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Increasing dopamine

BruFan said:
I'm not 100% sure. I can tell you that while on L-Dep, a standard dose of Basic Cuts which has Hordenine and PEA seems to work very well without any hypertensive impact for me... it may not be the same for everyone Umm... hell, it could be dangerous for some.
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Q.how can you determine if is safe with you?

A.Wait for people like us to test it or test it yourself. Please report back if you can contribute anything on this thread from expirementing on yourself or any research that comes out on pea/hord.Thank you.
 
smeton_yea said:
Q.how can you determine if is safe with you?
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Man, I dunno. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of info out there on PEA.

I just started really slow and very conservative with it. I remember one post from a guy who was using it for quite a while and was loving it, then that same dose started causing massive headaches I believe, and he said he wouldn't go near the stuff ever again. Personally, I try to keep the doses small, and I don't use it every day. Heck, I haven't had any in over a week.
 
BruFan said:
I'm not 100% sure. I can tell you that while on L-Dep, a standard dose of Basic Cuts which has Hordenine and PEA seems to work very well without any hypertensive impact for me... it may not be the same for everyone.
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again, this is just speculation, but heres what i think:

PEA is structutrally similar to meth and it claims to have "feel good effects." so ingesting PEA directly will cause an unnaturally large flood of dopamine in the brain. if dopamine levels remain elevated for too long, then it will result in less dopamine receptors. when/if this happens, you cant experience pleasure without the extra dopamine that drugs can provide. so to answer the question, it wouldnt be safe for anyone to consistently use PEA with deprynyl. it also shouldnt be used by those with drug abuse history. the combination is definately not safe for everyone. with all neurotransmitters, balance is key. overstimulation and deficiencies can both cause problems.

note - this assumption is based on PEA being a dopamine antagonist and im not quite sure that is the case. delton, where you at?
 
Interesting read:

What Knoll and colleagues discovered through their highly technical experiments is that deprenyl and PEA act to more efficiently couple the release of neurotransmitters to the electrical impulse that triggers their release. (2, 16)

In other words, deprenyl (and PEA) cause a larger release of transmitters in response to a given electrical impulse. It’s like “turning up the volume” on catecholamine nerve cell activity
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Knoll’s work indicates that PEA is also a catecholamine activity enhancer substance. (16) PEA is a trace amine made in the brain that modulates (enhances) the activity of dopamine/noradrenalin neurons. (16, 21) Autopsy studies have shown that while deprenyl increases dopamine levels in Parkinson patient brains by only 40-70%, deprenyl increases PEA levels 1300 - 3500%! (14, 22) PEA is the preferred substrate for MAO-B, the MAO that deprenyl inhibits. Paterson and colleagues have shown that PEA has an extremely rapid turnover due to its rapid and continuous breakdown by MAO-B. (21) Thus deprenyl's catecholamine activity enhancer activity has a dual mode of action. At low, non-MAO-B inhibiting doses, deprenyl has a direct catecholamine activity enhancer activity.

At higher, MAO-B inhibiting doses, deprenyl creates an additional catecholamine activity enhancer effect, due to the huge increases in brain PEA levels that deprenyl causes, PEA also being a catecholamine activity enhancer substance. Many authors have pointed out the probable dopamine neuron activity enhancing effect of PEA in Parkinson patients taking deprenyl. (14, 15, 22)
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Sir Savage said:
Y'all would love the Neuroscience section of M & M.
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i follow along that section quite frequem to be many experts in that field at M & M. theres one dude oently. im a little intimidated to post though cause there sever there with the username frangible who i consider a genius. from his sig:

"In short, self-absorption in all its forms kills empathy; let alone compassion. When we focus on ourselves, our world contracts as our problems and preoccupations loom large. But when we focus on others, our world expands. Our own problems drift to the periphery of the mind and so seem smaller, and we increase our capacity for connection-- or compassionate action." -Daniel Goleman, "Social Intelligence"

this has so much truth to it and has specifically helped with my contest prep because i used to isolate myself from everybody while dieting for a show. when i remain connected to others, its not so bad and cutting is a lot less suffering.
 
Yeah, Frangible, ATB, the list goes on. Lot of smart dudes over there.

That sub-forum is easily one of the most brilliant on the internet.
 
WannaBeHulk said:
i follow along that section quite frequem to be many experts in that field at M & M. theres one dude oently. im a little intimidated to post though cause there sever there with the username frangible who i consider a genius. from his sig:

"In short, self-absorption in all its forms kills empathy; let alone compassion. When we focus on ourselves, our world contracts as our problems and preoccupations loom large. But when we focus on others, our world expands. Our own problems drift to the periphery of the mind and so seem smaller, and we increase our capacity for connection-- or compassionate action." -Daniel Goleman, "Social Intelligence"

this has so much truth to it and has specifically helped with my contest prep because i used to isolate myself from everybody while dieting for a show. when i remain connected to others, its not so bad and cutting is a lot less suffering.
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How true this is. I used to be self absorped but I probally need to be gredy with myself at that time to give myself the love. Finally when your cup runneth over, if you like, you have an abundance to give away to others.

