LeanEngineer
Legend
It's always exciting to see what bloodwork results are after running certain supps for a period of time!
12-16 Week Log SNS AXT/AE/Pepti Plex /PAXT/ MTEST/GFXT
- Thread starter ironfiend23
- Start date
It's always exciting to see what bloodwork results are after running certain supps for a period of time!
ironfiend23
Member
Yes! Looking forward to getting the results to have more insight. Currently running the stack listed above.
ironfiend23
Member
Still waiting on bloodwork.
I have to say...Pump wise I feel pretty damn incredible on this new stack. Wish I was a little leaner to maximize it. Not going to want to cut.
Strength was very good all week. Nowhere near all time PR's but taking it easy on joints for certain moves
Last workout was
180x5 on incline press
Chin up 50lbs 3x 5 ( probably 3-5 RIR)
Shoulder press 65 2x5 60 1x8
Row 80lbs 3x10 ( probably 5 RIR)
Split Squat 200 3x6 ea leg
Leg ext (plate loaded) 125 3x 10,9,8
Leg curl (plate loaded 65 3x7
Currently running
AM
Prime x2
Elite Curcumin x2
Epi Plex x 1
Recomp 20x 2
DCPx 2
Glucovantage x 1
M Testx 3 ( finishing up this week)
Ursa Gel x 6ml
Epi gel x 2 ml
Pine Pollen x 3
Hyperion x 1.5 ml (last bottle will be switching to DHEA gel...depending on blood work)
Pre
Recomp 20x 2
DCP x2
Epi plex x1
Pepti Plex x 4
Post
glucovantagex 1
slintenstity x1-2
DCP x 2
Lean Edge x2
Creatine HCL x 3g
Dinner
GlucoV x2
DCP x 2
Lean Edge x 2
Recomp 20x 2
Prime XT x 2
Epi Plex x1
Pre Bed
Growth Factor xt x4
ZMA XT x 3
Pine Pollen x 3
I have to say...Pump wise I feel pretty damn incredible on this new stack. Wish I was a little leaner to maximize it. Not going to want to cut.
Strength was very good all week. Nowhere near all time PR's but taking it easy on joints for certain moves
Last workout was
180x5 on incline press
Chin up 50lbs 3x 5 ( probably 3-5 RIR)
Shoulder press 65 2x5 60 1x8
Row 80lbs 3x10 ( probably 5 RIR)
Split Squat 200 3x6 ea leg
Leg ext (plate loaded) 125 3x 10,9,8
Leg curl (plate loaded 65 3x7
Currently running
AM
Prime x2
Elite Curcumin x2
Epi Plex x 1
Recomp 20x 2
DCPx 2
Glucovantage x 1
M Testx 3 ( finishing up this week)
Ursa Gel x 6ml
Epi gel x 2 ml
Pine Pollen x 3
Hyperion x 1.5 ml (last bottle will be switching to DHEA gel...depending on blood work)
Pre
Recomp 20x 2
DCP x2
Epi plex x1
Pepti Plex x 4
Post
glucovantagex 1
slintenstity x1-2
DCP x 2
Lean Edge x2
Creatine HCL x 3g
Dinner
GlucoV x2
DCP x 2
Lean Edge x 2
Recomp 20x 2
Prime XT x 2
Epi Plex x1
Pre Bed
Growth Factor xt x4
ZMA XT x 3
Pine Pollen x 3
LeanEngineer
Legend
That's a good pre bed set up. I may have to copy this. I was doing Growth Factor + Stress & Anxiety Support pre bed and it has worked for me. Adding in the ZMA and Pine Pollen would be the cherry on top.
ironfiend23
Member
So blood work is back...
I guess have to take it with a grain of salt because it's a different lab. Suprised Estrogen is high...I would expect it to be low.
Also test is 300pts lower than other lab...shbg is higher.
Surprised since I ran 12 weeks of the original stack with 6 weeks of Hyperion.
Confused as to where to go now. Will keep this stack. I have some leftover arimahex ... I could stack that with the hyperion and eventually XPG Dhea.
I guess have to take it with a grain of salt because it's a different lab. Suprised Estrogen is high...I would expect it to be low.
Also test is 300pts lower than other lab...shbg is higher.
Surprised since I ran 12 weeks of the original stack with 6 weeks of Hyperion.
