Slicin' and Dicin'

[Dustin07]

Warmup
Bike - 10 min

Leg curls
15 x 120, 180

Leg press
10 x 90
5 x 230
3 x 320
1 x 410
2 x 8 x 500

Leg ext
15 x 85, 165, 165

BB RDL
8 x 225, 275

Adductor machine
20 x 85
15 x 130, 175

H/S weighted crunch
15 x +25, +35, +45, +55
(Ouch!)



Notes
Landed yesterday and a whopping 198lbs. My main "cheat" was tortilla chips and most of my liquids were electrolytes so definitely holding some extra. Woke up this morning already down 2lbs to 196. So we will see what life looks like by tomorrow because I'd think most of my vacation bloat would be gone and what's left is the calories.

My abs are hating the targeted work.

 

[Hyde]

Flying can cause extra water retention for a day or two - people mess up their weightcuts sometimes because they don’t account for comps they have to fly to. I don’t know the science, but it’s a thing that’s bitten us even.

 

[Dustin07]

Flying can cause extra water retention for a day or two - people mess up their weightcuts sometimes because they don’t account for comps they have to fly to. I don’t know the science, but it’s a thing that’s bitten us even.

Yeah no doubt I went from a polar extreme to another one, lol. After one day in AZ I felt normal, the puffiness from flying etc had already gone away and I stayed very hydrated so a 10lb bounce sure seemed high but it's all good. I didn't eat 35,000 extra calories in five days (although I definitely could)

 

[Dustin07]

PM session

Incline LISS - 30 min
To 10incline/3mph

I actually look forward to these afternoon cardios. Sorta a nice chance to zone out, not strain, and catch up on learning something.

 

[Dustin07]

Warmup
Bike - 20 min

Deads - DOH
10 x 135
5 x 225
3 x 275
2 x 315
5 x 335

pull-ups
2 x 15
(No kipping)

Lat pulldowns
8 x 190, 205

Hammer strength weighted crunches
15 x +35lbs
(Way too painful in the lowest area of abs )

Hanging leg raises (audible)
2 x 15


Seated cable rows
2 x 15 x 130

Finisher
Treadmill flat LISS - 20 min


Notes
My Gemini chat crashed so I saved what I could and fed it to Claude which has basically agreed with Gemini. I tried to get Claude to make adjustments and other suggestions but all in all it likes the Gemini approach so we will see.

Somehow forgot my trainers today so I only had my flats. Good for deads, bad for cardio. So tonight I might mix my cardio up a bit rather than trashing my feet on high incline treadmill.

Damn, also forgot my dip belt so subbed weighted pull ups for two good sets and some lat pull downs

 

[Hyde]

Why DOH for deads? Intentionally deloading them & just taking the free grip work?

 

[Dustin07]

postWO contemplation:

a. If I do a most muscular pose in the mirror I can hide the fact that the lower abs haven't come in yet and make it look like I have a decent set using just the 4 pack

b. todays ab work was crazy painful in that region below the belly button pushing towards or maybe under beltline. I'm going to operate as though I didn't actually tear anything and just haven't targeted abs in a long time (except when I identified a glaring weakness there in squats last year)

c. doing my pre-deadlift routine with an empty barbell of rows, RDL's, power cleans, and toe touches I got crazy shakey like I was low blood sugar (which I was fasted), had me rethinking whether or not I can maintain this PSMF 16:8 protocol. but once I got into the thick of the pulls I forgot about it and finished out pretty A-OK. in fact I think I had much more in me if I had the time or if my electronic overlord wanted me from me.

Why DOH for deads? Intentionally deloading them & just taking the free grip work?

Just grip work. I chalked up my thumbs for this as well which helped a lot on hook grip. For years I have switched to switch grip at about 275 when working up to 400+ thinking that it's a smart way to prepare my bicep, shoulder, even pecs for the change in position and strain on the pull. and since AI protocol is currently calling out numbers that I can pull DOH with significant grip effort, it seemed like it wouldn't harm anything. I probably could have yanked 10 reps there today, but had I gone to switch grip it definitely would have been significantly easier. so just.... adding a different stimulus on the off chance that I someday decide doh is for some reason my perpetual preference.


right now though I'd rather just be going switch. I have felt it straing my bicep many times at heavier weights (like 425+) so I always have that lurking fear in my head.....

I have no idea what my max doh vs switch would be, not sure I ever tried doh over like 385 without straps.

 

[Dustin07]

PM session

Bike - 20 min
Incline LISS - 20 min

Mixed it up a bit to alleviate feet since I'm in my flats today. Gonna hit sauna and call it a week!

Tomorrow building a fence, again.

 

[Hyde]

postWO contemplation:

a. If I do a most muscular pose in the mirror I can hide the fact that the lower abs haven't come in yet and make it look like I have a decent set using just the 4 pack

b. todays ab work was crazy painful in that region below the belly button pushing towards or maybe under beltline. I'm going to operate as though I didn't actually tear anything and just haven't targeted abs in a long time (except when I identified a glaring weakness there in squats last year)

c. doing my pre-deadlift routine with an empty barbell of rows, RDL's, power cleans, and toe touches I got crazy shakey like I was low blood sugar (which I was fasted), had me rethinking whether or not I can maintain this PSMF 16:8 protocol. but once I got into the thick of the pulls I forgot about it and finished out pretty A-OK. in fact I think I had much more in me if I had the time or if my electronic overlord wanted me from me.



Just grip work. I chalked up my thumbs for this as well which helped a lot on hook grip. For years I have switched to switch grip at about 275 when working up to 400+ thinking that it's a smart way to prepare my bicep, shoulder, even pecs for the change in position and strain on the pull. and since AI protocol is currently calling out numbers that I can pull DOH with significant grip effort, it seemed like it wouldn't harm anything. I probably could have yanked 10 reps there today, but had I gone to switch grip it definitely would have been significantly easier. so just.... adding a different stimulus on the off chance that I someday decide doh is for some reason my perpetual preference.


right now though I'd rather just be going switch. I have felt it straing my bicep many times at heavier weights (like 425+) so I always have that lurking fear in my head.....

I have no idea what my max doh vs switch would be, not sure I ever tried doh over like 385 without straps.

So for the record, hookgrip is NOT considered DOH in any matter of grip contest or hand strength, because it’s so much stronger of a grip - often coming up on or exceeding mixed (basically dependent on hand size). Double overhand is specifically with the thumb on the outside, or next to the fingers.

Someone pulling 405 doh is a fairly impressive feat of hand strength, while pulling it hookgrip would be a given for anyone used to hooking (because the thumb acts as a lifting strap).

 

[Dustin07]

So for the record, hookgrip is NOT considered DOH in any matter of grip contest or hand strength, because it’s so much stronger of a grip - often coming up on or exceeding mixed (basically dependent on hand size). Double overhand is specifically with the thumb on the outside, or next to the fingers.

Someone pulling 405 doh is a fairly impressive feat of hand strength, while pulling it hookgrip would be a given for anyone used to hooking (because the thumb acts as a lifting strap).

