test levels down..

[gettingold]

Quick history on test levels: Test reference range 175-781. Free test range 10-55. Jan 06 - test-362, free test - 13.4. Went on Clomid. Feb 06 - test-544, free test-22.7. Didn't feel much better. Stopped climid due to vision side effects. May 06 - test-425, FT-14.5. Still don't feel much better.
New doctor. Went on Androgel 2.5. 2/1/07 - Test 286, FT-9.6. SUCKS. Upped androgel to 5. Had levels checked mid March 07 - test -309, FT - 9.3. WTF??!!! Balls are shrunken. Right has become very shy. I don't feel any better. I think alot of libido probs may be in my head at this point. Walenda effect - if you think you'll fail then you'll fail. Concentration, energy, focus, workouts are all down. The only thing that seems to be getting bigger is my gut. It seems I was doing better on my own (w/o androgel). Maybe if there's something like clomid w/o side effects that would help natural test production? Please help with any thoughts or ideas. I'm "only" 41 and I'm not ready to start going down hill. Sorry for going on so long .
thanks....

 

[JanSz]

Quick history on test levels: Test reference range 175-781. Free test range 10-55. Jan 06 - test-362, free test - 13.4. Went on Clomid. Feb 06 - test-544, free test-22.7. Didn't feel much better. Stopped climid due to vision side effects. May 06 - test-425, FT-14.5. Still don't feel much better.
New doctor. Went on Androgel 2.5. 2/1/07 - Test 286, FT-9.6. SUCKS. Upped androgel to 5. Had levels checked mid March 07 - test -309, FT - 9.3. WTF??!!! Balls are shrunken. Right has become very shy. I don't feel any better. I think alot of libido probs may be in my head at this point. Walenda effect - if you think you'll fail then you'll fail. Concentration, energy, focus, workouts are all down. The only thing that seems to be getting bigger is my gut. It seems I was doing better on my own (w/o androgel). Maybe if there's something like clomid w/o side effects that would help natural test production? Please help with any thoughts or ideas. I'm "only" 41 and I'm not ready to start going down hill. Sorry for going on so long .
thanks....

Androgel 5grams is not enough for you.
Balls shrunk because you did not used HCG
---------
So you have been doing steroid cycle then used Clomid in attempt to recover, yes?
Others may have better ideas on how to help you recover, do not give up on it.
Using Androgel, I assume you have given up on HPTA recovery??!!
------------

Asuming that you have given up on HPTA recovery, your next choice is to do TRT (for the rest of your life).

Androgel is my second choice, lots of messy gel.
I like Tcream, 100mg/1gram
I use 1gram/day (equal 10grams Androgel)
also HCG, Novarel, 250IU every other day.
When blod testing, the important is
BioAvailableTestosterone
young healthy men =5.5(nmol/L)
Invalid Link Removed

You have to also manage your estrogen when you are on TRT.
300mg DIM +I3C
1000mg TMG
as described by Dr John here:
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There are other considerations.
What is 300mg DIM is another not well defined topic.

 

[gettingold]

NO! I did not do a steroid cycle and am trying to recover. My doctor asked me the same friggin question. If that were the case, I would not have any questions. I would know that I brought this on myself. But thanks for jumping to the wrong conclusion.
I got a virus a few years back and laid me up for about 8 weeks. Lost a ton of weight (26 lbs, down to 146 - not healthy) I have since gained it back, but doc thinks maybe that is what started all this. I asked about HCG and doc said my testes were already atrophied and it wouldn't help. I would love to be able to not have to be on TRT for the rest of my life. thanks...

 

[plymouth city]

NO! I did not do a steroid cycle and am trying to recover. My doctor asked me the same friggin question. If that were the case, I would not have any questions. I would know that I brought this on myself. But thanks for jumping to the wrong conclusion.
I got a virus a few years back and laid me up for about 8 weeks. Lost a ton of weight (26 lbs, down to 146 - not healthy) I have since gained it back, but doc thinks maybe that is what started all this. I asked about HCG and doc said my testes were already atrophied and it wouldn't help. I would love to be able to not have to be on TRT for the rest of my life. thanks...

HCG has been shown to have positive T and mood raising effects even in nonfunctioning testicals.

 

[JanSz]

HCG has been shown to have positive T and mood raising effects even in nonfunctioning testicals.

plymouth city,
are you familiar with different approaches to HPTA recovery (I am not)?
Possibly he could build back his testis with HCG or even with HMG and then try HPTA recovery not with Clomid but possibly with Nolvadex or something else?
He alredy tried Clomid but it gives him vision problem.

