KLEEN LIVING - A log about Life, Training, and Nutrition.

[Segansational]

Daaaaang! That’s a hell of a story! I really need that Tombstone pic in my house lol. Glad you are making waves and making money! It seems hardest to find the balance money/muscle in this day and age, but we make it work.

I recently read something to this effect. That basically balance isn't a thing. You have 4 key areas to life:

Family
Friends
Health
Work

You can't have them be maximal all at the same time. So you have to choose what you dial up and down. And to be truly successful or great in any, you need to turn down at least two. It's called the 4 burner theory (gas stove top analogy).

I feel this at times for sure. Right now my work is really dialing up, in not a good way, and that takes a toll on my family life. I've obviously committed to the health side of things (physical fitness, no alcohol, etc.) and that impacts who I have time for and what used to be a component of my friendships with certain people, so the friend component took a hit.

 

[MrKleen73]

Glad to hear you’re healthy and making money!

Thanks, this year has been chaotic and busy, I can't believe we are 10 weeks into the year and it feels like it should still be January. So good health and money are the highlights for sure.

awesome pictures! loved the bit about your dog lol. My new little cattle dog turns 1yr old here in a week and it cracks me up how she has to lay ON ME all the time. but I guess thats what I wanted and why I got a dog and not a cat haha.

Michael Cain, gotta love him!

View attachment 258575

Oh yeah, he is always laying on me, or leaning on me. He was so pathetic when I came home this time. I couldn't get him to stop following me. Well not following me walking beside me shoulder on my leg, and staring at my face trying to make sure he was in contact with me the whole time. I had to finally just get down on the floor and give him some dedicated love. He is following me to the door now like where you going, and are you coming back????

Those are some really cool pictures…. I really love the animal ones, and the one with Steve McQueen punching is really cool…..he was actually one of Bruce Lee’s top students in Jeet Kune Do, which I’m sure you knew that. I bought my wife a $2000 painting, and that felt a little crazy to me, but man I couldn’t imagine $20000, that’s wild.

Yeah, and i found out that the guy was so far off on the prices you wouldn't believe it. That wolf one was like 150,000, it is one of only 12 original prints. The tiger was over 100,000 to. Pretty insane, and this is a personal collection, not the firms art.

Daaaaang! That’s a hell of a story! I really need that Tombstone pic in my house lol. Glad you are making waves and making money! It seems hardest to find the balance money/muscle in this day and age, but we make it work.

Yeah, it is so cool, it looks layered and 3d so the characters really pop off the background in real life. Agreed sometimes things take a hit.

I recently read something to this effect. That basically balance isn't a thing. You have 4 key areas to life:

Family
Friends
Health
Work

You can't have them be maximal all at the same time. So you have to choose what you dial up and down. And to be truly successful or great in any, you need to turn down at least two. It's called the 4 burner theory (gas stove top analogy).

I feel this at times for sure. Right now my work is really dialing up, in not a good way, and that takes a toll on my family life. I've obviously committed to the health side of things (physical fitness, no alcohol, etc.) and that impacts who I have time for and what used to be a component of my friendships with certain people, so the friend component took a hit.

Good stuff @Segansational, I had not heard the 4 burner theory, but it makes sense. Not everything needs to be seared, and if you try running all 4 on high, something is likely to burn.

So, I have decided to take a slightly different strategy. I had ChatGPT help me create a recovery plan that is going to be more focused on strength training for now. However in a recovery capacity at first. I decided since most of my issues are honestly strength related, I need to strengthen the weakened areas. So strength training for those areas seems to make the most sense. Just with gutter guards to keep things safe. I will incorporate some of the things into any training I do before Monday, but Monday I intend to start focusing on recovery. I have progression rules that will keep me from moving ahead if the checklist isn't met first. The first few weeks will be more about strengthening weak dysfunctional muscles. Lots of core work, glute work, ankle work. Warm Ups are created via activation methods, and mobility drills for either the upper or lower body training. Anyway this is probably the most in detail program I have even thought about doing in a long time. Hopefully starting so low expectation will allow me to feel I am not failing myself since the goal at first is just to become functional again. I have set up things to do when traveling that should keep me in line when I travel. I will also be doing the yoga here twice a week as part of this structure.

I am hoping giving myself a good structure where I am not trying to over reach, but reach adequately until it is safe to over reach again will allow me to feel some success. One of the things I found very familiar was starting with limited ROM, light weight RDL's and the like which have been mentioned over and over here by @Hyde, @Dustin07 , and @SkRaw85 and somehow never snapped I should be doing these and building up to full ROM. So hopefully this new strategy can have me pretty functional in a matter of 3-6 months. I just have to keep myself from my propensity to over reach and push intensity too much.

 

[MrKleen73]

I will try to get into some of your logs soon, I just wanted to give an update, while waiting for a machine to finish loading.

 

[gphagan1]

Sounds like a good smart plan.

 

[Hyde]

RDLs are a great movement, for a lot of purposes. Early/mid ‘24, I couldn’t even do them after my facet joint injury. Eventually they became part of rehab and later warmup/activation stuff. 9 days ago I did a set with 420lbs for 8 reps after my real deadlifting. Took 1.5 years, but they’re still serving me well. The trick is to be mindful why you are using them and focus on that - don’t be greedy or rush progression. They can hurt you as much as help if you don’t let them progress organically.

 

[Dustin07]

I recently read something to this effect. That basically balance isn't a thing. You have 4 key areas to life:

Family
Friends
Health
Work

You can't have them be maximal all at the same time. So you have to choose what you dial up and down. And to be truly successful or great in any, you need to turn down at least two. It's called the 4 burner theory (gas stove top analogy).

I feel this at times for sure. Right now my work is really dialing up, in not a good way, and that takes a toll on my family life. I've obviously committed to the health side of things (physical fitness, no alcohol, etc.) and that impacts who I have time for and what used to be a component of my friendships with certain people, so the friend component took a hit.

haha too funny, I had posted that elsewhere, too. I think the 4 burner theory is worth contemplation!