I totall agree with pea/any mao-inhibitot should not be used constantly and only used in moderation. The least I cannot say but maybe you can get away with once every day or once every couple of days for a two weeks but then its time for a two week break intill you repeat. any thoughts on this?

Actually studies say PEA is clean and safe. and does not have any negative sides like Meth, structurally clean.
 
WannaBeHulk said:
i follow along that section quite frequem to be many experts in that field at M & M. theres one dude oently. im a little intimidated to post though cause there sever there with the username frangible who i consider a genius. from his sig:

"In short, self-absorption in all its forms kills empathy; let alone compassion. When we focus on ourselves, our world contracts as our problems and preoccupations loom large. But when we focus on others, our world expands. Our own problems drift to the periphery of the mind and so seem smaller, and we increase our capacity for connection-- or compassionate action." -Daniel Goleman, "Social Intelligence"

this has so much truth to it and has specifically helped with my contest prep because i used to isolate myself from everybody while dieting for a show. when i remain connected to others, its not so bad and cutting is a lot less suffering.
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It's common sense and easily learned. The world is full of self absorbed people. LOOK at the love... there is few people in your life who bring you up and there's soo many that bring you down. You call em firefighters. They constantly try to put out your fire. Its the few people that keep you going. We need eachother. The world is so cold. It seems people only get together in times of disaster and then once the "dust clears" people go back to themeselves. I consider myself a empath. That's how i've always lived my life. I sense peoples pain and have to help. It's very draining because people always let you down but at the same time few people that let you in make life worth living! Nothing in the world is stronger then the power of love period.
 
did no Sulb today and yesterday, Did pea 250 mgs and 50 hordenine. All I can say is it works like a charm. But some reason it seemed to take two hours to kick in. Thats how I perceived it.-Strange.

Maybe not so strange this might explain it. I ate breakast- Fiber-One Cereal, about ten frozen blueberries, about 13 almonds, 25 Protein shake, and 20 egg whites. Then I frelized about twenty minutes later forgot take my multi, Glucosamine,and the Am formula so I took them and took the PEA/Hord combo with it. Maybe this was why the Pea/Hord was delayed because so many other stuff could have been competing and breakdown was slower.
 
Did my third dose yesterday ,250 mgs of pea and 50 hord. Going to wait at least every other day if not longer for re-up-take. If you take this stuff all the time the pleasure center, in this case dopamine right? will become acustomed to it and it takes more and more each time so its best to space it out. I know people on this board that have said they cannot get a certain effect from almost any stimulant because there recetors are fryed from too much ephedra and something else abuse;You can learn from others expirence. my point...Dont abuse this stuff, even if you think your body can take it because you want to save more fuel in the tank for later. am I making any sense?
 
smeton_yea said:
Did my third dose yesterday ,250 mgs of pea and 50 hord. Going to wait at least every other day if not longer for re-up-take. If you take this stuff all the time the pleasure center, in this case dopamine right? will become acustomed to it and it takes more and more each time so its best to space it out. I know people on this board that have said they cannot get a certain effect from almost any stimulant because there recetors are fryed from too much ephedra and something else abuse;You can learn from others expirence. my point...Dont abuse this stuff, even if you think your body can take it because you want to save more fuel in the tank for later. am I making any sense?
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bingo! this is what i was trying to point out in my last post. and yes, dopamine is the "pleasure center." im not exactly sure if PEA desenstizes dopamine receptors or not but i would think most things that cause an increased mood state would do so through this mechanism of desensitation. i guess if you eventually need to take more to acheve the same effect, the tolerance could be attributed to downregulation.

thats a good point with stimulant non responders as well and is a similar example through the pathway of increased norepinephrine.
 
smeton_yea said:
did no Sulb today and yesterday, Did pea 250 mgs and 50 hordenine. All I can say is it works like a charm. But some reason it seemed to take two hours to kick in. Thats how I perceived it.-Strange.
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Ya food really slows it down. Makes the PEA peak less but the effects last longer. It usually kicks in for me after 15 mins on a empty stomach.
 
WannaBeHulk said:
bingo! this is what i was trying to point out in my last post. and yes, dopamine is the "pleasure center." im not exactly sure if PEA desenstizes dopamine receptors or not but i would think most things that cause an increased mood state would do so through this mechanism of desensitation. i guess if you eventually need to take more to acheve the same effect, the tolerance could be attributed to downregulation.

thats a good point with stimulant non responders as well and is a similar example through the pathway of increased norepinephrine.
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I never experienced tolerance to pea and I have been using it a lot for the past few months. I can take the same amount and always get the same reaction. Actually due to this thread I decided to go a week without PEA/Hordenine to see how I feel. Weeks almost over I haven't noticed any "withdrawl" or "craving" for it. I don't feel burnt out without it. The only difference is that I'm in a normal mood/focus instead of enhanced.
 
