Havoc?

Jlister

New member
For starters im 17 and ive never taken a pill supplement before. im taking whey protien right now but it just isnt working for me. i was wondering if havoc is the thing for me.

and i dont have anything to stack it with so i was wondering if it was ok to just leave it without a stack
 
Jlister said:
For starters im 17 and ive never taken a pill supplement before. im taking whey protien right now but it just isnt working for me. i was wondering if havoc is the thing for me.

and i dont have anything to stack it with so i was wondering if it was ok to just leave it without a stack
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No, and Havoc, ISNT a supplement. its a steroid. At 17, dont even look at supplementation, aside from Creatine. Eat Hard, and train.

Adams
 
If the whey is not "working" for you, you need to eat more and train harder. If you knew anything about Havoc you would know that you do not want to use it at your age.
 
what about xmass or anything like that? i have a couple friends that use that and they dont seem to be hurt by it.
 
Stay away from any PH/steroids at your age. It isn't the short term issues of "they don't seem to be hurt by it" that's the issue. Long term effects that you could suffer aren't worth the risks to your health. If you aren't seeing results at 17 then there are fundamental errors in your training/eating that need to be corrected before using supplements.
 
Jlister said:
what about xmass or anything like that? i have a couple friends that use that and they dont seem to be hurt by it.
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Honestly man everyone here is looking out for your best interests. We tell you NOT to touch any ph at your age because its dangerous. Your 17, your natural test is as high as its ever going to be. Take advantage of that now, because I can gaurentee almost every guy here over 25 would love to have it!!!.. Right now if you train hard, eat tons, and get rest you will grow like your on roids anyway!!.
What you need is whey, creatine, a multi, and maybe some fish oil. That is all! I can gaurentee if you train hard and eat like a madman you will grow, and see the results you want. Everyone here is really just looking out for the health of our members, so nobody will recommmend any ph, and you should really wait untill your older, and then maybe, if your still considering it in like ......5 years or more, then try something. Trust me prohormones are not going anywhere. Something new will always come out.
People also dont realize by tweaking your diet, and training routine you can break plateau's naturally.
** if you have any questions about diet or training, feel free to pm me, or post it, there are tons of people on here that wouldnt mind helping you out.
Best of luck
john
 
john123131 said:
Honestly man everyone here is looking out for your best interests. We tell you NOT to touch any ph at your age because its dangerous. Your 17, your natural test is as high as its ever going to be. Take advantage of that now, because I can gaurentee almost every guy here over 25 would love to have it!!!.. Right now if you train hard, eat tons, and get rest you will grow like your on roids anyway!!.
What you need is whey, creatine, a multi, and maybe some fish oil. That is all! I can gaurentee if you train hard and eat like a madman you will grow, and see the results you want. Everyone here is really just looking out for the health of our members, so nobody will recommmend any ph, and you should really wait untill your older, and then maybe, if your still considering it in like ......5 years or more, then try something. Trust me prohormones are not going anywhere. Something new will always come out.
People also dont realize by tweaking your diet, and training routine you can break plateau's naturally.
** if you have any questions about diet or training, feel free to pm me, or post it, there are tons of people on here that wouldnt mind helping you out.
Best of luck
john
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What he said ^^^^^^

Props for an excellent post.
 
Jlister said:
what about xmass or anything like that? i have a couple friends that use that and they dont seem to be hurt by it.
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Dude, you will do yourself some damage in some special ways right now if you use ANY of these steriods. Ask us what supps we would recommend for you, but I just dont want to see you hurt broham.
 
Hey little bro! So ..... how do you know that the whey is not working?! Cause you haven't blown up with massive amounts of muscle in a month? Listen to what all the guys here are telling you bro!! You are way tooo young to touch any of this stuff! Your freinds don't "seem" to be hurt, but let me tell you from personal experience( it foolishly touched gear when I was like 18!) but got off, and learned and eventually prevented a lot of damage! Some of my buddies unfortunately, were not so lucky:sad: ! One passed away at the young ripe age of 25(heart attacks and kidney troubles) and another one is totally screwed up hormonally wise, blew up to like 350lbs of chewed up bubble gum, and has been in the physc ward bout 2 or 3 times! Now these guys started at like 17 years young, and got hooked, and never wanted to come off properly, or come off at all! I know this is one of the more extreme cases of things going bad when touching anabolics at a young age, but there are a LOT more things that can happen to you that are bad, ESPECAILLY starting at your age!!! Take advantage of all the juice your body is making naturally right, it is the best kind!!! I could go on and on, but I think you will be smart, and catch everyones drift here! Train hard, eat big, rest, have fun, and be safe!!! Do these things, and you WILL grow!
 