Post in thread 'HAVEN’T WEIGHT TRAINED IN 3 YEARS-LOOKING FOR ADVICE TO RESTART'

Feb 17, 2026

I actually have 6 jobs
1 60hrs/week
5 freelance contract jobs

Super common theme I see here in these boards and everywhere else in life, but people pack so much **** into their life and then can't figure out why their brains aren't braining right. Nearly everyone is guilty of it, and the folks that are in this board are often more guilty of it because we are driven by nature, thats why we are here squeezing every single drip out of life, supplements, pharma, muscle fibers, glyco stores, each gram of carb, protein, etc. it's a giant metaphor for how we are filling the 24hrs in...

• Dustin07

One of the things I found very familiar was starting with limited ROM, light weight RDL's and the like which have been mentioned over and over here by @Hyde, @Dustin07 , and @SkRaw85 and somehow never snapped I should be doing these and building up to full ROM. So hopefully this new strategy can have me pretty functional in a matter of 3-6 months. I just have to keep myself from my propensity to over reach and push intensity too much.

Man I love RDL's for rehab. when I tore that ligament in my back I swear they saved me!!! And I started HIGH and LIGHT. like load the bar on the rack at thigh height, squeeze the old buttcheeks like I'm in prison and just gradually lower weight. after a year of not being able to pick up 135lbs off the ground, 95lb RDL's (3 x 20, mind you, it was sweat inducing) gave me a new lease on life almost immediately!

 

[MrKleen73]

The last week has been rough, something I did triggered my neck and the stabbing, searing pain in my scapular area and down my arm revisited. It continued to get worse, and I couldn't sleep Monday night, just lied in bed doing my best to deal with it. So I did not go to work yesterday. It is being somewhat managed now by 800mg of ibuprofen, every 4 hours, and an EMU oil based muscle rub 2-3 times a day. Luckily I found a new ART / Chiropractor that is on my new health insurance. His office does full service Rehab as well so basically it should be a one stop shop unless I need surgery. He has a lot of good reviews, and is an IronMan Athlete himself so he gets wanting to train and needing to recover for intense physical activity not just life in general. I got in for my initial visit today, so mostly a consult but I am going to ask if he can at least adjust my neck to see if we can get a little improvement there immediately.

Dietwise, I have not been doing well. Lifting is the thread that holds the desire to do the rest of this stuff correctly. So I keep deciding I want something tasty for dinner instead of what I should be having. Weight is hanging around 210-213. Not making any excuses here, without my hobby, food is my enjoyment, and I have turned to it for comfort. I am aware of it and just haven't gotten sick of holding the extra weight to do anything about it. I know what I need to do, and just have to get a little momentum. I am hoping this ART / Chiro can make some improvements for me so I can get some of that joy from training back. This being afraid to move the wrong way, push to hard, or suffer the nerve pain is mentally debilitating at this point.

 

[gphagan1]

Sorry to hear about your neck…. I know the pain and area you’re talking about, and it is not fun. Hopefully your new ART/Chiropractor can give you an adjustment to give you some relief. I wouldn’t sweat gaining a little weight, because you know when you’re able, and it’s time, you’ll do what you need to do.

 

[MrKleen73]

Sorry to hear about your neck…. I know the pain and area you’re talking about, and it is not fun. Hopefully your new ART/Chiropractor can give you an adjustment to give you some relief. I wouldn’t sweat gaining a little weight, because you know when you’re able, and it’s time, you’ll do what you need to do.

Thanks, yeah, I am not sweating it, I am 15lbs from not really having many complaints, it is a matter of 6-8 weeks with an aggressive cut. I am definitely out of my comfort zone, but still get comments about my physique and being swole somehow... So obviously not as bad as it is in my own head. One of the benefits a big barrel chest, yoked shoulder girdle, and big back is I can be somewhat fat and still look like a physical specimen to most.

 

[Dustin07]

and is an IronMan Athlete himself so he gets wanting to train and needing to recover for intense physical activity not just life in general.

Thats the kinda guy you want in your corner!! I always tell people if your PT or doc doesn't have a goal of making you better than you were before the injury then get a new one!

Weight is hanging around 210-213. Not making any excuses here

This seems sorta light for off season you. Didn't you peak over 230 before you were getting stage ready? Are you feeling super fat? I know as we get older cutting back to where we want to be gets harder (as I'm doing it right now haha) but IDK, 210 just doesn't seem THAT heavy on you for not being "in season"?

ebbs and flows baby ebbs and flows. give yourself grace when things aren't aligned. minimize the damage cautiuosly and soon enough your iron will be hot again, that's when you strike. We all get into a rut on occasion but iron is in your blood.

 

[Dustin07]

what is your current hormonal protocol, just moderate TRT? Is there a safe bump up you could take advantage of to capitalize on mental state?

 

[MrKleen73]

Thats the kinda guy you want in your corner!! I always tell people if your PT or doc doesn't have a goal of making you better than you were before the injury then get a new one!




This seems sorta light for off season you. Didn't you peak over 230 before you were getting stage ready? Are you feeling super fat? I know as we get older cutting back to where we want to be gets harder (as I'm doing it right now haha) but IDK, 210 just doesn't seem THAT heavy on you for not being "in season"?

ebbs and flows baby ebbs and flows. give yourself grace when things aren't aligned. minimize the damage cautiuosly and soon enough your iron will be hot again, that's when you strike. We all get into a rut on occasion but iron is in your blood.

what is your current hormonal protocol, just moderate TRT? Is there a safe bump up you could take advantage of to capitalize on mental state?

Agreed, I always look for a sports related doctors so I know our intent aligns.

I think the highest I hit during my prep was 223 but I was much bigger muscle wise at that point. I have not been able to push since the show. I mustered some maintenance quality work here and there specifically more on upper body, but my legs have gotten much smaller with how sensitive my lower back was and leg extensions really bothering my knee. I would say here almost 2 years later I am probably at my muscular setpoint of what I am able to hold under just general activity. I am in about the same shape as I was last year before Christmas. If I were to guess, I have lost about 10-15lbs of muscle since the high of 223 during prep. That isn't too bad honestly when you consider how much of that was added glycogen and whatnot from being on 1300mgs of gear and in a major surplus with 450g cars a day. If I were to cut to single digits now I would still look like quite a stud about 185 with the mass I am holding now. At 5'7.5 that isn't tiny by any means.