USPLabs said:
Will some dose this combo with PowerFULL and report back please.
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Didn't get my reply in the other thread? I did this combo for almost a month :) I didn't notice much synergy just the two separate effects. The sleepiness that I get while using PowerFull couldn't be counteracted much by the PEA/Hordenine. The mood enhancement was the same as with or without PowerFull. So I was sleepy but in a good mood.
 
Rivet said:
I never experienced tolerance to pea and I have been using it a lot for the past few months. I can take the same amount and always get the same reaction. Actually due to this thread I decided to go a week without PEA/Hordenine to see how I feel. Weeks almost over I haven't noticed any "withdrawl" or "craving" for it. I don't feel burnt out without it.
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well thats good news and should be a sign that no downregulation is occurring.

Rivet said:
The only difference is that I'm in a normal mood/focus instead of enhanced.
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this is what i dont understand. i would think it could be addicting to maintain that enhanced state especially when your normal dose isnt running through your system. in your "normal" state, are you experiencing emotions and feelings as strong as you have previously felt them? i only ask because when i overstimulated my CNS, i felt emotions but they werent ever strong feelings. i had the ability to experience happiness but the signal was never too strong (if that makes sense. i can go into more detail if anyone is/has experienced something similar). same with anger. a stimulus that would previously give me an urge to fight or talk sh*t would then just irritate me with no desire to take any action. its like i had the ability to produce the chemicals to cause this, but not having the receptors (and the ones i did have being downregulated) available to strongly experience these emotions.
 
I guess it could be mentally addicting to always want to be in a enhanced state. But I'm not experiencing anything withdrawl wise. I have used Ephedrine for a couple of months at a time and experienced what you wrote above. I haven't touched any pea/hord today either and I'm smiling as I write this :)
 
Rivet said:
I guess it could be mentally addicting to always want to be in a enhanced state. But I'm not experiencing anything withdrawl wise. I have used Ephedrine for a couple of months at a time and experienced what you wrote above. I haven't touched any pea/hord today either and I'm smiling as I write this :)
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very nice! great info rivet:thumbsup:
this will help to draw conclusions that PEA can be taken without the negative effects associated with other "mood enhancement" drugs. anybody else with a PEA/MAO-B inhibitor history that can share their experience? im interested to see if 100% of users feel similar to what you mentioned.
 
WannaBeHulk said:
well thats good news and should be a sign that no downregulation is occurring.


this is what i dont understand. i would think it could be addicting to maintain that enhanced state especially when your normal dose isnt running through your system. in your "normal" state, are you experiencing emotions and feelings as strong as you have previously felt them? i only ask because when i overstimulated my CNS, i felt emotions but they werent ever strong feelings. i had the ability to experience happiness but the signal was never too strong (if that makes sense. i can go into more detail if anyone is/has experienced something similar). same with anger. a stimulus that would previously give me an urge to fight or talk sh*t would then just irritate me with no desire to take any action. its like i had the ability to produce the chemicals to cause this, but not having the receptors (and the ones i did have being downregulated) available to strongly experience these emotions.
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Pea cannot produce the emotions , its only like a enhanced state tool, You have to produce the emotion. On Sunday while pea/hord was working , I went into the mall. I went up the sexy girls I knew , flirted with them, made myself feel good by making them feel good, kissed ones hand, btw these are high quality girls. Other lower self estem girls (no offense to them , I hope they raise the bar) I just casually talk and have fun,approaching cuties. I had a black eye from a Tackle football game earlier that day, some dude head butted me and my eye is blue and blue as Im writing this, I asked a cosmetic worker,35-42 but done up and sexy as hell, if she could put makeup on my eye for me and she was very happy to.As she was doing it I looked into her eyes and didnt flinch , she laughed because she liked it sooo much.You should have seen her eyes act like they were focusing on my eye, then she started up cracking because she knew I was watching her. Then I went into a local hangout place Applebees and I was kinoing a girl that used to be in my speech class. Talking to people, shaking hands, when I hugged speech class girl she cryed for a second. I helped her let something out of her body;energy,chakras, a healing, whatever it was. I helped her and it made me very happy. anyways I was in a enhanced state of mind, and created good feelings for people, thus when you do this you feel good. Sure PEa/Hord may aid in mood enhancement;however,You cant exspect Pea/Hordenine to make you feel good, you have to make yourself feel good.Wannabe You see what i mean?

So Imo its best to go someplace thats packed with people, if your a people person.If you like to be alone, be alone. Main point- get into what you really love . PEA/HOrd does produce an enhanced state , on top of doing what you love, makes things even more loving.

Yesterday I felt weird after my PEA dose. My mom told me I was acting strange.

