Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Gops "who Don't Believe In Evolution" !!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
anabolicrhino

anabolicrhino

Well-known member
Invalid Link Removed

I don't believe that I care what these guys believe when it comes to evolution,..just balance the f*cking budget and save some lives, will ya !!!
 
Can a person who dismisses all the evidence and facts that the greatest scientific minds on our planet all agree on then balance a budget or "save lives"? Maybe, but it doesn't inspire me with any confidence.
 
I didn't watch the video, but people who "don't believe" in evolution make me so damned frustrated that I don't know what to say. What I don't understand is where the idea that religion and science are mutually exclusive came from.
 
I belive in some aspects of evolution, such as adaptation. But do you guys really belive that humans wiggeled out of the sea, then mutated into some kind of monkey and then into what we are today. I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. There is no scientific proof of this. Where is the so called missing link. The big bang therory is even more of a joke.
 
AFOX said:
I belive in some aspects of evolution, such as adaptation. But do you guys really belive that humans wiggeled out of the sea, then mutated into some kind of monkey and then into what we are today. I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. There is no scientific proof of this. Where is the so called missing link. The big bang therory is even more of a joke.
Click to expand...

At the time rudimentary lungs developed (most likely some form of mutation) they were not classifiable as "human". So, no, humans did no "wiggel (sic) out of the sea, mutate into monkeys, etc".

You should probably read more about natural selection, and its demonstratability. There are plenty of "transition species", in spite of what the anti-evolution kooks like to spout.
 
So do you belive that we are one of those " transition" species ? If so, could you elaborate on how we have transitioned. I have an open mind, but it seems to me that science can only guess about human evolution. I stated that I believe in natural adaptation and natural selection. I belive that science can not explain everything. I'm not 100% anti evolution, but I belive with all my heart that there is a God who created us.
 
AFOX said:
I belive in some aspects of evolution, such as adaptation. But do you guys really belive that humans wiggeled out of the sea, then mutated into some kind of monkey and then into what we are today. I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. There is no scientific proof of this. Where is the so called missing link. The big bang therory is even more of a joke.
Click to expand...

first of all, they are discovering transitional species all the friggin time. at one point evolution nuts were drawing pictures of ridiculous amphibian like sea-to-land transitional species to make fun of the idea. 2 or 3 years ago they discovered fossils of an animal looking almost exactly like the satirical drawing religion nuts were using to mock evolution.

evolution isnt some "random" process. it is a highly ordered and specific process.

there is SO much evidence for evolution that it is truly overwhelming.

the reason that people refuse to accept the idea of evolution is because if evolution is correct and god did not create the world as stated in genesis (which story by the way, there are two completely different stories...durr) then the rest of the bible goes out the window.

people want the comfort of having everything answered for them, and the bible provides that for them. if there is a replacement for one idea (which is a religious "truth") then it discredits all other ideas.

what i find even more disgusting is that the religious nuts now know they are losing the evolution vs. creation battle so they have changed the word creation to "intelligent design" and are now trying to blend evolution and creationism together.

first of all, dont mix your anachronisms with modern science. second, it is just a ploy to keep "god" in the process at all costs.

if we followed this way of thinking wed still think earth was the center of the solar system.

give it up retards.
 
So are you an atheiest then? I belive that God created everything for a purpose, and evolution is just one of his ways of regulating all the creatures of the earth. Human ego and intellect get in the way of believing in God. Having faith has never been easy for me either, but I have searched my soul, and I belive in God. I also belive that he sent his son Jesus Christ( my Lord and savior) to die on the cross for man's sins. I guess I'm just another one of those damn religious "retarted" nuts. The truth will be reveled one way or another. Either I die and there is nothing, or I die and go to Heaven to be with the Lord in paradise forever. I don't know about you, but I like option two. I know that I'm more than flesh and blood. I'm not going to get into a debate on this topic, because the debate could go on forever. Science and religon do coexist, because God created science.
 
first of all its retarded, not retarted:)

"I don't know about you, but I like option two." I know you do, very appealing isnt it?

Evolution is god's way of regulating creatures on earth. hmm i dont see that passage in the bible can you point that one out for me? you know that 300 years ago if you had agreed to evolution in any way shape or form you would probably be sitting in a jail cell right now?

you believe that jesus came down and blah blah blah? what about muhammed? buddha? oh thats right...your storybook is right and the other ones are wong. gotcha chief.

god created science? you are aware that catholicism is the #1 detriment to scientific progress, as it has been for ages, right? do you still believe that the earth is the center of the solar system. btw, santa claus is real.
 
Actually I feel a lot like you do, AFOX. Why don't you believe that God intended for early single-cellular organisms to evolve into more complex ones? And what in the world does Heaven have to do with this topic?
 
