1-Andro Log / 220mg to 330mg / 1st Time

KvanH

KvanH

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I’m not going to do it. So far I have felt the lethargy and small balls and I’m fine with it. We’ll see how 330mg treats me but I’m erring on the side of just 1-andro this time. I’ve been saving for awhile to do my first cycle so if I need to spend more I can.

I’m technically in a cut but I’m keeping the calories very mildly low. Before on cycle I was losing about .80lbs per week, last time I weighed my weight has actually gone up! Lol and I feel I’ve definitely lost bf. For my calories I’m definitely keeping protein high around 200g /day if not more. The rest I just go by ear. Carb is prob on the medium to low side.
Ok. Just remember if lethargy, achy joints or libido issues get really bad at some point, then something like 4-andro or dhea can help. Epiandro would also help with energy and libido as was recommended earlier, but it would add to the dryness if that is a problem.

I asked about the carbs because of your energy drop in the gym. For me that easily happens if carbs are too low, but this is individual also. Energy drop in as early as in the 3. set is a bit weird though. Maybe it will pass and the next gym sessions are better.
 

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Ok. Just remember if lethargy, achy joints or libido issues get really bad at some point, then something like 4-andro or dhea can help. Epiandro would also help with energy and libido as was recommended earlier, but it would add to the dryness if that is a problem.

I asked about the carbs because of your energy drop in the gym. For me that easily happens if carbs are too low, but this is individual also. Energy drop in as early as in the 3. set is a bit weird though. Maybe it will pass and the next gym sessions are better.
I’m definitely challenging myself each session. Just for reference, I was only able to do 225 x 4 at my highest point before cycle(and let’s just say during that time I was “def eating well above maintenance” lol). Maybe I can even out the weight/power by instead of go for 8 reps on my first set, I’ll save the last 2 and maybe i can get 4 sets of all 6 reps pretty easily. ... they call it load balance isn’t it? Lol. It’s hard not to train to failure while on cycle tho. So for example total weight pressed was 5450lbs (sets x reps). If I did 4 sets of 225 x 6 , it would be 5400...


For joints im also taking fish oil, glucosamine, and hylaudorinc acid. For benching all out each session since on cycle , I’d say the joints are holding out pretty well lol.
 
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Boonfly8

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Interesting thought, normally and naturally men produces 5mg of testosterone a day. If we’re putting in 330mg per day (assuming full absorption), we’re putting in 60x ?
 
ANABOLICWRWLF

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I'd be interested on the link. What kind of run you planning, was it a jump to inj. test?
I was originally thinking that, yes. Now I want to try some other stuff out before going there. I'm going in on the 23rd for blood work and then I'm planning to run Dermacrine, Paradoxine and Ursa Major for around 8 weeks.
 
KvanH

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I was originally thinking that, yes. Now I want to try some other stuff out before going there. I'm going in on the 23rd for blood work and then I'm planning to run Dermacrine, Paradoxine and Ursa Major for around 8 weeks.
Interesting setup. What is Paradoxine? (Yes I could Google it, but you know more of it since you are going to run it).
 
KvanH

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Interesting thought, normally and naturally men produces 5mg of testosterone a day. If we’re putting in 330mg per day (assuming full absorption), we’re putting in 60x ?
1-andro does not convert to testosterone at all. Am thinking the "final substance" it converts to is DHB 🤔 And the conversion rate is very small.

4-andro converts to 4-AD and small fraction of that converts to test. 4-AD is anabolic itself though. I'm guessing the 'standard' approx. 300 mg dosing keeps test levels somewhere near typical levels when not suppressed or running any anabolics. This is just a guess though based on how I feel on 4-andro.
 
ANABOLICWRWLF

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Interesting setup. What is Paradoxine? (Yes I could Google it, but you know more of it since you are going to run it).
Don't wanna derail too much, but Paradoxine is SNSs new grains of paradise offering. Aiming for a recomp.

1-andro does not convert to testosterone at all. Am thinking the "final substance" it converts to is DHB 🤔 And the conversion rate is very small.

