AP; whats the concensus?
- Thread starter ripped22
- Start date
fibercarbon
Banned
im not to sure what my bf% is right now.. i dont do much cardio i mainly do lifting about 5 days a week for about an hour.. benching 225 x 8. curling 80bar x 12.. i need to write down all my max's
motiv8er
Well-known member
Dont take this the wrong way, but you may need to work out a little harder from what you said. WHat is your deadlift, squat, some form of rows, these are of huge importance.
You really may need to start doing cardio if you store bodyfat easily!! Seeing how you bought 4 of them, I am assuming you may! Look up HIIT on the search here, it can really help your insulin and anabolic responses. Right now you may not be getting enough from your program. Cant expect too much from the product then.
Heres the plan:
Add in 20 minutes of cardio at the end of 3 workouts a week, then have a grape juice and whey cocktail immediatly after your workout. Use your sweating as your guide, if you arent sweating much, you need to cardio harder!@!
STart up your own thread in the supps review section man, I'll check it out from time to time.
You really may need to start doing cardio if you store bodyfat easily!! Seeing how you bought 4 of them, I am assuming you may! Look up HIIT on the search here, it can really help your insulin and anabolic responses. Right now you may not be getting enough from your program. Cant expect too much from the product then.
Heres the plan:
Add in 20 minutes of cardio at the end of 3 workouts a week, then have a grape juice and whey cocktail immediatly after your workout. Use your sweating as your guide, if you arent sweating much, you need to cardio harder!@!
STart up your own thread in the supps review section man, I'll check it out from time to time.
fibercarbon
Banned
cool thanks.. im not tryin to bash this product in any way at all.. it most likely is my fault .. :dl: :squat:
Guest
Guest
You are two weeks in?
fibercarbon
Banned
more than 2 weeks.. i took it at 2 pills a day for a while because it gave me the ****s bad the first week.. so im about 3 weeks into it.
Guest
Guest
"Ive been using AP for close to a month now and am actually up about 10 pounds. get this though, Ive dropped 3 inches off my waist. The only thing I've been using is sesathin and fishoils (8/day) Ive never Recomped like this before on any product, I'm totally stoked ! I just got 5 bottles of dcp I'll be stacking with this and I cant wait ! I have my wife using AP also and she is starting to slim down in her midsection. It took her a little while longer to show results than me though, because she is boderline diabetic. Bottom line, get a few bottles and use it per directions. Dont get discouarged if you dont see immediate results as you are probally insulin desensitized. Good luck !"
Quoted from a AM member from the USPLabsdirect forum on AM
Quoted from a AM member from the USPLabsdirect forum on AM
Guest
Guest
"I have been taking AP since it came out and I have dropped 55 pounds (from 340 to 285) without really dieting. I have been doing cardio about 3 days a week and have stopped lifting for power and strength and more for endurance and pumps. I have also been taking Stimulant-X and cAmphibolic. I never feel like I am hungry or depleted. I will be using AP for life."
Quoted from a AM member from the USPLabsdirect forum on AM
Quoted from a AM member from the USPLabsdirect forum on AM
TheUnlikelyToad
Well-known member
This looks like a fun thread. 
MacMan
New member
Approximately 13%. I am naturally lean. 6'1", 205 lbs. Certainly not "insulin resistant".
bLacKjAck.
Lift Heavy
I totally agree with this, when using AP I found way more results when I almost doubled my carb intake, and if you are bulking it def. won't hurt any. Your carb intake seems really low....my .02
workin2005
NIMBUS NUTRITION Co Founder
I think part of the problem here is that many people respond differently to carbs. I personally respond best keeping my carbs below 150 grams per day...maybe slightly more on intense workout days...and my HEALTHY fat intake around 85 grams per day. I know many people that respond better with a higher carb intake (300-350 grams per day) and a very LOW fat intake. The point, we are all different.
AP certainly seems, from all I've read, to allow a greater amount of carbs to be ingested and used efficiently. The key is in finding out what your optimal carb intake is PRIOR to AP, and then increasing it from there logically.
I have recently started AP (yesterday) and will increase my carbs about 75-100 grams per day for a TOTAL of 225-250 grams.
Many may have assumed being on AP meant they could simply feast on carbohydrates as much as they wanted, without giving it much thought. While I'm NO expert on this product, I will say I don't believe that to be the best approach, IMHO.