Confused as to where to go now. Will keep this stack. I have some leftover arimahex ... I could stack that with the hyperion and eventually XPG Dhea.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Bloodwork results from different labs and different testing methodologies can be very different.
That was one of the first things I learned with my endocrinology condition - was that if you wanted accurate testing, you needed to make sure it was done by the same labs and methods. UVA showed me a great example of this - they took blood and did it internally and then sent out to a lab and the results were surprisingly different.
The time of day you do testing can also play a big role in results and consistency of results.
I would not add 6-OXO to what you are doing. That's an ingredient that has always been known to help some people, but some people have seen estrogen increases on it or estrogen rebound from it. Even back in the original ph days when we made a lot of different ph's under CEL and people would ask us for 6-OXO, that's one I was never comfortable offering.
To each their own, I'm very pro personal choice, but I wouldn't add something like that in bc of other variables.
That was one of the first things I learned with my endocrinology condition - was that if you wanted accurate testing, you needed to make sure it was done by the same labs and methods. UVA showed me a great example of this - they took blood and did it internally and then sent out to a lab and the results were surprisingly different.
The time of day you do testing can also play a big role in results and consistency of results.
I would not add 6-OXO to what you are doing. That's an ingredient that has always been known to help some people, but some people have seen estrogen increases on it or estrogen rebound from it. Even back in the original ph days when we made a lot of different ph's under CEL and people would ask us for 6-OXO, that's one I was never comfortable offering.
To each their own, I'm very pro personal choice, but I wouldn't add something like that in bc of other variables.
ironfiend23
Member
sns8778
Board Sponsor
You didn't post the actual numbers, so I have no way of commenting. To be able to do that, I would need to see the numbers before and numbers after - but even then, with it being different labs, its hard to draw a direct comparison.
A good example, I normally use Labcorp. I went to a different lab a couple years ago bc the local Labcorp had flooded during a storm. Results looked like they came from a completely different person.
Also though, I'm limited in what I can comment bc there are products from other companies involved; and the way that works, if I say anything I don't like about even an ingredient, sometimes some companies take that as me saying something negative about them - which its not. There are just some ingredients I don't like and won't use in products for certain reasons.
You're welcome to pm me or email the info if you'd like.
ironfiend23
Member
Oh wow...Lol...I definitely thought I posted them here. Completely understand where you're coming from. Thanks Steve
Test 808 in a ref of 264-916
Free Test 10.4 in a ref of 6.8-21.2
Pregnenolone 40 with a mark ref of <151
Dhea Sulfate 339 with a ref of 102.6-416.2
Estradiol 107 with a ref of 7.6-42.6
SHBG 75.9 with a ref of 16.5-55.9
Test 808 in a ref of 264-916
Free Test 10.4 in a ref of 6.8-21.2
Pregnenolone 40 with a mark ref of <151
Dhea Sulfate 339 with a ref of 102.6-416.2
Estradiol 107 with a ref of 7.6-42.6
SHBG 75.9 with a ref of 16.5-55.9
Last edited:
sns8778
Board Sponsor
It's kind of hard to piece all this together because you've had some interesting abnormalities in your bloodwork, and I suspect some of it may be from using different labs.
Earlier in this thread, we questioned why your total test appeared to be so high to begin with and if that was actually correct or if that an abnormality.
^^^ This is the original post referring to the high testosterone.
^^^ You mention here that prior tests showed high total testosterone and one free test lab showed high and one showed high normal. At the time, I thought you meant lab work at different times, but you may have meant different testing labs.
^^^ Here you are saying your estrogen is normal or low normal, and in other posts you were considering trying to intentionally raise your estrogen levels.
You were stating 125 mg. then - but now in the next post, saying that you didn't understand why they were so high at 107 - but that is actually an 18 point decrease if you were talking about estradiol levels, but you didn't specify.
This looks like a much more realistic total testosterone level - which would make sense with it being a different lab. I don't think that you can directly compare the results from this lab to the prior one. I'm not saying which one is right or wrong, but they're different enough that I don't think you can directly accurately compare them.
Also, note that you posted these as 2 of your free testosterone levels:
Free Test 135.1 on a scale of 35-130
and
Free Test 10.4 in a ref of 6.8-21.2
^^^ so there is no real way to compare the two - and I think also calls into question the results to begin with.