Yeah, I got a little off topic. Like I said, I do not want to get into a debate, ecspecially with a condescending prick like jomi822. It seems that at 25 he has it all figured out. I do belive that God intended for evolution. Are there any Christians reading this thread who would like to express your opinions and beliefs? Thank you m4gnum for responding in a positive way. I think there can be a healthy positive discussion here, without bashing people for their beliefs.
 
yea go ahead and pull the age card, im glad to see youre using a relevant defense.

normally i wouldnt bash anyone for their beliefs...unless they are dangerous. this religious dogma bull**** causes death, war, intolerance, combination of church and state, and the prevention of scientific progress.

people went from taking the bible literally, to taking some points of it figureatively, to "just look for the religious message", and now were trying to meld religious dogma with science? i cannot think of a more perverted combination.

there is no jusifiable reason to believe religious dogma over scientific fact. none whatosever.

the sooner people stop worshipping storybooks created by men 2000ish years ago the sooner the religious wars and religious nuts will disappear.
 
Why couldn't have god just caused evolution itself, I don't see a reason for this big debate. Science and religion can fit together as long as you don't take religion literally at every turn. Theres no reason both can't coexist in some aspects.
 
well thats the whole issue...

what is better at explaining things? religion or science?

you really cant have it both ways.
 
This is a topic that I have spent many, many hours of my life contemplating. I am not an overly religious person, but I understand that everyone has a different opinion and perspective. I used to try to convince others to my side, but that is a waste of everyones time. You can choose not to believe in evolution, but there is an overwhelming body of evidence supprting evolution.

The only time that any theology becomes bad is when intolerance and subsequent violence take over. Moderation is stressed about everything else in life, so why can't religion be something included in that philosophy?
 
Here's my philosphy:

The bibles basic set of rules...the 10 Commandments...are a great set of rules to live your life by. They basically say, be a good person and treat others good.

My problem with religion is when people begin to judge others (lets not forget, the bible does say that god is the only judge). But these same people who judge others pick and choose what parts of the bible they want to follow. I mean, the bible does say that if you have a problem with eyes that wander, then you should remove your eyes. Don't know about you, but I haven't seen too many people wandering around lately without eyes. There's a lot more examples but I'll keep it simple.

Also, most modern day Catholics use the NKJV of the bible. A quick history lesson will tell you that King James became upset with the Roman Catholic Church when they would not grant him a divorce. So, having the power he had, he had the book re-written to accomodate him. But if you are going to read and worship out of a book, shouldn't it be the old testament, I would have to imagine it's a bit closer to the actual scriptures than the one King James had written.

And my last point...

For thousands upon thousands of years there have been many many religions...The greeks and romans had there theology, native americans had horses, mother nature, ect. In fact, the Hawaiin's never heard of Jesus until missionaries came and "saved" them.

But for the generations around the world other than the middle east area that were alive and died prior to missionaries coming and passing along the word of the good book, does this mean that even though they had no previous knowledge of Jesus or God that they are doomed to spend an eternity in hell? Just doesn't add up for me. I've asked several people from several different religious backgrounds this same question and no one can seem to give me an answer.

I fault no one for having religious beliefs because it gives people a moral compass. My only request is that until people stop picking and chosing which parts of the bible they want to follow and take it as a whole, then don't try to throw it in my face and tell me that I'm damned to spend an eternity in hell (to which, I've been told on several occassions).

At the end of the day, the 1st Amendment of the United States says that I have religious freedom and shall not be discriminated upon for my beliefs and therefore, I can not discriminate upon others for their beliefs. So how about if you believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want to believe and as long as we treat each other with a common respect then the world will be a better place to live.
 
firefighter2032 said:
At the end of the day, the 1st Amendment of the United States says that I have religious freedom and shall not be discriminated upon for my beliefs and therefore, I can not discriminate upon others for their beliefs. So how about if you believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want to believe and as long as we treat each other with a common respect then the world will be a better place to live.
Click to expand...

But the Pogo-Sticking Leprechauns that control all actions, and that fractured into EVIL leprechauns and GOOD leprechauns have obviously taken control of some people's minds and are using them to corrupt the youth of the country in order to lead us all into slavery. I as a good 'Chaunian am forced morally to fight against this threat to the children and eliminate these evil-doers.

So...since my beliefs are just fine with you, you cannot discriminate since you are nobody to judge, and since all are equally valid then I am free to act on the beliefs that I hold equal to scientific truth since I "know it in my heart of hearts to be true"...then you won't mind if I torture and kill you in order to rid the world of your evilness?

Or, to be put more timely, you won't mind if I get Evolution banned in school and force them to teach the Intelligent Unicorn theory of Creationism, since it says it is true in My Pretty Holy Pony Chapter 15, verse 11?
 
Dr Liftalot said:
Why couldn't have god just caused evolution itself, I don't see a reason for this big debate. Science and religion can fit together as long as you don't take religion literally at every turn. Theres no reason both can't coexist in some aspects.
Click to expand...