Workin
AP certainly seems, from all I've read, to allow a greater amount of carbs to be ingested and used efficiently. The key is in finding out what your optimal carb intake is PRIOR to AP, and then increasing it from there logically.
I have recently started AP (yesterday) and will increase my carbs about 75-100 grams per day for a TOTAL of 225-250 grams.
Many may have assumed being on AP meant they could simply feast on carbohydrates as much as they wanted, without giving it much thought. While I'm NO expert on this product, I will say I don't believe that to be the best approach, IMHO.
Workin
Guest
Guest
YES YES YES YES YES and YES!
JJC
Well-known member
Also from a non-expert's standpoint...
I have been using AP for the past 2/3 weeks and only now am I starting to feel more muscle "fullness". I would not say that I am pumped 24/7 by any means and there is no major increase in vascularity when not training. On the other hand, I felt more of a pump during my last training session and then was able to induce more "soreness" during and after my previous workout two days ago. I am hoping that that will continue tonight and tomorrow when I hit the gym after work today.
I don't expect miracles from AP and I don't think anyone really should. I do like where my progress with AP is going in the meantime.
I've tried PowerFULL and have come to realize that the longer I am off of it, the more I miss being on it. I can't wait to try the new PowerFULL sometime in the future. Similarly, I have hopes for AP. Since alot of products like these are made from natural plant extracts, you have to realize that it may take some time for the supplement to react favorably with YOUR body...not someone elses. What I mean is that what someone might feel in a day, might take me two weeks to feel (case in point). Also, some people may report side-effects that others do not see (I have had no intestinal issues for example).
EZ - I wouldn't write off AP or even USPLabs as an entire company just yet. Give it some time. I don't remember who offered up the possibility that you could be insulin resistant but it was just a thought of what possibly could be happening. Another possibility is that it is just taking time for your body to adjust. I don't really know. Just give it more than 2 days to make any kind of judgment...that's just not really fair. And like Workin said, maybe all people need to do while on AP is to monitor their carb intake closely and adjust accordingly. That could be all that it takes to make a world of difference.
I have been using AP for the past 2/3 weeks and only now am I starting to feel more muscle "fullness". I would not say that I am pumped 24/7 by any means and there is no major increase in vascularity when not training. On the other hand, I felt more of a pump during my last training session and then was able to induce more "soreness" during and after my previous workout two days ago. I am hoping that that will continue tonight and tomorrow when I hit the gym after work today.
I don't expect miracles from AP and I don't think anyone really should. I do like where my progress with AP is going in the meantime.
I've tried PowerFULL and have come to realize that the longer I am off of it, the more I miss being on it. I can't wait to try the new PowerFULL sometime in the future. Similarly, I have hopes for AP. Since alot of products like these are made from natural plant extracts, you have to realize that it may take some time for the supplement to react favorably with YOUR body...not someone elses. What I mean is that what someone might feel in a day, might take me two weeks to feel (case in point). Also, some people may report side-effects that others do not see (I have had no intestinal issues for example).
EZ - I wouldn't write off AP or even USPLabs as an entire company just yet. Give it some time. I don't remember who offered up the possibility that you could be insulin resistant but it was just a thought of what possibly could be happening. Another possibility is that it is just taking time for your body to adjust. I don't really know. Just give it more than 2 days to make any kind of judgment...that's just not really fair. And like Workin said, maybe all people need to do while on AP is to monitor their carb intake closely and adjust accordingly. That could be all that it takes to make a world of difference.
T-Bone
Banned
Yes I totally agree with you. Thats why I have been on a Phase Shift diet for years!. Ap only makes it work better. In other words I can have some extra carbs on my carb ups(which is the only time I take AP) and not worry about gaining fat. Still this doesn't mean go overboard!. No need to worry about high-gi and low-gi BS!. I just make sure I stick to mostly starchy carbs during the carb up. With AP though I can have more carbs and gain strength, and not worry about excessive fat. A lot of people are think AP is a miracle pill so you can eat all the carbs you want all the time!. No this simply isn't the case. I find this diet that I have been using for several years works best for me. Ap only improves the results. You have to follow a specific diet. You can't just say "oh well, I take AP now so I can eat all the carbs I want!". It just doesn't work that way and I would never switch to any other diet because I found what works. I know when I am slacking on my diet, and I know what to do to fix it. With a good detailed diet Ap can work for you, you just can't "wing it".