dear swole

i dont mean this to come off as rude. but comeon guy, u really can't beleive steroids are nearly as bad as u say. What about all the guys from the 70's that took tons of steroids, like arnold, ferigno, dave draper, frank zane, serio oliva, franco columbo. guess what, none of them are dead. i have seen some recent articles on dave draper and lou ferigno and sergio oliva, these guys are all in great shape and still look awesome. what kills bodybuilders today aren't steroids, its over doing diuretics and those kinda drugs. how can u explain, how come none of those guys from the 70s are dead, but are in great shape. look at arnold, the guy did steroids since he was 18 till well into his movie career. i have never heard of steroids killing anyone. i know ur just trying to scare young kids, but when they see guys like vince mcmahon, whos in his 60s and looks better than most of his wrestlers working for him, do u really think they will listen to u. vince mcmahon has been doing steroids for so long now. and look at the guy, hes a picture of health and youth. hes jacked and healthy and he does steroids.
 
mightyconan said:
i dont mean this to come off as rude. but comeon guy, u really can't beleive steroids are nearly as bad as u say. What about all the guys from the 70's that took tons of steroids, like arnold, ferigno, dave draper, frank zane, serio oliva, franco columbo. guess what, none of them are dead. i have seen some recent articles on dave draper and lou ferigno and sergio oliva, these guys are all in great shape and still look awesome. what kills bodybuilders today aren't steroids, its over doing diuretics and those kinda drugs. how can u explain, how come none of those guys from the 70s are dead, but are in great shape. look at arnold, the guy did steroids since he was 18 till well into his movie career. i have never heard of steroids killing anyone. i know ur just trying to scare young kids, but when they see guys like vince mcmahon, whos in his 60s and looks better than most of his wrestlers working for him, do u really think they will listen to u. vince mcmahon has been doing steroids for so long now. and look at the guy, hes a picture of health and youth. hes jacked and healthy and he does steroids.
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are you really using vince mcmahon as your "picture of health"??...haha...considering he's probly had a few facelifts, and theres no way possible to see if he has any internal damage, his lipid profile, etc.
I have heard, and even known people who have had liver failure, jaundice, sexual disorders, etc.....all from messing around with dangerous compounds and not doing it properly. I know a guy on another forum who was admitted to the hospital with serious liver problems and jaundice because he stacked oral methlyated ph's. Im not saying every person will get hurt, or even get sides, I was telling the guy that he was only 17, and that his natural test was already more then enough to grow and gain.
Steroids honestly are only as dangerous as you make them, but theres still risks. Im not saying not to take em, im saying wait until your ready , if you are going to take em. Fully educate yourself on the sides, proper cycle supps and post cycle therapy protocol, and research the hell out of the compound your going to putting in your body!!! I get blown away seeing post like " I started M1T (or superdrol, or any other ph or steroid) yesterday, how do I take it??..and what is it?..whats a post cycle therapy??"...its unbelievable..
ANyway thats enough ranting for me....have a good day guys...good luck on anything you do!..
john
 
