8-10 Week Shred

[Hyde]

Alright, Last picture day is coming up. Any suggestions for peaking on picture day 8/30? I am not supposed to flex in the photos but I usually fast the day before and of and try to get a good pump beforehand then tighten the abs a bit. I read about water loading but not sure I can do it successfully. Just trying to make abs pop in the final photo as much as possible. I will shave my chest fully and was considering doing a spray tan but thats all I have so far.

That’s all you can do besides manipulate water, electrolytes, and glycogen. And if you don’t feel comfortable manipulating water, you definitely shouldn’t mess with electrolytes much.

Eating some carbs the evening prior that do not bloat your gut can help keep muscles more full, but you generally want absolutely minimal water and no salt (because it will retain any water). Dates or dried apricots are fairly concentrated sugar that have a high amount of potassium (which will help shed water, while sodium helps retain it).

So fasting the day prior besides some of those dried fruits and maybe 20-32oz water total could produce a bit better look. But this is really trivial, and most important that your stomach isn’t all bloated and you didn’t consume sodium. If you need more water because you can’t tolerate the dry fast, that’s okay - don’t harm your health for a tiny aesthetic tweak. The wife and I do dry fast for watercuts for lifting competition weighins; you can feel really bad, high pulse, blood gets thick, headaches, obviously no energy. Keeping just water in normally will prevent a lot of that while still letting your stomach flatten out. Distilled water will flush more electrolytes out.

 

[Dustin07]

I personally wouldn't do situps, when I was maintaining that 10% or less bf, a big core workout day would make my abs look washed and bloated/fat for a couple days lol. @MrKleen73 has done a lot of stage prep he might have good advice.

 

[Dustin07]

Eating some carbs the evening prior that do not bloat your gut can help keep muscles more full, but you generally want absolutely minimal water and no salt (because it will retain any water). Dates or dried apricots are fairly concentrated sugar that have a high amount of potassium (which will help shed water, while sodium helps retain it).

thats what I was thinking, but I've never needed to time it so wasn't sure how I would to be honest. I just know a day or two of carbs after being fully leaned out looks awesome. for about a day or two until you start to spill over lol

 

[Hyde]

thats what I was thinking, but I've never needed to time it so wasn't sure how I would to be honest. I just know a day or two of carbs after being fully leaned out looks awesome. for about a day or two until you start to spill over lol

Yeah that’s why I said basically the only thing he eats. Need to keep food volume low and make sure it doesn’t bloat you. So if he doesn’t have time to see his personal response prior it is risky.

The one guarantee is to avoid food, salt, and lower water intake.

 

[jtgoshaff]

Yeah that’s why I said basically the only thing he eats. Need to keep food volume low and make sure it doesn’t bloat you. So if he doesn’t have time to see his personal response prior it is risky.

The one guarantee is to avoid food, salt, and lower water intake.

I can avoid food, salt and lower water. I have done up to 4-day water fasts but never limited water intake during fasting.

I think I am going to try to do a test run this weekend. So tomorrow start fast and limit water intake to 32oz, Saturday no food and maybe just one bottle of water if needed, then eat some dried apricots that evening and then take photos in the morning.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan?

 

[Dustin07]

I'm not experienced in dry fasts or cutting water so I'd defer to Hyde again on that. When I am trying to flush sodium/puffiness I tend to double my water intake, get some cardio in, a sauna sweat session etc and it will flush a few lbs. 30-36hrs of fasting for me is far more impactful than 20. When I do big fasts (like 60hrs+) I sometimes might feel actually like my skin is a little looser for a day but it tightens up fast. so I think you experiementing tomorrow, 10 days out, gives you a good chance to play with it and see if it has a benefit for your goal.

 

[Hyde]

I can avoid food, salt and lower water. I have done up to 4-day water fasts but never limited water intake during fasting.

I think I am going to try to do a test run this weekend. So tomorrow start fast and limit water intake to 32oz, Saturday no food and maybe just one bottle of water if needed, then eat some dried apricots that evening and then take photos in the morning.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan?