Guest
Guest
Good advice being thrown around irregardless of Anabolic Pump!
Bolded a very strong statement above.
motiv8er
Well-known member
Well damn, there goes my magical nutritional bullet theory.
bLacKjAck.
Lift Heavy
Wow, great advice guys --- all of you. Good to log on and see a lot of good grounded people helping each other out.
The main thing to remember is to listen to your body. I like the point Workin made about people responding differently to diff. things ---- the thing you have to ALWAYS consider is something that is working for one guy MAY not work for another, and it is possible neither is at fault.
Awesome thought being thrown around here. I LOVE threads like this.
kbp
New member
Something occurred to me. All this talk about insulin sensitivities, etc., in conjunction with responding or not to AP .... since AP is stated to work outside of the insulin pathway, then it seems that one's insulin sensitivity should not be a factor.
Also, some report getting hypo after taking AP, if not enough carbs are consumed timely, but USP has stated that AP should not have an effect on insulin. Hmmm...Or is it that AP causes such a quick intake of glucose into muscle cells, that the stored supply of glycogen in the liver is not sufficient to supply the demand for more glucose, until we consume additional carbs? I have done my best to do some study of the whole insulin, glucose functions within the body and cells, and it just makes you realize how amazing and marvelous all of creation is. All of the interactions and everything happening is extremely complicated.
I am not a doc or scientist....just trying to understand some things and thinking about it.
Here is some info on Hypoglycemia from Wikipedia. I would not think that AP would cause a true hypo reaction, but I really do not know................
>>Hypoglycemia
Although other cells can use other fuels for a while (most prominently fatty acids), neurons depend on glucose as a source of energy in the non-starving human. They do not require insulin to absorb glucose, unlike muscle and adipose tissue, and they have very small internal stores of glycogen. Glycogen stored in liver cells (unlike glycogen stored in muscle cells) can be converted to glucose, and released into the blood, when glucose from digestion is low or absent, and the glycerol backbone in triglycerides can also be used to produce blood glucose.
Exhaustion of these sources can, either temporarily or on a sustained basis, if reducing blood glucose to a sufficiently low level, first and most dramatically manifest itself in impaired functioning of the central nervous system – dizziness, speech problems, even loss of consciousness, are not unknown. This is known as hypoglycemia or, in cases producing unconsciousness, "hypoglycemic coma" (formerly termed "insulin shock" from the most common causative agent). Endogenous causes of insulin excess (such as an insulinoma) are very rare, and the overwhelming majority of hypoglycemia cases are caused by human action (e.g., iatrogenic, caused by medicine) and are usually accidental. There have been a few reported cases of murder, attempted murder, or suicide using insulin overdoses, but most insulin shocks appear to be due to mismanagement of insulin (didn't eat as much as anticipated, or exercised more than expected), or a mistake (e.g., 20 units of insulin instead of 2).
Possible causes of hypoglycemia include:
Oral hypoglycemic agents (e.g., any of the sulfonylureas, or similar drugs, which increase insulin release from beta cells in response to a particular blood glucose level).
External insulin (usually injected subcutaneously).
Ingestion of low-carbohydrate sugar substitutes (animal studies show these can trigger insulin release according to a report in Discover magazine, August 2005, p18).<<
Also, some report getting hypo after taking AP, if not enough carbs are consumed timely, but USP has stated that AP should not have an effect on insulin. Hmmm...Or is it that AP causes such a quick intake of glucose into muscle cells, that the stored supply of glycogen in the liver is not sufficient to supply the demand for more glucose, until we consume additional carbs? I have done my best to do some study of the whole insulin, glucose functions within the body and cells, and it just makes you realize how amazing and marvelous all of creation is. All of the interactions and everything happening is extremely complicated.
I am not a doc or scientist....just trying to understand some things and thinking about it.
Here is some info on Hypoglycemia from Wikipedia. I would not think that AP would cause a true hypo reaction, but I really do not know................