4-andro converts to 4-AD and small fraction of that converts to test. 4-AD is anabolic itself though. I'm guessing the 'standard' approx. 300 mg dosing keeps test levels somewhere near typical levels when not suppressed or running any anabolics. This is just a guess though based on how I feel on 4-andro.
Dihydroboldenone (DHB) = 1-testosterone if I'm not mistaken, but as you said, not testosterone. Does it two-step into testosterone at some small rate?
 
KvanH

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Don't wanna derail too much, but Paradoxine is SNSs new grains of paradise offering. Aiming for a recomp.


Dihydroboldenone (DHB) = 1-testosterone if I'm not mistaken, but as you said, not testosterone. Does it two-step into testosterone at some small rate?
I think you are right about dhb = 1-Test. But I don't think there can be any conversion to test. Also I think 1-andro is already a 2 step away from 1-Test. 1-andro (1-androstenedione) -> 1-AD (1-androstenediol) -> 1-test, just like with the 4-andro.

But yeah, I just rub td's to my chest and do biceb curls in the garage so.. Not gonna bet my house on this 😁
 

Boonfly8

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DAY 13 -start 330mg

Decided to up to 330mg starting this morning. Kinda nice having 3 servings for morning, midday, and night. We’ll see if there are additional benefits!

Still gaining on lifts but the rate of gain has slowed. Instead of upping the weight each session like some other noted in their logs I’m progressing by upping 1 or 2 reps. We’ll see how 330mg does.

Might not be related or it may...noticed my skin gets really dry easily especially in feet and hands, to a point where it’ll crack and bleed sometimes, could just be winter though
 
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DAY 16 330mg

Been on 330mg for 3 days and haven’t felt too much of a change in performance yet. As a matter of fact, performance increase seems to be diminishing (plateau?) I’m still very much enjoying the unbelievable rate of recovery but haven’t seen strength increases lately. Few thoughts come to mind:

1. Not eating at a surplus. This is an area of dilemma for me as I am on a slooooow cut but now that I have seen the potential of 1-andro I almost want to eat at minimum maintenance...to maximize gains

2. I could be overtraining ,a little. Each workout I’m hitting compound movements hard and even though the recovery has been on pace I start to feel a little bone instability (could be from the increased dose?) I have been taking fish oil ,calcium, glucosamine and hyduralnic acid since on cycle. For example for flat bench I know the muscles can complete the push but when holding the weight over shoulders (starting position), arms feel a little rattle from the bones..

Other side effects not too bad. I do get lethargy in the morning after first dose but a cup of coffee will set me straight. No acne, blood pressure is fine,no gyno, etc


...do ppl plateau on cycle? Lol
 
ANABOLICWRWLF

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If I had to guess I'd say it's your muscles outpacing your ligaments and connective tissues. Maybe throw in some Cissus? It has helped my joints a lot since adding it in to my dailies.
 

Boonfly8

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If I had to guess I'd say it's your muscles outpacing your ligaments and connective tissues. Maybe throw in some Cissus? It has helped my joints a lot since adding it in to my dailies.
Could be lol. It’s hard not to go all out every session while on this especially recovery is there. What is the name of the product you took?
 
elo76

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Now this just purely my opinion from my experience with multiple andro runs.

What I'm thinking is...you started your first run of something hormonal and got amped up which helped your progress in the gym. I did the same thing my first time. The mind is a powerful thing. The first day I ran Trest, I freaked out because of all the talk of estro issues. It was just in my mind....lol. From my experiences...andros do not work that quickly. You are just over two weeks in right now...sit tight at 330mg ED and keep training hard. I'm betting within the next few weeks, the gains will start to come and you will feel that "On" feeling. I also do predict some lethargy without having a base. I know you said that's out of the question, but I would definitely consider it. I would go with EpiAndro since you are wanting some dryer gains. Put it this way....if you feel like crap...you don't even want to train. DMZ crushed me....even with EpiAndro at 1200.

One thing that I would definitely change...I would get in a caloric surplus. I'm not a fan of cutting on cycle. Use the boost and enhanced protein synthesis to build some muscle and like I said before...do not cut in PCT or you will lose what you gained.
 
ANABOLICWRWLF

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Could be lol. It’s hard not to go all out every session while on this especially recovery is there. What is the name of the product you took?
I'm using SNS Cissus. My knees used to pop every morning putting my socks on and it has gone away, ha ha
 
KvanH

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I'm using SNS Cissus. My knees used to pop every morning putting my socks on and it has gone away, ha ha
Cissus is good stuff. OP could also look into bpc-157.

