Suggestions Please

FrTimothy

FrTimothy

Member
Age: 37
Ht: 6'1"
Wt: 230
BF%: 12
Diet: not perfect but close, 2grams hq protein per lb of body weight, multi-vitamin, b supplementation, Creatine, NO supplements, that's close

Intentions: Gain muscle size and strength as lean as possible then cut

Product Availability: Test Prop, Tren Acetate enough for 16 weeks (both)
Also all the over the counter products and was considering running Epistane with some of this in low doses as an AI

Recovery Products: Clomid, 6-Oxo, Tribulus, ZMA, Milk Thistle, NAC, that's about it...

Things I would like to have but are not available to me: HCG

I would like suggestions on what you would do with these products, additional product suggestions that are legally available and gray area available.
 
FrTimothy said:
Age: 37
Ht: 6'1"
Wt: 230
BF%: 12
Diet: not perfect but close, 2grams hq protein per lb of body weight, multi-vitamin, b supplementation, Creatine, NO supplements, that's close

Intentions: Gain muscle size and strength as lean as possible then cut

Product Availability: Test Prop, Tren Acetate enough for 16 weeks (both)
Also all the over the counter products and was considering running Epistane with some of this in low doses as an AI

Recovery Products: Clomid, 6-Oxo, Tribulus, ZMA, Milk Thistle, NAC, that's about it...

Things I would like to have but are not available to me: HCG

I would like suggestions on what you would do with these products, additional product suggestions that are legally available and gray area available.
Click to expand...


have to bulk or cut...cant do them at the same time...but yea, lean mass cycle would be good

whats ur experience? list your detailed cycle history

if you've run both before, then i would do 8 weeks of each. what dosages do u plan on?

what on cycle ancillaries are you gonna use? Look into cycle support by anabolic innovations (has NAC and Milk thistle in it and several other things to help protect you a little...start 1 week prior to the cycle and run it til the end of ur pct)

check out Invalid Link Removed

i would keep the clomid in there and look into an ATD and nolva/tamoxifen as well...i wouldnt waste money on that other stuff
 
clomid and over the counter supps are not enough for pct, you need tamoxifin or toremifene. if you arnt dead set on injectables then i would suggest running epistane with a non methyl such as propadrol or BOLD. A 6 week cycle of that will put at least 10 pounds of solid muscle on you.
 
things

Thanks for the response. It's an interesting thing to see different perspectives on this. I've always heard 2 grams per lb during bulking.

Also: I've also always heard run your liver supplements after a cycle rather than during.

My initial intentions are to run tren and test together the entire time whether it is 12 weeks or 16. I was planning on 150mg tren EOD and 100mg test ED or possibly 200mg EOD. Both short esters so due to my lack of sources/availability for longer ester products (everyone, please don't give a sermon about the ease of acquisition unless you're going to throw me a bone on this, which I know is taboo so that's NOT what I'm hinting at).

If I had my drathers..I'd have some dbol, test cyp, and some anavar. But, that's not the case so what is easy to get homebrew wise is what is available.

Where I'm weakest is my recovery products. One item I have already in case of On cycle gyno is Letro. I've read the clomid vs. tamoxifen argument for the longest time and as I understand it, Clomid does more for recovery than tamoxifen because it works on multiple channels and stimulates LH better.

So, what would you suggest for protein consumption, cut it by 50%?

Tom 185 said:
have to bulk or cut...cant do them at the same time...but yea, lean mass cycle would be good

whats ur experience? list your detailed cycle history

if you've run both before, then i would do 8 weeks of each. what dosages do u plan on?

what on cycle ancillaries are you gonna use? Look into cycle support by anabolic innovations (has NAC and Milk thistle in it and several other things to help protect you a little...start 1 week prior to the cycle and run it til the end of ur post cycle therapy)

check out Invalid Link Removed

i would keep the clomid in there and look into an ATD and nolva/tamoxifen as well...i wouldnt waste money on that other stuff
Click to expand...
 
protein is very debatable, i tried the 300-350g of protein a day thing for a while and i got fat. next i just didnt pay attention to protein, ate enough and added 1 protein shake a day and i stopped gaining fat and still put on muscle. i think its different for every person. a lot of people put too much stress on protein, i think carbs and calories are just as important for putting on muscle. the most muscle i ever lost was on a low carb high protein diet.

from what ive read clomid is more for gonads and tamox is for breast tissue. clomid wont fight gyno but tamox will, and of course letro.
 