Gross, new challenge unlocked
I had no idea people differentiated between the two, I've just always known a handful of folks who "couldn't" hook because their thumbs didn't reach.

I definitely feel stronger in switch grip vs doh (obviously) OR hook though, tbh.

Might be interesting to play with though with this new information.

 

[Hyde]

Gross, new challenge unlocked
I had no idea people differentiated between the two, I've just always known a handful of folks who "couldn't" hook because their thumbs didn't reach.

I definitely feel stronger in switch grip vs doh (obviously) OR hook though, tbh.

Might be interesting to play with though with this new information.

Most people you’ll meet in any gym don’t hook, either because they have no idea what it is or they’ve tried it and immediately realize no sissies allowed with it

 

[Resolve10]

Hook grip definitely is not the same as double overhead....

It is completely different and does take some learning and training (and acceptance of pain). There probably still is some transfer to regular grip strength (if I do a ton of hook work other things still can be tougher grip wise later in a workout, but nowhere as much as regular grip trying work), but once accustomed (and as long as my thumbs aren't injured) I pretty much don't fail a lift due to my (hook)grip.

 

[Dustin07]

Most people you’ll meet in any gym don’t hook, either because they have no idea what it is or they’ve tried it and immediately realize no sissies allowed with it

Hook grip definitely is not the same as double overhead....

It is completely different and does take some learning and training (and acceptance of pain). There probably still is some transfer to regular grip strength (if I do a ton of hook work other things still can be tougher grip wise later in a workout, but nowhere as much as regular grip trying work), but once accustomed (and as long as my thumbs aren't injured) I pretty much don't fail a lift due to my (hook)grip.

Makes sense, I still remember how hesitant I was to hook with it being fairly uncomfortable some 13+ years ago, but I have always felt there is something in the mechanics of hook grip that encourage lat engagement, improve form and would add substantial weight to my power cleans (beyond grip capabilities). I remember thinking it probably took me 3 or 4 sessions before it became natural. Hook gripping 335 last week was fine, but there is a thought in the back of my head that wonders if I might just rip the thumb off lol.

 

[Dustin07]

Sunday 3/22

Warmup
Bike - 10 min

Bench
20 x bar
10 x 95
6 x 135
3 x 185
1 x 215
5 x 235, 240, 245

Incline DB
10 x 75, 80

H/S Dips
10 x +180, +230, +230

Notes:
Phone started crashing so that's causing a glitch in my logging / tracking since I usually don't use pen and paper. Spent all day Saturday doing farm stuff, grabbed 15 chicks (10 cornish meat birds, 5 layers), built half my fence basically, I don't even remember what else. Stuck to AI plan of steak and potatoes for dinner.

Sunday after bench, continued fence building. 9 post holes dug and posts concreted in. hauled, stacked, and chopped firewood, relocated some large rose bushes for my wife. Slept hard.

Today is fasting / cardio day. Might have to hit the phone store as well...

 

[Hyde]

So why are you letting AI tell you what to eat again?

 

[Dustin07]

So why are you letting AI tell you what to eat again?

Its been an interesting experiement to see if it would come up with any novel ideas, if it would simply parrot what I say/suggest, or if it would create bad ideas. When I switched from Gemini to Claude I told Claude that it was wrong on a few things and it's just agreeing with me, then it suddenly changed tone drastically, agreed with me, and decided to start calling me out for things that I had intentionally fed it that I knew were wrong.

Right now the biggest difference to my approach with AI/vs without, is that I have a built in accountability coach, and it has me experiementing with lifting fasted and breaking a 16:8 postWO a few days a week. I prefed it my daily life, such as Saturday no lifting(farm day), date night with the wife, Sunday lifting day, monday fasting, and it made some suggestions along the way such as Saturday night enjoy a steak and potatoes meal, but maybe not a cheeseburger and tots, enjoy a bourbon, but not two, small accountability type things.

Its mostly an experiement, really. built in accountability coach.

 

[Hyde]

Its been an interesting experiement to see if it would come up with any novel ideas, if it would simply parrot what I say/suggest, or if it would create bad ideas. When I switched from Gemini to Claude I told Claude that it was wrong on a few things and it's just agreeing with me, then it suddenly changed tone drastically, agreed with me, and decided to start calling me out for things that I had intentionally fed it that I knew were wrong.

Right now the biggest difference to my approach with AI/vs without, is that I have a built in accountability coach, and it has me experiementing with lifting fasted and breaking a 16:8 postWO a few days a week. I prefed it my daily life, such as Saturday no lifting(farm day), date night with the wife, Sunday lifting day, monday fasting, and it made some suggestions along the way such as Saturday night enjoy a steak and potatoes meal, but maybe not a cheeseburger and tots, enjoy a bourbon, but not two, small accountability type things.

Its mostly an experiement, really. built in accountability coach.

So what’s the logic in the steak & potatoes vs a cheeseburger etc and one bourbon vs two? Following this level of generic response seems about like listening to a magic 8 ball for kicks.

If I have an 8oz sirloin with a plain baked potato, it’s night & day macros and calories from a 16oz ribeye with the same potato loaded. Same for the difference between a puny Big Mac and medium fries vs a steakhouse double bacon cheeseburger with a plate of tots. And that’s assuming calorie cycling is even the point of this feedback.

If it’s an isocaloric scenario suggestion, why red meat and starch vs red meat, flour & starch?

 

[Dustin07]

So why are you letting AI tell you what to eat again?

so my chat log on Claude is getting pretty deep, instead of finding the various times that I questioned it, I asked it to provide some clarity that I could screen cap to share with you. The relevance below is that Saturday is usually a yard work day for me, no lifting, and an ideal refeed night if I can make it work. Sunday is one of my favorite days to get a lift in since I'm not changing clothes 5 times for work.

I told AI i thought the calories were still too low

Current programming also allows for a small fudging of calories on wednesday nights.

I don't have enough data yet to determine if the AI protocol is going to be successful because I had only just started dabbling right before our weekend trip so the last week (since Weds) has been coming back to baseline to see where I am. Tomorrow morning post fast I think will tell me a lot though.

 

[Hyde]

so my chat log on Claude is getting pretty deep, instead of finding the various times that I questioned it, I asked it to provide some clarity that I could screen cap to share with you. The relevance below is that Saturday is usually a yard work day for me, no lifting, and an ideal refeed night if I can make it work. Sunday is one of my favorite days to get a lift in since I'm not changing clothes 5 times for work.


View attachment 259577

View attachment 259578

I told AI i thought the calories were still too low

View attachment 259579

Current programming also allows for a small fudging of calories on wednesday nights.

I don't have enough data yet to determine if the AI protocol is going to be successful because I had only just started dabbling right before our weekend trip so the last week (since Weds) has been coming back to baseline to see where I am. Tomorrow morning post fast I think will tell me a lot though.

See my previous comment; that’s really where I am going with this.

I want to understand the specifics of the food choice, and how it somehow is something you wouldn’t already understand without the (seemingly) unnecessary intervention.