My current protocol is just TRT, when my work schedule got so hectic I cut out the EQ, so it was only for a few weeks, then the schedule changed and it was obvious I wasn't going to be doing anything that the EQ would benefit me on. So I can bump up things, but even at that, I don't think I will just yet. My insurance just changed and I need to go do some bloodwork for my TRT first so they can send my script to my new prescription place. Which is good and keeps me from bumping things before I know I can train to justify them.

I am hoping this new ART guy is more like @Hyde's in guiding me and giving me specific exercises to do. My old ART guy just seemed to get complacent over the years as his business grew it felt like it was more about getting you in and out than offering the same value he did while building the business. I also intend to take the program me and ChatGPT came up with to help recovery and see what he thinks about it and what should be changed if anything. My boss has already told me he would afford me some flexibility to get myself fixed up so gonna do what i can. I do have another trip to Dallas the week of the 16th but I have a good gym at the hotel so it should be good.

In the end, I really want to be able to try to move some damn weight again. It is what I LOVE TO DO! It doesn't have to be powerlifting, but just being able to really challenge myself physically, me against the resistance. That is what I need back in my life, so I just have to figure out a way to get it. If @Hyde can do what he has done in the face of adversity, I can find a way to be able to push myself hard enough to really enjoy training again. That is truly all I want out of this.

 

[Hyde]

I think you are definitely dealing with an impinged nerve in the T or C spine, probably latter if I recall correctly, so a chiro adjustment may very well be the answer. Also talk to him about traction you could try on it if it is the neck. PEA Relief is a supplement you could add that supports management of spinal/nerve inflammation, and obviously anything anti-inflammatory, but not doing offending actions and getting things out of impingement is critical for recovery.

Once that is accomplished, it will be a lot easier to find lifting moves and methods you can perform that will really help you scratch that itch.

And remember - abs are made in the kitchen, not the weight room! I completely understand not lifting meaning you aren’t driven to manage food the same way, but it doesn’t change the truth that composition comes down to food intake. Realize if you don’t like the look, it’s what you choose every day to put in your body that will matter.

It’s perfectly fine to Jo, us, and everyone else if you’re not so lean. But if it’s a problem to you, remember it’s one choice at a time & you can start making better ones this instant.

 

[Dustin07]

If I were to cut to single digits now I would still look like quite a stud about 185 with the mass I am holding now. At 5'7.5 that isn't tiny by any means.

No joke man!!

In the end, I really want to be able to try to move some damn weight again. It is what I LOVE TO DO!

awesome attitude! You will find a way!!

 

[Dustin07]

And remember - abs are made in the kitchen, not the weight room! I completely understand not lifting meaning you aren’t driven to manage food the same way, but it doesn’t change the truth that composition comes down to food intake. Realize if you don’t like the look, it’s what you choose every day to put in your body that will matter.

I'd struggle greatly if my wife and I didn't have a normal routine, almost date-like, of meal prep every Sunday. I know Kleen is good on meal prep, but man that right there cuts out like 80% of my potential bad decision making during the week.

 

[MrKleen73]

More muscular you get, the better you look at higher body fat percentages. I get a lot of compliments on being jacked despite being 25% bodyfat or whatever. I’m not saying that’s healthy, or I wouldn’t look better at 15%, but there’s just enough size overall that it makes my proportions better than the number would otherwise indicate. This is why they say you usually need to lose more weight than you think to get quite lean.

This was quoted from Dustin's log but agreed, I am super thick right now and still getting size and swole comments even though to me I do not look impressive.

I think you are definitely dealing with an impinged nerve in the T or C spine, probably latter if I recall correctly, so a chiro adjustment may very well be the answer. Also talk to him about traction you could try on it if it is the neck. PEA Relief is a supplement you could add that supports management of spinal/nerve inflammation, and obviously anything anti-inflammatory, but not doing offending actions and getting things out of impingement is critical for recovery.

Once that is accomplished, it will be a lot easier to find lifting moves and methods you can perform that will really help you scratch that itch.

And remember - abs are made in the kitchen, not the weight room! I completely understand not lifting meaning you aren’t driven to manage food the same way, but it doesn’t change the truth that composition comes down to food intake. Realize if you don’t like the look, it’s what you choose every day to put in your body that will matter.

It’s perfectly fine to Jo, us, and everyone else if you’re not so lean. But if it’s a problem to you, remember it’s one choice at a time & you can start making better ones this instant.

Yeah, absolutely agree on the impingement, and even as bad as it is right now, it is not as bad as it has been in the past. I managed to train for a bodybuilding comp for a very long time in between this flair up and the last big one. So I am not resolved to being injured for the rest of my days. I know I can strengthen it, and if not I can get it operated on. Preferably the healing and strengthening, but I am not hopeless. Like you said it is about getting that cleared up so I can train hard again.

Agreed, on the diet, abs are made in the kitchen, and I could at least be happy with where I am aesthetically even if not happy where I am with training. I need to get it out of my head I am going to shrink into a nothing burger if I try to lean out while I can not train hard. I mean the reality is that even if I do lose a lot of size, I have the knowledge, genetics, and pharma to put everything right back on once healed if I so choose.

Like you said, it is perfectly fine to everyone else if I am thick, softer and cuddly, but we all also know I do not like being soft and cuddly. Instead of just allowing an overall F-it attitude since i can't train how I want, I should take control of the things that are actually in my control.

Just so you know, I always appreciate you calling me out in a healthy way. We all need to be held accountable, and it is good to have friends who will do that for you when you are having trouble doing so yourself.

No joke man!!


awesome attitude! You will find a way!!

Yes Sir, and thank you for always being one hell of a cheerleader.

I'd struggle greatly if my wife and I didn't have a normal routine, almost date-like, of meal prep every Sunday. I know Kleen is good on meal prep, but man that right there cuts out like 80% of my potential bad decision making during the week.

This is fact for sure. I need to build a structure again, I am an all or nothing kind of guy. So if I am going to be serious about something I need to set up a system of "have to" and "musts", and then work toward sticking to it no matter what.
My instinctive training really only does me justice when I can just go in and push hard in at least a few areas. The pure enjoyment, gymrat love of it keeps me going and constantly pushing for more. However the feeling things out, doing only what feels safe when nothing feels safe is just not conducive to that type of motivation. So, I need to just dive into a nutritional plan and go for it regardless of how I can train. The reality is that having better nutrition is only going to make me improve faster. Getting rid of this belly is only going to make my lower back better, and any improvement is going to make me feel better about myself.

