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HGH & Torn Tendon

I have medial epicondylitis on my right arm...which is golfer's elbow. Happens on the inside of the the elbow, it's the same as tennis elbow, just the opposite side.

I've been through just about everything on it. I've been through tons and tons of NSAIDs, 2 cortisone shots (I didn't realize how bad they were for you until I did some reading on it, Doctor acted like it was no big deal to give the injection so I went along with it blindly)
After finding out how bad it was I tried prolotherapy. They inject the sight with an inflammatory which causes localized inflammation and causes the osteoblasts and osteoclasts (I think I remember that right) to emerge on the area. It hurts pretty bad but like I said, it's back to 90%.
My arm was so bad that at one time I literally couldn't squeeze a stapler (talk about feeling manly).
It's not too bad now, unless I try to do something heavy and then it hurts.
I probably should have had surgery and gotten it over with but I've read too many bad things about surgery and was advised numerous times to try everything I can first and then resort to surgery as my last resort.
That and the fact that I have two kids and I'm the sole financial provider in my house and my sick leave pay from my job only pays 65% so I'd be in a world of financial trouble if I had to take a couple of months off. There is no work restricted work here where I work (I work in a corrections facility as a deputy).

Everyone take my advise....if it hurts...STOP. It's definately been an eye opening experience that I don't care to experience again.
 
My rehab...

5-10 lb weight...wrist curls, reverse wrist curls, wrist pronation/supination, overhead tricep extension, concentration curl.
 
firefighter2032 said:
My rehab...

5-10 lb weight...wrist curls, reverse wrist curls, wrist pronation/supination, overhead tricep extension, concentration curl.
Click to expand...

Is there any pain when you do this?

I'm sorry the doctors gave you cortisone, that was really the wrong thing to do for a torn tendon.
 
No pain during the actualy exercise. I have pain if you push on the epicondyle in one small part. Other than that the tendon will be sore if I do too much with it or if my arm is on the table and it rolls on the epicondyle. No pain during rest though. The worst pain is with my arm at full extension and my hand is in the flexed position pushing on something.

To my understanding this can be a hard injury to heal due to a low blood supply to the area.

Also, the brilliant doctor told me when he gave me the shots that I was to give it 2 weeks to let the medicine sink in and then I could go back to regular activity. I asked him specifically about working out and he said "no problem". So I went back to hitting it hard and after 2 months was in worse pain than before. Same story with shot number 2. I had a "speciliast" offer to inject it a third time with cortisone and I think the look on my face told it all. I did politely decline and explained the research I had found (thank goodness for the internet)
 
firefighter2032 said:
No pain during the actualy exercise. I have pain if you push on the epicondyle in one small part. Other than that the tendon will be sore if I do too much with it or if my arm is on the table and it rolls on the epicondyle. No pain during rest though. The worst pain is with my arm at full extension and my hand is in the flexed position pushing on something.

To my understanding this can be a hard injury to heal due to a low blood supply to the area.

Also, the brilliant doctor told me when he gave me the shots that I was to give it 2 weeks to let the medicine sink in and then I could go back to regular activity. I asked him specifically about working out and he said "no problem". So I went back to hitting it hard and after 2 months was in worse pain than before. Same story with shot number 2. I had a "speciliast" offer to inject it a third time with cortisone and I think the look on my face told it all. I did politely decline and explained the research I had found (thank goodness for the internet)
Click to expand...

Your going to have to judge when it is ready to take more weight, but you said no pain during exercise and that means to me to raise the rehab weight a little bit. It may take a little longer to heal because of the cortisone shots than my injuries. As you have already figured out cortisone is bad. If you think you have swelling then the ice, then heat, then ice, then heat cycling will get swelling down.
 
Doc,

I actually live in the Flint area...so if you know anyone around here, that would be great...convincing my doctor to refer me would be a whole other story
 
Dr. John said:
Only GH elevates IGFBP-3, which protects you from the cancer promoting activity of IGF-1.

Some of the guys using that stuff are going to be really sorry they did one of these days.
Click to expand...
I have studied IGF-1 for many years. In all that time, I have not seen where IGF-1 can cause cancer. I know that cancerous cells express IGF-1 in large amounts but that is extremely different from adding IGF-1 to healthy cells.