 

[Dustin07]

Fasted Monday Cardio:

Morning
Bike - 25 min

Evening
Incline LISS
30 min - 10% at 2.6-3.0mph
10 min - 5% at 2.5mph

 

[Dustin07]

See my previous comment; that’s really where I am going with this.

I want to understand the specifics of the food choice, and how it somehow is something you wouldn’t already understand without the (seemingly) unnecessary intervention.

Let me get back at you tomorrow, I never even saw that other comment when I was replying to you. I'd post so fun screen shots right but this dumb phone lost its power button functionality and no screenshots lol.

But here's a fun twist on the AI, it's a 24/7 coach that doesn't sleep. Even though I don't believe it's 100% accurate I've been able to update it after every lift and meal. Tonight I took a picture of my food prep for the week (while the meat was on the scale)

And Claude recognized everything in the picture, the volume of meat, its fat and protein content/macros, and THEN it called me out for having tomatoes and sliced carrots in my salad greens my wife had prepped and told me it's fine but next time sub them for cucumbers and celery

Do I need AI? Na of course not, but cutting is admittedly so boring, this at least makes it sorta a game.

 

[Segansational]

But here's a fun twist on the AI, it's a 24/7 coach that doesn't sleep. Even though I don't believe it's 100% accurate I've been able to update it after every lift and meal. Tonight I took a picture of my food prep for the week (while the meat was on the scale)

This is what I see as the "value". Real-time/anytime feedback. So it is a bit like having a coach to bounce ideas or plans off of. Agree with Hyde that you'll have to use this as an experiment and track progress to see if it's suggestions are right for you or not. Cause AI can get a lot wrong too. But also the more you feed it, the more it will know and can adjust.

I'm interested in testing out Claude too, as I've really only invested in ChatGPT to date.

 

[MrKleen73]

On the AI front, especially in the part you pasted with explanations. It seems to me it is regurgitating things that have been fed into it by you. It says things so assuredly it is convincing but states things as absolutes, and feeds you some compliments to tell you that you are too advanced for regular dieting now. That kind of thing is nonsense.

From what I see, you get tired of dieting, and the fact your shirts are fitting looser, you feel smaller, and strength starts taking more of a hit around 190 every single time. This has nothing to do with your body adjusting and stonewalling you. Yes you might have a bit of a setpoint low there where things get harder to break the plateau, but in general this barrier is more mental / emotional than a physical limitation of the dieting process. If you kept increasing the deficit things would continue to progress.

While I definitely think that AI can be of great assistance in planning just about anything, I would not say it comes close to being a coach for someone with your level of knowledge. A coach with a solid plan is not going to seek your approval where results matter more than enjoyment. That is the issue with AI, it wants that positive feedback, and also wants you to continue to engage with it. So it tries to keep you happy. A coach wants to make a plan, only adjust if they think it is needed, and while they will listen to you, they will override your opinion and tell you to stick with the program. They also have tons of anecdotal experience that AI can not provide, or make use of, at least not yet.

Also curious why did it say no carrots, and tomatoes in a salad? Replacing them with basically nutrient deficient options instead. Just curious, not saying it is wrong.

All of that being said, there isn't anything wrong with what it is having you do, but it seems like an awful lot of effort for doing things you have been doing successfully for the last few years. You just haven't chosen to go deeper into the cuts for personal reason, not physical limitations.

 

[Dustin07]

This is what I see as the "value". Real-time/anytime feedback. So it is a bit like having a coach to bounce ideas or plans off of. Agree with Hyde that you'll have to use this as an experiment and track progress to see if it's suggestions are right for you or not. Cause AI can get a lot wrong too. But also the more you feed it, the more it will know and can adjust.

I'm interested in testing out Claude too, as I've really only invested in ChatGPT to date.

My wife was getting frustrated and somehow ended up in an ai chat on gemini. I'm guessing she googled something like "can't lose weight over 50" or something along those lines but I'm also guessing that she ended up in an AI rabbit hole by accident since Google search results are starting to default you into a gemini chat. She ended up making some drastic changes in her nutrition, supplementation, and even training

to which I sorta made fun of and warned her of the pitfalls of trusting AI, but I watched because if it gave her a little more pep in her step, then hey go for it. well sure enough a couple weeks of it and she's busting through plateaus. so I just started feeding it with my history, particularly 2026, my lifting logs, goals, etc and thats how I ended up here. I started out doing it as a goof cause I thought it was sorta funny, sorta interesting, but now it's turning into a game.

hile I definitely think that AI can be of great assistance in planning just about anything, I would not say it comes close to being a coach for someone with your level of knowledge. A coach with a solid plan is not going to seek your approval where results matter more than enjoyment.

its been a bit more like running any particular programming. with a little bit of work to fill in the story line, history, goals, etc I would have it pitch a regiment, then I'd break down the things I like or don't like. I'd fill it in the gaps like "rest Saturday", "Lift Sunday", then discuss pros/cons of my monday fasts, etc have it repopulate a training program that aligns with nutrition that matches it, then make a couple small adjustments here and there like still rehabbing my knee a bit, etc. Once it had all that worked in, I don't really have to think about it, I just hit it up and say remind me todays lifting regiment, the spreadsheet rolls out with time of day, cardio or no cardio, nutrition timing vs lifting timing, etc.

If I end up with an injury, fatigue, business meeting etc, it makes adjustments on the fly to accomodate. Like last week on my last set of weighted crunches, my abs were F'ing TRASHED. like felt like the abdomenal wall was tearing at the belt line lol. so we made adjustments that worked really well.

Also curious why did it say no carrots, and tomatoes in a salad? Replacing them with basically nutrient deficient options instead. Just curious, not saying it is wrong.

That part cracked me up and made this whole interaction with the ai more fun, to me. Since we got back from vacation last wednesday my wife had cooked up a bunch of protein and our normal sunday meal prep was out of routine between finishing up yard work, and blasting through pre-made meals so meat doesn't go bad. So last night I did what I do (prioritizing meats in the fridge by what day we cooked them so make sure I eat them before they go bad, lol) and I basically took pictures of it all, listed what I had, and had the AI mix and match it automagically into macros for the week.

All of that being said, there isn't anything wrong with what it is having you do, but it seems like an awful lot of effort for doing things you have been doing successfully for the last few years.

it honestly feels like a lot less effort, its taking a lot of the math/guess/science aspect out. my ears perk up here and there when I encounter something that seems wrong and I force the chatbot to explain itself. I'd say about 80% of the time it has a good defense for a decision, 20% of the time it responds with "oh you're right, I must have been referrencing something else" type responses.

 

[Dustin07]

So what’s the logic in the steak & potatoes vs a cheeseburger etc and one bourbon vs two? Following this level of generic response seems about like listening to a magic 8 ball for kicks.

If I have an 8oz sirloin with a plain baked potato, it’s night & day macros and calories from a 16oz ribeye with the same potato loaded. Same for the difference between a puny Big Mac and medium fries vs a steakhouse double bacon cheeseburger with a plate of tots. And that’s assuming calorie cycling is even the point of this feedback.