Yes that is good news tolance doesnt build up. They say Pea is structurally similar to methametamine and might have the same effects but the effects are posiitve and clean but not killing you, rotting your teeth, destroying your brain , like meth does. Kids are being treated with this for add and adhd. I dont know if the children take hord or a mao inhibitor with the PEA but I do know it has been recongized in a widely reconizable health book as a treatment to add and adhd.Thats where I came across the information above. Excuse the spelling its been six months since Ive been out of school.hahaha
 
your experience at the mall relates to social neuroscience. connecting with others allows certain neurons to fire to make yourself feel good when socializing with others. its still on a similar chemical level though.

for example, i read a study the other day that examined dopamine receptors from monkeys in 2 different environments. 1 group was in a social setting with many other monkeys and the other group was isolated from everyone. sure enough, the social group ended the experiment with increased number of DA receptors. its been determined that connecting with others can achieve this. its a natural DA agonist to upregulate receptors. another example is that runners high feeling after performing a decent cardio session. of course, there are more neurotransmitters involved but they synergistically work to combine that enhanced state and make you feel great after the exercise.
 
This I think has something to do with dopamine receptors. When I was Nineteen years old I was at my friend Darrell's party. A guy I knew named Larry walked up to me and asked me if i wanted some Vokca(sp). He said the Vokca was in orange juice. I expiremented a few times with alcky before this but I wanted to get trashed so I drank like a quart of this Orange juice. Amber, Darrell's sister or someone told me it wasnt Vokca , it was something they call Zulu juice, filters from the bottom from left over meth,and she told just drank about three hundred grams of meth. Maybe it was twenty grams but I think i remember them telling me three hundred. They split because people honestly thought I might die.People were saying things like your going to die dude, you better get to the hospital. My friend Darrell and Charlie took care of me all night.I could stay still so I had them ride me around Im my SUV. Grant you, I was about One Sixty then, Six foot three. I remember my breathe was tooken away for a few hours, I was walking up to people I barely knew and just talking telling people what happened. People were scared for me. Anyways Charlie and Darrell took care of me and got me home. That night I thought I was literally going to die, my heart wouldnt stop, I could eat, I had the sweats, I was laying on the floor crying,calling out to God for help. Thats all else I knew to do,. Well Since I believe in God, I don't mean to bring up personal stuff,after I prayed I made myself eat some white bread and drink some water. Then I went to sleep. the next day was Thanksgiving . My grandparents came over. I crashed hard, was sad,and basically was a sad zombie sitting there with my family on Thanksgiving.I hide it as best I could. and I remeber touching my grandparents, I touch them a lot, hugs, touches.I did the best I could do at the time in the state I was in. I was hesitate about dieing the next few days when my parents went out of town and Darrell took care of me. I felt a craving for it but DID NOT go after the craving. I used my powerful mind to stay positive. It effected me ,at the time,but believe I overcame it. The guy who gave me this stuff is really bad off, last time I saw him. I wish him the best. In Concluding, I would have been dead if it wasnt for a higher power which kept me alive because I remember my whole body going into convulsions the whole time, while my breathe was taking away for many hours, my friends said I was talking a mile a minute and counldnt stop. They took care of me, Thats why I love Darrell and Charlie. It Happened.
 
To increase DA, you could just get some seligline. Think Board sponser. Anyways, it's a selective MAO-B inhibitor which in a nutshell is the enzyme that metabolizes DA, however, if you use doses > than 10mg daily, it could be turned into a non-selective MAO inhibitor (A and B) apparently. You might want to try the stuff everyone else suggests first because this drug has many drug interactions, too many to list. Most of them are precautionary because the fact that it could act as a MAO-A inhibitor at higher doses (think hypertensive crisis with tyramine interactions (hard cheese, wine, things that contain tyramine --> displace NE --> activation of alpha 1 (vasoconstriction) and B-1 (increase in HR, contractility).
 
smeton_yea said:
I plan to cycle off of Alcar, Sulb, and Applied Nutieuticals Am and PM formula, which contain.

The Am formula contains, 600 mgs I beleive, If any Applied Nuticeutical reps want to chime in, I take three capsules.Applied Nutriceuticals is good stuff ,a positive review here.
The Am formula
Green Tea
Mucuna Pruriens(standarized 25 % L-Dopa)
Bacopa Monnieri
and Caffeine(Anhydrous)

Pm formula, the same as above
Green Tea
Mucuna Pruriens(standarized 25 % L-Dopa)
Bacopa Monnieri
Banaba Extract(1% Corosolic Acid)

I plan to cycle off of these, in one month,and "replace" these with clear Edge which I think will Clear Edge me,lol.
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whats ur height and weight? u'll love am and pm formula, and clear edge rocks as well ;)
 
If anyone has read my thread I just started in the USP forum the killer dopamine combo could be Powerfull and anything containing L-Dopa (IGF-2, Lipotrophin AM/PM, Fyre). I think I found out what Powerfull truly is, check out the thread for more info but it looks like a COMT enzyme inhibitor allowing more L-Dopa across the BBB.
 
Here is what you do....