NO

Do not limit water very low like that for 2 days in a row.

That is more extreme than a dry fast for one day - the longer you are dehydrated, the more you are stressing the body. Organs working harder, cortisol increasing, etc. You will just come out looking flat too.

One day, either just a pint or two of water (ideally distilled) or also with some dried apricots. Keep it simple and brief.

Another thing to consider is the idea of a test run - if you do this, the body will retain more water the next time you cut out water for about a month. Watercuts done too close never dry out as well the second time. The body remembers and tries to offset to prevent dehydration.

 

[jtgoshaff]

NO

Do not limit water very low like that for 2 days in a row.

That is more extreme than a dry fast for one day - the longer you are dehydrated, the more you are stressing the body. Organs working harder, cortisol increasing, etc. You will just come out looking flat too.

One day, either just a pint or two of water (ideally distilled) or also with some dried apricots. Keep it simple and brief.

Another thing to consider is the idea of a test run - if you do this, the body will retain more water the next time you cut out water for about a month. Watercuts done too close never dry out as well the second time. The body remembers and tries to offset to prevent dehydration.

OK, perhaps I skip the test run and just stick to the plan on limiting carbs and calories before next week. I will follow through with your plan of limiting water the day prior to pictures. I will also try out the distilled water since that would help as well. Appreciate the help and recommendations guys.

 

[MrKleen73]

Alright, Last picture day is coming up. Any suggestions for peaking on picture day 8/30? I am not supposed to flex in the photos but I usually fast the day before and of and try to get a good pump beforehand then tighten the abs a bit. I read about water loading but not sure I can do it successfully. Just trying to make abs pop in the final photo as much as possible. I will shave my chest fully and was considering doing a spray tan but thats all I have so far.

Outside of depleting yourself and drinking more water the week of, then cutting water the afternoon before and consuming 150-200g of easily digested carbs the night before, I wouldn't risk it much. That could make you pee out a decent bit of water, the muscles will get flatter, but you refill them the night before after cutting water mid-day / afternoon which will pull some more of the subcutaneous water into the muscles and fill them up. Since you don't really have time to test how you fill up, I wouldn't push more than 200g carbs though to be safe. Other than that, tan or apply a fake tan, shave, the usual tricks. Practice controlling you lower abs by pulling the belly button back closer to the spine, cinching in your abdominal wall without flexing the abs. The muscle that acts as the girdle for your waist is inside behind your abs. Controlling it will allow you to really get the waist to look smaller while not looking like you are flexing.

 

[MrKleen73]

Oh I hadn't even read @Hyde's response, pretty close in results probably either way. The premise is basically the same just a varying method. A more aggressive approach would be the depletion I suggested alongside the whole day dry fast, would likely get you even more dry.

 

[jtgoshaff]

Alright so wanted to give an update. Weighed in at 191 this morning, Down from 205-207 8 weeks ago. I am shooting for final weigh in to be under 190 and I will be happy. This should be easily doable with the water and dry fast.

So my plan as of today is to have a protein shake later and then fast tomorrow and do a dry fast for Friday. Friday evening, I will eat some dried apricots and then workout with light weights to get a pump before I take pictures on Saturday.

I saved a scoop of some pump preworkout and I have some nitric oxide booster caps. I assume this all would assist on picture day?

Working on pulling the abs in without flexing and I think I am getting what you are talking about @MrKleen73 .

Pictures are not do until Sunday so I can take some on Saturday and eat some more carbs if I look flat or not as defined and retake later in the day or the following day if needed. Let me know if you guys think I should do anything differently.

 

[MrKleen73]

if you want an easy way to isolate that muscle that pulls the stomach in you can lie on your back and do it so you aren't fighting gravity, then try it, you will get a tighter contraction that will help with the mind muscle connection once standing.