 

[MrKleen73]

I also forgot to mention that for the last few weeks almost all of my training has been core, lower back, and TRX work to increase strength in my upper back / rotator cuff. I have hit them 3 times a week for the last 3 weeks but I pushed a little too hard on the TRX rotator cuff work this past weekend and it is what lit me up, or so I think anyway.

 

[Hyde]

I don’t even want you to think I’m calling you out, not in the sense that you’re speaking nonsense. Your logic is entirely understandable.

I just want to remind you, as a friend, that you are not beholden to only that set of logic one bit - there is an entirely different viewpoint available, that sounds like it would be more in line with your true core values. When we live in ways that honor what we truly value, we will be much happier with every aspect of our lives. You want to be lean, so try to make choices that will help support that. Then regardless of outcome, you will feel better about yourself all around.

 

[Dustin07]

I'm just happy to see you posting lol

 

[MrKleen73]

I don’t even want you to think I’m calling you out, not in the sense that you’re speaking nonsense. Your logic is entirely understandable.

I just want to remind you, as a friend, that you are not beholden to only that set of logic one bit - there is an entirely different viewpoint available, that sounds like it would be more in line with your true core values. When we live in ways that honor what we truly value, we will be much happier with every aspect of our lives. You want to be lean, so try to make choices that will help support that. Then regardless of outcome, you will feel better about yourself all around.

Oh no, not in a negative call out, but a call out to the obvious that sometimes eludes view in challenging situations. We know what I value, and what would obviously make me happier. Reminding a person about their priorities and what is under their control is a positive thing when done correctly. I appreciate you doing that. I always try to do that when I can and I appreciate it when someone cares enough to do it for me.

I'm just happy to see you posting lol

Me too! I will gradually be able to get on a little more but still a few weeks of being pretty busy.

 

[Jimbabwe]

I'm just happy to see you posting lol

Same.

 

[Segansational]

Just so you know, I always appreciate you calling me out in a healthy way. We all need to be held accountable, and it is good to have friends who will do that for you when you are having trouble doing so yourself.

This right here is what it's all about. Sometimes (myself included) we get so wrapped up in our own heads that we need someone outside to objectively assess and tell us to either lock in or zoom out at times. That's what I love about this forum and this general crew.

I don’t even want you to think I’m calling you out, not in the sense that you’re speaking nonsense. Your logic is entirely understandable.

I just want to remind you, as a friend, that you are not beholden to only that set of logic one bit - there is an entirely different viewpoint available, that sounds like it would be more in line with your true core values. When we live in ways that honor what we truly value, we will be much happier with every aspect of our lives. You want to be lean, so try to make choices that will help support that. Then regardless of outcome, you will feel better about yourself all around.

The guru strikes again!

 

[Jimbabwe]

[QUOTE="MrKleen”]

Just so you know, I always appreciate you calling me out in a healthy way. We all need to be held accountable, and it is good to have friends who will do that for you when you are having trouble doing so yourself.

[/QUOTE]

I’ll call you out in an unhealthy way, and do it directly via text so that there is no escape. Just bully you on your own phone that you pay for.

 

[MrKleen73]

Same.

Ditto

This right here is what it's all about. Sometimes (myself included) we get so wrapped up in our own heads that we need someone outside to objectively assess and tell us to either lock in or zoom out at times. That's what I love about this forum and this general crew.



The guru strikes again!

Agreed

259188[/ATTACH]

LMAO!

 

[MrKleen73]

I saw the chiro and PT people yesterday, he was able to pop my thoracic area which has not popped in years. He was also able to get my neck to pop to the side it never pops on. He warned that I might be sore today, and he was right. It is a little worse than yesterday, but hopeful that this is the beginning of healing.

Unfortunately I get the feeling they are kind of a throw everything at it they can get approved place. I definitely don't mind getting adjusted, and doing PT, but man they are pushy trying to get me to do HRT there, and the PRP and stem cell stuff which insurance doesn't cover and I can't afford. They seem a bit pushy on that aspect. Either way, I will give them some time to see if they can help. I don't think this is an ART type of correction so not super stressed we are not doing ART at the moment.

They showed me 2 major areas of concern, one was that my neck is pretty much straight now it is so bound up , so we need to get that moving and get the natural curve back to stop some of the referral pain. Then in my thoracic area it is all gummed and bound up too causing shocking and referral pain around there as well. We shall see how things go, but hopefully I start getting some improvement.

 

[Dustin07]

were they not aware that you are already probably more knowledgeable and experienced in self hormone treatment than they are? The stemcell treatment sounds interesting, I've heard phenomenal things about it, but I have no idea the cost.

 

[MrKleen73]

were they not aware that you are already probably more knowledgeable and experienced in self hormone treatment than they are? The stemcell treatment sounds interesting, I've heard phenomenal things about it, but I have no idea the cost.

Yeah, the lady started asking me about a DHT blocker and I was like UHM NO! Then she asked me why, and I told her it was the main androgen for males. Then she tried to tell me that is why I need the Cialis is that the DHT was causing ED. I said well considering I don't have and have never had ED that has nothing to do with me. I use it to help me urinate easily. Then she says well you don't need DHT because you have testosterone, and i said yes and the main androgenic behavior comes from the DHT created through aromatase. She said well you need an AI then, all estrogen will do for you is making you grow boobs. It was at that point I was like Oh boy, so she doesn't even know that the reason TRT is allowed is to improve the test/estrogen ration for cardio protective purposes. She thinks estrogen is the enemy. No way they are doing my TRT. Plus they wanted me to do pellets, and screw that!!! I don't want to be stuck in a trough for a month out of every 3-4 months. I see how my wifes hormones swing into hot flashes and the like the last 4-6 weeks before she gets her new pellets, on top of that the first 2-3 weeks after she is hyper testosterone and can get a lil aggro.

They are going to do some needling Wednesday, they put Novocain in a syringe and the affected area is needled to break up scar tissue and I assume restart the healing process with the minor damage it imparts. I am guessing this would typically be painful since they add the novocain.