With different labs being used and the numbers looking like they really have no correlation to each other, anyone guessing at this is doing just that - only guessing. The variable of the wildly different results from different labs just makes it truly impossible to really know for sure.
May I ask the reason for using different labs?
Earlier in this thread, we questioned why your total test appeared to be so high to begin with and if that was actually correct or if that an abnormality.
^^^ This is the original post referring to the high testosterone.
^^^ You mention here that prior tests showed high total testosterone and one free test lab showed high and one showed high normal. At the time, I thought you meant lab work at different times, but you may have meant different testing labs.
^^^ Here you are saying your estrogen is normal or low normal, and in other posts you were considering trying to intentionally raise your estrogen levels.
You were stating 125 mg. then - but now in the next post, saying that you didn't understand why they were so high at 107 - but that is actually an 18 point decrease if you were talking about estradiol levels, but you didn't specify.
This looks like a much more realistic total testosterone level - which would make sense with it being a different lab. I don't think that you can directly compare the results from this lab to the prior one. I'm not saying which one is right or wrong, but they're different enough that I don't think you can directly accurately compare them.
Also, note that you posted these as 2 of your free testosterone levels:
Free Test 135.1 on a scale of 35-130
and
Free Test 10.4 in a ref of 6.8-21.2
^^^ so there is no real way to compare the two - and I think also calls into question the results to begin with.
With different labs being used and the numbers looking like they really have no correlation to each other, anyone guessing at this is doing just that - only guessing. The variable of the wildly different results from different labs just makes it truly impossible to really know for sure.
May I ask the reason for using different labs?
ironfiend23
Member
I agree, the multiple labs make it very frustrating. I originally had the first tests covered by insurance. They would not cover the follow up so I paid out of pocket for these.
ironfiend23
Member
The original Estrogen levels showed as normal using their reference ranges it seem. This is pretty high given the current ranges. I was hoping to optimize health and make more precise decisions. But it does all seem useless at this point
sns8778
Board Sponsor
In one post, you said estrogen levels. In the other post, you said Estradiol levels.
Some people use those terms interchangeably, but there actually can be different tests.
Do you know if you were referring to Estradiol with the first test?
The reason I ask that is because I've never seen a range where 125 pg/ml is considered normal for a male to begin with.
I thought that when you originally typed it, but you didn't post the actual labs, you just posted the numbers, so I thought it may have been something different than what I was used to seeing.
Did it show that being normal on your actual lab report or did you look up the range online?
The reason I'm asking is because the range that I know of as normal for males, and this is directly from my own Labcorp bloodwork sheet showing normal ranges, is 7.6 to 42.6 pg/ml. (This matches your reference range for the 2nd test)
If you read it online, then my thought is that maybe there was some confusion bc if you just googled it, it may have shown that range being normal - but it would have meant normal for women, not for men.
Direct copy and paste:
Doctors measure estradiol levels in picograms per milliliter (pg/ml). In premenopausal females, normal estradiol levels are 30 to 400 pg/ml. In postmenopausal females, normal estradiol levels are 0 to 30 pg/ml. In males, normal estradiol levels are 10 to 50 pg/ml.
Last question for this post - what time of the day, if you remember, did you take all of these tests?
The positives from this, if I'm correct and you did misunderstand and misidentify it - would be that your estrogen level actually decreased, not increased. Another positive would be that I can also help with some next steps.
I do think that the different labs has caused a lot of confusion on this. But there's nothing that we can do to go back in time to change that; all we can do is make a plan based off the information that have now.
I'm a little more versed in this stuff, and endocrinology abnormalities bc I have a rare endocrinology condition and have spent an unfortunate amount of my life being referred from one endocrinologist to another - I've had testing done at, and been parts of studies done at both Duke and UVA and had everything up through pituitary MRI's trying to figure out why my hormone levels don't trail one another the way a normal persons does. As much as that sucks, I try to use the things I've learned to try to help other people that may be in odd or unique situations.
ironfiend23
Member
Thanks for your help with this, Steve. I always respect when someone can take a struggle from their own life and turn it into a positive.
I was going off of conversations with the Endo. This most recent test was labeled Estradiol. The prior Estrogen, total, serum.
The tests were both taken fasted at 8am
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I think the inconsistency in the testing - both in labs and what was tested, is going to make this very difficult to figure out.