mightyconan said:
i dont mean this to come off as rude. but comeon guy, u really can't beleive steroids are nearly as bad as u say. What about all the guys from the 70's that took tons of steroids, like arnold, ferigno, dave draper, frank zane, serio oliva, franco columbo. guess what, none of them are dead. i have seen some recent articles on dave draper and lou ferigno and sergio oliva, these guys are all in great shape and still look awesome. what kills bodybuilders today aren't steroids, its over doing diuretics and those kinda drugs. how can u explain, how come none of those guys from the 70s are dead, but are in great shape. look at arnold, the guy did steroids since he was 18 till well into his movie career. i have never heard of steroids killing anyone. i know ur just trying to scare young kids, but when they see guys like vince mcmahon, whos in his 60s and looks better than most of his wrestlers working for him, do u really think they will listen to u. vince mcmahon has been doing steroids for so long now. and look at the guy, hes a picture of health and youth. hes jacked and healthy and he does steroids.
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I didn't say you "would" die from taking steroids! I 've done them my self, started at an early age, and I am not dead. I also stated that the cases with my friends are of the higher extreme! Those guys in the 70's also probably didn't cycle non stop, didn't (I could be wrong) start taking them when they were 17yrs old, and probably had some one with a bit more of knowledge helping/ guiding them through it. Not to mention doctor care. yeah some of those guys are in great health, but some have also passed away form things that might (might not) be related to steroid usage. My point was not to sit here and tell of all these horror stories about using steroids like we have been told by doctors, teacher's etc., but it was to inform and educate a young kid, and hopefully avoid him making a bad choice(which taking steroids at that young of an age IS VERY BAD!!!). I'm sure a 17 yr old could take these things, get huge and look good, and then it's gonna suck when that pimply face 17yr old kid comes off, and his world feels like it's falling in on him cause he doesn't know a damn thing about PCT. It's gonna suck even more when he gets the honies he's trying to get, and at 17 or 18 yrs old get embarrassed cause his wee wee won't work!!:( :whiner: ! It is alot more dangerous, and a lot more harm can come out from a kid using steroids, than an "educated" adult. There is a lot bigger chance for abuse, given it that once they come off, they will ose there gains, and immediately start using again. If this happens, guess what.... they will probably screw there whole endocrine system up, and have to rely on these synthetic hormones to make them feel right. So again, I am not saying that you "WILL" die from taking steroids, I am not that dumb. But it can(if used irresponsibly) lead to things expediting themselves a whole lot quicker! Hyper tension to the point of medication at he age of 25, was not due to me being fat or anything, in fact I was big and lean! It was however, form taking steroids incorrectly at a young agae I believe. I have since normalized my self! But you see where that could have led to, no? Just trying to help, not horrify any one! I think anabolic use once you are of certain ripe age, responsibly and educatedley, is not that bad at all! My.02!
 
john123131 said:
are you really using vince mcmahon as your "picture of health"??...haha...considering he's probly had a few facelifts, and theres no way possible to see if he has any internal damage, his lipid profile, etc.
I have heard, and even known people who have had liver failure, jaundice, sexual disorders, etc.....all from messing around with dangerous compounds and not doing it properly. I know a guy on another forum who was admitted to the hospital with serious liver problems and jaundice because he stacked oral methlyated ph's. Im not saying every person will get hurt, or even get sides, I was telling the guy that he was only 17, and that his natural test was already more then enough to grow and gain.
Steroids honestly are only as dangerous as you make them, but theres still risks. Im not saying not to take em, im saying wait until your ready , if you are going to take em. Fully educate yourself on the sides, proper cycle supps and post cycle therapy protocol, and research the hell out of the compound your going to putting in your body!!! I get blown away seeing post like " I started M1T (or superdrol, or any other ph or steroid) yesterday, how do I take it??..and what is it?..whats a post cycle therapy??"...its unbelievable..
ANyway thats enough ranting for me....have a good day guys...good luck on anything you do!..
john
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Exactly what you just said john!! It kills me when I see stuff like that, and you know it's mostly young kids(allthough some old folk do as well!)
 
ok guys thank you so much for all your help i decided to lay off on havoc and got creatine, ultra stengh fish oil, and a multi vitamin. im taking my whey protein 3 times a day so i was wondering how many times i should take the other stuff? i know it seems like im a retard but i really wanna know whats best! thanks!
 