A god who caused evolution ?

O k that does seem plausible.

It's just that I would think that the whole evolution thing would be mentioned somewhere in the bible. You know cuase it seems like such a big deal and all.

Maybe it is mentioned in the original bible, but after 1000 years of spoken word translations by the elders,followed by a few politically motivated translations into a written word version, that could only be understood by about 2% of the population
it was omitted.

So, now you are left with two choices;One discounting the entire bible based upon the lack of scholarship and academic research to present the known facts free from the known misinterpretations of the known facts

The other forgiving the bible for omitting the biggest of facts (evolution) and leaving humanity to play this cruel game of "guess where we came from?"

So, either god loves to f*ck with people or he does not exist in any form as presented in the bible.

next question ?:rofl:
 
My fault dsade...I wrote my response at 3 in the morning but I'll take my blame for not completely writing out my thoughts but I was afraid I was becoming too long winded.

I could honestly care less if someone wants to worship their washer and dryer and call it their god. As long as they don't cause harm to others in doing so.

There's no disputing it, more people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason. Religion has and is used to pursuit political agenda's. They use it as a cover as to why they are doing things that have no other logical reasoning behind it. Been the same throughout history.

God (per the bible) is responsible for 2,270,365 (not including the victims of Noahs flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, and the many plagues and famines). Satan on the other hand is responsible for 10 (the 7 sons and 3 daughters of Job's).

IMO....religion was created to control mankind....

To break a man and make him surrender you make him get on his knees and bow before you (just like when you pray).

You can control people by controlling their sex. Sex is one of our 3 basic needs. So why, would someone or a group want to control something like that....control.

And fear, some people are not religious because they feel the love of god, they are religious and "believe" because they fear the wrath of god. So many are forced into submission because they don't want to spend eternity in hell.

But again, at the end of the day IMO if religion causes people to be better people, then I don't believe I have the right to dispute their beliefs. But to have wars and to kill in the name of god is just ridiculous.
 
firefighter2032 said:
My fault dsade...I wrote my response at 3 in the morning but I'll take my blame for not completely writing out my thoughts but I was afraid I was becoming too long winded.

I could honestly care less if someone wants to worship their washer and dryer and call it their god. As long as they don't cause harm to others in doing so.

There's no disputing it, more people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason. Religion has and is used to pursuit political agenda's. They use it as a cover as to why they are doing things that have no other logical reasoning behind it. Been the same throughout history.

God (per the bible) is responsible for 2,270,365 (not including the victims of Noahs flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, and the many plagues and famines). Satan on the other hand is responsible for 10 (the 7 sons and 3 daughters of Job's).

IMO....religion was created to control mankind....

To break a man and make him surrender you make him get on his knees and bow before you (just like when you pray).

You can control people by controlling their sex. Sex is one of our 3 basic needs. So why, would someone or a group want to control something like that....control.

And fear, some people are not religious because they feel the love of god, they are religious and "believe" because they fear the wrath of god. So many are forced into submission because they don't want to spend eternity in hell.

But again, at the end of the day IMO if religion causes people to be better people, then I don't believe I have the right to dispute their beliefs. But to have wars and to kill in the name of god is just ridiculous.
Click to expand...

bingo, couldnt have said it better myself.

i dont think religion makes people better people. people created religion, and morals and laws created in each. religion doesnt dictate morality, people do.
 
Good posts Jomi and Firefighter...

There really is no point in debating religious people, as the arguments they make in their defense are:
1. Just look around you!
2. The Bible says so (and it's the word of god)
3. Millions of people believe
4. So & so recovered from a terminal illness, my house was saved from a natural disaster, etc...
5. God is outside all of the natural laws

I have debated the more "crazy" religious people (the ones that quote Bible verses in every sentence), so it really is pointless.
Maybe it'd be worth it to debate those "moderate" religious people that have doubt...
 
EESCHMan said:
Good posts Jomi and Firefighter...

There really is no point in debating religious people, as the arguments they make in their defense are:
1. Just look around you!
2. The Bible says so (and it's the word of god)
3. Millions of people believe
4. So & so recovered from a terminal illness, my house was saved from a natural disaster, etc...
5. God is outside all of the natural laws

I have debated the more "crazy" religious people (the ones that quote Bible verses in every sentence), so it really is pointless.
Maybe it'd be worth it to debate those "moderate" religious people that have doubt...
Click to expand...


I only have a problem with religion when it is taken to its extremes. I can't remember their names, but that church that was basically celebrating the deaths of soldiers and parading around the funerals is a perfect example of perverting the message that religion sends.
 
Rodja said:
I only have a problem with religion when it is taken to its extremes. I can't remember their names, but that church that was basically celebrating the deaths of soldiers and parading around the funerals is a perfect example of perverting the message that religion sends.
Click to expand...

That's the Westboro Baptist Church.
All of its members are in the same family-yikes!