More supps possibly worth trying for joint support:
MSM
Chondroitin sulfate
C-vitamin

My favorites are Cissus, glucosamine and MSM. Glucosamine takes a few weeks to really start to work it's magic though.
 

Boonfly8

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Now this just purely my opinion from my experience with multiple andro runs.

What I'm thinking is...you started your first run of something hormonal and got amped up which helped your progress in the gym. I did the same thing my first time. The mind is a powerful thing. The first day I ran Trest, I freaked out because of all the talk of estro issues. It was just in my mind....lol. From my experiences...andros do not work that quickly. You are just over two weeks in right now...sit tight at 330mg ED and keep training hard. I'm betting within the next few weeks, the gains will start to come and you will feel that "On" feeling. I also do predict some lethargy without having a base. I know you said that's out of the question, but I would definitely consider it. I would go with EpiAndro since you are wanting some dryer gains. Put it this way....if you feel like crap...you don't even want to train. DMZ crushed me....even with EpiAndro at 1200.

One thing that I would definitely change...I would get in a caloric surplus. I'm not a fan of cutting on cycle. Use the boost and enhanced protein synthesis to build some muscle and like I said before...do not cut in PCT or you will lose what you gained.

Thanks for the thoughts! My bench has always been stuck at 215 x 4, and that's when when on a full on bulking, calorie surplus state. For some reason just can't get above it. It was been this way for a year ( although training has been crap since covid). I remember the first few days taking it I felt light-headed, then the first week I noticed my recovery shot up to the moon, and thus was able to do 225 x 7. Also, my balls have been going out and in (tmi?) So all in all I think i am feeling the effects, at least in recovery. I am not sure what to expect in terms of feeling when it's "full-on" but it is definitely doing something at the moment.

I am going to be at least eating maintenance. In the University study they did, they simply told the subjects to eat until they feel full lol. This has been a dilemma for me because I was going to use it to cut to preserve muscle, and then I read ppl have done both, but in the end, I think I have to pick one. I'm pretty fat (prob 25% bf) and if I bulk with this, and can't cut during PCT, it's going to be awhile when I can cut. I was hoping I'd gain and lose fat at the same time?? lol

I picked up Cissus and will incorporate it with glucosamine and others.
 
elo76

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Thanks for the thoughts! My bench has always been stuck at 215 x 4, and that's when when on a full on bulking, calorie surplus state. For some reason just can't get above it. It was been this way for a year ( although training has been crap since covid). I remember the first few days taking it I felt light-headed, then the first week I noticed my recovery shot up to the moon, and thus was able to do 225 x 7. Also, my balls have been going out and in (tmi?) So all in all I think i am feeling the effects, at least in recovery. I am not sure what to expect in terms of feeling when it's "full-on" but it is definitely doing something at the moment.

I am going to be at least eating maintenance. In the University study they did, they simply told the subjects to eat until they feel full lol. This has been a dilemma for me because I was going to use it to cut to preserve muscle, and then I read ppl have done both, but in the end, I think I have to pick one. I'm pretty fat (prob 25% bf) and if I bulk with this, and can't cut during PCT, it's going to be awhile when I can cut. I was hoping I'd gain and lose fat at the same time?? lol

I picked up Cissus and will incorporate it with glucosamine and others.
Wish I knew this info a while back. When you say "pretty fat", I'm guessing you are > 25%. Most people underestimate their bodyfat...myself included. I would have recommended that you DO NOT start the cycle and cut to < 20% before ever thinking about running anything hormonal.
 
KvanH

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Thanks for the thoughts! My bench has always been stuck at 215 x 4, and that's when when on a full on bulking, calorie surplus state. For some reason just can't get above it. It was been this way for a year ( although training has been crap since covid). I remember the first few days taking it I felt light-headed, then the first week I noticed my recovery shot up to the moon, and thus was able to do 225 x 7. Also, my balls have been going out and in (tmi?) So all in all I think i am feeling the effects, at least in recovery. I am not sure what to expect in terms of feeling when it's "full-on" but it is definitely doing something at the moment.

