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11-oxo vs. Lean Xtreme

bigschmidt821 said:
thats what i was reffering to. how can they say it was illegal to Patrick it wasnt banned.
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Way back in the day of designer club drugs they changed the laws to include any kind of copycat drugs that would perform the same way as other banned drugs, basically if the drug does the same thing that caused the banned drug to be banned, they can prosecute on intent.....oh yeah and it sucks
 
anabolicrhino said:
Way back in the day of designer club drugs they changed the laws to include any kind of copycat drugs that would perform the same way as other banned drugs, basically if the drug does the same thing that caused the banned drug to be banned, they can prosecute on intent.....oh yeah and it sucks
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the analog act only applies to schedule I and II

anabolic steroids are schedule III
 
i was told that 3AD will be coming out soon (:yawn:) but let me get this right, 11-oxo is the same thing? (w/o the tris)

PA, is AXs' version a clone?
 
matthew76 said:
i was told that 3AD will be coming out soon (:yawn:) but let me get this right, 11-oxo is the same thing? (w/o the tris)

PA, is AXs' version a clone?
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i know where ur going bro, from the time frames that AX announced 3AD and ErgoPharm did they were around the same time. so no matthew AX does not clone.
 
at the moment ur right there isnt. but when i tried the stack when i tested it i was very found of it. i do believe it will be out before long. and before you say it...sure i am a fool:lol:
 
Patrick Arnold said:
11-oxo is a cortisol blocker and an extremely effective one

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Patrick is the Man....You know your doing something right when the China Pharms are already pumping out adrenosterone;)havn't used 11-oxo yet...not much on the otc stuff,but From the reads about it it all makes good sense...If you wanna send me a bottle Patrick,I'm kewl with that:thumbsup: Maybe you'll get me hooked...
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getswole said:
Patrick Arnold said:
11-oxo is a cortisol blocker and an extremely effective one

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Patrick is the Man....You know your doing something right when the China Pharms are already pumping out adrenosterone;)havn't used 11-oxo yet...not much on the otc stuff,but From the reads about it it all makes good sense...If you wanna send me a bottle Patrick,I'm kewl with that:thumbsup: Maybe you'll get me hooked...
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I thought china has shut down steroid related exports
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Patrick Arnold said:
getswole said:
I thought china has shut down steroid related exports
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For most people yes,I know many who would agree with you...however I know better...This is not true...They're def not selling to every jack/jill that emails them...but Some are shipping...and still producing new stock daily...its much tighter than used to be though...Just like anything,its who you know...I only brought it up because I was made aware of adrenosterone bulk powders the other day...as it was new to the list....Would you like I send you a sample;)of some 11-Hong Kong Fooey
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patrick you should market 'the clear' for us all....Just call it "Not Clear",feds will never know whats up;)
 
Patrick Arnold said:
the analog act only applies to schedule I and II

anabolic steroids are schedule III
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Agreed but right after the "bust" I heard that there was a general agreement among federal prosecutors that they were going after
schedule III analogs as if the were covered by the "analog act" that covers I and II schedules.

They wanted to bring the heat even though eventually the cases could be overturned because technically there is no law.

So, yeah basically a "witch hunt" designed to drive schedule III analog suppliers out of business without all the trouble of passing another law!

Anti E's are more chemically efficient in my opinion but they just don't feel as good as a nice AR antagonist
 
What people aren't realizing is that Epharm and AX are at two opposite corners of the industry. Epharm is a mainstream company that markets to GNC shoppers and such. People pay a lot for their supplements because all of their competition is overpriced as well. AX is an underground supplement company. Underground companies don't market at the same audience. I will admit that I do use an Epharm product (GFpro), but I tend to get more results for my money with AX, IBE, and DS products. Bottom line is that I'm sure some companies would love to be able to charge what Epharm does for their compounds.
 
anabolicrhino said:
Agreed but right after the "bust" I heard that there was a general agreement among federal prosecutors that they were going after
schedule III analogs as if the were covered by the "analog act" that covers I and II schedules.
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i have never heard that, nor have my attorneys (who i would expect to be on top of stuff like that)

was this a rumor or something you know came from a solid source?
 