This Australian tv show punked them here

Invalid Link Removed
 
Rodja said:
I only have a problem with religion when it is taken to its extremes. I can't remember their names, but that church that was basically celebrating the deaths of soldiers and parading around the funerals is a perfect example of perverting the message that religion sends.
Click to expand...

but honestly, how much do you respect someone that claims to believe in something, but refuses to live by those beliefs? Or someone who half-heartedly commits to believing in anything?

In order to be consistent, these religious "nuts" actually HAVE to act like that, or else how can they claim that what they believe is truly what they believe?

I mean, if I believe that "X is the only thing that is good and right, and everyone that does not believe X is evil", then proceed to hang out with people that don't believe X, give them money by patronizing their business, voting for them etc...what does that make the person that claims to believe X?
 
dsade said:
but honestly, how much do you respect someone that claims to believe in something, but refuses to live by those beliefs? Or someone who half-heartedly commits to believing in anything?

In order to be consistent, these religious "nuts" actually HAVE to act like that, or else how can they claim that what they believe is truly what they believe?

I mean, if I believe that "X is the only thing that is good and right, and everyone that does not believe X is evil", then proceed to hang out with people that don't believe X, give them money by patronizing their business, voting for them etc...what does that make the person that claims to believe X?
Click to expand...

I personally follow a religious appreciation mentality. To me, the religious experience is cheapened when you isolate yourself to certin set of principles and refuse to expand beyond those parameters. I actually really enjoy listening to someone else speak about their own theology, but I am absolutely appalled when they only talk about the things that are wrong within a society.

I have had many debates with intolerant Christians and it is amazing how many deny the parallels to Judaism and that it took religious appreciation for Constantine to change the religion of the Roman Empire the Christianity. To grow as a whole, we need to listen to everyone and realize that there will always be differences of opinion. However, that does not make any one person better than the other.
 
anabolicrhino said:
A god who caused evolution ?

O k that does seem plausible.

It's just that I would think that the whole evolution thing would be mentioned somewhere in the bible. You know cuase it seems like such a big deal and all.

Maybe it is mentioned in the original bible, but after 1000 years of spoken word translations by the elders,followed by a few politically motivated translations into a written word version, that could only be understood by about 2% of the population
it was omitted.

So, now you are left with two choices;One discounting the entire bible based upon the lack of scholarship and academic research to present the known facts free from the known misinterpretations of the known facts

The other forgiving the bible for omitting the biggest of facts (evolution) and leaving humanity to play this cruel game of "guess where we came from?"

So, either god loves to f*ck with people or he does not exist in any form as presented in the bible.

next question ?:rofl:
Click to expand...

Well, the way i imagine, it is:

People back then had no idea what the sun was let alone big bang or anything along those lines. So if God tried to explain those things they would only understand bits and pieces and be able to digest it in terms they could understand. Meaning metaphors, or out of context, and translation. There are plenty of explanations that lead me to believe it was as if I were to explain a car to a cave man. In a sense, he would understand that the machine moved at a great speeds but would have no idea what caused this or any of the essentials.

Read this
Invalid Link Removed


Another thing to keep in mind, what causes two creatures to become co-dependent. Take bees and flowers, how could to life forms that aren't even from the same species gain the knowledge or the ability to work together? As far as I know nether species is smart enough to figure out they could use each other. So what does it, I believe in a sense god. Another good question that works well with evolution. How does a species actually gain adaptation, many smaller cell organisms evolve and take on new characteristics. Now how can a small cell organism do this? Theres no intelligence, therefore there must be a greater power and mechanic to the machine.(God being the mechanic and life being the Machine. I believe all can be explained and god wants us to advance and join him one day threw understanding the machine which is life.(USING SCIENCE!)


So i guess we can all get along after all!

:-)
:cheers:
 
Dr Liftalot said:
Well, the way i imagine, it is:

People back then had no idea what the sun was let alone big bang or anything along those lines. So if God tried to explain those things they would only understand bits and pieces and be able to digest it in terms they could understand. Meaning metaphors, or out of context, and translation. There are plenty of explanations that lead me to believe it was as if I were to explain a car to a cave man. In a sense, he would understand that the machine moved at a great speeds but would have no idea what caused this or any of the essentials.

Read this
Invalid Link Removed


Another thing to keep in mind, what causes two creatures to become co-dependent. Take bees and flowers, how could to life forms that aren't even from the same species gain the knowledge or the ability to work together? As far as I know nether species is smart enough to figure out they could use each other. So what does it, I believe in a sense god. Another good question that works well with evolution. How does a species actually gain adaptation, many smaller cell organisms evolve and take on new characteristics. Now how can a small cell organism do this? Theres no intelligence, therefore there must be a greater power and mechanic to the machine.(God being the mechanic and life being the Machine. I believe all can be explained and god wants us to advance and join him one day threw understanding the machine which is life.(USING SCIENCE!)