I wouldn't be worried about it - bc you have no idea what is right or what changed, bc one or the other is inaccurate.
If you want to send me the actual lab results, I'm glad to help further, but would need to see the actual lab results.
ironfiend23
Member
So this week marks one month on the current stack.
Currently running
AM
Prime x2
Elite Curcumin x2
Epi Plex x 1
Recomp 20x 2
DCPx 2
Glucovantage x 1
Ursa Gel x 8 ml
Epi gel x 2 ml
Pine Pollen x 3
Hyperion x 1.5 ml (switching to DHEA Gel this week x 1ml)
Inhibit-E x 1
Polyagia x1
Pre
Recomp 20x 2
DCP x2
Epi plex x1
Pepti Plex x 4
Post
glucovantagex 1
slintenstity x1-2
DCP x 2
Lean Edge x2
Creatine HCL x 3g
Inhibit E x 1
Dinner
GlucoV x2
DCP x 2
Lean Edge x 2
Recomp 20x 2
Prime XT x 2
Epi Plex x1
Inhibit E x 1
Pre Bed
Growth Factor xt x4
ZMA XT x 3
Pine Pollen x 3
Strength was solid at end of last cycle...Took a 9 day deload and have struggled a bit to hit numbers. I've made my #'s for all workouts but it's been a bit of a grind.
The thing that has crushed me the most was last week I did a (too long) cut and got down to 6.8% bf. Then, I was able to maintain 9-12 most of the year. The past few months have been tough with work and kids events and I lost the handle a bit and wasn't getting away with what I had been. Ballooned up to 13-15% . Appetite has been insane.
My thought is a very aggressive cut (PSMF style) over the next 4-8 weeks with 1-2 Free meals per week to keep workouts from being complete trash and keep my wife sane. I would love to get back to 9-10%.
Moving FWD ..
going to increase prime dose to 2 additl caps preworkout
When epi gel runs out I will switch to Carnitine Gel from XPG
Alpha Yohimbe or Yohimbine HCL in mornings- adding in a morning walk before work-goal is 15-20k steps per day (I'm right around 13-15k per day now)
All Out Sweat for Pre workout drink with cals being dropped so hard. Thermoscorch on offdays to keep MitoBurn dose at 1000-1500mg with Lean Edge NB
I have leftover bottles of Triton that I will use on WO days to help with energy.pump for motivation. I stocked up on a sale last year butI've grown to HATE the smell and will use Pump Gel when this is gone
I was thinking of Brite and Epitome to help with appetite but I will need to drop something since the budget and body can only take so much.
Prob chill on the GDA's except for one GlucoV for health purposes and the free meal. I've been on Pepti-Plex for at least six months...I'll have to check but it's at least that long if not longer. Maybe a good time to cycle off and return in the fall.
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Currently running
AM
Prime x2
Elite Curcumin x2
Epi Plex x 1
Recomp 20x 2
DCPx 2
Glucovantage x 1
Ursa Gel x 8 ml
Epi gel x 2 ml
Pine Pollen x 3
Hyperion x 1.5 ml (switching to DHEA Gel this week x 1ml)
Inhibit-E x 1
Polyagia x1
Pre
Recomp 20x 2
DCP x2
Epi plex x1
Pepti Plex x 4
Post
glucovantagex 1
slintenstity x1-2
DCP x 2
Lean Edge x2
Creatine HCL x 3g
Inhibit E x 1
Dinner
GlucoV x2
DCP x 2
Lean Edge x 2
Recomp 20x 2
Prime XT x 2
Epi Plex x1
Inhibit E x 1
Pre Bed
Growth Factor xt x4
ZMA XT x 3
Pine Pollen x 3
Strength was solid at end of last cycle...Took a 9 day deload and have struggled a bit to hit numbers. I've made my #'s for all workouts but it's been a bit of a grind.
The thing that has crushed me the most was last week I did a (too long) cut and got down to 6.8% bf. Then, I was able to maintain 9-12 most of the year. The past few months have been tough with work and kids events and I lost the handle a bit and wasn't getting away with what I had been. Ballooned up to 13-15% . Appetite has been insane.
My thought is a very aggressive cut (PSMF style) over the next 4-8 weeks with 1-2 Free meals per week to keep workouts from being complete trash and keep my wife sane. I would love to get back to 9-10%.