Jlister said:
ok guys thank you so much for all your help i decided to lay off on havoc and got creatine, ultra stengh fish oil, and a multi vitamin. im taking my whey protein 3 times a day so i was wondering how many times i should take the other stuff? i know it seems like im a retard but i really wanna know whats best! thanks!
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Hey bro, you're not a retard, you'd be one if you didn't ask any questions!:thumbsup:
You are doing the right and smart thing by comming on here and asking answers/ advice! What kind of creatine do yo have? Fish oil probably 2-3 times a day, and the multi prob1-2 times a day. You can't go wrong with the recomended dosage though, and work form there.
 
john123131 said:
are you really using vince mcmahon as your "picture of health"??...haha...considering he's probly had a few facelifts, and theres no way possible to see if he has any internal damage, his lipid profile, etc.
I have heard, and even known people who have had liver failure, jaundice, sexual disorders, etc.....all from messing around with dangerous compounds and not doing it properly. I know a guy on another forum who was admitted to the hospital with serious liver problems and jaundice because he stacked oral methlyated ph's. Im not saying every person will get hurt, or even get sides, I was telling the guy that he was only 17, and that his natural test was already more then enough to grow and gain.
Steroids honestly are only as dangerous as you make them, but theres still risks. Im not saying not to take em, im saying wait until your ready , if you are going to take em. Fully educate yourself on the sides, proper cycle supps and post cycle therapy protocol, and research the hell out of the compound your going to putting in your body!!! I get blown away seeing post like " I started M1T (or superdrol, or any other ph or steroid) yesterday, how do I take it??..and what is it?..whats a post cycle therapy??"...its unbelievable..
ANyway thats enough ranting for me....have a good day guys...good luck on anything you do!..
john
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You can have a bad experience even if you do do the research and have excellent help and guidance along the way. I had guidance from an excellent moderator that knows his doodoo, and I took the time to plan everything out. However I ended up in the hospital with yellow eyes, and kidney and liver problems. This was my infamous SD cycle that I posted about a few months back. Today I am glad to be alive!. You see so there is a chance at you reacting badly to anything no matter what your age is. Of course at 17 who needs more hormones??..
 
Good to hear you're going the other route first. Keep around and check out the nutrition and training section. And the only stupid question is the one not asked.
 
ya i just saw the pills and theyre HUUUUUUGE im gettin kinda sketched out but i think ill go for it. im using creatine monohydrate btw. i feel like this is going to take really slow and its so frustrating to see my friends lift more than me because they do havoc and xmass and all that ****. my brother just stopped doing 1-AD and 2-AD stuff. whats the deal with that stuff?
 
Jlister said:
ya i just saw the pills and theyre HUUUUUUGE im gettin kinda sketched out but i think ill go for it. im using creatine monohydrate btw. i feel like this is going to take really slow and its so frustrating to see my friends lift more than me because they do havoc and xmass and all that ****. my brother just stopped doing 1-AD and 2-AD stuff. whats the deal with that stuff?
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the deal with that stuff is none of your concern as of right now. give it at least 3-4 years by then if you are still training then id say do the research and go for it.but until then, train hard use plenty of clean protein & proper lifting ,good luck, and hope you make wise steps towards bodybuilding. you will look back and say glad i was not impatient, remember your young only once and i know health wasnt a concern to me but as you age you wish you had not done the unsmart things of the past. and hey we are not trying to preach to you but rather give caring advice that will save you greif.:dance:
 
Jlister said:
ya i just saw the pills and theyre HUUUUUUGE im gettin kinda sketched out but i think ill go for it. im using creatine monohydrate btw. i feel like this is going to take really slow and its so frustrating to see my friends lift more than me because they do havoc and xmass and all that ****. my brother just stopped doing 1-AD and 2-AD stuff. whats the deal with that stuff?
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Don't do it dude. You could be the one laughing at all your friends on steroids when they can't get it up anymore after their cycle due to their natural Testosterone shutting down. I can almost guarantee that you will have more mass too because they will more than likely loose all their gains after cycle.
 
Hyde12 said:
Don't do it dude. You could be the one laughing at all your friends on steroids when they can't get it up anymore after their cycle due to their natural Testosterone shutting down. I can almost guarantee that you will have more mass too because they will more than likely loose all their gains after cycle.
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Exactly!:hammer:
 
Jlister said:
ya thanks again guys do you think protein shakes really do all that much?
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Protein shakes are really nothing more then a convenient source of protein. If you need a little help to get to your total protein goal then add some powder. If you are falling short of the amount of protein that you need and you all of a sudden add additional protein in the form of powder, then yes you will notice a difference. If you are already getting enough protein and you simply substitute powder for some of your whole food protein then you won't see any difference at all.