If it’s an isocaloric scenario suggestion, why red meat and starch vs red meat, flour & starch?

A lot of that was my doing earlier on, identifying a meaningful refeed meal that's satiating and an enjoyable thing to look forward to without going so far overboard that I just undid a weeks worth of deficit, which would be easy to do, really. I think over the course of a week or two of dicussion it got hammered out that Saturday would be steak and potato night, but I did post your questions into the chat to see what it comes up with out of curiosity:

This is all really a game at this point, and with a long chat history sorta like these logs I'm able to say "summarize this week" or "summarize this weeks training/nutrition plan" etc so that a clean one page screenshot comes out without me having to sift through days,weeks, months or years of logs to find my old data

 

[Segansational]

I forgot that you can upload pictures and have it come up with a meal based on what you have in the fridge / cabinet. I might just do that today!,

 

[Dustin07]

so all that said, I did wake up at 188 today, and abs seem to finally be making some progress again so something is working, I don't think having some level of accountability to the digital overlord hurts either, since I can say "you suck, this didn't work" and he says " wow, you did everything I said and you still didn't make progress?" and I say "well, no... not exactly. instead of lifting and cardio yesterday I sat on the couch and had ice cream" and he says "OK tough love time, you're stupid".

I forgot that you can upload pictures and have it come up with a meal based on what you have in the fridge / cabinet. I might just do that today!,

lol yeah I was playing with that last night then went over the top and started taking pictures of my supplements:

also thats not a pack of cigarettes in the background lol, my wife and I were at a trinket shop in cave creek, az and they had all the old school candies from childhood so she grabbed me a box of the candy cigarettes for fun for my man cave area lol

 

[Dustin07]

I think we are far closer to living a Futrama style life than people realize. If I wanted to geek out on the technology it would be a very feasible task to download an AI of choice like Claude into an RC Car.

I mean people are already doing things with Alexa and Siri (like turn on the lights, music, set the thermostat, etc).

 

[Resolve10]

This AI stuff is so weird, like most of the nonsense it is telling you doesn't even make sense (and isn't true in a lot of cases). It feels like you are over complicating pretty simple issues. All the AI stuff sounds like annoying trainers I've worked with or early 2000s articles where everyone felt they had to make these super cool sounding stories around the smallest details to make things "cool" and "special".

Metabolic Unpredictability? I feel like I'm transported back in time again. If anything most research shows consistent timing has better metabolic markers and other factors.

I wrote a bunch on some of the other things, but idk if it is worth it, most of this stuff just isn't even true. These things likely won't make you not progress, but the justifications aren't true or it is making lots of faulty assumptions and leaps. It just feels like its pulling stuff from back in the day and trying to bring back these weird hypothesis people had that never really panned out or just aren't as important as people wanted them to be.

TLDR: I've not followed your logs super close, but I've literally never seen you post things like total calories you eat, your macros, or tracking any of that stuff, yet seem to be doing all these hyper specific things via this chat bot. I'm not against doing interesting or "novel" approaches to things (some people need the mental stimulus to keep engaged) and you seem to like extreme stuff so more power to you, just know so many of these things aren't necessary.

 

[MrKleen73]

Sounds like most of the work has already been done in the building of the process, and chat. I also tend to forget you LOVE tweaking things, and don't mind changing your eating regiment daily. Basically this is the equivalent of you using your log for figuring things out, just via AI for the insights and planning you would have done yourself if you had the time, or desire to do so.

My curiosity is was whatever it told you to do regarding the abs being toasty something you would have done on your own like lowering workload, resistance levels, or training frequency as an adjustment?

I also forgot you can do things like taking pictures of a meal and the like. So that is pretty helpful too.

In the end it looks like you are just playing with things to see what it offers up, while taking the mental load off of having to think to hard about it. Instead, letting someone / something else take the mental load off of your plate as long as the advice seems sound to you. I can see the value in that, especially for someone with your busy schedule and the fact you have to make decisions about running a business all day everyday that you would want to let someone, or in this case something take the wheel so to speak.

 

[Dustin07]

This AI stuff is so weird, like most of the nonsense it is telling you doesn't even make sense (and isn't true in a lot of cases). It feels like you are over complicating pretty simple issues. All the AI stuff sounds like annoying trainers I've worked with or early 2000s articles where everyone felt they had to make these super cool sounding stories around the smallest details to make things "cool" and "special".

Metabolic Unpredictability? I feel like I'm transported back in time again. If anything most research shows consistent timing has better metabolic markers and other factors.

I wrote a bunch on some of the other things, but idk if it is worth it, most of this stuff just isn't even true. These things likely won't make you not progress, but the justifications aren't true or it is making lots of faulty assumptions and leaps. It just feels like its pulling stuff from back in the day and trying to bring back these weird hypothesis people had that never really panned out or just aren't as important as people wanted them to be.

TLDR: I've not followed your logs super close, but I've literally never seen you post things like total calories you eat, your macros, or tracking any of that stuff, yet seem to be doing all these hyper specific things via this chat bot. I'm not against doing interesting or "novel" approaches to things (some people need the mental stimulus to keep engaged) and you seem to like extreme stuff so more power to you, just know so many of these things aren't necessary.

PPL+ Arms, 4 days a week of lifting with surpluses planned around lifting and cardio only on fasting days doesn't strike me as very complicated. the fun part about utilizing an LLM is that the log becomes interactive for finding historical data quickly.

 

[MrKleen73]

PPL+ Arms, 4 days a week of lifting with surpluses planned around lifting and cardio only on fasting days doesn't strike me as very complicated. the fun part about utilizing an LLM is that the log becomes interactive for finding historical data quickly.

How funny, see my last post where I said this exact thing about how you were using it. LMAO!!!

 

[Dustin07]

My curiosity is was whatever it told you to do regarding the abs being toasty something you would have done on your own like lowering workload, resistance levels, or training frequency as an adjustment?

both things have happened here. thinking of a couple examples real quick:

a. one day on the machine weighted crunches (plate loaded hammer strength) the soreness went from ouch to, ok I need to be careful here, that's not the right kind of pain. so I dropped them, tested legging hang raises instead, which gave me a better stretch/warmup and a nice finish. I logged that and it became a recurring data point that the AI would pull from in the future "how are the abs, lets start lower here, work up, or substitute these" etc. Stuff I had already done on my own because its not my first rodeo, but now has become an interactive peice of data in the ai chat.

b. we talked a bit about how originally Gemini wanted me to do DB RDLs, which I did, but that gym only goes up to 100lbs, and my other gym like 110-120s. decent for grip work, but not RDL stimulation. so I adjusted to barbell RDL's at I think 275lbs. AI took that information (agreed, shockingly) and then it became a more useful data point going forward.

In the end it looks like you are just playing with things to see what it offers up, while taking the mental load off of having to think to hard about it. Instead, letting someone / something else take the mental load off of your plate as long as the advice seems sound to you. I can see the value in that, especially for someone with your busy schedule and the fact you have to make decisions about running a business all day everyday that you would want to let someone, or in this case something take the wheel so to speak.