So i guess we can all get along after all!

:-)
:cheers:
Click to expand...

There is a theory of collective consciousnessInvalid Link Removed that may explain some of these questions. I think its fun to explore all possibilities.
I really enjoy websites, like the one you linked. thanks!
 
Dr Liftalot said:
Another thing to keep in mind, what causes two creatures to become co-dependent. Take bees and flowers, how could to life forms that aren't even from the same species gain the knowledge or the ability to work together? As far as I know nether species is smart enough to figure out they could use each other. So what does it, I believe in a sense god. Another good question that works well with evolution. How does a species actually gain adaptation, many smaller cell organisms evolve and take on new characteristics. Now how can a small cell organism do this? Theres no intelligence, therefore there must be a greater power and mechanic to the machine.(God being the mechanic and life being the Machine. I believe all can be explained and god wants us to advance and join him one day threw understanding the machine which is life.(USING SCIENCE!)


So i guess we can all get along after all!

:-)
:cheers:
Click to expand...

bees and flowers didnt automatically develope their relationship in a day. there is no intelligence involved in the issue. flowers need the aid of bees to pollinate, bees need nectar. its really that simple. why do we have to bring god into it?

many smaller cell organisms evolve and take on new characteristics. thats about as far as you needed to go with that point. obviously single celled organisms dont have intelligence. you have intelligence, wouldnt it be convenient to be able to fly or lie out in the sun all day and photosynthesize your glucose?

intelligence has nothing to do with new physical characteristics. natural selection and small genetic mutatations over hundreds of millions of years are what produce new characteristics and life forms, not intelligence.

the problem here is that evolution, more or less a scientific absolute truth at this point, survives perfectly without god or religion.

religions really cant survive with the theory of evolution...unless you scramble things up a bit, concede some points, and overall just overlook all of the facts to hold onto the dying anachronism known as religion.
 
AFOX said:
So are you an atheiest then? I belive that God created everything for a purpose, and evolution is just one of his ways of regulating all the creatures of the earth. Human ego and intellect get in the way of believing in God. Having faith has never been easy for me either, but I have searched my soul, and I belive in God. I also belive that he sent his son Jesus Christ( my Lord and savior) to die on the cross for man's sins. I guess I'm just another one of those damn religious "retarted" nuts. The truth will be reveled one way or another. Either I die and there is nothing, or I die and go to Heaven to be with the Lord in paradise forever. I don't know about you, but I like option two. I know that I'm more than flesh and blood. I'm not going to get into a debate on this topic, because the debate could go on forever. Science and religon do coexist, because God created science.
Click to expand...


If evolution is gods way of regulationg all the creatures on earth, than why is he allowing us darn humans to take over.
 
jomi822 said:
bees and flowers didnt automatically develope their relationship in a day. there is no intelligence involved in the issue. flowers need the aid of bees to pollinate, bees need nectar. its really that simple. why do we have to bring god into it?

many smaller cell organisms evolve and take on new characteristics. thats about as far as you needed to go with that point. obviously single celled organisms dont have intelligence. you have intelligence, wouldnt it be convenient to be able to fly or lie out in the sun all day and photosynthesize your glucose?

intelligence has nothing to do with new physical characteristics. natural selection and small genetic mutatations over hundreds of millions of years are what produce new characteristics and life forms, not intelligence.

the problem here is that evolution, more or less a scientific absolute truth at this point, survives perfectly without god or religion.

religions really cant survive with the theory of evolution...unless you scramble things up a bit, concede some points, and overall just overlook all of the facts to hold onto the dying anachronism known as religion.
Click to expand...

My point being that how does one object change over time? How does a cell start displaying new characteristics? Also you didn't explain Bee's and Flowers became co-Dependant. Theres no doubt they are and they adapted to befit each other. But even with millions of years(time aside) What causes two things that are unlike to work together. Its not like one day the Bee got up and said to the flower. You give me nector and I'll pollinate other flowers for you? How would a flower realize that a bee could carry its pollen? And according to evolution Bees/Flowers weren't always on this planet.

Also what would cause a small mutation that conveniently becomes the right adaptation for the surroundings? If things were always randomly mutating we'd have allot of worthless non-functioning creatures and don't give me the spill about natural selection. Because there would be allot of things out there that would survive but have allot of useless mutations.
 
Dr Liftalot said:
My point being that how does one object change over time? How does a cell start displaying new characteristics? Also you didn't explain Bee's and Flowers became co-Dependant. Theres no doubt they are and they adapted to befit each other. But even with millions of years(time aside) What causes two things that are unlike to work together. Its not like one day the Bee got up and said to the flower. You give me nector and I'll pollinate other flowers for you? How would a flower realize that a bee could carry its pollen? And according to evolution Bees/Flowers weren't always on this planet.