Also: I've also always heard run your liver supplements after a cycle rather than during.

why would you do that? if i'm knowingly going to put stress on my liver due to a cycle...i'm going to run liver support supps. 1 week before,during (at a lower dose/mg.),and after (at a higher dose). and why the heck would saw pal. and milk thistle interfere w/ a cycle? not trying to be a wise guy.....educate me...please
 
Well, I don't know for a fact because that's why I'm here... to learn. What I was told though amounts to this. During a cycle the anabolic is metabolized by the liver and by taking milk thistle you accelerate that...dunno....I've heard it stated a lot better than I can.

lennoxchi said:
Also: I've also always heard run your liver supplements after a cycle rather than during.

why would you do that? if i'm knowingly going to put stress on my liver due to a cycle...i'm going to run liver support supps. 1 week before,during (at a lower dose/mg.),and after (at a higher dose). and why the heck would saw pal. and milk thistle interfere w/ a cycle? not trying to be a wise guy.....educate me...please
Click to expand...
 
FrTimothy said:
Thanks for the response. It's an interesting thing to see different perspectives on this. I've always heard 2 grams per lb during bulking.

Also: I've also always heard run your liver supplements after a cycle rather than during.

My initial intentions are to run tren and test together the entire time whether it is 12 weeks or 16. I was planning on 150mg tren EOD and 100mg test ED or possibly 200mg EOD. Both short esters so due to my lack of sources/availability for longer ester products (everyone, please don't give a sermon about the ease of acquisition unless you're going to throw me a bone on this, which I know is taboo so that's NOT what I'm hinting at).

If I had my drathers..I'd have some dbol, test cyp, and some anavar. But, that's not the case so what is easy to get homebrew wise is what is available.

Where I'm weakest is my recovery products. One item I have already in case of On cycle gyno is Letro. I've read the clomid vs. tamoxifen argument for the longest time and as I understand it, Clomid does more for recovery than tamoxifen because it works on multiple channels and stimulates LH better.

So, what would you suggest for protein consumption, cut it by 50%?
Click to expand...


1g per lb absolute max when not on AAS...u can only absorb 40g at a time...u need to keep a good ratio...50% of calories from carbs minimum...20-30% range for protein and fat...generally fat is more 5% more than protein, so thats an awful lot of carbs and fat if ur taking in 2g protein per lb...the rda for protein is .36kg hah

thats a lot of pinning for 12-16 weeks but i guess go for it if u dont mind. i would opt for enanthate versions of test and tren instead of ace and prop at that length.

and i would do 2 weeks clomid followed by 3 weeks of tamoxifen...its what i like best...and i learned from Dr. D
 
Thank god people are starting to understand about protein. People O.D on protein, at high doses it becomes toxic and makes you fat. Imagine the stress on your kidneys already from roids then add all that protein turning into amonia and gumming you up, the megadose protein thing is a retarded thing of the past. I think tom is dead on that CARBS and calories should be very prominent in your diet if your intensity can match them.
 
Motox said:
Thank god people are starting to understand about protein. People O.D on protein, at high doses it becomes toxic and makes you fat. Imagine the stress on your kidneys already from roids then add all that protein turning into amonia and gumming you up, the megadose protein thing is a retarded thing of the past. I think tom is dead on that CARBS and calories should be very prominent in your diet if your intensity can match them.
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im so glad you said that, almost everyone still claims you need 2g per pound of body weight. i gain muscle just as easy and keep fat off when i really dont pay much attention to protein intake and include 50g whey protein a day. all i do is stay away from sugar and fried foods and eat eat eat!
 
Yep

Well, not sure about the 50 grams of protein per day, I think my regular diet has a lot more than that...and I keep my bf down but I was thinking then of running about a 200 per day then of HQ protein. My regular "off" diet has at least 100, just naturally. I eat mostly fish and brown rice...no joke. I don't get the variety I need but it's good HQ protein with very little fat and complex carbs.