Beige said:
What people aren't realizing is that Epharm and AX are at two opposite corners of the industry. Epharm is a mainstream company that markets to GNC shoppers and such. People pay a lot for their supplements because all of their competition is overpriced as well. AX is an underground supplement company. Underground companies don't market at the same audience. I will admit that I do use an Epharm product (GFpro), but I tend to get more results for my money with AX, IBE, and DS products. Bottom line is that I'm sure some companies would love to be able to charge what Epharm does for their compounds.
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we don't really have an extraordinary profit margin when all is said and done. we have to go through big distributors and often by the time the products find their way to the end consumer they have been marked up at least a couple of times.

also, the stuff you get from AX, IBE, and DS are often very cheap products that they do make good money from. lots of the synthetic designers and aromatase inhibitors are active in small dosages so a kilo of raw material goes a long way.

6-bromo for instance is cheaper than 6-oxo per kilo and active in lower dosages. But its totally synthetic which makes it illegal under DSHEA (the smaller companies can get away with that crap, not ergo)

yeah AX said they were going to sell 3-ad for alot cheaper but they also said they were gonna have the stuff on the shelves june 1st. Alot of what they were saying back in may might very well have been just to stop people from buying 11-oxo.
 
my bad

Patrick Arnold said:
11-oxo is a cortisol blocker and an extremely effective one

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it is also a prohormone

we market ours as a cortisol because the recommended dosage is one which is effective for cortisol yet underdoses for prohormone effects

we don't hide the fact that it is an androgenic precursor either, as you can see at the end of the article
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i have the up most respect for you ! you know more then i do about prohormones and all other products. for my comment i apologize. i didnt meant to insult you or you comp. i understand that at lower doses 11-oxo is a cort blocker but people should be warned that it can be dangerous and if they go higher. this should be the companies responsibility to do so ( warn people). but anyways hows life ? i caught your hbo interview!
 
ill give it to ya Pat, your funny. Not big on all this drama crap, but I guess it does seem to follow you, so its not entirely your fault. I definetly wish 11-oxo came in higher doses or was more cost effective, but seems to be effective. Got anything new to be released in the near future bro?
 
"yeah AX said they were going to sell 3-ad for alot cheaper but they also said they were gonna have the stuff on the shelves june 1st. Alot of what they were saying back in may might very well have been just to stop people from buying 11-oxo." - PA

that's for sure... i decided not to wait any longer (i know AX, my loss - yadda yadda yadda) i purchased 3 bottles of 11 0X0, and 2 bottles of 6 OXO Extreme...

"i understand that at lower doses 11-oxo is a cort blocker but people should be warned that it can be dangerous and if they go higher. this should be the companies responsibility to do so ( warn people). but anyways hows life ?" - grila jujitsu

i don't think it is their responsibilty, seeing how the bottle states: Directions: Take 3 to 6 capsules per day, with food, for no more than 8 weeks at a time.

Warnings: This product is only intended to be consumed by healthy adult men 21 years of age or older. Not for use by women. Before using this product, consult with your physician if you are using any prescription medicine or if you have any pre-existing medical condition including but not limited to high or low blood pressure, cardiac arrhythmia, stroke, heart, liver, kidney or thyroid disease, seizure disorder, psychiatric disease, diabetes, difficulty urinating due to prostate enlargement or if you are taking a MAO inhibitor or any other medication. Discontinue use and consult your health care professional if you experience any adverse reaction to this product. Possible androgenic side effects include acne, hair loss, increased levels of estrogen and testicular atrophy may occurr. Do not exceed recommended serving. Exceeding recommended serving size may increase the likelihood of these side effects.

my hats off to PA
 
Yo PA, it's a good thing that you're here. I just got a 5lb GFpro in the mail....went to use it and it didn't come with a scoop!!! I was a little disapointed to say the least because I was psyched about trying the blueberry. Think you can help me out here?
 
Beige said:
Yo PA, it's a good thing that you're here. I just got a 5lb GFpro in the mail....went to use it and it didn't come with a scoop!!! I was a little disapointed to say the least because I was psyched about trying the blueberry. Think you can help me out here?
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hahaha...
 
What's so funny bro? This sucks!!! You know how annoying it is to dig through your powders for the scoop when it gets buried at the bottom. Now imagine digging...and digging...and digging some more, and comming up with no scoop.
 
Beige said:
What's so funny bro? This sucks!!! You know how annoying it is to dig through your powders for the scoop when it gets buried at the bottom. Now imagine digging...and digging...and digging some more, and comming up with no scoop.
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lol..sorry man i really thought that was a joke and you were messing with Pat. I suggest you check out the serving size and see how big a scoop is, then use an old one from another protein container thats similar, etc......does suck, buts its not that bad..
 
The serving size is in grams of weight and I don't have a digi currently. Also like a moron I've thrown out all of my old scoops and containers when cleaning the crib. So basically i'm toast...