You smooth talk a nurse in the ER, fake an MI. When she leaves grab as many bags of Dobutamine as possiblle, and its smoooth sailing...
 
Isnt that what happened in the movie "Crank'? he had to inject some chemical he highjacked froma hospital to keep him going. i don't know if it was dopamine or Norephenine.Good Movie!
 
Dobutamine is a selective B1-agonist so it very could have well been.

The best cardiac stimulant movie scene is from Pulp Fiction...That Epi woke that B!tch up!! lol,


Socrates random fact of the day:
Norepinephrine-Has no stimulatory effect on the heart, however causes an increase in PVR
 
Quick update... inspired by this thread, I've increased my PEA intake just to see. I'm on 5 mg deprenyl a day (have been for months) and have used up to 200mg of PEA when feeling a need for an antidepressant, which is never more than a couple times a week, sometimes several weeks without.

The past week I've been hitting my deprenyl with a very light breakfast (food enhances dep's absorption by something like 400%) then 45 min to an hour later hitting 200mg of PEA (bulk NutraPlanet brand) on what should be a pretty empty stomach. Reportedly, even with regular usage of deprenyl, it's still advisable to use the two in close proximity for maximum PEA effect in the gut.

Granted it's only been a week, but I've seen a consistent boost in mood and the amount of work I've gotten done, with no noticeable tolerance. The effect over a week seems very clean and consistent. I'm going to carry this over into a second week, and see if it stays as effective. I need Dsade to hook me up with more PEA baby. :D
 
Regardless of your reason, check out this product:

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I've ordered a number of products from them and have been very pleased.

Gumbo
 
BruFan said:
Quick update... inspired by this thread, I've increased my PEA intake just to see. I'm on 5 mg deprenyl a day (have been for months) and have used up to 200mg of PEA when feeling a need for an antidepressant, which is never more than a couple times a week, sometimes several weeks without.

The past week I've been hitting my deprenyl with a very light breakfast (food enhances dep's absorption by something like 400%) then 45 min to an hour later hitting 200mg of PEA (bulk NutraPlanet brand) on what should be a pretty empty stomach. Reportedly, even with regular usage of deprenyl, it's still advisable to use the two in close proximity for maximum PEA effect in the gut.

Granted it's only been a week, but I've seen a consistent boost in mood and the amount of work I've gotten done, with no noticeable tolerance. The effect over a week seems very clean and consistent. I'm going to carry this over into a second week, and see if it stays as effective. I need Dsade to hook me up with more PEA baby. :D
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Im looking forward to your results as most of us that dont have deprenyl use hord., which works well with pea. One question do you know if deprenyl raises blood pressure?
 
Gumbo said:
Regardless of your reason, check out this product:

Invalid Link Removed

I've ordered a number of products from them and have been very pleased.

Gumbo
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So does nobody else think that Powerfull could be Carbidopa??[see USP forum, Powerfull=1C=] If so this could be the ultimate supplemental stack for dopamine. L-Dopa, Green Tea, Quercetin, Powerfull, Pea and Hordenine.

Invalid Link Removed

Also maybe Kava Kava for more MAO-B suppression. If Powerfull is not carbidopa it would still be good without it, you have COMT and MAO-B enzyme enhibitors to enhance the Dopamine and PEA. Someone smarter than me should really look into this carbidopa though, a naturally occuring peripheral dopamine decarboxylase antagonist would be huge.
 
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Well here is a pretty big list of helpful drugs. Don't know how many are possible to get w/o a script though.
 
Invalid Link Removed

Well here is a pretty big list of helpful drugs. Don't know how many are possible to get w/o a script though.

Invalid Link Removed

St. Johns Wort may slow down the conversion of dopamine to norepinepherine.
 
jasonschaffin said:
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Well here is a pretty big list of helpful drugs. Don't know how many are possible to get w/o a script though.

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St. Johns Wort may slow down the conversion of dopamine to norepinepherine.
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Interesting. Thanks.

By the way, the UN link posted above by Gumbo is where I get my L-Deprenyl from usually. Reliable and safe, IMHO.
 
smeton_yea said:
The Ability to not even think, its like Im on automatic with the ability to talk smoothly, clealy free flow, and have increased mental cogitive function.

Yesterdat I went for a job interview ...Out of nowhere I came up with these big words, I look words up in the dictionary when Im reading a book or dont know the meaning, and I kid you not, I walked out of that office , thought back to what I said during the interview and ACTUALLY IMPRESSED MYSELF with the huge words that were interconnected and woven togegther all in one sentence or connecting the sentence. After i was riding in the car I started laughing out loud real hard and genuiely because I did so good. No joke. Sulb seems to possibly make you mental aggressive or maybe not mentallly aggressive but just everything though,, idea, connecting and flowing almost on automatic.
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Sulbutiamine selectively stimulates the speech and language centers of the brain. What you've reported is precisely the effect it should provide. I take it before I negotiate or litigate and notice the same fluency with language.
 