Moving FWD ..
going to increase prime dose to 2 additl caps preworkout
When epi gel runs out I will switch to Carnitine Gel from XPG
Alpha Yohimbe or Yohimbine HCL in mornings- adding in a morning walk before work-goal is 15-20k steps per day (I'm right around 13-15k per day now)
All Out Sweat for Pre workout drink with cals being dropped so hard. Thermoscorch on offdays to keep MitoBurn dose at 1000-1500mg with Lean Edge NB
I have leftover bottles of Triton that I will use on WO days to help with energy.pump for motivation. I stocked up on a sale last year butI've grown to HATE the smell and will use Pump Gel when this is gone
I was thinking of Brite and Epitome to help with appetite but I will need to drop something since the budget and body can only take so much.
Prob chill on the GDA's except for one GlucoV for health purposes and the free meal. I've been on Pepti-Plex for at least six months...I'll have to check but it's at least that long if not longer. Maybe a good time to cycle off and return in the fall.
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Last edited:
Electrake
Active member
Hey! I've been quietly following along for a while. Curious why you want to cycle off this one in particular?
ironfiend23
Member
Hi! I don't necessarily think there is a need to cycle it. Just sometimes I think it may be best to take a break when taking so many other things. Also with adding some fat loss stuff in for a brief stint the budget could use it.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
You definitely don't need to cycle off of Pepti-Plex.
Of course, its personal choice if you want to, but it really depends on priorities and goals.
For me, Pepti-Plex is a great natural anabolic, but its my #1 anti-aging/longevity supplement in my regimen because of how many different benefits it offers - better daily energy, better mood, muscle gains and retention when dieting, and the biggest thing for me is muscle health. Someone said in another thread, and I couldn't put it any better - its like the ultimate anti-aging and longevity product for athletes and people that train.
ironfiend23
Member
Yes, I've liked Pepti Plex...I will use again...that stack above however its getting to be a monthly car payment lol
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I wasn't trying to talk you into staying on it. I was just providing an overview of what it does and wanting to make sure that anyone reading understood it didn't need to be cycled.
ironfiend23
Member
I had seemingly good results with the high dose ursa before . This will be one month on the 6-8ml. I've read before that some people feel Ursa doesn't begin to shine until month 2 or even 3. Has anyone else had this experience? I figured since Fat loss is the goal with muscle retention for the next 6 weeks or so Carnitine gel would be a good addition , just mapping out real estate with DHEA, Ursa and epi as well. Could always just switch to epi plex solo I suppose
Resolve10
Well-known member
I think a lot of people don’t “see” a ton with ursolic acid immediately because it doesn’t provide things like weight changes via glycogen, etc. so the results tend to build more gradually over time until it is like “hey I see it working now!”. It’s muscle preservation and in a deficit or fat mitigation in a surplus may not be as “in your face”, but I don’t think that means it isn’t as beneficial for some people’s goals.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I think that Ursa-Gel starts to work fairly quickly but its the type of supplement that because of what its used for, it takes awhile to visually notice the benefits from for a lot of people.
I've seen some people say that they take it for awhile and then notice a very dramatic difference all of a sudden - I'm not sure if its really kicks in and does all that at once or if its more one of those things where the consistent results and subtle changes add up and one day you look in the mirror and its like - dang, I've lost a lot of fat and gained some muscle.
I think that L-Carnitine Gel is a great stack with Ursa-Gel.
DHEA-50 Gel is great but that's one that I don't think about in terms of cycling. For me, that's a 1 ml per day as part of my general health regimen.
ironfiend23
Member
Week 6 in the books of current stack. I'm on so much stuff lol. Strength has been pretty solid but haven't seen the prime bump that many have talked about. I will be buying the 6 bottle deal so hopefully will have some room to play with doses etc. I'm currently running 7-9. I added in 3-4 pumps of carnitine gel and I feel like it has helped with endurance. Probably the most detectable smell of the xpg gels. All out Sweat added in 3 x week and thermo scorch on other days. Really enjoy that so far.
The ursolic at 8 pumps is getting to be a pain but I plan on doing due diligence and running it for the next 6 weeks.
The ursolic at 8 pumps is getting to be a pain but I plan on doing due diligence and running it for the next 6 weeks.