...that is unless PA wants to save the day...
 
Patrick Arnold said:
i have never heard that, nor have my attorneys (who i would expect to be on top of stuff like that)

was this a rumor or something you know came from a solid source?
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It's a solid rumor:

They do it by prosecuting through the state level where it's easier to get a broad term law to include "non listed" substances as "intent" to break the state laws governing schedule III

This is Florida's 2007 schedule addendum

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(d) Anabolic steroids.

1. The term "anabolic steroid" means any drug or hormonal substance, chemically and pharmacologically related to testosterone, other than estrogens, progestins, and corticosteroids, that promotes muscle growth and includes:

vv. Any salt, ester, or isomer of a drug or substance described or listed in this subparagraph if that salt, ester, or isomer promotes muscle growth.

I am not sure of the Illinois Laws, but at the time of Balco there was major hysteria and the "rumor" was that the feds were going to pressure State legislatures to push through referendums to include schedule III "analogs".

I don't think it quite panned out as the hysteria has died down some.

Keep mix'n !!!
 
john123131 said:
ill give it to ya Pat, your funny. Not big on all this drama crap, but I guess it does seem to follow you, so its not entirely your fault. I definetly wish 11-oxo came in higher doses or was more cost effective, but seems to be effective. Got anything new to be released in the near future bro?
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well the drama stuff is part of my life. its been for a long time. i like to be controversial and i like cyber confrontation, but i don't let it get to me and i don't hold any personal grudges. and i try to be honest and i hope people see that
 
anabolicrhino said:
It's a solid rumor:

They do it by prosecuting through the state level where it's easier to get a broad term law to include "non listed" substances as "intent" to break the state laws governing schedule III

This is Florida's 2007 schedule addendum

Invalid Link Removed


(d) Anabolic steroids.

1. The term "anabolic steroid" means any drug or hormonal substance, chemically and pharmacologically related to testosterone, other than estrogens, progestins, and corticosteroids, that promotes muscle growth and includes:

vv. Any salt, ester, or isomer of a drug or substance described or listed in this subparagraph if that salt, ester, or isomer promotes muscle growth.

I am not sure of the Illinois Laws, but at the time of Balco there was major hysteria and the "rumor" was that the feds were going to pressure State legislatures to push through referendums to include schedule III "analogs".

I don't think it quite panned out as the hysteria has died down some.

Keep mix'n !!!
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its a state thing. ok. i'll mention it to rick or mike
 
Beige said:
The serving size is in grams of weight and I don't have a digi currently. Also like a moron I've thrown out all of my old scoops and containers when cleaning the crib. So basically i'm toast...

...that is unless PA wants to save the day...
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pm me and i will send you a scoop

lemme know the lot number and everything so i can **** with whoever screwed up
 
PA is the man no one can dispute that ! oh and he knows he is the ****! i mean come on he creates some of the best products ever. but i still feel not just his company but all the companies should tell people they are dealing with prohormones. anyways im done with this debate everyone has there own opinion and thats chill with me. I really am ****in tired of waiting for 3-ad i think i will go with 3 bottles of 11-oxo when i go to run my havoc pulse. what do you think of this PA?
 
I used 11 OXO with great success in my last pulse. I used it at recomended doses on off days. I did no get shut down in the least as verified by bloodwork. I feel that its one of if not the best cort blockers out there. After my pulse, I ran it at higher doses and got shredded! Its a great addition to your arsenal.
 
Patrick, since you've been posting on AM, I think the interest level has gone up 1000 percent. You're edgy, but you back up your opinions with science. I know the AX and IBE reps wish you weren't here to upset their applecart, but debate about supps can only help people.
 
grila jujitsu said:
PA is the man no one can dispute that ! oh and he knows he is the ****! i mean come on he creates some of the best products ever. but i still feel not just his company but all the companies should tell people they are dealing with prohormones. anyways im done with this debate everyone has there own opinion and thats chill with me. I really am ****in tired of waiting for 3-ad i think i will go with 3 bottles of 11-oxo when i go to run my havoc pulse. what do you think of this PA?
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our inside salesman is doing havoc and 11-oxo and its working well for him
 
RBKing said:
Patrick, since you've been posting on AM, I think the interest level has gone up 1000 percent. You're edgy, but you back up your opinions with science. I know the AX and IBE reps wish you weren't here to upset their applecart, but debate about supps can only help people.
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thanks

its nice to see more people asking questions instead of believing what every company tells them.
 
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