Flowers get pollinated in other ways, such as the wind. Bees just optimize the process. I think its more amazing that flowers have both male and female sex organs, otherwise the bees would just be nectar thieves!

Also what would cause a small mutation that conveniently becomes the right adaptation for the surroundings? If things were always randomly mutating we'd have allot of worthless non-functioning creatures and don't give me the spill about natural selection. Because there would be allot of things out there that would survive but have allot of useless mutations.
Click to expand...

Evolution is just a theory!

The evidence is reverse engineered through de-constructing the dominant species. A scientist will see that the "meat eaters" dominate the planet, so eating meat must be a dominant characteristic.

It is almost like revisionist history, in that we cannot examine the process as an "intelligent choice", because we don't know that it was the "intelligent" choice, until it is proven through the progression of dominance within the given biosphere!

Then, we look back and say oh yeah, that was the intelligent choice.

Stupid dinosaurs!

Here is a new viral on the subject !
Invalid Link Removed
 
anabolicrhino said:
Evolution is just a theory!

The evidence is reverse engineered through de-constructing the dominant species. A scientist will see that the "meat eaters" dominate the planet, so eating meat must be a dominant characteristic.

It is almost like revisionist history, in that we cannot examine the process as an "intelligent choice", because we don't know that it was the "intelligent" choice, until it is proven through the progression of dominance within the given biosphere!

Then, we look back and say oh yeah, that was the intelligent choice.

Stupid dinosaurs!

Here is a new viral on the subject !
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

BTW I'm against teaching Intelligent Design in the science room, I am just giving perspective as to how it could all fit together.

Dr liftalot
 
Dr Liftalot said:
My point being that how does one object change over time? How does a cell start displaying new characteristics? Also you didn't explain Bee's and Flowers became co-Dependant. Theres no doubt they are and they adapted to befit each other. But even with millions of years(time aside) What causes two things that are unlike to work together. Its not like one day the Bee got up and said to the flower. You give me nector and I'll pollinate other flowers for you? How would a flower realize that a bee could carry its pollen? And according to evolution Bees/Flowers weren't always on this planet.

Also what would cause a small mutation that conveniently becomes the right adaptation for the surroundings? If things were always randomly mutating we'd have allot of worthless non-functioning creatures and don't give me the spill about natural selection. Because there would be allot of things out there that would survive but have allot of useless mutations.
Click to expand...

:clap2:
 
How's that Appendix treating you?
 
dude thats what im getting at....the bee and the flower arent talking to each other at all. what are YOU talking about?

the process took millions of year. just think about that for a second. these things arent instantaneous.

it is very graspable for me to think about evolution and realize that with very small mutations and letting natural selection take its course, bees and flowers can become co dependant.

if you cant think for 30 seconds and realize its more than possible than by all means believe in "intelligent design". throw the easter bunny in there while youre at it
 
jomi822 said:
dude thats what im getting at....the bee and the flower arent talking to each other at all. what are YOU talking about?

the process took millions of year. just think about that for a second. these things arent instantaneous.

it is very graspable for me to think about evolution and realize that with very small mutations and letting natural selection take its course, bees and flowers can become co dependant.

if you cant think for 30 seconds and realize its more than possible than by all means believe in "intelligent design". throw the easter bunny in there while youre at it
Click to expand...


Firstly I don't believe in intelligent design, the earth is much much older then 10,000 years. Also I think your missing my point about mutations, So i'll drop it.

:dance:
 
I really don't want to get into the middle of this but I will say this . I spent six years in college studying chemistry, physics and biology. I started on my masters in chemistry but had to stop. It would suprise you how many PhD scientists believe in god and say there is no way evolution and the big bang could have created all this. ALL of my chemistry professers believed in god.........all of them.
A large group of scientists have even started some organization called "Scientists against the big bang" or something like that.
I'm sure there are alot of scientists that don't believe in god also, but my point is this, if the most intelligent scientific minded men in the world can't agree on an answer, what makes any of you so certain.
 
awmcdon said:
I really don't want to get into the middle of this but I will say this . I spent six years in college studying chemistry, physics and biology. I started on my masters in chemistry but had to stop. It would suprise you how many PhD scientists believe in god and say there is no way evolution and the big bang could have created all this. ALL of my chemistry professers believed in god.........all of them.
A large group of scientists have even started some organization called "Scientists against the big bang" or something like that.

Well, that would depend if you went to a school like say; Notre Dame, Villanova or Boston College,ect. where the foundation of the school is based in a belief in god. Then a faculty of open "believers" would be expected!

I'm sure there are alot of scientists that don't believe in god also, but my point is this, if the most intelligent scientific minded men in the world can't agree on an answer, what makes any of you so certain.
Click to expand...

Does an academic degree denote a greater ability to
understand the existence of a deity?