I am going to be at least eating maintenance. In the University study they did, they simply told the subjects to eat until they feel full lol. This has been a dilemma for me because I was going to use it to cut to preserve muscle, and then I read ppl have done both, but in the end, I think I have to pick one. I'm pretty fat (prob 25% bf) and if I bulk with this, and can't cut during PCT, it's going to be awhile when I can cut. I was hoping I'd gain and lose fat at the same time?? lol

I picked up Cissus and will incorporate it with glucosamine and others.
I would focus on cutting with that bf%. You should be able to gain some muscle while cutting with the 1-andro. Or to do an aggressive cut and not loose muscle mass.

I would expect the 1-andro to really show it's power around week 4 - 5.

It would've been better to cut down some before starting a PH cycle like elo said, but here we are.
 

Boonfly8

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Not too much to report, gains seem to be stagnant. This is more so that I feel my bones are getting worn from overuse. Recovery has still been fantastic but it doesn't help to bench heavy when you feel your bones weak/vulnerable at starting position. I'm going to take thurs/fri off. Cissus should be here as well by then. But I don't think it's dry bones, I think it's overuse...
 
ANABOLICWRWLF

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Not too much to report, gains seem to be stagnant. This is more so that I feel my bones are getting worn from overuse. Recovery has still been fantastic but it doesn't help to bench heavy when you feel your bones weak/vulnerable at starting position. I'm going to take thurs/fri off. Cissus should be here as well by then. But I don't think it's dry bones, I think it's overuse...
All I can think is '' dem bones dem bones dem dry bones" 😆
 

Boonfly8

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3.2g Cissus and 3.6g fish oil currently for me
Right on the money

 
ANABOLICWRWLF

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Right on the money

SNS always hooks it up in the dosage dept. Theirs is 800mg per cap and I take two before breakfast and two before dinner.

I only added this in recently and I was legitimately shocked at the noticeable difference it made within a week or two. I just ordered two more bottles a few days ago. At $17/bottle from DPS it makes it easy to say this will be a permanent addition.
 

Boonfly8

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SNS always hooks it up in the dosage dept. Theirs is 800mg per cap and I take two before breakfast and two before dinner.

I only added this in recently and I was legitimately shocked at the noticeable difference it made within a week or two. I just ordered two more bottles a few days ago. At $17/bottle from DPS it makes it easy to say this will be a permanent addition.
Yeah I’m just researching this and will add it to my daily addition.
 
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Boonfly8

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Been looking through past logs of 1-andro (most from 2016!) and noticed a few patterns

1. it looks like a lot of ppl got clomid for pct! Lol. I got Nolva cause it’s old school and I do have slight gyno from my bf...frankly excited to try it just on that account

2. Mostly mild to no sides , lethargy being the most common

3. Strength comes in week 3 for ppl

4. For some ppl it just didn’t work that well but with others it blew them out of the water.

5. Ppl have ate on a deficit and still gained strength. Few dudes were even intermittently fasting

6. Seems like everyone enjoyed insane recovery rate. Described recovery as hours not days
 
KvanH

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Been looking through past logs of 1-andro (most from 2016!) and noticed a few patterns

1. it looks like a lot of ppl got clomid for pct! Lol. I got Nolva cause it’s old school and I do have slight gyno from my bf...frankly excited to try it just on that account

2. Mostly mild to no sides , lethargy being the most common

3. Strength comes in week 3 for ppl

4. For some ppl it just didn’t work that well but with others it blew them out of the water.

5. Ppl have ate on a deficit and still gained strength. Few dudes were even intermittently fasting

6. Seems like everyone enjoyed insane recovery rate. Described recovery as hours not days
Clomid or Nolva makes no difference here. Clomid works stronger on the hypothalamus and thus creating faster hpta recovery, but in practice they both work just fine. Clomid also has a bigger risk of giving mood swings or bad mood. Some get them some don't.
 

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First Day of Week 4, 330mg

Had a really good workout today. Energy levels and aggression all there

225 x 8
225 x 8
235 x 6 (new all time rep)
245 x 3 (feeling good so fack it, try it)
225 x 4

Weights moved easily till last set, maybe fatigue setting in then who knows. I took last two days off and started cissus mid last week as well. I think the fresh energy helped.