>>Hypoglycemia
Although other cells can use other fuels for a while (most prominently fatty acids), neurons depend on glucose as a source of energy in the non-starving human. They do not require insulin to absorb glucose, unlike muscle and adipose tissue, and they have very small internal stores of glycogen. Glycogen stored in liver cells (unlike glycogen stored in muscle cells) can be converted to glucose, and released into the blood, when glucose from digestion is low or absent, and the glycerol backbone in triglycerides can also be used to produce blood glucose.
Exhaustion of these sources can, either temporarily or on a sustained basis, if reducing blood glucose to a sufficiently low level, first and most dramatically manifest itself in impaired functioning of the central nervous system – dizziness, speech problems, even loss of consciousness, are not unknown. This is known as hypoglycemia or, in cases producing unconsciousness, "hypoglycemic coma" (formerly termed "insulin shock" from the most common causative agent). Endogenous causes of insulin excess (such as an insulinoma) are very rare, and the overwhelming majority of hypoglycemia cases are caused by human action (e.g., iatrogenic, caused by medicine) and are usually accidental. There have been a few reported cases of murder, attempted murder, or suicide using insulin overdoses, but most insulin shocks appear to be due to mismanagement of insulin (didn't eat as much as anticipated, or exercised more than expected), or a mistake (e.g., 20 units of insulin instead of 2).
Possible causes of hypoglycemia include:
Oral hypoglycemic agents (e.g., any of the sulfonylureas, or similar drugs, which increase insulin release from beta cells in response to a particular blood glucose level).
External insulin (usually injected subcutaneously).
Ingestion of low-carbohydrate sugar substitutes (animal studies show these can trigger insulin release according to a report in Discover magazine, August 2005, p18).<<
Guest
Guest
Insulin activates GLUT4
AP activates GLUT4
Insulin does not make you hypoglycemic unless glucose enters the cell out of systemic blood circulation.
By increasing GLUT4 you increase insulin sensitivity so some users will need more time on AP than others to feel the effect. In some users GLUT4 may be therapuetic first before becomming anabolic which is wanted.
T-Bone
Banned
So are you saying I should try 2 Ap next time I have my carb up before meals?. I guess I'll have to try that.
motiv8er
Well-known member
Also T-Bone, how is your excercise/ sickness recovery coming? For a person who has been actively dormant; some cardio may really help you increase AP's effectiveness. I might even hold off using it for a couple of weeks until you can eat how you should for training. You are just getting back on your feet again... literally.
T-Bone
Banned
Yes true. I am feeling much better today though. I started back in the gym on Monday with a So-so workout, but today I'm feeling great. I think I will start up the cardio again also Tuesday. Not tommorow or anything, just because I'm lazy and well...thats it I'm lazy. I'm starting Cardio back again on Tuesday. Basically its been a so-so kind of week, but I feel Greeeat today!.
bLacKjAck.
Lift Heavy
Good Point!
kbp
New member
I understand actions above. Don't understand method of actions of below quote, but like I said, it's all very complicated...at least to us lay people.
USPLabs said:
emiliozapata
Active member
some users may not be seeing the proposed effects due to tannic acids known action to destroy and thereby deplete digestive enzymes, thus negating macronutrient intakes. Some users may want to take mega doses of digestive enzymes concurrent with their ap dosage. it is also apparently a good idea to supplement with iron while on this as tannic acid can bind up iron resulting in anemia
Guest
Guest
You are way off base. Please post evidence to the fact that AP will destroy digestive enzymes and deplete iron. You smell fishy.
I'm not sure you can even destroy digestive enzymes in general.
Guest
Guest
quoted from an AM member
"OK sorry guys for taking so long to update. I have been on spring break for the last while---we all know how that is. I did start taking my anabolic pump last week. It is freaking amazing! I can honestly say that it is the best product I have ever taken in my life! Last week I was working out in the mornings; super tired; under nourirshed; dehydrated; and I was still experiencing unbelievable pumps! Also as I was on spring break, I was eating a crap load of fast food and pizza. The scale said I wa at 248lbs!!!!, but I was actually looking leaner in the mirror!!! really strange. I dont really understand how a natural product could do this for me, but hey who really cares! Man my appetite is also through the roof! Last night for supper I ate 4 pieces of lasagna, 4 chicken breasts, an orange, an apple, and a protiene shake! and then..... only 2 hours later I ate two twelve in subs from blimpie!!! and when I woke up in the morning I was once again, you guessed it, starving! well to sum it up this product is absolutley superb. I havetn noticed a real increase in strength yet, but I feel great! I feel pumped all day long, and I have this funny, good, tingly feeling in my forearms all day! I am really looking forward to the rest of this cycle process!!"