If it did we would not have to debate about it!
 
awmcdon said:
I really don't want to get into the middle of this but I will say this . I spent six years in college studying chemistry, physics and biology. I started on my masters in chemistry but had to stop. It would suprise you how many PhD scientists believe in god and say there is no way evolution and the big bang could have created all this. ALL of my chemistry professers believed in god.........all of them.
A large group of scientists have even started some organization called "Scientists against the big bang" or something like that.
I'm sure there are alot of scientists that don't believe in god also, but my point is this, if the most intelligent scientific minded men in the world can't agree on an answer, what makes any of you so certain.
Click to expand...

are you sure that you arent skewing that a bit? im in more or less the same situation as you are, and i still live on a college campus.

i have listened to jesuit professors throw some pretty modern ideas out there, and have read my fair share of scientific literature on the subject and even listened to a debate on campus, featuring some ****head who was systematically shut down by, again, jesuit professors.

i take it everyone knows that jesuits are priests dedicated to eduacation.

i have never heard even one of my biology or chemistry teachers admit to the existence of some mythical spiritual being of any type, including god. im sure some of they do, since i have been to catholic school all of my life, but all of them kept that **** out of a science classroom.

what i HAVE heard them talk about is how the sciences are perfect. too perfect in fact. ive heard chem professors go on about the pefection of molecules and chemical interractions for 5 minute speels during class. ive heard bio professors talk about evolution like the theory is itself a deity.

the one concession ill make after listening to numerous PHD's talk about their field is that there is a natural perfection to the universe. the fact that this perfection exists is divine in an of itself. it doesnt mean some mythical old dude sitting in a cloud somewhere created the world in 7 days and so on and so forth.
 
No I'm not skewing it any.
And I'm not talking about what they're teaching or how it may be affecting their lectures. I'm talking about their personal lives ,the personal decision they made and how science has affected this decision. They don't talk about these things in the classroom, they are completely professional.

During my education I developed a relationship with most of my upper level science instructors, I still keep in touch with a few of them to this day. About half way through my college career I started to develop the science mindset and started to question the existence of god. I went to alot of my professers and asked them about their opinion on god and evolution, I had very indepth conversations with a few of them. And they all told me the same thing "That the more they learned the more they realized that the big bang and evolution couldn't explain all of this".

And these guys are no slouches. My physical chemistry instructor had his PhD in Nuclear Chemistry from Texas A&M and had been employed by NASA.

And you may not have heard any of your instructors talk about the existence of a god, but it's a touchy subject. They're not going to talk about it in the classroom. But have you ever went to one of them and had a one on one conversation. They can't get in trouble that way because your coming to them asking their opinion. You might be suprised at the answers you get.

And I'm not here saying this is the right way or that is the right way. As a scientist it's hard to believe in a god but it's also hard to believe in the big bang. If you really think about it none of it makes any sense. What was here before the universe? What exists outside of the universe, it can't be infinite. There are so many questions. All I'm saying is no one really knows for sure.
 
awmcdon said:
And I'm not here saying this is the right way or that is the right way. As a scientist it's hard to believe in a god but it's also hard to believe in the big bang. If you really think about it none of it makes any sense. What was here before the universe? What exists outside of the universe, it can't be infinite. There are so many questions. All I'm saying is no one really knows for sure.
Click to expand...

Your are saying that nothing makes any sense. That is saying that from everything you have experienced as theory or evidence of facts makes no sense. So you are saying that the way of understanding existence that has been taught up until now is wrong, because it doesn't make any sense to your scientific mind.

The Big band and evolution are just theories of one possibility of reality. The fact that they may not be proven true is not evidence of gods existence.

Why can't reality be infinite? Why can't the universe and god be part of the same web of illusion? Why can't it be possible for all existence to be one and the same thing? Why can't each individual experience reality subjectively from another individual's subjective reality?

Each time you try and answer these type of questions you make the universe a better place, so please keep trying even if academic minds tell you something that they cannot prove either!
 
I see your point.

My only point was that there are so many unanswered questions, can we really be sure about anything?
 
awmcdon said:
I see your point.

My only point was that there are so many unanswered questions, can we really be sure about anything?
Click to expand...

Yes, there are many unanswered questions...BUT, that doesn't mean if it is not known (at least not yet) that the answer is: "God did it!"

The biology of evolution is a FACT.
The mechanism of evolution is a theory.

The pope recently even agreed with evolution!
 
dsade said:
How's that Appendix treating you?
Click to expand...

the appendix is ‘involved in the control of which essential bacteria come to reside in the caecum and colon in neonatal life’.6 Like the very important thymus gland in our chest, it is likely that the appendix plays its major role in early childhood. It is also involved in helping the body recognize early in life that certain foodstuffs, bacterially derived substances, and even some of the body’s own gut enzymes, need to be tolerated and not seen as ‘foreign’ substances needing attack.