Most of the scientific evidence about cancer points to DNA damage as the culprit. There is ABSOLUTELY *NO* scientific basis for the idea that IGF-1, be it Long R3 or not, can cause DNA damage.

I'm assuming you believe that a cancerous cell will multiply more when exogenous IGF-1 is added? But ... That is not CAUSING cancer. That is speeding up the growth of existing cancer. And there are many many IF's about adding exogenous IGF-1 to cancerous cells.

I would like further explanation please.
 
Dr. John said:
Before you get back to training, make sure to see an Osteopathic physician with specialized training in OMT (Osteopathic Manipulative Training).

As the arm straightens, it is due to the tricep contracting. No news there. But the bicep must correspondingly lengthen, and exactly the right amount, to balance as an antagonistic muscle group. This coordination is critical. Violent movements "confuse" the mind as to the relative positions of the biceps versus the triceps. Such asynchrony dramatically increases the risk of injury.

Biceps can tear because of an imbalance in proprioception (the mind's impression of the positions of all our joints) between the bicep and the tricep. That is why you hear stories of a guy rolling up his bicep just reaching out his arm quickly--like to snag an errant throw.

You have lost some bicep length because of what happened to you. An OMT specialist can quickly and easily restore your proprioception at that joint. I can recommend several excellent OMT practitioners in the Lansing area, depending on where you are in Michigan.
Click to expand...
The above post by Dr John may be a second break thru for me.
First came about week and half ago when I realized that my core muscles on my right side are significantly stronger than on the left side. That may be a main reason for my back, frequently going out of alignment, for the last 45 years, and my spine having slight S-shape with middle of the "S" being at L3 vertebrae.
I am exercising my core, lay on the side, support body on out stretched elbow and a heel of the foot on the floor, lifting hips up/down.

At one point, when my left side get stronger, I may face a balancing of proprioception problem.
.
Dr John, any comments here?
 
thanks doc

Another quick question...

Do you have any opionions on MD's vs DO's as primary physicians?

Is there a difference in their thought process on how to treat people?

I would like to find a doctor who looks to find the cause of a problem and fix it instead of prescribing a medicine that covers the pain.
 
firefighter2032 said:
thanks doc

Another quick question...

Do you have any opionions on MD's vs DO's as primary physicians?

Is there a difference in their thought process on how to treat people?

I would like to find a doctor who looks to find the cause of a problem and fix it instead of prescribing a medicine that covers the pain.
Click to expand...

This should be fun. lol
 
firefighter2032 said:
thanks doc

Another quick question...

Do you have any opionions on MD's vs DO's as primary physicians?

Is there a difference in their thought process on how to treat people?

I would like to find a doctor who looks to find the cause of a problem and fix it instead of prescribing a medicine that covers the pain.
Click to expand...


Firefighter- If you can get a DO as your primary care Doc, DO IT!!! My son's PCP was a DO, as is our Dr John here, two of the best medical practitioners I've ever dealt with.

In general, I'd also usually prefer to deal with a Nurse Practitioner or Physician's Assistant (my dermatologist is a PA) than an MD.

What makes all of these professionals so great to work with is that they treat ME, not my labs. They actually listen to my symptoms and seem to care about healing me, not just treating me, if that makes sense.

Thre are lots of good MD's out there, two, but the odds of finding a compassionate doc are much better if you look outside the MD ranks.
 
Makes perfect sense and exactly my thoughts.

Thanks...There is a doctor in the same complex as my current doctor that is a DO. I was thinking of checking him out.
 
firefighter2032 said:
never mind...talked with a co-worker that goes to him. Another doctor that won't refer you out and is a pain to deal with.
Click to expand...


That's disappointing. I guess there are bad DO's, too. Hard to understand, since they go through about 25% more training than an MD, and the focus is on healing the patient. :-(

I heard Dr Mirkin make a joke the other day on his radio program that is so telling:

Q: Do you know the difference between doctors and God?

A: God doesn't think he is a doctor.
 
firefighter2032 said:
never mind...talked with a co-worker that goes to him. Another doctor that won't refer you out and is a pain to deal with.
Click to expand...

You may locate doctor trying this:
Invalid Link Removed

or this:
Invalid Link Removed

or this, by our Dr John
OFFICE VISIT FEE - Office or Virtual $ 50.00
Invalid Link Removed
.
.
 