Sides are still minimal at 330mg. The lethargy is there but with a good night sleep and 1 cup of coffee it’s pretty much gone. Still enjoying fast recovery even though begin to feel overuse in bones and tendons. I also notice I’m a little more snappy at times. I think at 330mg I have seen most common sides come and go but extremely mild - so that’s good.

I noticed libido has decreased but the boys are still there. If I don’t rub one out for a few days and then do, there’s let’s just say...VOLUME. So I guess they’re still producing testosterone and not totally or as suppressed?

Hopefully week 4 starts the gravy train of gains! I think might help to set a goal , I’m thinking to shoot for 255 x 5 reps on flat.
 
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Boonfly8

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DAY 24

225 x 10 pr
235 x 7 pr
245 x 5 pr
250 x 3 pr


INSANE. Nothing else describes today’s workout. Not to mention i did chest 2 days ago. Recovery is outstanding and as we can see here , so is performance. Trained after lunch so I had a sandwich (carb up) for lunch and also took a dose preworkout. Maybe that’s the wining combination!

Hopefully this is the true start of gravy train of gains and let’s get some numbers up here. Maybe this thing does take some time to build up in the body ;)
 
ANABOLICWRWLF

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Hell of a day making new numbers! At this rate that 255x5 is right around the corner!

Remember to pace yourself as much as you can stand to though; it's a marathon not a sprint. Increased recovery is badass but not so much that you can abuse yourself endlessly. Keep taking steps forward!

Congrats on the PRs!! 💪
 

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Hell of a day making new numbers! At this rate that 255x5 is right around the corner!

Remember to pace yourself as much as you can stand to though; it's a marathon not a sprint. Increased recovery is badass but not so much that you can abuse yourself endlessly. Keep taking steps forward!

Congrats on the PRs!!
Thank you sir! No doubt very excited about whats happening right now and hopefully this can continue to improve (reasonably) until the end of cycle. I’m definitely cognizant of what my body is telling me and adhere to what it says. Nonetheless all I can do is keep eating well , rest up , and swallow all those cycle support pills right? Lol

Started to test my BP today, np there!

Now if I may , be philosophical for a moment...what is happening here? I know his thing helps with recovery which build muscle (new tissue)faster , but does 1-Andro help with fast twitch firing power as well during a workout such as when benching? What’s the physiology here? I feel very powerful pushing those sets today.
 
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LeanEngineer

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I agree on all the cycle support pills. I think a plate full of pills is my breakfast which probably isn't good but I know i'm getting in all the right vitamins and minerals to keep my organs in check.
 
KvanH

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I agree on all the cycle support pills. I think a plate full of pills is my breakfast which probably isn't good but I know i'm getting in all the right vitamins and minerals to keep my organs in check.
I have been decreasing the amount of (unnecessary) pills I take the last few years. It was amusing at one point when I could barely fit my morning pill dose in my hand 😄
 
KvanH

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Thank you sir! No doubt very excited about whats happening right now and hopefully this can continue to improve (reasonably) until the end of cycle. I’m definitely cognizant of what my body is telling me and adhere to what it says. Nonetheless all I can do is keep eating well , rest up , and swallow all those cycle support pills right? Lol

Started to test my BP today, np there!

Now if I may , be philosophical for a moment...what is happening here? I know his thing helps with recovery which build muscle (new tissue)faster , but does 1-Andro help with fast twitch firing power as well during a workout such as when benching? What’s the physiology here? I feel very powerful pushing those sets today.
Well many AAS affect the cns and improve the nervous system - muscle connection. Now that is a very blunt analysis, but as you may know my native language is not english, so finding translation for proper terms in this topic would be a task. I'm sure you can find more info on Google if no one feels like explaining it better.

On another note as you keep mentioning the train of gains you are hoping/anticipating to come, you could post a bit of information of your training, if you care to. Mostly the rep ranges used would be of interest. Only based on some of these bench pressing sets you've posted I think your training might not be that hypertophy specific.
 

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yeah I split the pills into 2 sessions - morning and afternoon. The morning ones are a bit more lol. I've googled about effects of testosterone and mostly it talks about increased rate of muscle protein synthesis and decreased catabolic activity. None which actually speak to the raw output during a workout session...if any.