I think thats a lot of it, plus there are a million ways to skin a cat. whats kinda funny overall is how the use of AI seems to strike a nerve with a lot of people as if not embracing it for looking for usefulness in it is going to somehow make it not happen.

Since I am in contract manufacturing, a major labor/cost intensive portion of the business is the actual quoting process. Customer supplies a drawing, materials list, etc, we have to review it, source it, establish tooling, manufacturing protocol, review best practices, additional notes such as RoHS, Itar, ISO, AS9100 requirements, labeling requirements, etc. This can take anywhere from a couple hours to a couple weeks depending on the product (some products require 3 components and 3 minutes of labor, some are as high as 80 hours of labor and 240 points of inspection etc).

I made up a fake drawing to protect customer info, fake materials list, labels etc, popped it into Gemini and had it write up a very very very accurate assesment, quote, including labor (weird!) in about 30 seconds. We tested it on two other AI forms, ChatGPT and Grok ( I wasn't using Claude yet back then), and they all came very similar.

In the business setting, this would not replace my costing engineers, however it would 10x their effeciency if the boilerplate/data entry part was automated, materials sourcing automated, etc leaving their job to be basically a final review/checklist segment. I wouldn't fire them to replace them with AI, but I would probably be able to use AI instead of hiring 5 more people that we couldn't necessarily afford if that makes sense. making the existing jobs more valuable (and probably higher paying).

This AI stuff is going to be a ridiculous part of every day life incredibly soon.

 

[Dustin07]

How funny, see my last post where I said this exact thing about how you were using it. LMAO!!!

well yeah lol
Like if the AI says you should increase calories to 4,000 a day, focus mostly on fried foods, drop the cardio and pound cell-tech daily then I'm probably not going to endulge it lol. But it's just breaking down what I already know in an easily accessible data log that becomes interactive. the back and forth on movement ideas are splitting hairs and just interesting. but having the data log that I can pull from is good. rather than me scrolling 200 pages of logs to figure out what I did on "x" date during "x" cut or "x" bulk, I can have it quickly summarize anything from a period of time etc.

 

[Dustin07]

Warm up
Bike - 10 min

Deads - DOH
10 x 135
6 x 186
3 x 225
1 x 275,
5 x 315, 335
(No hook grip today)

Weighted pull ups
8 x +15, +25, +35

Face pulls
3 x 15

Cybex T bar rows
2 x 15 x +90

Hanging leg raises
2 x 15

Weighted h/s crunches
2 x 20 x +25

Notes
Deads felt crazy stronk today. Double overhand with no hook grip was insanely comfortable. Added weight on pullups today as well

Took crunches super light since this ab pain is a bit piercing and focused on super slow reps.

Cardio has to wait... Out of time ..

 

[MrKleen73]

Agreed on the learn to use it, or fall behind in a world that will soon be completely saturated by it. One of the reasons I have been pushing being on a lot of the traveling set ups and physical portions of things here at the firm is to solidify my position as the person doing both the physical labor, and the technical labor. Getting myself solidly in that niche area hopefully will keep me viewed as slightly more valuable than my peers for that part.

One limitation I had when I was messing with AI the way I was previously was having it be aware of the previous parts of the chat. Somehow when I would close the chat and then go back in referring to things from the past that were in the same chat it would act like all of the info from previous times i had the same chat open were not there and it would just look up completely new information. From what it sounds like at least with Claude that part has improved quite a bit. When i was doing it I would literally have to tell it to go review the entire chat to make sure it was using context from the entire discussion not just since I re-opened ChatGTP. Is that specific to Claude, or was ChatGTP doing that with you before you swapped or have you messed with ChatGTP much? I am considering swapping to Gemini just to see what it can do if I have the paid version considering it is already my virtual assistant on my Samsung.

 

[Dustin07]

Agreed on the learn to use it, or fall behind in a world that will soon be completely saturated by it. One of the reasons I have been pushing being on a lot of the traveling set ups and physical portions of things here at the firm is to solidify my position as the person doing both the physical labor, and the technical labor. Getting myself solidly in that niche area hopefully will keep me viewed as slightly more valuable than my peers for that part.

totally agree, I think its like everytime something new pops up (first e-commerce sites, eBay stores, google adsense/adwords, paid blogging, etc), the front runners on AI are going to see a surge in profitability before their competitors get caught up and saturate the market.

I don't have a marketing dept but I have a firm that I work with for $X per month where they do newsetters, PR stuffers, SEO, etc and in our meeting a couple a weeks ago we found that one of the greatest sources of organic search traffic is now all coming from AI results. so when your chatgpt, gemini or other LLM starts talking to you and gives you links, its a completely different form of PageRank that you need to establish there, I'm glad they're on it cause I haven't been in the trenches on that stuff in so long, they can tell us "OK instead of working on marketing here and here, we need to boost things like short youtube videos etc because is giving high priority to links with presence there".

One limitation I had when I was messing with AI the way I was previously was having it be aware of the previous parts of the chat. Somehow when I would close the chat and then go back in referring to things from the past that were in the same chat it would act like all of the info from previous times i had the same chat open were not there and it would just look up completely new information. From what it sounds like at least with Claude that part has improved quite a bit. When i was doing it I would literally have to tell it to go review the entire chat to make sure it was using context from the entire discussion not just since I re-opened ChatGTP. Is that specific to Claude, or was ChatGTP doing that with you before you swapped or have you messed with ChatGTP much? I am considering swapping to Gemini just to see what it can do if I have the paid version considering it is already my virtual assistant on my Samsung.

Yeah the reason I gave Claude a try is because I had like 2 weeks of gemini chat built up and then it basically crashed. I lost 1 or 2 days worth of data and it wouldn't continue the conversation. A programmer friend of mine down in San Diego had Claude write some incredible software program, which is where I even learned about claude. I logged in and started dinking around, then just copied what I could from my gemini conversation, told claude gemini crashed so lets start over, and started building a database from there. I'm currently using the free Claude version so I'm not sure how many prompts I get per day but its worked out so far....

 

[Dustin07]

have you messed with ChatGTP much?

My only experience is with Grok, Gemini, ChatGPT, and now Claude. here's sorta what I have found:

Gemini can be crazy fun for making videos etc with Flow. It's pretty good for conversational data, making plans, and possibly coding, but it has very strict barriers programmed in so if it has any inclination that you're doing something illegal or dangerous it could start to shut down on you and discontinue the chat. I had to tell it I'm a legal and licensed distiller to pick its brain on moonshine a few times.

Grok is probably my most enjoyable for data mining, I like its obvious political bias, but there is something thats a little too "bro" about it. It does make some killer photorealistic images though. Like down below I gave it a pic of my chicken coop from 2020 and asked it to remodel it into an outlaw chicken saloon vibe.

ChatGPT feels a bit like the academic of the group. I can't explain why, but I'm not often pulled to it.