Name:
Deprenyl (Selegiline) 5 mg 50 tabs

-Description-
Deprenyl (also known as Jumex, Juprenil, Selegiline) is a derivative of the amino acid L-Phenylalanine. It is a prescription drug wordwide for over a dozen health conditions and is used in pet medicine.

Deprenyl (brand name Juprenil) 5 mg 50 tablets 1 Box

-Neurochemical Effects-

- Inhibits the human brain enzyme MAO-B. MAO B increases with age and breaks down the vitally important neurotransmitter Dopamine. (Boosts Dopamine levels, Mood/Mental Energy/Motivation Enhancer)

-Boosts PhenylEthylAmine levels 1300-3500%. (Helps maintain focus, concentration, alertness and effortful attention.)

- Has Potent NeuroAntioxidant & NeuroProtective effects by raising Brain SOD levels.

-Also see-

Be sure to check out Deprenyl: The Antiaging Drug in our Smart Book section.

-Dose-

1-40 mg daily with meals.

OK so these only come in five mg tablets. Is that enough to even prolong the Pea? or how many mgs is?

One Hordenine tablet is fifty mgs. Maybe thats why it is potent

Is it really a big deal in terms of effectiveness to use Deprenyl over hordenine? *Is Deprenyl healthier and safer than Hordenine?* If so much big of a difference?

We are breaking this down and getting into some deep stuff here.=)
 
Just curious...

Why would somebody want to increase their brain dopamine levels?

Doesn't an increase in dopamine have a corresponding rise in heartrate and blood pressure?

-TT
 
TINYTOAD said:
Just curious...

Why would somebody want to increase their brain dopamine levels?

Doesn't an increase in dopamine have a corresponding rise in heartrate and blood pressure?

-TT
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Pea is used for clarity and focus. Responding to your second comment..Thats what Ive heard ; however I tryed Gaspari's Cytolean sample which has pea/hordenine in it on friday a few hours before a doctor visit and the blood pressure monitor read 110/70 or 70/110. Its the Very healthy one. So my blood pressure is low. Like all things if you eat right , sleep good and stay away from too much stress than there should be nothing to be concerned about. Sporadic use is advised, unless other wise recommended by your doctor.
 
smeton_yea said:
Is it really a big deal in terms of effectiveness to use Deprenyl over hordenine? *Is Deprenyl healthier and safer than Hordenine?* If so much big of a difference?

We are breaking this down and getting into some deep stuff here.=)
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Is Deprenyl healthier and safer than Hord? IMHO, absolutely... Dep has quite a few other uses in the brain besides just the MAOI action. It's on the top of a few Life Extensionists drug lists for it's neuroprotective and anti-aging properties, it stimulates Invalid Link Removed release which is excellent, and a few other things. There was some research I was reading regarding it's MAO function actually protecting against the cheese effect, but it escapes me now.

And yeah, 5 mg is plenty. I started at 10mg per day, then down to 5mg ... and now I take half a tab, 2.5 mg every day unless I feel I need a boost one day, in which case I'll go up to 10mg. This is for general health, focus, mood and motivation... so YMMV. I personally would never go above 15mg per day... that's getting too close to inhibiting MAO-A for my taste. My experience with Dep and PEA is that PEA seemed to work best after about a week to 2 weeks of daily dep (to get all the MAO tied up, and your own PEA levels built up) and then taken shortly after the daily dose.

You also can't compare the dosage size of Hord and Dep, not only is Dep a pharmaceutical, but it's also an irreversible inhibitor... the MAO that it ties up is tied up for two weeks. Hord is a reversible inhibitor.
 
BruFan said:
Is Deprenyl healthier and safer than Hord? IMHO, absolutely... Dep has quite a few other uses in the brain besides just the MAOI action. It's on the top of a few Life Extensionists drug lists for it's neuroprotective and anti-aging properties, it stimulates Invalid Link Removed release which is excellent, and a few other things. There was some research I was reading regarding it's MAO function actually protecting against the cheese effect, but it escapes me now.

And yeah, 5 mg is plenty. I started at 10mg per day, then down to 5mg ... and now I take half a tab, 2.5 mg every day unless I feel I need a boost one day, in which case I'll go up to 10mg. This is for general health, focus, mood and motivation... so YMMV. I personally would never go above 15mg per day... that's getting too close to inhibiting MAO-A for my taste. My experience with Dep and PEA is that PEA seemed to work best after about a week to 2 weeks of daily dep (to get all the MAO tied up, and your own PEA levels built up) and then taken shortly after the daily dose.

You also can't compare the dosage size of Hord and Dep, not only is Dep a pharmaceutical, but it's also an irreversible inhibitor... the MAO that it ties up is tied up for two weeks. Hord is a reversible inhibitor.
Click to expand...

Bru, This is from Pub Med.

Deamination of hordenine by monoamine oxidase and its action on vasa deferentia of the rat.Barwell CJ, Basma AN, Lafi MA, Leake LD.
School of Pharmacy, Portsmouth Polytechnic, Hampshire, UK.