As far as PRP they did not give me a price, but they wanted me to do stem cells too, and the lady told me that is like thousands a bottle so it was completely out of the question. Hopefully this needling thing helps. I had not heard of it, but the insurance covers that so going to give it a shot.

I have to admit that I feel like this might work. I am happy to have someone who can actually get those sticky spots in my spine to move. The last 2 chiros I went to had issues with that. I am going to give this about 4 weeks and if I don't see some improvement I will probably look for somewhere else to go. This place feels more like business is the main goal more so than helping. I don't want to be strung along for what he said was a 34 visit plan. If things aren't already improving I am not going to use up all of my PT uses if there is a chance I may need them for post surgery if things don't improve.

 

[gphagan1]

Yeah, the lady started asking me about a DHT blocker and I was like UHM NO! Then she asked me why, and I told her it was the main androgen for males. Then she tried to tell me that is why I need the Cialis is that the DHT was causing ED. I said well considering I don't have and have never had ED that has nothing to do with me. I use it to help me urinate easily. Then she says well you don't need DHT because you have testosterone, and i said yes and the main androgenic behavior comes from the DHT created through aromatase. She said well you need an AI then, all estrogen will do for you is making you grow boobs. It was at that point I was like Oh boy, so she doesn't even know that the reason TRT is allowed is to improve the test/estrogen ration for cardio protective purposes. She thinks estrogen is the enemy. No way they are doing my TRT. Plus they wanted me to do pellets, and screw that!!! I don't want to be stuck in a trough for a month out of every 3-4 months. I see how my wifes hormones swing into hot flashes and the like the last 4-6 weeks before she gets her new pellets, on top of that the first 2-3 weeks after she is hyper testosterone and can get a lil aggro.

They are going to do some needling Wednesday, they put Novocain in a syringe and the affected area is needled to break up scar tissue and I assume restart the healing process with the minor damage it imparts. I am guessing this would typically be painful since they add the novocain.

As far as PRP they did not give me a price, but they wanted me to do stem cells too, and the lady told me that is like thousands a bottle so it was completely out of the question. Hopefully this needling thing helps. I had not heard of it, but the insurance covers that so going to give it a shot.

I have to admit that I feel like this might work. I am happy to have someone who can actually get those sticky spots in my spine to move. The last 2 chiros I went to had issues with that. I am going to give this about 4 weeks and if I don't see some improvement I will probably look for somewhere else to go. This place feels more like business is the main goal more so than helping. I don't want to be strung along for what he said was a 34 visit plan. If things aren't already improving I am not going to use up all of my PT uses if there is a chance I may need them for post surgery if things don't improve.

Yeah you are definitely more knowledgeable than them on anabolics, hormones, nutrition and exercise. I see that in almost every Doctor I go to, so I pretty much tell them, look your an expert in “this” and that’s why I came to you, all the other stuff I’ve got that covered….It does sound like they gave you a good adjustment. Every time they adjust my neck, when it’s out, I may experience some soreness, but within a couple of days it’s like new. So I do think those adjustments will help, and if you can afford some of the extra it all usually will help inflammation and faster recovery.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah you are definitely more knowledgeable than them on anabolics, hormones, nutrition and exercise. I see that in almost every Doctor I go to, so I pretty much tell them, look your an expert in “this” and that’s why I came to you, all the other stuff I’ve got that covered….It does sound like they gave you a good adjustment. Every time they adjust my neck, when it’s out, I may experience some soreness, but within a couple of days it’s like new. So I do think those adjustments will help, and if you can afford some of the extra it all usually will help inflammation and faster recovery.

Yeah, some of the extras are covered, and honestly if PRP wasn't too bad I would be willing. I am now doing research on the Trigger Point Injections. They put me on a neck stretcher for 10 minutes yesterday, it felt good to have that opened up, and I think it was a big part of me him getting my neck to pop on the side that never pops since my accident over 20 years ago. This would probably be the 2nd or 3rd time in that period my neck was able to pop to that side.

 

[Dustin07]

They put me on a neck stretcher for 10 minutes yesterday, it felt good to have that opened up, and I think it was a big part of me him getting my neck to pop on the side that never pops since my accident over 20 years ago. This would probably be the 2nd or 3rd time in that period my neck was able to pop to that side.

kinda reminds me of how/why Louie made the reverse hypers as I understand it...

 

[gphagan1]

Yeah, some of the extras are covered, and honestly if PRP wasn't too bad I would be willing. I am now doing research on the Trigger Point Injections. They put me on a neck stretcher for 10 minutes yesterday, it felt good to have that opened up, and I think it was a big part of me him getting my neck to pop on the side that never pops since my accident over 20 years ago. This would probably be the 2nd or 3rd time in that period my neck was able to pop to that side.

Yeah I’m really fortunate that I have a really good chiropractor and ART therapist that work together, and they are a part of the local College’s medical team, so they are very good. I’ve had a herniated disk in my neck for years that will flare up and pinch nerves periodically, and to be honest if I didn’t have such a good Chiropractor I probably would have needed surgery, but he always fixes me up. Those neck stretchers are great and really help with pinched nerves. My guy does a stretching technique with his hands every time I come in, whether my neck or shoulder blades hurt or not. They start with the massage therapist gives a good 15 minute massage and she gets everything nice and loose, and works out any tightness or knots, then the Chiropractor comes in and adjusts and pops anything that’s out of alignment, and then he’ll start at the head and neck and start stretching everything working down the body all the way to the ankles….ha it feels like I add another inch of height by the time I leave. For me the Chiropractor, ART guy, and massage therapist are necessities for my old butt to stay as active as I do.
It sounds like, even though they were a little pushy with you, that they may be one of those clinics that have a pretty complete therapy team and may work out good for you. Ha, they just need to stay in their lane and not worry about hormone advice…just tell them you’ve got that covered.

 

[MrKleen73]

kinda reminds me of how/why Louie made the reverse hypers as I understand it...

Yeah, I believe it helps with lower spine mobility, and opening them up a bit with the rocking motion of the hips.