If your whey isn't "working" for you, then you are either trying to compare yourself to your buddies who are "on" or you just aren't eating enough. It's probably a combination of both. Why don't you post up what you would eat on a normal day and what times you eat it. Also, how much do you weigh, height, bf%, activity level (what do you do during the day, school, work?). We should be able to help get your diet in order so you can start packing on the muscle.

Use this format if possible...

6am
4 eggs
toast
oj

10am
whey shake

ect ect.
 
Jlister said:
ya thanks again guys do you think protein shakes really do all that much?
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It the patience with the protein shakes thats hard. This isnt a game of quick gratifications.
 
motiv8er said:
It the patience with the protein shakes thats hard. This isnt a game of quick gratifications.
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Thus the reason why so many people make make decisions when it comes to working out. I can't coun't the nuber of times people have come up to me and aske me what I am taking, and how long it took me to get like this, as if I just took some magical potion/pill, and in 1 or 2 months I was where I am at! It take s PATCIENCE PATCIENCE PATCIENCE!!!! Yeah you can make quick gains an look a whole lot better in a few months, but don't expect to look like the Incredible Hulk or somethning, ya know! That is just the thing with most people in society today, and it goes for a lot of things, not just working out! Everyone want to be lazy, do minimal work, take a magical steroid pill or something, and in 2 weeks be sporting the body they see on tv infomercials for 6 minute abs or what ever the new toy of the week is! It takes a lot of time and a lot of hard work, if it didn't, everyone would be walking around looking like Greek gods! But Jlister, yu have a HUGE advantage over a lot others, you are very young, and are just now going to begin to grow:thumbsup:! Post up your stats, and daily food consumption, along with how and when you are taking you supps as was suggested here, and I am sure there will be more thatn 1 person willing to take a little time and help you out bro!::cool:
 
ok heres the part youre gonna make fun of me for. im 5'6" about 155 lbs. i eat probly round 6 meals a day : cereal for breakfast, lunch meat for snacks, a tuna or ham sandwich for lunch, some more lunch meat and usually some chicken or spaghetti for dinner. i take my protein shake when i wake up, after my workout, and when i go to bed. i take my multi and fish oil right after school with food and my creatine when i finish my workout. i really need to know what to eat and how much. i dont know my BF%. I dont even know how to figure it out. i dont really do any sports because of the snow but when summer comes i play some football and go for a run every now and then. thanks guys couldnt have done any of this without yas!
 
Why would anyone make fun of you.. the fact is you are working out.. there are a lot of people that are not working out and think supplements will magically make them fit

I wish I had started working out when I was in my teens.. I would be huge by now..
 
Jlister said:
ok heres the part youre gonna make fun of me for. im 5'6" about 155 lbs. i eat probly round 6 meals a day : cereal for breakfast, lunch meat for snacks, a tuna or ham sandwich for lunch, some more lunch meat and usually some chicken or spaghetti for dinner. i take my protein shake when i wake up, after my workout, and when i go to bed. i take my multi and fish oil right after school with food and my creatine when i finish my workout. i really need to know what to eat and how much. i dont know my BF%. I dont even know how to figure it out. i dont really do any sports because of the snow but when summer comes i play some football and go for a run every now and then. thanks guys couldnt have done any of this without yas!
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A somehing you may want to check is you fiber intake. Quality carbs as a important as your proteins. If somebody ever served me something on white bread, they'd get it back in a second as a "magical-hat frisbee." Lots of oatmeal, LOTS!! Intense workouts with whats most important 1) YOUR LEGS!! 2) YOUR BACK!!! Most younger and smaller guys prefer there chest and biceps.
 
haha thats funny how you say that because i hate to do my legs and i dont really know what to do for my back. so if anyone can help in that department itll be greatly appreciated!!!
 
Jlister said:
haha thats funny how you say that because i hate to do my legs and i dont really know what to do for my back. so if anyone can help in that department itll be greatly appreciated!!!
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You really should do your legs. For your back you need to do dead lifts and chin ups. Two exercises that should be mandatory. Other ones are bent over barbell rows or dumbbell rows. Lat pulldowns and T-bar rows.
 
hey thanks man now i can finally do some back!! does anybody know how i can figure out my BF%? thanks alot!
 
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