Werewolf,

You were right, about two weeks in to taking the Oratropin I have really started feeling better. Amazingly the pain of the where the muscle attaches to the bone feels much better.

Don't know how to say thanks enough for the information you gave me. Best advise I've had in a long time.

Thanks
 
firefighter2032 said:
Werewolf,

You were right, about two weeks in to taking the Oratropin I have really started feeling better. Amazingly the pain of the where the muscle attaches to the bone feels much better.

Don't know how to say thanks enough for the information you gave me. Best advise I've had in a long time.

Thanks
Click to expand...

You're welcome. It is definitely time for controlled rehab. You need the slow increase in weight to continue to strengthen the tendon.

Good luck.
 
Took a dose a week ago and the pain had dissapeared...now here I am a week later...still no pain and I put my arm through a decent rehab session. No knee pain either that I usually experience this time of year with the wonderful Michigan weather that occurs here.

Damn it feels good to not have that nagging pain...to just think that I'll someday be able to workout again...WOW.
 
Dr. John said:
I'm thinking this made practice MUCH more interesting for your team mates!
Click to expand...

oh, I'm sure they did. She was definitely a sexy girl and not afraid to show it. I took a lot of ribbing from my team mates and coach. I would tell just them what ever she wants is fine with me, she is worth it and just smile really big.

The looks I got from some of the girls on the team.
 
firefighter2032 said:
I've taken two half doses of the Oratropin-1 and I've used the PGH-t twice now. I have to say, my arm is feeling pretty good. Whether this is because of the supplements or because it's healing from my last prolotherapy shot I cannot be for sure. But at this point, I'm willing to not ask questions and just go with what feels good.

The metallic taste from the PGH-t is no joke, it's a strange sensation, not overbearable, just strange. That and the desire I had to go and gnaw on the re-bar. I'll keep everyone posted. I can say I honestly have dreams of being able to hit the weights and workout like normal people.

Werewolf, thanks again for all your advise.
Click to expand...



Hows the arm...?

and did you follow the protocol Werewolf suggested..? results..? Sides?
 
First, Thanks for asking...

I've followed Werewolfs protocol every step of the way.

My results...amazing

Sides...None that I've seen except a loss in body fat.

The only thing I feel in my arm anymore that is out of place is a sort of tingling sensation. If I had to guess I'd have to guess that there's still some re-connecting going on. I do full body workouts every three days and ice my arm after each workout (Just as precaution). My arm feels fine, but I find myself still babying it in my day to day routines just because that's what I've trained myself to do for the past 2.5 years.

But I have to say that a couple of weeks ago I had a sense of happiness that I haven't felt in a long time. I put a 45 pound plate on each side of the bar on a bench press and did 2 sets of 10. I know it doesn't sound like much to most around but for someone who hasn't had the ability to do it, it was awesome. I can say that I've written PM's to werewolf on several occassions and consistantly asked him for his advise on my situation and he has been right on the money with each suggestion.

The one thing that I've personally found that helped my arm is jogging and jump roping. One of the problems for an injury such as I had is the lack of blood supply to the area. By running and jump roping I forced the area to have an increase of blood flow to the area and I believe helped get nutrients in there to increase the healing.

The only delimna I've had is how to thank a guy enough or properly. Especially someone you've never met. Werewolf definately has my eternal gratitude.
 
firefighter2032 said:
First, Thanks for asking...

I've followed Werewolfs protocol every step of the way.

My results...amazing

Sides...None that I've seen except a loss in body fat.

The only thing I feel in my arm anymore that is out of place is a sort of tingling sensation. If I had to guess I'd have to guess that there's still some re-connecting going on. I do full body workouts every three days and ice my arm after each workout (Just as precaution). My arm feels fine, but I find myself still babying it in my day to day routines just because that's what I've trained myself to do for the past 2.5 years.

But I have to say that a couple of weeks ago I had a sense of happiness that I haven't felt in a long time. I put a 45 pound plate on each side of the bar on a bench press and did 2 sets of 10. I know it doesn't sound like much to most around but for someone who hasn't had the ability to do it, it was awesome. I can say that I've written PM's to werewolf on several occassions and consistantly asked him for his advise on my situation and he has been right on the money with each suggestion.