Yeah I’m really fortunate that I have a really good chiropractor and ART therapist that work together, and they are a part of the local College’s medical team, so they are very good. I’ve had a herniated disk in my neck for years that will flare up and pinch nerves periodically, and to be honest if I didn’t have such a good Chiropractor I probably would have needed surgery, but he always fixes me up. Those neck stretchers are great and really help with pinched nerves. My guy does a stretching technique with his hands every time I come in, whether my neck or shoulder blades hurt or not. They start with the massage therapist gives a good 15 minute massage and she gets everything nice and loose, and works out any tightness or knots, then the Chiropractor comes in and adjusts and pops anything that’s out of alignment, and then he’ll start at the head and neck and start stretching everything working down the body all the way to the ankles….ha it feels like I add another inch of height by the time I leave. For me the Chiropractor, ART guy, and massage therapist are necessities for my old butt to stay as active as I do.
It sounds like, even though they were a little pushy with you, that they may be one of those clinics that have a pretty complete therapy team and may work out good for you. Ha, they just need to stay in their lane and not worry about hormone advice…just tell them you’ve got that covered.

Yeah, I am trying to not have this idea in my head they are going to try to wring me out of money. I basically told them I am good on hormones, I have a PCP. The fact that after I told her the stem was out of the question for the money she wasted another 10 minutes of my time trying to convince me why I needed it. Hey Lady... If i could afford that I would already be doing that. I don't need you to try to chastise me into it. She is a foreign lady, so I don't know if she is just a super aggressive sales person, or if she doesn't have the personal boundaries we tend to have here in the US. Either way, her pushiness would have normally had me walking out, but I really wanted that adjustment. This is why I am only willing to give them a month to see some improvement. If I don't feel the juice is worth the squeeze I will go elsewhere. My number 1 goal this year above any other fitness goal is to have this addressed this year. Either get strong and recover, or get surgery if required.

With AI and everything right now, I want to get this fixed while I have a job just incase AI causes a job cut in a year or two I want this already taken care of. That, and i just want to be able to train again. Not just workout, but train towards a goal.

 

[Dustin07]

honestly I saw too many 80s and 90s movies, anything near my neck freaks me out.

 

[Hyde]

See you gotta get pellets cause they’re low maintenance, plug ‘n play bro.

Then you gotta get an AI because the pellets aren’t that stable on estrogen, since release dosage booms then busts over time.

Then you want Finasteride to block the surge of DHT towards the beginning to keep you calm, and so you don’t go bald of course.

Then we have Tadalfil to get your pecker working again since the DHT blocker gave you PFS.

Plus you can take our PT141 peptide to help with your lacking libido now. And you can buy our overpriced bac water to reconstitute it, because it’s extra pure.

Don’t forgot our proton pump inhibitor to fix the acid reflux our Cialis is giving you. We’ll also write you a script for topical minoxidil, to help you suddenly start regrowing the hair you haven’t had for over a decade.

Well also refer you to our partner hair transplant facility, and IV/vitamin therapy bar. Hit us up on Facebook, & don’t forget to add us on Instagram. Like/Subscribe to our YouTube for weekly wellness tips! Promo code in the description.

 

[Hyde]

The neck stretching, adjustments and trying to break up tissue around the upper back & spine do sound exactly like what I’d expect you should be doing, for the record.

Just keep it in the lane & focused on a solution, not a maintenance plan. You may need one, but not til after you see big benefits first.

 

[MrKleen73]

See you gotta get pellets cause they’re low maintenance, plug ‘n play bro.

Then you gotta get an AI because the pellets aren’t that stable on estrogen, since release dosage booms then busts over time.

Then you want Finasteride to block the surge of DHT towards the beginning to keep you calm, and so you don’t go bald of course.

Then we have Tadalfil to get your pecker working again since the DHT blocker gave you PFS.

Plus you can take our PT141 peptide to help with your lacking libido now. And you can buy our overpriced bac water to reconstitute it, because it’s extra pure.

Don’t forgot our proton pump inhibitor to fix the acid reflux our Cialis is giving you. We’ll also write you a script for topical minoxidil, to help you suddenly start regrowing the hair you haven’t had for over a decade.

Well also refer you to our partner hair transplant facility, and IV/vitamin therapy bar. Hit us up on Facebook, & don’t forget to add us on Instagram. Like/Subscribe to our YouTube for weekly wellness tips! Promo code in the description.

It is almost like you were a fly on the wall. When she started on the hormones as soon as she said estrogen does nothing for a man but grow boobs I started looking at her like she was lost but offering directions. My face just glassed over, and I am sure the look was like "I am not buying a word of what you are saying." She finally just stopped, with a look of resignation on her face, and said any questions for me. When I said no, she reiterated something and asked if i was sure I didn't have questions. I said, "No, no questions, I am here to get my treatment going. Who else do I have to talk to before we get started?" Two minutes later I was working with the physical therapists.

The neck stretching, adjustments and trying to break up tissue around the upper back & spine do sound exactly like what I’d expect you should be doing, for the record.

Just keep it in the lane & focused on a solution, not a maintenance plan. You may need one, but not til after you see big benefits first.

That was my thought too, if I can keep them from trying to push me into other things I think it is probably a good facility. They seem to have a good operation outside of the one practitioners pushiness. So I am going to keep going for a while to see if they are able to help. I think if we can get the spine moving and a little space between vertebrae for the nerves I should be good, or at least to a point things are manageable. Then we can discuss a maintenance plan.

 

[Dustin07]

Was she at least fit?
I always receive nutrition or drug advice from people who probably couldn't finish a flight of stairs or bench press their weight. Like the tiny guy giving me a tour at the new gym years ago "oh yeah, stock up on peanut butter, great choice for protein". Maybe for your ectomorphic build bro.

I never see jacked dudes offering "free" advice like that or telling you what you 'need' to take. and if I'm going to get pharma help I'm going to go to people who have accomlished something with it like you and Hyde.

I shouldn't be, but to this day I am always still somehow amazed at how many of my friends are so quick to jump on questionable medications, ozempic, etc but refuse to eat a salad, do a little cardio, try fasting, or lifting weights. Sadly my canary in the colemine buddy running TRT is on ozempic as well now. He's 68 and in my opinion has kept massive muscularity for an older gentleman so I always felt he was my IRL field test on the TRT. But he refused to join me at the gym, now he's on ozempic, down 30lbs this year and looks like he's wasting away. no more delts, which to me, shoulders are always a tell tale sign for older men losing muscle mass.

 

[Dustin07]

I really rabbit trailed there.