The selectivity of the naturally occurring amine, N,N-dimethyltyramine (hordenine) for monoamine oxidase (MAO) and its action upon isolated vasa deferentia of the rat was investigated. Hordenine was deaminated by rat liver MAO with a Michaelis constant of 479 microM and maximum velocity of 128 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 compared with 144 microM and 482 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 for tyramine. Studies, with selective irreversible inhibitors of MAO, showed that hordenine was a highly selective substrate for MAO-B of liver and that it was not deaminated by the MAO-A of intestinal epithelium. In contrast to tyramine, hordenine did not produce contractions of isolated vasa deferentia. However, 25 microM hordenine potentiated contractile responses of vasa, from control animals, to submaximal doses of noradrenaline and inhibited responses to tyramine. It did not alter responses, to noradrenaline, of vasa denervated by chronic pretreatment of rats with guanethidine. Therefore, it appears that hordenine acted as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake, in isolated vasa deferentia. These results indicate that dietary-hordenine is unlikely to be deaminated by intestinal MAO as this is predominantly MAO-A. Consequently, it is likely to be absorbed and could affect the sympathetic nervous system, by virtue of its action as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake.

PMID: 2570842 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

So from this understanding do Dep and Hordenine both prolonging Pea? Answer Yes

You say Dep is healthier safer than Hord. From what I see Hord looks relatively safe. This is where confusion sets in. Hord works on Mao , or mao -a , or mao-b...or did this article say both? these mao thingies prolong the Pea correct?

Dep works on which one?

so my analyses is if both work on the same Mao then how could one be safer. This is where it is forgein.:pizza: pizza anyone?=)
 
smeton_yea said:
Bru, This is from Pub Med.

Deamination of hordenine by monoamine oxidase and its action on vasa deferentia of the rat.Barwell CJ, Basma AN, Lafi MA, Leake LD.
School of Pharmacy, Portsmouth Polytechnic, Hampshire, UK.

The selectivity of the naturally occurring amine, N,N-dimethyltyramine (hordenine) for monoamine oxidase (MAO) and its action upon isolated vasa deferentia of the rat was investigated. Hordenine was deaminated by rat liver MAO with a Michaelis constant of 479 microM and maximum velocity of 128 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 compared with 144 microM and 482 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 for tyramine. Studies, with selective irreversible inhibitors of MAO, showed that hordenine was a highly selective substrate for MAO-B of liver and that it was not deaminated by the MAO-A of intestinal epithelium. In contrast to tyramine, hordenine did not produce contractions of isolated vasa deferentia. However, 25 microM hordenine potentiated contractile responses of vasa, from control animals, to submaximal doses of noradrenaline and inhibited responses to tyramine. It did not alter responses, to noradrenaline, of vasa denervated by chronic pretreatment of rats with guanethidine. Therefore, it appears that hordenine acted as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake, in isolated vasa deferentia. These results indicate that dietary-hordenine is unlikely to be deaminated by intestinal MAO as this is predominantly MAO-A. Consequently, it is likely to be absorbed and could affect the sympathetic nervous system, by virtue of its action as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake.

PMID: 2570842 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

So from this understanding do Dep and Hordenine both prolonging Pea? Answer Yes

You say Dep is healthier safer than Hord. From what I see Hord looks relatively safe. This is where confusion sets in. Hord works on Mao , or mao -a , or mao-b...or did this article say both? these mao thingies prolong the Pea correct?

Dep works on which one?

so my analyses is if both work on the same Mao then how could one be safer. This is where it is forgein.:pizza: pizza anyone?=)
Click to expand...

From what I understand, hordenine is a selective inhibitor of MAO-B, as long as the dosage isn't too high (it will inhibit MAO-A also after a certain dosage). MAO-A is found in the GI tract, but not MAO-B. Inhibition of A is what leads to the cheese effect. If a selective MAO-B inhibitor is used, it shouldn't present a problem with diet. Dep is the same thing. Neither one of these should present a diet problem as long as the dosages are low enough.

However, to me, it seems like hord would be safer. Hord being a reversible inhibitor, any adverse reaction you might have would not last very long. If you take some medication you shouldn't take on an MAOI, the reversibility of the MAOI would probably be a good thing. If not, and your MAO-B's are out of whack for 2 weeks, who knows what could happen?

Anyway, that said, I'm hungry and it's time for lunch. :food:

*takes pizza* mmm
 
Increased focus on this combo is noticable, the mood enhancement is just something that comes along with the focus. 250 pea/50 hord is plenty. why would you even dose it higher? Well maybe once in a very bue moon, possibly on your Birthday, a special occasion,or what-not, at least once every three -six months. If not once every sixth months to a year. Thats my analyses. Two hundred fifty mgs of pea / fifty hordenine...This dose works fine. What are yours thoughts?
 
i thought id post this since i thought it was interesting...