He proceeds to say:
"OK so today was another amazing day on anabolic pump. I cannot tell you enough how great this stuff is. The pumps were just absolutely intense today! I have really began to noctice how hot this stuff makes you! Has anyone else noticed this? I like get red I am so hot. Its so good! I still cannot seem to get ehough food though! No matter how much food I eat, It just never feels like enough. I was also thinking to myself today, "self, I bet anabolic pump would work really well with IGF-1". Well I have never taken IGF-1 before but from what I read about both anabolic pump and IGF-1, I think that they would work very well together. You would literally be force feeding the growth of new muscle fibers! I think that it would be amazing. In fact, I think that it would be so amazing that I am seriousely contemplating running a cycle of igf-1 with anabolic pump this summer, once I have little more cash flow. Anyway though, just a thought. Please tell me if I am retarded for thinking it."
His first week thoughts:
"ok, so today was the end of my first "actual" week on anabolic pump. I must say that it has been a really good experience for me so far. I have begun to see some strength gains. yesterday I curled the 60's 14 times, last week I could only do it 10! Also today, after I had finished my 1.5 hour tri workout, I did a little bench press. I put up 3 plates a side 4 times, this really isnt that big of a deal but it was nice after already having done a crap load of tris and about 4 sets of bench! This product is really good, I just hope it continues to get even better! Also, I am still getting leaner, even though I am eating more!"
"OK sorry guys for taking so long to update. I have been on spring break for the last while---we all know how that is. I did start taking my anabolic pump last week. It is freaking amazing! I can honestly say that it is the best product I have ever taken in my life! Last week I was working out in the mornings; super tired; under nourirshed; dehydrated; and I was still experiencing unbelievable pumps! Also as I was on spring break, I was eating a crap load of fast food and pizza. The scale said I wa at 248lbs!!!!, but I was actually looking leaner in the mirror!!! really strange. I dont really understand how a natural product could do this for me, but hey who really cares! Man my appetite is also through the roof! Last night for supper I ate 4 pieces of lasagna, 4 chicken breasts, an orange, an apple, and a protiene shake! and then..... only 2 hours later I ate two twelve in subs from blimpie!!! and when I woke up in the morning I was once again, you guessed it, starving! well to sum it up this product is absolutley superb. I havetn noticed a real increase in strength yet, but I feel great! I feel pumped all day long, and I have this funny, good, tingly feeling in my forearms all day! I am really looking forward to the rest of this cycle process!!"
He proceeds to say:
"OK so today was another amazing day on anabolic pump. I cannot tell you enough how great this stuff is. The pumps were just absolutely intense today! I have really began to noctice how hot this stuff makes you! Has anyone else noticed this? I like get red I am so hot. Its so good! I still cannot seem to get ehough food though! No matter how much food I eat, It just never feels like enough. I was also thinking to myself today, "self, I bet anabolic pump would work really well with IGF-1". Well I have never taken IGF-1 before but from what I read about both anabolic pump and IGF-1, I think that they would work very well together. You would literally be force feeding the growth of new muscle fibers! I think that it would be amazing. In fact, I think that it would be so amazing that I am seriousely contemplating running a cycle of igf-1 with anabolic pump this summer, once I have little more cash flow. Anyway though, just a thought. Please tell me if I am retarded for thinking it."
His first week thoughts:
"ok, so today was the end of my first "actual" week on anabolic pump. I must say that it has been a really good experience for me so far. I have begun to see some strength gains. yesterday I curled the 60's 14 times, last week I could only do it 10! Also today, after I had finished my 1.5 hour tri workout, I did a little bench press. I put up 3 plates a side 4 times, this really isnt that big of a deal but it was nice after already having done a crap load of tris and about 4 sets of bench! This product is really good, I just hope it continues to get even better! Also, I am still getting leaner, even though I am eating more!"