TRUST ME, I don't *want* to pin ED or even EOD but I don't have sources for better products, at least none I trust. So, homebrew with U.S. products is the only resource I have so that limits me to test prop and tren and some OTC products. Am thinking about running low dose epistane the whole time. What do you think about that?

Tom 185 said:
1g per lb absolute max when not on anabolic steroids...u can only absorb 40g at a time...u need to keep a good ratio...50% of calories from carbs minimum...20-30% range for protein and fat...generally fat is more 5% more than protein, so thats an awful lot of carbs and fat if ur taking in 2g protein per lb...the rda for protein is .36kg hah

thats a lot of pinning for 12-16 weeks but i guess go for it if u dont mind. i would opt for enanthate versions of test and tren instead of ace and prop at that length.

and i would do 2 weeks clomid followed by 3 weeks of tamoxifen...its what i like best...and i learned from Dr. D
Click to expand...
 
i am very impressed...or at least satisfied that people are agreeing with me...i thought for sure that i would get tons of objections, as i usually do when the protein thing comes up...thats why i usually avoid the topic...but definitely glad to see this...good stuff motox and charger
 
FrTimothy said:
Well, not sure about the 50 grams of protein per day, I think my regular diet has a lot more than that...and I keep my bf down but I was thinking then of running about a 200 per day then of HQ protein. My regular "off" diet has at least 100, just naturally. I eat mostly fish and brown rice...no joke. I don't get the variety I need but it's good HQ protein with very little fat and complex carbs.

TRUST ME, I don't *want* to pin ED or even EOD but I don't have sources for better products, at least none I trust. So, homebrew with U.S. products is the only resource I have so that limits me to test prop and tren and some OTC products. Am thinking about running low dose epistane the whole time. What do you think about that?
Click to expand...

high quality protein is always a better choice than powders...even if they have all 22 essential AA's...chicken and eggs and turkey are my main sources

as for your cycle...i would do something around 10 weeks with those short esters...its similar to doing 14 weeks with the long esters anyway

and i have no problem with the addition of epistane but i'll let others chime in....before i used it, i figured that it was going to become something i'd throw into most cycles from now on (i only run 1 about every 10 months)....but i really haven't been impressed at all, it hasn't given me much as ive stated in some epistane threads
 
Epistane

Yeah, I don't really look to epistane to give me much of a boost in size but from what I've read it supposed to be one of the better anti-gyno products out there even saying it gets rid of old gyno... so figured I'd run it prophylactically since it also claims to add muscle.

I'll probably at least run 12 weeks on the short esters. Everyone can call this overkill but I am going to do bi-weekly blood work for liver panel and lipid panels so if anyone is interested I could post it. I am going to do this especially due to the new product introduction (epistane). Plus, tren had a tendency to completely bottom out my good cholesterol. I'm going to keep my diet as strict as a monks' so I'm going to see what affect that has.

While I'm approaching this part of the subject...was curious if anyone uses any particular supplement for that purpose (keeping good cholesterol up)? My intentions are to use Fish Oil and Flax Seed Oil.

I had some amusing thoughts of using Flax Oil as the carrier oil of my injections but changed my mind once I read about how "dirty" it is and how it degrades also. It's really too bad there aren't also very healthy oils to use for that. I guess it's a very small detail and the amount is low anyway, but I try to cover the whole thing when I'm going to do something that isn't "that" healthy for my liver and kidneys anyway. I use grapeseed oil as a carrier now. Cottonseed is nice and thin but I've read too much about it so Grapeseed Oil is generally healthier and works well.

Here's a question for homebrewers. I like my solution pretty thin. I could add more BB I guess but a thinner oil or other additive might be a better idea. Any suggestions?

p.s. I know I'm asking a ton of questions but I'd rather not start another thread.

Tom 185 said:
high quality protein is always a better choice than powders...even if they have all 22 essential AA's...chicken and eggs and turkey are my main sources

as for your cycle...i would do something around 10 weeks with those short esters...its similar to doing 14 weeks with the long esters anyway

and i have no problem with the addition of epistane but i'll let others chime in....before i used it, i figured that it was going to become something i'd throw into most cycles from now on (i only run 1 about every 10 months)....but i really haven't been impressed at all, it hasn't given me much as ive stated in some epistane threads
Click to expand...
 
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