 

[jtgoshaff]

Finished the competition. I am happy where I ended here. 189.4 and 4 inches off the waist from the beginning. Pictures were taken Saturday and I am still sitting at 190 this morning. I can see my abs once I flex but I still want them to be more defined, so it looks like I still need to cut another 15-20lbs to get where I want to be.

 

[Dustin07]

congrats! great progress there, and definitely seeing some serious gains made here!!!

 

[MrKleen73]

Looking good man, so what did you end up doing to peak for the pics? Explain the process you went with, and were you happy with their effect?

 

[jtgoshaff]

Looking good man, so what did you end up doing to peak for the pics? Explain the process you went with, and were you happy with their effect?

I fasted day before but drank my normal amount of water. The following day, I tried the dry fast and for the most part did not have any water except some distilled water with my daily vitamins. That evening I had some of the dried apricots and some other dried fruits. Along with some pizza crust, family was having pizza and it was very hard to skip out so I ate the crust from one of my kids pizzas. I was a bit worried that was going to add some water weight or affect the outcome of the pictures, but I don't believe it made too much of a difference. On picture day, I went to the gym and did a variety of exercises to get a pump but was really fatigued so did not really do that much.

I feel like I didn't get the pump I was expecting and the muscles to pop as much as I wanted but I am also not as lean as I could be so that makes sense. I think to achieve the look I want to have, I need to lose a bit more weight. I also have a fair amount of loose skin from being overweight, so I am sure plays into the picture as well. I think I am going to try to lose a bit more weight and see how things are looking at 180 or so.

I have not been at this weight since high school 2007 and have a lot more muscle than back then so I am happy with the progress I have made so far.

 

[MrKleen73]

Well you ended up looking very solid, and you can definitely see your abs. I think you needed a more substantial carb load than just the apricots, and more starches and a lil salt to be able to get a pump. You were understandably erring on the side of caution, but when you do something aggressive like a water cut/fast, you also need to be aggressive on the carb up. Once you have cut water like that, you can not get watery from adding carbs without adding water. Simply put, the carbs pull 3-4 grams of water into the muscle per gram of carbohydrate, so what would have happened is that the muscles would have filled up with any subcutaneous water that was left in the system, and a tiny bit of sodium to help get the water into the muscle would have been helpful.

That being said, you did a great job and should be proud of your results. When is the next one starting, and do they do them regularly? I might consider something like this to help motivate me here pretty soon.

 

[Dustin07]

Well you ended up looking very solid, and you can definitely see your abs. I think you needed a more substantial carb load than just the apricots, and more starches and a lil salt to be able to get a pump. You were understandably erring on the side of caution, but when you do something aggressive like a water cut/fast, you also need to be aggressive on the carb up. Once you have cut water like that, you can not get watery from adding carbs without adding water. Simply put, the carbs pull 3-4 grams of water into the muscle per gram of carbohydrate, so what would have happened is that the muscles would have filled up with any subcutaneous water that was left in the system, and a tiny bit of sodium to help get the water into the muscle would have been helpful.

so I was going to ask you this exact question here. if he had gone with the exact approach he did, but maybe a day earlier, so that he could have fully carb loaded 12-24hrs before the photos, do you think that would have been a net positive? I feel like when I am fully leaned out, about 10lbs lighter, and finish a fast, obviously I am flatter, but if I fully carb load, then for about a day or 2 I'm at peak level where I still look as lean, but more filled out. maybe leaner since I'm more bulgy, but of course that only works for a couple days before it starts to spill over and definition fades.

 

[jtgoshaff]

Well you ended up looking very solid, and you can definitely see your abs. I think you needed a more substantial carb load than just the apricots, and more starches and a lil salt to be able to get a pump. You were understandably erring on the side of caution, but when you do something aggressive like a water cut/fast, you also need to be aggressive on the carb up. Once you have cut water like that, you can not get watery from adding carbs without adding water. Simply put, the carbs pull 3-4 grams of water into the muscle per gram of carbohydrate, so what would have happened is that the muscles would have filled up with any subcutaneous water that was left in the system, and a tiny bit of sodium to help get the water into the muscle would have been helpful.