emiliozapata
Active member
However, tannic acid should not be used continuously or in high quantities ad it slows down the absorption of iron and possibly other trace minerals. A study by Afsana K et al entitled Reducing effect of ingesting tannic acid on the absorption of iron, but not of zinc, copper and manganese by rats. published by Bioscience, Biotechnology, and Biochemistry (March 2004) concluded that the usual intake of polyphenols is relatively safe, but that a high intake by supplementation or by dietary habit of tannin affects only the iron level. Tannic acid can also reduce the effectiveness of digestive enzymes.
emiliozapata
Active member
here is more-
. S. DESHPANDE22Author Desh-pande, to whom requests for reprints should be directed, is now affiliated with the Dept of Food Science, 104 Dairy Mfg. Bldg., Univ. of Illinois, Urbana, IL 61801. Author Salunkhe is presently Vice-Chancellor, Mahtma Phule Agricultural Univ., Rahuri 413 722, Maharashtra State, India. D. K. SALUNKHE11Work reported in this note was done at the Dept. of Nutrition & Food Science, Utah State Univ., Logan, UT 84322.1Work reported in this note was done at the Dept. of Nutrition & Food Science, Utah State Univ., Logan, UT 84322.2Author Desh-pande, to whom requests for reprints should be directed, is now affiliated with the Dept of Food Science, 104 Dairy Mfg. Bldg., Univ. of Illinois, Urbana, IL 61801. Author Salunkhe is presently Vice-Chancellor, Mahtma Phule Agricultural Univ., Rahuri 413 722, Maharashtra State, India.
ABSTRACT
Model system interactions between five different legume starches (azuki red bean, split yellow pea, small red bean, bush bean, and California kidney bean), potato starch, amylose, and amylopectin and two phenolic compounds - tannic acid and catechin - were investigated. The amounts of tannic acid and catechin associated with different starches and starch fractions at room temperature (21°C) ranged, respectively, from 261-652 and 123-586 Mg catechin equivalents/100 mg starch. Heating the systems at 95°C for 30 min decreased the quantities of tannic acid and catechin associated with different starches (151-417 and 147-378 μg catechin equivalents/100 mg starch of tannic acid and catechin, respectively). Bound tannic acid and catechin decreased the in vitro digestibility of the starches.
. S. DESHPANDE22Author Desh-pande, to whom requests for reprints should be directed, is now affiliated with the Dept of Food Science, 104 Dairy Mfg. Bldg., Univ. of Illinois, Urbana, IL 61801. Author Salunkhe is presently Vice-Chancellor, Mahtma Phule Agricultural Univ., Rahuri 413 722, Maharashtra State, India. D. K. SALUNKHE11Work reported in this note was done at the Dept. of Nutrition & Food Science, Utah State Univ., Logan, UT 84322.1Work reported in this note was done at the Dept. of Nutrition & Food Science, Utah State Univ., Logan, UT 84322.2Author Desh-pande, to whom requests for reprints should be directed, is now affiliated with the Dept of Food Science, 104 Dairy Mfg. Bldg., Univ. of Illinois, Urbana, IL 61801. Author Salunkhe is presently Vice-Chancellor, Mahtma Phule Agricultural Univ., Rahuri 413 722, Maharashtra State, India.
ABSTRACT
Model system interactions between five different legume starches (azuki red bean, split yellow pea, small red bean, bush bean, and California kidney bean), potato starch, amylose, and amylopectin and two phenolic compounds - tannic acid and catechin - were investigated. The amounts of tannic acid and catechin associated with different starches and starch fractions at room temperature (21°C) ranged, respectively, from 261-652 and 123-586 Mg catechin equivalents/100 mg starch. Heating the systems at 95°C for 30 min decreased the quantities of tannic acid and catechin associated with different starches (151-417 and 147-378 μg catechin equivalents/100 mg starch of tannic acid and catechin, respectively). Bound tannic acid and catechin decreased the in vitro digestibility of the starches.