 

[MrKleen73]

Was she at least fit?
I always receive nutrition or drug advice from people who probably couldn't finish a flight of stairs or bench press their weight. Like the tiny guy giving me a tour at the new gym years ago "oh yeah, stock up on peanut butter, great choice for protein". Maybe for your ectomorphic build bro.

I never see jacked dudes offering "free" advice like that or telling you what you 'need' to take. and if I'm going to get pharma help I'm going to go to people who have accomlished something with it like you and Hyde.

I shouldn't be, but to this day I am always still somehow amazed at how many of my friends are so quick to jump on questionable medications, ozempic, etc but refuse to eat a salad, do a little cardio, try fasting, or lifting weights. Sadly my canary in the colemine buddy running TRT is on ozempic as well now. He's 68 and in my opinion has kept massive muscularity for an older gentleman so I always felt he was my IRL field test on the TRT. But he refused to join me at the gym, now he's on ozempic, down 30lbs this year and looks like he's wasting away. no more delts, which to me, shoulders are always a tell tale sign for older men losing muscle mass.

Yeah, for an older lady she is in great shape. She is in most likely in her early 60's boob job, miniskirt, nice legs, nice form actually. She has to work out to still be in that kind of shape, or have AMAZING genetics.

I really rabbit trailed there.

Nothing wrong with that. We all do it sometimes.

I have been fasting this morning, and took my walk at lunch. I may eat tonight, I haven't decided just yet. If so, I will keep it nice and clean. Start getting some of this extra weight off. I need less Dad bod, and more Sexy Mutha Fukka!

 

[Dustin07]

boob job, miniskirt,

 

[gphagan1]

 

[MrKleen73]

Whew, really feeling the back today. It woke me up about 3:45 this morning and I just couldn't find a comfortable position. So, I just tried to rest as much as I could until my alarm went off. I took meds a couple hours ago and it helped but still feel like I have a live wire inside my midback radiating up and over to my shoulder. At least it is a lower voltage right now, but it won't stop unfortunately.

I have another appointment at my chiro today, hoping it will be helpful. They said they will be doing the Trigger point injections, so that should help with the pain. They put lidocaine in a syringe and then needle the scar tissue to break it up and create trauma so it can start healing again. Apparently somehow the lidocaine can provide 4-6 weeks of lower pain levels which often allows the muscles around the area to relax making more room for the nerves as well. So we shall see how things go after this.

Has anyone one in here had the Trigger point Injections therapy?

 

[Dustin07]

no injections for me, but definitely have had fantastic results from soma massage therapy. I have been blown away by sessions that took me from crippling pain to feeling like I never got hurt. although the session itself can be painful. they are nothing like the couples massages I have had with my wife where she tells me later I was snoring

 

[gphagan1]

Whew, really feeling the back today. It woke me up about 3:45 this morning and I just couldn't find a comfortable position. So, I just tried to rest as much as I could until my alarm went off. I took meds a couple hours ago and it helped but still feel like I have a live wire inside my midback radiating up and over to my shoulder. At least it is a lower voltage right now, but it won't stop unfortunately.

I have another appointment at my chiro today, hoping it will be helpful. They said they will be doing the Trigger point injections, so that should help with the pain. They put lidocaine in a syringe and then needle the scar tissue to break it up and create trauma so it can start healing again. Apparently somehow the lidocaine can provide 4-6 weeks of lower pain levels which often allows the muscles around the area to relax making more room for the nerves as well. So we shall see how things go after this.

Has anyone one in here had the Trigger point Injections therapy?

My wife gets trigger point injections periodically because of MS pain. For her they will do the neck and shoulder blade area, then in 30 days they will do the middle back, then another 30 days they will do the lower back. They help her when she is having a flare up or attack. She only has to get them about twice a year. Really the only reason they separate the injection sites by 30 days is that’s how insurance covers them. It’s frustrating because insurance companies dictate so much in our healthcare.
They should help you, if they get the right spots. I’m really not sure how long they last, because her pain is so connected to MS attacks or flare ups and the inflammation and nerve pain associated with that. But 4 to 6 weeks sounds about right.
She has one procedure they do when she is having MS nerve pain, from the nerves being exposed because of the myelin being damaged, that’s the nerve insulation that wraps the nerve like a wire’s insulation. Anyway when that happens they do injections with another chemical that will cauterize the damaged nerves to provide about 6 months of relief while they heal. Not saying you would need that, it’s just the right Doctor can do wonders these days with all the procedures they have. Again though a lot of it is dictated by what insurance will cover, because most of those procedures are very expensive.
I hope it works for you, and will help bridge the gap with pain relief until you heal.

 

[MrKleen73]

no injections for me, but definitely have had fantastic results from soma massage therapy. I have been blown away by sessions that took me from crippling pain to feeling like I never got hurt. although the session itself can be painful. they are nothing like the couples massages I have had with my wife where she tells me later I was snoring

Yeah, I have had some amazing deep tissue type of massages that really worked. The chiro I was going to regularly for a while was better at massage than her chiro work.. She couldn't get everything to pop on me, but she used her elbows and knuckles like a champ. I could feel scar tissue peeling off and felt much better after. She got me through my injuries the last several months going into my show, but we had a difference of opinion during my last visit and when I saw her at the gym after that she basically avoided me, then asked when I was coming back to see her a few weeks later, and I was like Nah... not going to work with someone who acts like that.

How funny, they think this will be romantic, and then the buzzsaw starts 15 minutes in. LMAO

My wife gets trigger point injections periodically because of MS pain. For her they will do the neck and shoulder blade area, then in 30 days they will do the middle back, then another 30 days they will do the lower back. They help her when she is having a flare up or attack. She only has to get them about twice a year. Really the only reason they separate the injection sites by 30 days is that’s how insurance covers them. It’s frustrating because insurance companies dictate so much in our healthcare.
They should help you, if they get the right spots. I’m really not sure how long they last, because her pain is so connected to MS attacks or flare ups and the inflammation and nerve pain associated with that. But 4 to 6 weeks sounds about right.
She has one procedure they do when she is having MS nerve pain, from the nerves being exposed because of the myelin being damaged, that’s the nerve insulation that wraps the nerve like a wire’s insulation. Anyway when that happens they do injections with another chemical that will cauterize the damaged nerves to provide about 6 months of relief while they heal. Not saying you would need that, it’s just the right Doctor can do wonders these days with all the procedures they have. Again though a lot of it is dictated by what insurance will cover, because most of those procedures are very expensive.
I hope it works for you, and will help bridge the gap with pain relief until you heal.