I use flat bench as a benchmark just because I always have. I work in the 5-10 rep range, minimum of 5 and if I hit 10 on a set or two, I aim to add more weight. From researchers such as Mike Isratel, since the chest has a lot of fast-twitch muscle fibers, hypertrophy can be generated in medium rep ranges such as 6 -10, not necessarily 12-15. Although when I do accessory or machine work, I definitely keep it up to minimum of 10, if not 12. Perhaps that is what you see on 1-Andro is that, I am able to get into the 8 to 10 rep range fairly fast, and so the last 2 sets or so I try to add more weight and naturally falls into the 5 to 6 rep range. It is a gauge if I should move up for the next session.
 
KvanH

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yeah I split the pills into 2 sessions - morning and afternoon. The morning ones are a bit more lol. I've googled about effects of testosterone and mostly it talks about increased rate of muscle protein synthesis and decreased catabolic activity. None which actually speak to the raw output during a workout session...if any.

I use flat bench as a benchmark just because I always have. I work in the 5-10 rep range, minimum of 5 and if I hit 10 on a set or two, I aim to add more weight. From researchers such as Mike Isratel, since the chest has a lot of fast-twitch muscle fibers, hypertrophy can be generated in medium rep ranges such as 6 -10, not necessarily 12-15. Although when I do accessory or machine work, I definitely keep it up to minimum of 10, if not 12. Perhaps that is what you see on 1-Andro is that, I am able to get into the 8 to 10 rep range fairly fast, and so the last 2 sets or so I try to add more weight and naturally falls into the 5 to 6 rep range. It is a gauge if I should move up for the next session.
Your rep ranges seem to be fine 👍 It was just those few low rep sets of bench that rised the question for me. Mike Israetel knows his stuff, a good guy to take advice from. Changing the rep ranges from time to time is also a good idea or doing different rep ranges every other training session for muscle group for example.
 

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Hey all, haven't updated in a while so gonna put one in.

Middle of week 6, (cycle ends 1/30)

Had a really good chest workout tonight (prob best workout in 2yrs), this is the first time where I feel "i'm taking something". Energy was incredible, just felt like kept going and going, even thought to myself I should change my mailbox to the gym lol! This is great to get some volume in as one can workout longer and get in more accessory exercises . Below are the flat bench sets. I usually do 4, and I think it's a solid set, definitely fatigued by set 4.

225 x 11
245 x 6
245 x 6
245 x 5
185 x 12 (wide grip as a closer set)

Make no mistake that the above load is still challenging, I definitely gave it >90% effort, on that 245 x 5, it was 100% (barely got the bar racked, spotter present but no help needed). Recovery time has not changed and it's been good. However, I mandated myself 2 days between another chest workout even if I feel otherwise. As one can see, the volume is there but definitely need to structure a workout with rest not to fatigue oneself. My ambitions are greater than what my tendons and connective tissues can support so I am mindful of slowing down and listening to my body when a rest is needed.

Sides have been minimal and nothing new to report. Libido has came and go but definitely has not disappeared. This is also true for the balls down there. At this time I realize I cannot feel much of any emotion. I walked back home after gym and saw the beautiful lights and xmas decorations still at the park. My mind registered it is a beautiful sight, but no emotional response or deeper thought. The lethargy is present, but it is extremely manageable. With a good night sleep and only 1 cup of coffee in the morning, it's a non-issue.

Looking forward to haul the last two weeks in for some good gains and move on to PCT. So far I could not be more happier with the progress so far just on 1-andro alone.
 

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I'm surprised to see you having such low sides with running 1-Andro only
Frankly me as well , being the first time on PH I’m pleased I reacted well. The only thing is the tendon/connective tissues fatigue which may be dry bones? Not sure what dry bones would feel like but if it is the former I don’t doubt it cause the amount of volume is there
 
KvanH

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Frankly me as well , being the first time on PH I’m pleased I reacted well. The only thing is the tendon/connective tissues fatigue which may be dry bones? Not sure what dry bones would feel like but if it is the former I don’t doubt it cause the amount of volume is there
Could be dry joints due to low estro, sure. + Added stress on joints due to added strenght and going hard in the gym. I'm doing Smolov Jr for bench right now and my rotator cuffs are quite sore.
 

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