The effects of a branched chain amino acid mixture supplemented with tryptophan on biochemical indices of neurotransmitter function and decision-making.

* Scarna A,
* McTavish SF,
* Cowen PJ,
* Goodwin GM,
* Rogers RD.

University Department of Psychiatry, Warneford Hospital, Oxford, OX37JX, UK. [email protected]

RATIONALE: We have previously shown that a 60-g mixture of branched chain amino acids (BCAAs) lowers the plasma availability of the catecholamine precursors tyrosine (TYR) and phenylalanine (PHE) and produces biochemical and neuropsychological changes consistent with impaired dopamine neurotransmission. However, the BCAA mixture also lowers the ratio of tryptophan (TRP) to BCAA which could impair brain serotonin function. OBJECTIVES: To determine the biochemical and neuropsychological effects of a BCAA mixture supplemented with TRP. METHODS: We studied 32 healthy volunteers who were randomly and blindly allocated to either a single administration of amino acid mixture (60 g BCAA and 2 g TRP) or placebo. We carried out venous sampling to measure plasma levels of amino acids and performed selected cognitive tasks sensitive to monoamine manipulation 5 h after mixture ingestion. RESULTS: Relative to placebo, the BCAA/TRP mixture substantially lowered the ratio of TYR+PHE:BCAA and increased plasma prolactin. The ratio of TRP:BCAA was also lowered but to a lesser extent. The BCAA/TRP mixture produced significant changes in a task of decision-making where volunteers showed reduced discrimination between gambles with large and small losses. CONCLUSIONS: A 62 g BCAA/TRP mixture decreases the availability of TYR and PHE for brain catecholamine synthesis and increases plasma prolactin consistent with lowered brain dopamine function. Addition of 2 g TRP to the 60 g BCAA mixture does not prevent a reduction of the ratio TRP:BCAA relative to placebo.[/B] The effects of the BCAA/TRP mixture on decision-making suggest a general action of dopamine pathways on the processing of emotional information in risky choice, including punishment-related cues, consistent with suggestions that dopamine mechanisms mediate behavioural responses to aversive as well as appetitive stimuli in instrumental conditioning.

PMID: 15696331 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

one more!

Emotion-based decision-making in healthy subjects: short-term effects of reducing dopamine levels.

* Sevy S,
* Hassoun Y,
* Bechara A,
* Yechiam E,
* Napolitano B,
* Burdick K,
* Delman H,
* Malhotra A.

Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Yeshiva University, Bronx, and Psychiatry Research Department , The Zucker Hillside Hospital, Glen Oaks, NY, USA. [email protected]

INTRODUCTION: Converging evidences from animal and human studies suggest that addiction is associated with dopaminergic dysfunction in brain reward circuits. So far, it is unclear what aspects of addictive behaviors are related to a dopaminergic dysfunction. DISCUSSION: We hypothesize that a decrease in dopaminergic activity impairs emotion-based decision-making. To demonstrate this hypothesis, we investigated the effects of a decrease in dopaminergic activity on the performance of an emotion-based decision-making task, the Iowa gambling task (IGT), in 11 healthy human subjects. MATERIALS AND METHODS: We used a double-blind, placebo-controlled, within-subject design to examine the effect of a mixture containing the branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) valine, isoleucine and leucine on prolactin, IGT performance, perceptual competency and visual aspects of visuospatial working memory, visual attention and working memory, and verbal memory. The expectancy-valence model was used to determine the relative contributions of distinct IGT components (attention to past outcomes, relative weight of wins and losses, and choice strategies) in the decision-making process. OBSERVATIONS AND RESULTS: Compared to placebo, the BCAA mixture increased prolactin levels and impaired IGT performance. BCAA administration interfered with a particular component process of decision-making related to attention to more recent events as compared to more distant events. There were no differences between placebo and BCAA conditions for other aspects of cognition. Our results suggest a direct link between a reduced dopaminergic activity and poor emotion-based decision-making characterized by shortsightedness, and thus difficulties resisting short-term reward, despite long-term negative consequences. These findings have implications for behavioral and pharmacological interventions targeting impaired emotion-based decision-making in addictive disorders.

ive never dosed BCAA's that high but i have been what most consider "megadosing" with 20-30g during workouts and have noticed changes that may be explained by low dopamine levels.

PMID: 16915385 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
Celebrated my birthday Say Night away from Home. Family went up to my brothers college to be together as a family on Easter Sunday. My Biorthdat was Friday. Have some friends at my bros college went out with. Did 200-300 grams Pea and 50 hord. Nice and clean. Gave my friend some. He didnt comment on it just said he enjoyed himself. Yes there were Girls, took some pics=) went to sleep , just up ate a banana...Isnt Trysomething in a banana a mood booster? would it work with Pea or hord or both? anyways Easter Sunday us family went out to eat ..then took about 100 pea on the drive back home. Hord wasnt needed because it was still in my system from the night before. Noticable mood enhancement.
 
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