unless otherwise noted."
 
Superior1 said:
Let me clarify my post a bit. At 18yo unless every male in your family has a propensity to cardiovascular disease 2 dozen eggs a day isn't going to negatively effect you on a bulking phase of a regimine. I'm not stating to make 2 dozen eggs a day a staple ongoing forever. But during bulking. 8 12 weeks.

And also I'm suggesting eggs since they are cheap and at 18 you are probably on limited funds. Also the post wasn't a diet regimine in whole. The shakes are in addition to 3 real meals a day. The shakes add a cheap but moreover a convenient way to get the calories down.

I've eaten 3 dozen eggs a day myself for a whole winter and never had elevated cholesterol. But I also don't have heriditary propensity to cardiovascular disease. Diabetes is another story. :)

My point was eggs is a great source and the cheapest and a convenient method to get both calories and protein down your gullet. Eating more is a given. My suggestions is a cheap way to do so and safe as long as is for a limited time and 8-12 weeks is limited.

It's not very difficult to prepare 3 shakes pack them in a cooler and bam you got at least 300o convenient calories at your disposal.
Click to expand...

don't take this the wrong way but you say you've eaten 3 dozen eggs a day myself for a whole winter, so whats your adominanal region like?

i believe egg whites are the best source of protein but egg yolks are just pure saturated fat.
 
don't take this the wrong way but you say you've eaten 3 dozen eggs a day myself for a whole winter, so whats your adominanal region like?

i believe egg whites are the best source of protein but egg yolks are just pure saturated fat.
Click to expand...
I flucuate between 6%-12% BF.
 
Give us some stats to work with:
weight
height
bf
max bench
max squat

Whey protein, BCAA, multivitamin, fish/flax oil, creatine are all basic supplements in for most.
 
COOK YOUR EGGS. You only get about 50% of the protein from your eggs when u dont cook them. It deals with the cooking process and admin in the egg. I cant remeber exactly but I leanred alot in my college nutrition class. Trust me I use to eat raw eggs also and since switching over I have alot less stomach problems. Which in turn makes me feel better=better gains. Just my $.02
 
Bildo_21 said:
COOK YOUR EGGS. You only get about 50% of the protein from your eggs when u dont cook them. It deals with the cooking process and admin in the egg. I cant remeber exactly but I leanred alot in my college nutrition class. Trust me I use to eat raw eggs also and since switching over I have alot less stomach problems. Which in turn makes me feel better=better gains. Just my $.02
Click to expand...

I agree. I used to put raw egg whites in shakes when I bulked but have since stopped. I eat real clean so every now and then I make an omellete and use the yolks as a source of fat. By the way, nice name we used to call one of my buddies that back in the day LOL
 
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