The one thing that I've personally found that helped my arm is jogging and jump roping. One of the problems for an injury such as I had is the lack of blood supply to the area. By running and jump roping I forced the area to have an increase of blood flow to the area and I believe helped get nutrients in there to increase the healing.

The only delimna I've had is how to thank a guy enough or properly. Especially someone you've never met. Werewolf definately has my eternal gratitude.
Click to expand...

Thats cool man, congrats....

I know how you feel....I just spent the last yr gettin myself back to feeling good, only to re-injure.......



I planned on makin a comeback, in alot of ways, and had some big ideas for the summer....My knees are givin me consatnt pain, and now my shoulder is torn...I need a solution that will get me back in the game before its too late....or perhaps it is already....I'm at a popint where it s difficult to train legs cause of my knees, they hurt when they are bent for too long, and I have to straighten them for relief; and my shoulder shuts down my upper body training.....Hittin the heavy bag was my stress relief....Im feelin depressed ...


Can you outline exactly what you did...? I tried Cissus for 3 months and my knees are still killin me....

I saw that you still "babied" your arm..... I did that for about 6 mos, and then gradually increased until I felt 100%. My arm felt better and stronger that I ever remembered, right up until the day of re-injury....
 
I used Oratropin, PGH-T, and Cissus.

The Oratropin I used a half dose every 72 hours (every third day).
I took Cissus 3 times a day, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, and one before bed.
And I used the PGH-t every night before bed (That stuff makes you sleep so good)
I'm actually a third shifter so any help with a good sleep is great.

I also did my physical therapy every day. Before I did the exercises I used a heating pad to warm my arm up (can't remember the name brand but it's the one that uses the moist heat) and after I finished my exercises I iced the area. With my arm I did wrist curls, wrist extensions, pronation, and concentration curls (to help the tendon stretch). I would not up the weight on my Physical Therapy until I could do 3 sets of 20 reps of each exercise w/o any soreness or pain.

I also massaged the affected area every day. There's a hundred names for it but most I've found call it friction massage. I don't know if that's something you'd be able to do with your shoulder, but it seemed to really help my arm. I also used tiger balm as my lotion (stuff gets good and hot).

I've had troubles with knee pains since high school football. I used glucosamin/chrondroitin for years with good success but once I started using the oratropin my knee pain completely dissappeared.

I do understand your depression, I went through my own fair share of "dark" times when I just couldn't seem to get my arm back to health and I just felt like I couldn't win. Give the Oratropin a shot and I don't believe you'll be dissapointed.
 
christopher said:
Thats cool man, congrats....

I know how you feel....I just spent the last yr gettin myself back to feeling good, only to re-injure.......



I planned on makin a comeback, in alot of ways, and had some big ideas for the summer....My knees are givin me consatnt pain, and now my shoulder is torn...I need a solution that will get me back in the game before its too late....or perhaps it is already....I'm at a popint where it s difficult to train legs cause of my knees, they hurt when they are bent for too long, and I have to straighten them for relief; and my shoulder shuts down my upper body training.....Hittin the heavy bag was my stress relief....Im feelin depressed ...


Can you outline exactly what you did...? I tried Cissus for 3 months and my knees are still killin me....

I saw that you still "babied" your arm..... I did that for about 6 mos, and then gradually increased until I felt 100%. My arm felt better and stronger that I ever remembered, right up until the day of re-injury....
Click to expand...

MRI both knees and shoulders, 4x$900, most likely covered by insurance, may tell you a lot.

I did that, down time after (small problem) and arthroscopic surgery, one to two weeks. With my right shoulder I did not had such a luck, waited too long, 3 anchors to reattach torn supraspinatus tendon, downtime about a year.
 
firefighter2032 said:
I used Oratropin, PGH-T, and Cissus.

The Oratropin I used a half dose every 72 hours (every third day).
I took Cissus 3 times a day, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, and one before bed.
And I used the PGH-t every night before bed (That stuff makes you sleep so good)
I'm actually a third shifter so any help with a good sleep is great.