emiliozapata
Active member
anyone wondering why AP gives gastro upset- here is your answer- and USP dont call me shady or suspect just cause i am attempting to contribute towards the discussion of your product, maybe you should thank me and then reformulate your product with a hefty dose of digestive enzymes and some iron
emiliozapata
Active member
I could go on all day-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Research Article
ANIMALS
Effect of tannic acid on rumen degradation and intestinal digestion of treated soya bean meals in sheep
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G. HERVÁS a1 c1 , P. FRUTOS a1 , E. SERRANO a1 , A. R. MANTECÓN a1 and F. J. GIRÁLDEZ a1
a1 Estación Agrícola Experimental, CSIC, Apdo 788, 24080-León, Spain
Abstract
The current experiment was conducted to study the effect of different doses of tannic acid, a hydrolysable tannin, on ruminal degradation and post-ruminal digestion of treated soya bean meals (SBM) in sheep. Samples of SBM were prepared by spraying 100 g SBM with 100 ml distilled water containing 0, 1, 5, 10, 15 or 25 g of commercial tannic acid (S0, STA1, STA2, STA3, STA4 and STA5, respectively). Three ruminally cannulated ewes, that had never consumed tannic acid previously, were used to determine in situ degradability of tannic acid-treated SBM. Intestinal digestibility of protein remaining after 16 h rumen incubation was estimated in vitro. Extent of rumen degradation of SBMs was significantly (P < 0·05) affected by the tannic acid treatment. All doses of tannic acid used in this experiment, even the lowest one (STA1), significantly decreased the extent of N degradation but only doses higher than that used to treat STA3 reduced the extent of DM degradation. This reduction in the extent of DM and N degradation was mainly due to a marked decrease in the immediately degradable fraction (a), which was observed in all treated SBM, and to a lower rate of degradation (c), observed in meals STA3, STA4 and STA5. Intestinal digestion of the non-degraded protein was decreased (P < 0·05) by treatment with the two highest doses of tannic acid (those used to treat meals STA4 and STA5). It was therefore concluded that tannic acid can exert a negative effect both on rumen degradation and on intestinal digestion of SBM, this effect being clearly dependent on the dose used to treat the SBM.
(Received February 24 2000)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Research Article
ANIMALS
Effect of tannic acid on rumen degradation and intestinal digestion of treated soya bean meals in sheep
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G. HERVÁS a1 c1 , P. FRUTOS a1 , E. SERRANO a1 , A. R. MANTECÓN a1 and F. J. GIRÁLDEZ a1
a1 Estación Agrícola Experimental, CSIC, Apdo 788, 24080-León, Spain
Abstract
The current experiment was conducted to study the effect of different doses of tannic acid, a hydrolysable tannin, on ruminal degradation and post-ruminal digestion of treated soya bean meals (SBM) in sheep. Samples of SBM were prepared by spraying 100 g SBM with 100 ml distilled water containing 0, 1, 5, 10, 15 or 25 g of commercial tannic acid (S0, STA1, STA2, STA3, STA4 and STA5, respectively). Three ruminally cannulated ewes, that had never consumed tannic acid previously, were used to determine in situ degradability of tannic acid-treated SBM. Intestinal digestibility of protein remaining after 16 h rumen incubation was estimated in vitro. Extent of rumen degradation of SBMs was significantly (P < 0·05) affected by the tannic acid treatment. All doses of tannic acid used in this experiment, even the lowest one (STA1), significantly decreased the extent of N degradation but only doses higher than that used to treat STA3 reduced the extent of DM degradation. This reduction in the extent of DM and N degradation was mainly due to a marked decrease in the immediately degradable fraction (a), which was observed in all treated SBM, and to a lower rate of degradation (c), observed in meals STA3, STA4 and STA5. Intestinal digestion of the non-degraded protein was decreased (P < 0·05) by treatment with the two highest doses of tannic acid (those used to treat meals STA4 and STA5). It was therefore concluded that tannic acid can exert a negative effect both on rumen degradation and on intestinal digestion of SBM, this effect being clearly dependent on the dose used to treat the SBM.
(Received February 24 2000)
Guest
Guest
We are using a special banaba extract not commercial tannic acid..Huge Huge difference.