That being said, you did a great job and should be proud of your results. When is the next one starting, and do they do them regularly? I might consider something like this to help motivate me here pretty soon.

Yes they do these bootcamps a few times a year. At least 2 or 3 each year. This is like the 6th or 7th one I have done. There will probably be a month off while the voting and submissions get reviewed and then I imagine they will do a fall one. You can sign up at https://www.buckedupbootcamp .com/ once the next one opens. They have a facebook group also and do a bunch of giveaways.

You have to purchase one full size supplement to be eligible for the top prizes.

 

[MrKleen73]

so I was going to ask you this exact question here. if he had gone with the exact approach he did, but maybe a day earlier, so that he could have fully carb loaded 12-24hrs before the photos, do you think that would have been a net positive? I feel like when I am fully leaned out, about 10lbs lighter, and finish a fast, obviously I am flatter, but if I fully carb load, then for about a day or 2 I'm at peak level where I still look as lean, but more filled out. maybe leaner since I'm more bulgy, but of course that only works for a couple days before it starts to spill over and definition fades.

I don't really even think he needed to start a day earlier, just a more aggressive loading phase the night of. You can easily knock down 200-300g of carbs in 3-4 hours and do a god job of filling out, while not really gaining much weight, and not having to worry about spill over because there is no water for the body to spill over with. Certainly the same 300g could be eaten throughout the day while on the dry fast but without water it would be a day of choking things down rather than an evening of doing so.

In the end regardless of if you spread the intake around over an evening or a couple of days, if you deplete glycogen, lower excess water in the body and then refeed the carbs with hours of time for them to get into the muscle the process will work. In all honestly, if he had just had one whole peice of pizza with the fruits his pump would have likely been far superior to what he had the day of.

In the end though, I would not choose fruits as my main source of carbs for a carb load to refill muscle glycogen stores. It will just do an inferior job compared to starches / complex carbohydrates for the specific purpose. I think white rice is a big winner for this purpose, it is super easy to digest, does not cause bloat, and very easily measured down to the gram.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yes they do these bootcamps a few times a year. At least 2 or 3 each year. This is like the 6th or 7th one I have done. There will probably be a month off while the voting and submissions get reviewed and then I imagine they will do a fall one. You can sign up at https://www.buckedupbootcamp .com/ once the next one opens. They have a facebook group also and do a bunch of giveaways.

You have to purchase one full size supplement to be eligible for the top prizes.

I see on the page it says you get an 8 week program, do you have to follow their programming to be involved? I wish they had one starting soon, but I don't see one. Looks like the voting for this one ends the 9th, so perhaps they will start one shortly after?

 

[Dustin07]

In the end though, I would not choose fruits as my main source of carbs for a carb load to refill muscle glycogen stores. It will just do an inferior job compared to starches / complex carbohydrates for the specific purpose. I think white rice is a big winner for this purpose, it is super easy to digest, does not cause bloat, and very easily measured down to the gram.

the whole time I was reading your response I was going "please be rice, please be rice, please be rice... maybe potato, but please be jasmine rice".

I see on the page it says you get an 8 week program, do you have to follow their programming to be involved? I wish they had one starting soon, but I don't see one. Looks like the voting for this one ends the 9th, so perhaps they will start one shortly after?

are you thinking about joining? I bet you'd crush it right now with the adjustments to training you've been making.

 

[MrKleen73]

the whole time I was reading your response I was going "please be rice, please be rice, please be rice... maybe potato, but please be jasmine rice".



are you thinking about joining? I bet you'd crush it right now with the adjustments to training you've been making.

Yes Sir, I am definitely considering it. I need something to lock me in like that and my competitive spirit would do the trick there for sure. I signed up to be notified when the next one is starting. So I should get an email about it.

 

[Dustin07]

Yes Sir, I am definitely considering it. I need something to lock me in like that and my competitive spirit would do the trick there for sure. I signed up to be notified when the next one is starting. So I should get an email about it.

hell yeah!!