 

[fit4life05]

plymouth city,
are you familiar with different approaches to HPTA recovery (I am not)?
Possibly he could build back his testis with HCG or even with HMG and then try HPTA recovery not with Clomid but possibly with Nolvadex or something else?
He alredy tried Clomid but it gives him vision problem.

Im currently trying a recovery with Nolva before I opt for TRT.

Running 40 40 30 20 10 (mg per day by week)

Its kinda a last resort b4 TRT. So far on day 8 and nothing, but I think I read it takes 12 days to even notice anything.

HCG would just shut you down even more.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Im currently trying a recovery with Nolva before I opt for TRT.

Running 40 40 30 20 10 (mg per day by week)

Its kinda a last resort b4 TRT. So far on day 8 and nothing, but I think I read it takes 12 days to even notice anything.

HCG would just shut you down even more.

Androgel has already got him shut down so whats the difference LOL adding in hcg under a drs care would definetly increase test levels as also estrogen needs to be monitored too!!

 

[plymouth city]

plymouth city,
are you familiar with different approaches to HPTA recovery (I am not)?
Possibly he could build back his testis with HCG or even with HMG and then try HPTA recovery not with Clomid but possibly with Nolvadex or something else?
He alredy tried Clomid but it gives him vision problem.

I am. But it is difficult to say what to do because I know little of his history. Any prior steroid use? I'd like to see estradoil, FSH, LH, SHBG and basically a more complete panel to see if he is hypogonadal and if it is primary/secondary. At 41 with a base level of the mid 300's, he might just be hypogonadal and need to start HRT. Without an E2 level though Im basically guessing. He might just have an issue with high E, like alot of otherwise healthy middle aged men, who have all their T receptors jammed up with estrogen. But Im basically throwing darts in the dark here without a more complete panel. :think:

 

[hardasnails1973]

I am. But it is difficult to say what to do because I know little of his history. Any prior steroid use? I'd like to see estradoil, FSH, LH, SHBG and basically a more complete panel to see if he is hypogonadal and if it is primary/secondary. At 41 with a base level of the mid 300's, he might just be hypogonadal and need to start HRT. Without an E2 level though Im basically guessing. He might just have an issue with high E, like alot of otherwise healthy middle aged men, who have all their T receptors jammed up with estrogen. But Im basically throwing darts in the dark here without a more complete panel. :think:

Very true you need to have the over all picture and most endos are not willing to go the extra distance to see it..

 

[plymouth city]

Very true you need to have the over all picture and most endos are not willing to go the extra distance to see it..

Endos :toofunny:

 

[JanSz]

plymouth city,
are you familiar with different approaches to HPTA recovery (I am not)?
Possibly he could build back his testis with HCG or even with HMG and then try HPTA recovery not with Clomid but possibly with Nolvadex or something else?
He alredy tried Clomid but it gives him vision problem.

I am. But it is difficult to say what to do because I know little of his history. Any prior steroid use? I'd like to see estradoil, FSH, LH, SHBG and basically a more complete panel to see if he is hypogonadal and if it is primary/secondary. At 41 with a base level of the mid 300's, he might just be hypogonadal and need to start HRT. Without an E2 level though Im basically guessing. He might just have an issue with high E, like alot of otherwise healthy middle aged men, who have all their T receptors jammed up with estrogen. But Im basically throwing darts in the dark here without a more complete panel. :think:

This HPTA recovery got me ciurous if possibly I could be a candidate for it.

I am on testosterone supplementation forth year.
Started with very short blood test.
1/8/2004
TT-311(241-827)
LH- 5.7(1.5-9.3)
FSH not tested
prolactin - 7.2 (2.1-17.7)
E2- 24 (0-52)
--------
Oct/06 I found
Free (T3)--2.9pg/mL(2.3-4.2)
----------------------------------------
If somebody came to me with those numbers and ED today
I would suggest DIM and Armour Tyroid first and stay away from Testosterone to see first if simple method would work.

Any ideas?
I am 67yo now.
=======================================
Note the original blood tests were done on end of my about 3 years struggle with ED.
Over that time I was using all kind of over the counter supplements.
Fromt those that may actually had some effect were
AlphaMale (actually feel it working for a while) (Herbal Powers)
LJ100 (Herbal Powers)
Animal Stack by Universal Nutrition

I was probably more than a month clean when blood testing.