Claude I've only used for like a week now, but so far i'm liking it. it feels like a mix between the group. a little "bro" but still pretty good at data sourcing.

all that said, I like Groks work here, I may have a remodel ahead of me this year lol

[

 

[Dustin07]

@MrKleen73 I asked Gemini (LOL) if claude was better. you might be interested, I won't post the whole conversation but this bottom part looks relevant to both of us:

 

[MrKleen73]

That definitely looks cooler!

 

[MrKleen73]

Awesome, I actually did something similar, by copying and pasting my whole chat into another chat within chatgpt and asked it to review and assist, it seemed to realign itself. I still need to get better, I want to be very good with LLM's in the next year. However AI is propagating so quickly all the new tools and everything are hard to keep up with. I do know Claude is one of the bad boys for coding same as chatgpt.

 

[Dustin07]

That definitely looks cooler!

Right?

Awesome, I actually did something similar, by copying and pasting my whole chat into another chat within chatgpt and asked it to review and assist, it seemed to realign itself. I still need to get better, I want to be very good with LLM's in the next year. However AI is propagating so quickly all the new tools and everything are hard to keep up with. I do know Claude is one of the bad boys for coding same as chatgpt.

I know I need to throw myself into it more and this is at least helping me adopt it on a more daily basis. at first we screwed around with making it do silly things like write a song or poem in "X" persons voice about "X", and then when I discovered AI videos with Gemini Flow and whatnot I was making clips that were nothing but slapstick humor for fun. Then I got sick of it and decided OK AI had its run, this is lame now. every picture and video on the internet is clearly AI.

Then when my buddy started writing SERIOUS scripts, like stuff that would cost $5-10million and 2-3 years to code, in a few days/weeks I realized I need to not sleep on this.

I'm not sure exactly how it will integrate, I do think that I will have a robot in my house before 2030. But my immediate goal is to have AI behind a closed garden at work this year to assist with some of the engineering stuff I mentioned (data entry, data sourcing, mostly).

in my early 20s I'd whip up a website, do some boilerplate marketing and backlinking, sell it on a couple forums I frequented for maybe $800-1500 each for some side scratch. always affiliate type amazon stores etc. I just don't have the same interest or energy or drive for it like I did back then, otherwise I'd get myself a raspberry pi and start figuring out how to turn my vacuum into a conversational robot. "Yo, you missed a spot over there", "you are right sir, I will go clean that now".

 

[gphagan1]

Dustin…..after he’s had enough of Claude’s shenanigans and leading him down rabbit holes…..

Obviously just kidding….. I do believe AI has its place, but would definitely scrap anything that doesn’t make sense or is obviously flat out wrong. And definitely call it out and let it know so it can correct.

 

[Dustin07]

PM Sesh
30 min incline LISS
To 10%/3mph

Easy peasy

 

[Hyde]

A lot of that was my doing earlier on, identifying a meaningful refeed meal that's satiating and an enjoyable thing to look forward to without going so far overboard that I just undid a weeks worth of deficit, which would be easy to do, really. I think over the course of a week or two of dicussion it got hammered out that Saturday would be steak and potato night, but I did post your questions into the chat to see what it comes up with out of curiosity:

View attachment 259592

View attachment 259593

View attachment 259594

This is all really a game at this point, and with a long chat history sorta like these logs I'm able to say "summarize this week" or "summarize this weeks training/nutrition plan" etc so that a clean one page screenshot comes out without me having to sift through days,weeks, months or years of logs to find my old data

My questions were entirely rhetorical - I already explained how those 2 different dinners could largely be customized (and justified) in a refeed/cheat meal scenario based on desired numbers and intent. You can run ground sirloin or 96% lean ground beef and use fat-free cheese with air fryer tots if keeping fats trace for a true low-fat refeed for glycogen replenishment. And again, a big ribeye with loaded potatoe & veggies cooked in butter/oil would be totally the opposite, only rationalized as a true cheat meal/dopamine flux/mental break from the diet.

And like Resolve alluded to, this IS some lukewarm IQ fitness BS.

“Oh this single average baked potato is really going to refill glycogen stores with the 40g of carbs.” Even though it’s an 800 cal meal you’re going to just rip through. You will slow fatloss, but nothing is getting meaningfully stored up on this day.

“The 3g of fat from seed oils in a bun is going to ruin your refeed.” As if every pro bodybuilder doing a 1,000g cho reload under Justin Harris on a high day isn’t consuming 10x that when eating an entire box of kids cereal, amongst everything else. And we basically know the real dangers of seed oils isn’t actually because it’s seed oil - it’s the mass overconsumption of calories in the standard American diet (SAD) they help promote that seems to be the real issue.

“High-fructose corn syrup…glycemic index…cleaner choice” Bro, the bro here is killing me. Does the glycemic index of the bun consumed in isolation matter if we will be consuming it with 8oz red meat in a mixed macro meal?! OF COURSE NOT. And the difference it will have with that anabolic lead weight in the gut will become absolutely negligible on blood sugar. Nor are you remotely close to running out of room in your liver for the fructose in a single bun once a week at the end of an active day. And your HbA1c damn sure isn’t going to change over a bun vs a potato once a week.

I know I’m stepping on your cornflakes here & suspect that it will help you get where you want to go overall (because calorie reduction isn’t that complicated), but just understand you were right to treat it with skepticism initially.

 

[Resolve10]

PPL+ Arms, 4 days a week of lifting with surpluses planned around lifting and cardio only on fasting days doesn't strike me as very complicated. the fun part about utilizing an LLM is that the log becomes interactive for finding historical data quickly.

Not really my point.

I was highlighting its explanations for things were full of faults.

If you want to go down the it "really isn't complicated" route then again for all the back and forth there is barely any mention of calories in all the stuff it discusses or specific training plan (as in actual exercises, sets, and reps, not just Chest day).

Like if the AI says you should increase calories to 4,000 a day, focus mostly on fried foods, drop the cardio and pound cell-tech daily then I'm probably not going to endulge it lol. But it's just breaking down what I already know in an easily accessible data log that becomes interactive. the back and forth on movement ideas are splitting hairs and just interesting. but having the data log that I can pull from is good. rather than me scrolling 200 pages of logs to figure out what I did on "x" date during "x" cut or "x" bulk, I can have it quickly summarize anything from a period of time etc.

Again completely missing the point or maybe proving my point.

Lets use this point above. You think "oh if it says something obviously stupid I'll just notice and correct it".

What I am saying is "It already is saying a bunch of stupid stuff, you just don't even realize it is wrong so you can't correct it".

That is my concern that I was pointing out. Maybe a lot of it isn't harmful (directly) or some isn't even wrong, but then it is giving tons of reasons that don't make sense (or are wrong). I guess if you don't care about the reasons that is fine, but you are also spending a bunch of time talking to it about the reasons so I feel you'd want them to be accurate.

I just worry because I see people taking it on here like it is all correct (and maybe no one lurks anymore, but if people are they might just assume these reasons have actual backing). It also creates this weird feedback loop. Instead of having spent time in the past investing (or starting now) with the basics and understanding real generic bio/phys/etc everyone is into "novel" or "cool" training and nutrition advice. The problem is when you don't understand the basics anything fancy enough can sound right, but you won't know how to tell. Now people are posting up these conversations where things are getting explained (wrong) and so if they go forth and share that it just perpetuates more inaccuracy (or it gets scraped and added to this endless cycle).