Tannic acid is a type of tannins just like green tea is has tannins.
emiliozapata
Active member
ok, i accept that rebutal, let me ask then, why did most of the studies you posted to support your MOA involve tannic acid as the studied agent.
i am honestly not trying to be an ass, just looking for answers, i am now 1 full week into the AP with no discernable results, which is disappointing to me, mainly because of the high hopes i had for the product, it being something that could be used without cycle or PCT concerns etc. the same reason my hopes for Ebol were so high
i am honestly not trying to be an ass, just looking for answers, i am now 1 full week into the AP with no discernable results, which is disappointing to me, mainly because of the high hopes i had for the product, it being something that could be used without cycle or PCT concerns etc. the same reason my hopes for Ebol were so high
Mulletsoldier
Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
Only one of the studies provided used Tannic Acid as the main constituent. The other two focused on Berberine, an alkaloid of the Chinese Phellodendron.
emiliozapata
Active member
OK, on a completely different note, what does USP think of ayurvedic apaptogenic herbs such as ashwaganda, and would USP ever develop a product similar the Ebol , by thermolife, putting your unique twists on it. Develop a truely anabolic herbal, working multiple pathways.?
Guest
Guest
Give AP 3 weeks...
The Tannic acid research was posted to prove that GLUT4 uptake can happen specific to skeletal muscle. The Tannins complex was developed by research firm out of India that will soon pitch the compound to the pharmacuectical world(2 years after more rat research is done).
Dagron
Member
As an insulin sensitive endo, AP started working for me on the very first dose. The pump I had on day 3 (arms day) with just 120 grams of carbs in my system all day rivaled anything that I had felt on three times as many carbs as well as with NO products. The only downside to it was that my hunger went off the chart on day 4 and I ate more than I should have... a lot more.
T-Bone
Banned
Today I took 2 AP and waited at least 40 minutes before eating. No hypo side effects at all. So far today though I have had about 5 AP caps. I have noticed a difference in the effects this time. Today I feel really calm and almost no gas at all from my carb up, which I usually get pretty bad. No bloat at all. Last time I used AP I cut down on bloat and gas, but this time its almost completely gone, as in no gas or bloat at all. Strange. Also I am wondering why the bottles say 90+ Caps?. How could you possibly not lose money that way, unless some of the caps don't have the same amount as others?. Food cost would be way up there that way. You would just lose too much money. I know I worked in foodservice before. Everything must be weighed and measured consistantly. If not you lose money, plain and simple. Even if its just a little bit extra here and there, it all adds up and you will lose a lot of money!!. Please explain.
emiliozapata
Active member
t bone, i plan on using ap and taking readings with a blood glucometer when i return home, maybe even giving myself a glucose tolerance test with and without, this will be the only way to determine if AP can induce hypoglycemia.
T-Bone
Banned
Ok sounds good. I'll be watching for posts about it. The way I respond to it seems to be much different that others, but like I said in other posts it seems to help eliminate my symptoms of IBS when I eat carbs. Also I can take 2 and wait 40 minutes on an empty stomach before eating, and I could have waited longer because I didn't get any hypo sides or anything like that. I just wanted to eat though because it was after I first awoke and after my first dump of the day.
Vipersg123
Active member
I wish I could take AP but I cannot because for some reason after taking it for a month straight I gained an intolerance for it and if I dose 1 pill I will begin to vomit blood... it's not very pretty and i've never been so miserable when taking this product.
T-Bone
Banned
Steveoph
NutraPlanet NinjaMonkey Rep
Any word on how the blood tests went? Definitely an interesting discussion going on here. I'll probably end up buying some AP if it gets released in bulk if I get a good vibe in general from it, and seems to be quite upbeat.
m4gnum
Member
Today was the end of my first week of AP. I am up 5 pounds with no noticeable strength or recovery improvements, but I finished a superdrol cycle 5 weeks ago, so with that considered, AP is working pretty well.
T-Bone: I'm not sure about the 90+ caps thing, but if you think about it, the volume of sales for AP is probably far less than for most food items, so a slight variation in quantity probably wouldn't make much difference.
T-Bone: I'm not sure about the 90+ caps thing, but if you think about it, the volume of sales for AP is probably far less than for most food items, so a slight variation in quantity probably wouldn't make much difference.
kbp
New member
Man....that's some serious s..t going on there. Have heard quite a few complaints of some intestinal distress, including myself, but that definitely takes the cake. I wish we had a trained medical scientist on this thread that could explain how this might be happening. Only thing I can think of for the blood is an ulcer, and maybe the AP aggravates it. You might need to check this with a doctor.
kbp
New member
Or...maybe the bulk price of berberine, banaba extract, and Cissus is not nearly as much as a bottle of AP?