Our body has been brilliantly designed, with plenty in reserve, and the ability for some organs to take over the function of others. Thus there are a number of organs which everybody agrees have a definite function, but we can still cope without them. Some examples:

Your gall bladder has a definite function—it stores bile from the liver, and squirts it into the intestine as required to help with the digestion of fat. However, it can be removed and the body will cope—for instance, by secreting more bile continuously.

You can cope with having a kidney out, because there is still enough kidney tissue left in the other one. (In the same way, a part of the Gut Associated Lymphoid Tissue, which includes the appendix, can be removed, and the remaining lymphoid tissue will usually be enough to carry on the total function). You won’t suffer from having your thymus out (if you’re an adult), because this extremely important gland, which ‘educates’ your immune cells when you are very young, is then no longer required. This is likely to be very relevant to the appendix.
 
Our body has been brilliantly designed, with plenty in reserve, and the ability for some organs to take over the function of others. Thus there are a number of organs which everybody agrees have a definite function, but we can still cope without them. Some examples
Click to expand...

what about:

1) the testicles located outside the body
2) the prostate's bad location
3) the eye's wiring being backwards
4) the fact that we have back pain (from standing upright)

there are more
so I don't think the body has been "brilliantly" designed.
 
well, your bangers hang outside the body to best regulate temperature to help sperm production

wouldn't know much about the prostate but if you think thats in a bad location, maybe due to where a dr. checks it, spread your legs at the table of an OBGYN and see who has it better.

we dont have back pain from standing up-right, we have back problems from not standing correctly.

as for the eyes, i am just shocked that they work. evrything seems to work pretty much just right together and that is very wonderful.
 
The beautiful design of the human body:

"In human males, the urethra passes right through the prostate gland, a gland very prone to infection and subsequent enlargement. This blocks the urethra and is a very common medical problem in males. Putting a collapsible tube through an organ that is very likely to expand and block flow in this tube is not good design. Any moron with half a brain (or less) could design male "plumbing" better."

"Wisdom teeth. Our jaws are a bit small for these late-erupting teeth; some people have them, while others do not."

Why?

"Speaking of the human body, 70% of us suffer lower back pain, since our vertebrae are better designed to function as horizontal suspension bridges for our internal organs rather than as vertical supports for a bipedal mammal.

"Other marvels of human body design include flat feet, weak ankles and knees, varicose veins, heart failure, dangerously thin portions of the skull, teeth that are impacted (or crooked and badly crowded), hernias, hemorrhoids, allergic reactions, eye problems, appendicitis, gall bladder disease, prostate problems, "female problems," danger of choking (because our breathing passage, eating passage, and speech box are all right on top of each other), not to mention countless birth defects"

Regarding the appendix
"The human appendix is notorious for the life-threatening complications it can cause. Deadly infection of the appendix at a young age is common, and the lifetime risk of acute appendicitis is 7% (Addiss et al. 1990; Hardin 1999; Korner et al. 1997; Pieper and Kager 1982). The most common age for acute appendicitis is in prepubescent children, between 8 and 13 years of age. Before modern 20th-century surgical techniques were available, a case of acute appendicitis was usually fatal. Even today, appendicitis fatalities are significant (Blomqvist et al. 2001; Luckmann 1989).

The small entrance to this dead-end pocket makes the appendix difficult to clean out and prone to physical blockage, which ultimately is the cause of appendicitis (Liu and McFadden 1997). This peculiar structural layout is quite beneficial for a larger cellulose-fermenting caecum, but it is unclear why gut lymphoid tissue would need to be housed in a remote, dead-end tube with negligible surface area. In fact, 60% of appendicitis cases are due to lymphoid hyperplasia leading to occlusion of the interior of the appendix, indicating that the appendix is unusually prone to abnormal proliferation of its lymphoid tissue (Liu and McFadden 1997). Such an occurrence would be much less problematic if the interior of the appendix were not so small, confined, and inaccessible from the rest of the gut. In many other primates and mammals, the GALT lymphoid tissue appears to function without difficulty in a much more open, bulbous caecum with ample surface area.

Furthermore, there is mounting evidence that removing the appendix helps prevent ulcerative colitis, a nasty inflammatory disease of the colon (Andersson et al. 2001; Buergel et al. 2002; Judge and Lichtenstein 2001; Koutroubakis and Vlachonikolis 2000; Koutroubakis et al. 2002; Naganuma 2001; Rutgeerts 1994). This evidence suggests that the appendix is actually maladaptive, and that the lymphoid tissue contained in the appendix is prone to chronic pathological inflammatory states. If the appendix does have an important function that we have yet to find, it is a leading candidate for the worst designed organ in the human body. How nice if the appendix would just degenerate away after it is no longer needed, so it could never get infected and kill us needlessly. Any biological structure that supposedly ensures our livelihood by its functions, yet paradoxically and unnecessarily kills a large fraction of its bearers prematurely, is poorly designed indeed."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top