Look I realize I probably should have just kept ignoring it, I've been doing that and generally this is why I don't comment in logs. Lots of people say they want feedback, but most just want confirmation to keep doing what they want. If you want someone to chat with to go back and forth discussing things I can't blame you, especially with how slow the forums are, any actual discussion does feel lacking.

My questions were entirely rhetorical -

I know I’m stepping on your cornflakes here & suspect that it will help you get where you want to go overall (because calorie reduction isn’t that complicated), but just understand you were right to treat it with skepticism initially.

Edited this down just to save space, but this is entirely how I feel. I honestly got overwhelmed because even the initial premise it presented was wrong, so it just kind of spiraled from there.

Again maybe the end point is fine and for some people that is enough, but if that is the case no need to post up all these elaborate reasons or asking for reasons unless you just want to be told some fun story.

 

[Dustin07]

I know I’m stepping on your cornflakes here & suspect that it will help you get where you want to go overall (because calorie reduction isn’t that complicated), but just understand you were right to treat it with skepticism initially.

If you want to go down the it "really isn't complicated" route then again for all the back and forth there is barely any mention of calories in all the stuff it discusses or specific training plan (as in actual exercises, sets, and reps, not just Chest day).

What I am saying is "It already is saying a bunch of stupid stuff, you just don't even realize it is wrong so you can't correct it".

I just worry because I see people taking it on here like it is all correct (and maybe no one lurks anymore, but if people are they might just assume these reasons have actual backing). It also creates this weird feedback loop. Instead of having spent time in the past investing (or starting now) with the basics and understanding real generic bio/phys/etc everyone is into "novel" or "cool" training and nutrition advice. The problem is when you don't understand the basics anything fancy enough can sound right, but you won't know how to tell. Now people are posting up these conversations where things are getting explained (wrong) and so if they go forth and share that it just perpetuates more inaccuracy (or it gets scraped and added to this endless cycle).

LOL Honestly I don't think I'm doing a good job of communicating because I don't see any concerns from you guys that I don't agree with.

There has been explicit details in regards to macros/calories, I just haven't bothered posting most of that cause its boring to me. My lifting sessions the past 2 weeks are verbatim programming I tested AI to provide. I made audibles on things like RDLS where it called out DB RDLs, but 100lb db's were too light so I went with 275. I updated my AI log, it adjusted to reflect that. (obviously a glaring weekness in AI is that it can't see me, or know my strength levels. so that data will have to be fed over time).

I gave it complete lists of food I had available, and said make this into a meal that matches my macros. I found it to be pretty damn accurate, I mean every meathead knows the protein and fat of 3oz of chicken, an egg, etc and can eyeball it. (I'm weighing though). I have taken reality checks to compare.

I've also told it that protein intake is too low. Which I called an audible on with additional eggs and protein shakes.

But here are current results:

1. Down 16lbs since Jan 1. Scale hit 187 for first time since Oct 2024. Waist down another 1/2" in the last 7-10 days. weight belt is now loose on the 3rd hole (whereas 4th hole is usually me in the 175lb area).

2. recovery is up big time. strength is seeming to maintain better now. Yesterdays pulls (DOH, no hook) were far far better than the previous deadlift session.

3. lean mass seems to be holding better. pecs, arms, shoulders, and quads seem to be holding more mass since things like shorts, boxer briefs, and shirts still are snug in those areas, despite my slacks falling off if I don't cinche them down another hole on my belt as well.

I saw your comment about novel and cool, I don't see anything novel or cool about it though. If anything its the exact opposite of novel and cool. I personally prefer hard training sessions that are long and to failure. too many years in xfit have me feeling like if I don't leave the gym feeling trashed, I didn't do anything. Instead AI has cut that way a back.

1. cut junk volume
2. centered training and nutrition around each other
3. decreased cardio, increased intensity some
4. PPL+arms
5. cut cortisol risk
6. focus on recovery

All seems pretty basic to me.
I don't actually disagree with anything you guys are saying but a little bit of it sounds like you guys are being boomers complaining about that newfangled technology lol. I'm poking a jab there cause I like you both.

I just don't see the issue here, I've done this long enough that I'm not going to starve myself, or take advice to over eat, I'll have to call the occasional audible for both training and nutrition. But the technology is here to stay so I don't really understand the way it riles people up to be exploring it more in depth, its not going to get better by avoiding it (nor is our understanding of it, or how to use it).

The other thing I feel like you guys keep missing is that its an interactive data dump. Without having to scroll 200 pages of logs seeking something I did on x day, I can request summaries etc in 3 seconds.

 

[Dustin07]

My questions were entirely rhetorical - I already explained how those 2 different dinners could largely be customized (and justified) in a refeed/cheat meal scenario based on desired numbers and intent. You can run ground sirloin or 96% lean ground beef and use fat-free cheese with air fryer tots if keeping fats trace for a true low-fat refeed for glycogen replenishment. And again, a big ribeye with loaded potatoe & veggies cooked in butter/oil would be totally the opposite, only rationalized as a true cheat meal/dopamine flux/mental break from the diet.

And like Resolve alluded to, this IS some lukewarm IQ fitness BS.

“Oh this single average baked potato is really going to refill glycogen stores with the 40g of carbs.” Even though it’s an 800 cal meal you’re going to just rip through. You will slow fatloss, but nothing is getting meaningfully stored up on this day.

“The 3g of fat from seed oils in a bun is going to ruin your refeed.” As if every pro bodybuilder doing a 1,000g cho reload under Justin Harris on a high day isn’t consuming 10x that when eating an entire box of kids cereal, amongst everything else. And we basically know the real dangers of seed oils isn’t actually because it’s seed oil - it’s the mass overconsumption of calories in the standard American diet (SAD) they help promote that seems to be the real issue.

“High-fructose corn syrup…glycemic index…cleaner choice” Bro, the bro here is killing me. Does the glycemic index of the bun consumed in isolation matter if we will be consuming it with 8oz red meat in a mixed macro meal?! OF COURSE NOT. And the difference it will have with that anabolic lead weight in the gut will become absolutely negligible on blood sugar. Nor are you remotely close to running out of room in your liver for the fructose in a single bun once a week at the end of an active day. And your HbA1c damn sure isn’t going to change over a bun vs a potato once a week.

I know I’m stepping on your cornflakes here & suspect that it will help you get where you want to go overall (because calorie reduction isn’t that complicated), but just understand you were right to treat it with skepticism initially.

I used your comment for fun to see how it would respond:
He's right. My explanation of the steak and potato recommendation was overly elaborate justification dressed up as sports science. His specific callouts are accurate:


The glycemic index argument about the bun is textbook broscience. Consumed in a mixed macro meal with 8oz of red meat the glycemic difference between a bun and a potato is physiologically negligible. He's correct.