I also did my physical therapy every day. Before I did the exercises I used a heating pad to warm my arm up (can't remember the name brand but it's the one that uses the moist heat) and after I finished my exercises I iced the area. With my arm I did wrist curls, wrist extensions, pronation, and concentration curls (to help the tendon stretch). I would not up the weight on my Physical Therapy until I could do 3 sets of 20 reps of each exercise w/o any soreness or pain.

I also massaged the affected area every day. There's a hundred names for it but most I've found call it friction massage. I don't know if that's something you'd be able to do with your shoulder, but it seemed to really help my arm. I also used tiger balm as my lotion (stuff gets good and hot).

I've had troubles with knee pains since high school football. I used glucosamin/chrondroitin for years with good success but once I started using the oratropin my knee pain completely dissappeared.

I do understand your depression, I went through my own fair share of "dark" times when I just couldn't seem to get my arm back to health and I just felt like I couldn't win. Give the Oratropin a shot and I don't believe you'll be dissapointed.
Click to expand...

hey thankx man....

Care if I paste this response in my IGF-1 section thread..?

Or you could post....
Invalid Link Removed

Thankx again....
 
firefighter2032 said:
I used Oratropin, PGH-T, and Cissus.

The Oratropin I used a half dose every 72 hours (every third day).


but once I started using the oratropin my knee pain completely dissappeared.

Give the Oratropin a shot and I don't believe you'll be dissapointed.
Click to expand...

I googled oratrophin....Did you get it from IBE?

Didnt read anything positive about it on the web....
 
christopher said:
I googled oratrophin....Did you get it from IBE?

Didnt read anything positive about it on the web....
Click to expand...

Oratrophin seem to work best for healing injuries, but injection seems to be better for building muscles. A lot of people trying Oratrophin took it thinking it was going to build muscles rapidly like steriods. It doesn't. A lot of these people never did their homework before trying. IGF-1R3 builds new muscles that mature later. Oratrophin is no longer being sold, people were just starting to understand how well it worked for healing injuries when they pulled it for slow sales. The time release, the fact that it went systematic, and cell-mediation seemed make ideal for injury healing. I think to get same effectiveness you may need to inject several times a day. This doesn't mean less times of the day have are not effective.
 
Werewolf said:
Oratrophin seem to work best for healing injuries, but injection seems to be better for building muscles. A lot of people trying Oratrophin took it thinking it was going to build muscles rapidly like steriods. It doesn't. A lot of these people never did their homework before trying. IGF-1R3 builds new muscles that mature later. Oratrophin is no longer being sold, people were just starting to understand how well it worked for healing injuries when they pulled it for slow sales. The time release, the fact that it went systematic, and cell-mediation seemed make ideal for injury healing. I think to get same effectiveness you may need to inject several times a day. This doesn't mean less times of the day have are not effective.
Click to expand...

Did alot of readin on the ORA...Sux that its gone, and that I didnt know about it when I had my other two surgeries....

I understand the difference in the two forms (inj And oral version) and the systemic effects that the ORA produced...

Saw what you recommended on the IGF board (Thankx)....BTW, DR John, is this ok here..?

Ill see what my doc says tomorrow and report back...maybe Ill have a surgery date....:nutkick:
 
christopher said:
Did alot of readin on the ORA...Sux that its gone, and that I didnt know about it when I had my other two surgeries....

I understand the difference in the two forms (inj And oral version) and the systemic effects that the ORA produced...

Saw what you recommended on the IGF board (Thankx)....BTW, DR John, is this ok here..?

Ill see what my doc says tomorrow and report back...maybe Ill have a surgery date....:nutkick:
Click to expand...

Sorry, but your doctor will likely have no idea or knowledge about it and tell you not to do it. He really can't tell you it is ok to do it since it is not FDA approved.
 
Werewolf said:
Sorry, but your doctor will likely have no idea or knowledge about it and tell you not to do it. He really can't tell you it is ok to do it since it is not FDA approved.
Click to expand...

Im not tellin my doc about the IGF...

Tomorrow is my evaluation ..... See if he recommends surgery or...?
 
my shoulder keeps dislocating ive had surgery a year ago and it just dislocated again i was wondering if hgh would help with this problem?
 
HGH therapy is really effective for such problems. Hope you recover from your elbow problem.



hgh-humangrowthhormone.net :gotsearch
 
hi i'm new to the forum, but i have a similar injury in my right arm. i was wondering if the HGH helped your problem?
 
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