Thanks for the info, while different issues the idea that it was beneficial at all gives me hope. If they get it in the right spot then I will probably be good to go. One cool thing is that she did tell me they had an ultrasound device to use to pinpoint where the scar tissue is so that they can get it in the right spot. I think with what we are doing if I can get a month out of the injection that perhaps we can get the spine moving a little more there and when it wears off maybe I will have recovered enough not to immediately fall apart once it wears off. I will let you all know if she used the ultrasound or not, they may only pull that out for the PRP, and or Stem cell injections.

 

[gphagan1]

Yeah, I have had some amazing deep tissue type of massages that really worked. The chiro I was going to regularly for a while was better at massage than her chiro work.. She couldn't get everything to pop on me, but she used her elbows and knuckles like a champ. I could feel scar tissue peeling off and felt much better after. She got me through my injuries the last several months going into my show, but we had a difference of opinion during my last visit and when I saw her at the gym after that she basically avoided me, then asked when I was coming back to see her a few weeks later, and I was like Nah... not going to work with someone who acts like that.

How funny, they think this will be romantic, and then the buzzsaw starts 15 minutes in. LMAO

Thanks for the info, while different issues the idea that it was beneficial at all gives me hope. If they get it in the right spot then I will probably be good to go. One cool thing is that she did tell me they had an ultrasound device to use to pinpoint where the scar tissue is so that they can get it in the right spot. I think with what we are doing if I can get a month out of the injection that perhaps we can get the spine moving a little more there and when it wears off maybe I will have recovered enough not to immediately fall apart once it wears off. I will let you all know if she used the ultrasound or not, they may only pull that out for the PRP, and or Stem cell injections.

Oh yeah I forgot that part….they do use an ultrasound to locate the areas where they need to inject, so they usually are very accurate and right on the money when they do it. The first time they did it years ago, my wife was very nervous and hesitant. Now she actually looks forward to it, because they help her so much.

 

[Dustin07]

Yeah, I have had some amazing deep tissue type of massages that really worked. The chiro I was going to regularly for a while was better at massage than her chiro work.. She couldn't get everything to pop on me, but she used her elbows and knuckles like a champ. I could feel scar tissue peeling off and felt much better after. She got me through my injuries the last several months going into my show, but we had a difference of opinion during my last visit and when I saw her at the gym after that she basically avoided me, then asked when I was coming back to see her a few weeks later, and I was like Nah... not going to work with someone who acts like that.

How funny, they think this will be romantic, and then the buzzsaw starts 15 minutes in. LMAO

The best massage therapist I ever had told me that its always the leanest most muscular guys who experience the most pain during those sessions. Great ego boost for me cause it hurt bad. Then I found out she and her husband were swingers and she ended up hooking up with this other dude so now I don't know if I was actually lean and muscular or if she just was just fishing

sad thing is she was really fantastic. one of my athletes I had the honor of coaching back then went to the xfit games (the big million dollar purse event) and made like top 12 in the world in the 50+ age bracket and she and I both felt this woman was the best massage therapist.

My wife gets trigger point injections periodically because of MS pain

not to keep spamming all of AM with my RLT propaganda but when I saw your post my brain got to wandering so I did a little research, and there are some interesting things to be said on RLT with folks dealing with MS. maybe its worth exploring?

 

[MrKleen73]

Oh yeah I forgot that part….they do use an ultrasound to locate the areas where they need to inject, so they usually are very accurate and right on the money when they do it. The first time they did it years ago, my wife was very nervous and hesitant. Now she actually looks forward to it, because they help her so much.

Yeah, unfortunately insurance is being slow to approve the injections, if they even will. It is ridiculous how much we pay for insurance to have to fight any time you want to use it for what it is supposed to be for.

The best massage therapist I ever had told me that its always the leanest most muscular guys who experience the most pain during those sessions. Great ego boost for me cause it hurt bad. Then I found out she and her husband were swingers and she ended up hooking up with this other dude so now I don't know if I was actually lean and muscular or if she just was just fishing

sad thing is she was really fantastic. one of my athletes I had the honor of coaching back then went to the xfit games (the big million dollar purse event) and made like top 12 in the world in the 50+ age bracket and she and I both felt this woman was the best massage therapist.



not to keep spamming all of AM with my RLT propaganda but when I saw your post my brain got to wandering so I did a little research, and there are some interesting things to be said on RLT with folks dealing with MS. maybe its worth exploring?

View attachment 259295

That or she was calling you a !!!! Also maybe she was just fishing and couldn't set the hook with you.

Went to dinner last night with @Jimbabwe and his lovely lady. It was great to see him again, he is looking sharp, lean, wide shoulders, traps popping. You can see he has been putting in the work. Anyway, it was awesome to catch up with him in person.

 

[MrKleen73]

Unfortunately, I will not be able to get any treatments next week. I will be working in Dallas, but I can still do the neck stretches and some other things to try to make a little progress.

 

[Smont]

Yeah, unfortunately insurance is being slow to approve the injections, if they even will. It is ridiculous how much we pay for insurance to have to fight any time you want to use it for what it is supposed to be for.

That or she was calling you a !!!! Also maybe she was just fishing and couldn't set the hook with you.

Went to dinner last night with @Jimbabwe and his lovely lady. It was great to see him again, he is looking sharp, lean, wide shoulders, traps popping. You can see he has been putting in the work. Anyway, it was awesome to catch up with him in person.

When I was in my early 20's my buddy got married to a nurse. He had some medical issue and his insurance didn't want to pay it. The next year he got on his wife's insurance and opted out of his employers insurance. He started putting $200/month in a account that was going to be like his emergency fund and over the years it's turned into like $45k.

If he had continued to pay insurance through his job all these years it would be $38,000 + he paid as of today and during this time he's used his wife's insurance like 3 times for minor stuff.

Insurance is a scam in a sense, but it's always something you need just in case. In many situations they just have everybody by the balls so you got to keep paying just in case