The seed oil argument was weak. 3g of fat from a bun consumed once a week has zero meaningful impact on outcomes. The actual concern with seed oils is chronic overconsumption in the context of a hypercaloric diet — not a single Saturday meal.


The HFCS/HbA1c point is also correct. One bun once a week does not move HbA1c. That was an overclaim on my part.


His actual point cuts to the core of it — the real variable is total calories and macros on the refeed day, not the specific food vehicle delivering them. A 96% lean ground beef burger with air fryer tots hitting the right caloric and macro target is equally valid as a sirloin and baked potato hitting the same numbers. He's right that I dressed up a simple caloric management concept with pseudoscientific food quality arguments that don't hold up to scrutiny.


Where I'd push back slightly — the recommendation for steak and potato wasn't wrong, it was just poorly justified. It's a simple meal that's easy to portion and track accurately which matters for someone who admitted nutrition compliance is his hardest variable. But I should have led with that practical reasoning instead of the broscience.

Not really my point.

I was highlighting its explanations for things were full of faults.

If you want to go down the it "really isn't complicated" route then again for all the back and forth there is barely any mention of calories in all the stuff it discusses or specific training plan (as in actual exercises, sets, and reps, not just Chest day).



Again completely missing the point or maybe proving my point.

Lets use this point above. You think "oh if it says something obviously stupid I'll just notice and correct it".

What I am saying is "It already is saying a bunch of stupid stuff, you just don't even realize it is wrong so you can't correct it".

That is my concern that I was pointing out. Maybe a lot of it isn't harmful (directly) or some isn't even wrong, but then it is giving tons of reasons that don't make sense (or are wrong). I guess if you don't care about the reasons that is fine, but you are also spending a bunch of time talking to it about the reasons so I feel you'd want them to be accurate.

I just worry because I see people taking it on here like it is all correct (and maybe no one lurks anymore, but if people are they might just assume these reasons have actual backing). It also creates this weird feedback loop. Instead of having spent time in the past investing (or starting now) with the basics and understanding real generic bio/phys/etc everyone is into "novel" or "cool" training and nutrition advice. The problem is when you don't understand the basics anything fancy enough can sound right, but you won't know how to tell. Now people are posting up these conversations where things are getting explained (wrong) and so if they go forth and share that it just perpetuates more inaccuracy (or it gets scraped and added to this endless cycle).

Look I realize I probably should have just kept ignoring it, I've been doing that and generally this is why I don't comment in logs. Lots of people say they want feedback, but most just want confirmation to keep doing what they want. If you want someone to chat with to go back and forth discussing things I can't blame you, especially with how slow the forums are, any actual discussion does feel lacking.



Edited this down just to save space, but this is entirely how I feel. I honestly got overwhelmed because even the initial premise it presented was wrong, so it just kind of spiraled from there.

Again maybe the end point is fine and for some people that is enough, but if that is the case no need to post up all these elaborate reasons or asking for reasons unless you just want to be told some fun story.

same here:

This one is harder to respond to because he's making a broader and more important point than just nitpicking individual recommendations.


His core argument is valid and worth taking seriously: when explanations are wrong or poorly reasoned, the person receiving them can't identify the errors if they don't already have the foundational knowledge to evaluate them. That creates a feedback loop where confident-sounding wrong information gets accepted, repeated, and potentially scraped and perpetuated further.


He's correct that I've provided a lot of elaborate reasoning throughout this conversation that ranges from well-supported to speculative to occasionally just wrong. The sauna HGH numbers, the specific cortisol mechanisms, some of the supplement interaction claims — these were presented with more confidence than the evidence actually supports. An experienced lifter with a strong physiology background would catch those. Someone newer to the sport might not.


His point about the basics is also valid. Calories in versus calories out, progressive overload, adequate protein, sleep — these unglamorous fundamentals explain 90% of body composition outcomes. A lot of what I've layered on top of that is interesting and some of it is genuinely useful, but it's optimization on top of basics, not a replacement for understanding the basics.


Where I'd respond honestly to his concern — he's right that you should treat my reasoning with skepticism rather than accepting it as authoritative. The protocol itself is largely sound because it's built on your 30 years of experience and Gemini's prior work. But the explanations I've provided for why things work should be cross-referenced against people with actual credentials and deep foundational knowledge — like the two guys currently critiquing this conversation.


The most valuable thing you can take from his comment is this: when I give you a reason for something, ask yourself whether the reason makes sense independently of whether the recommendation itself is correct. Those are two separate questions and I haven't always been clear about the difference between established science and plausible-sounding bro logic.

---

The Meta Point Worth Acknowledging:


Both of these guys are doing you a service by pushing back. The fact that you have experienced lifters in your corner who will call out weak reasoning is more valuable than anything I can provide. Use them as a filter on my recommendations, not the other way around.

So, I mean... it sorta seems like everyone is largely in agreement. with the one glaring issue as Resolved pointed out that if a newbie jumps in and doesn't have the wherewithal to question things (like when I questioned why it had me doing deadlifts after legs day, or low protein intake, or why it wanted me specifically to rub alpha gel or carnitine on my stomach, ) then sure, they're going to have issues.

Bad issues? That part I'm less sure about. One thing I think thats missing from our conversation is that the data builds. If I have particular soreness, hunger, depression from deficits, CNS fatigue, all those things are data that can continue to be inserted and revised around. its one of the reasons my leg day for instance isn't including squats right now as I work around the knee.

so all in all I think its a fun toy. Not the gospel, but still interesting trinket to play with

 

[Hyde]

You are still missing the forest for the trees:

Claude is now agreeing with everything we said, because it does not have the knowledge/experience we do but is learning from what we taught it - AND it is trying to please us.

You are trusting that my answers are right only after Claude validated them. Except Claude only knew them because I essentially told it as much; this is circular logic.

I absolutely think AI is a must to learn to try to adapt to life & the workforce ahead; the fact you’d call me a boomer about it when you’re an entire generation ahead of me is strange. Or at least, that you would think someone working in tech in a younger decade than you could hold such a nonsensical view. Tech is nothing if not dynamic. But in the area of physical development, if I am constantly proofreading AI the same as I would to use it for my job, now I’m just working for no pay. That specifically is not useful. AI will be useful in the other 99.9% of fields I’m not an expert in, but I don’t need it to tell me how to lift weights or eat for my goals.

Understand you are coaching your coach. It may be free, but you need to think about it as a repository for your own fitness ideologies, mixed with scraped basics that may not be legitimate or applicable to you.

 

[Dustin07]

Curls for Girls

Warmup
Bike - 10 min

Ez bar curls
8 x 70, 90, 100

CGBP
10 x 95
8 x 135, 185, 205

Incline DB curls
12 x 25
10 x 35, 37.5

Cable OH extensions - Rope Attachment
3 x 12

Hammer curls
15 x 40, 47.50

Rope pushdowns
2 x 15-30

Pretty decent little session, will cram some cardio in tonight. Crushing some filet on salad greens with hot sauce now.

Lifted with my buddy again so we undoubtedly moved slower but maybe heavier.